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Japanese aircraft carrier Kaga is part of the Tosa class battleships series, a featured topic. It is also part of the Battleships of Japan series, a featured topic. These are identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve them, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I find it somewhat hard to believe that when Kaga was initially converted to an aircraft carrier, that it maintained barbettes for its original 16" gun turrets. I've never seen that claim anywhere before. Furthermore, this drawing of Kaga's armor scheme does not show any barbettes for the original armament.
The coordinates need the following fixes: The map seems to point out a location at 0E, 30S ... ?
Popoi ( talk) 23:48, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of coordinates, the position of the supposed wreckage doesn't make much sense when compared with the position at which the ship sank. The Nauticos analysis (which isn't at the link specified in the references section any more, but can be found fairly easily from there) speculates that the wreckage they think is from Kaga must have come off the ship before she sank, and fair enough; but even taking that into account, the spacing stretches credibility. Those two locations are 280 miles apart! Even if, as Nauticos say, "the wreckage may be as far as five and half hours (at whatever drifting speed was prevalent) from the main wreck itself," that presumes that the prevalent drifting speed was FIFTY MILES PER HOUR, which doesn't strike me as terribly likely.
Regardless, even as much of an element of uncertainty as Nauticos themselves allow for isn't mentioned in the article at all. The "wreck survey" section is worded as though there is no doubt at all as to the wreckage's identification. Zgryphon ( talk) 23:00, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
I saw this was recently passed. It's a very nice little article; good work! I think that if it's to be considered a GA, it should have it's WP:LEAD expanded to cover the whole article, and in more detail. Probably 2 big, or 3 medium paragraphs worth. - Peregrine Fisher ( talk) ( contribs) 03:10, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
I have some more photos of this ship that I'll try to get uploaded to Commons this week, including one showing the carrier operating during the China Incident. Cla68 ( talk) 13:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
The article is getting close. I have a few other issues I want to take care of, including:
I've ordered Peattie and Parshall & Tully from Amazon; hopefully they'll arrive before the FAC goes live. I'm not sure whether it's a trend, but lately we've had a whole lot of people making requests and giving their two cents in ship FACs; I want to be ready in case there's a lot to deal with. Cla68 is a great writer so I doubt this article needs more copyediting than the stuff I did at ACR, but if you guys have questions or want me to go through it again, please give me a shout. - Dank ( push to talk) 18:31, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
Jiro Horikoshi was the chief designer and was present during many of the prototype's tests. In his history of the Zero, published in Japan in 1970 and in English translation in 1980, he makes no mention of carrier flight tests. He states however that in May 1940 he was informed the navy would send the prototype to China about the middle of July, even though it had not yet been fully tested. "Operational tests, based on actual combat experiences, were continued by the Navy pilots under Lietenant Shimokawa, his objective being to advance to the front lines during July." JH "learned through the Navy bulletin that some Prototype 12s had finally been sent to China in July after the Navy was reasonably sure the airplane would be usable for actual combat operations." The Navy officially accepted the fighter at the end of July 1940. Aside from the difference in months (June vice July), this is consistent with the information above (on service in China), but no mention is made of carrier trials. Eagles of Mitsubishi: The Story of the Zero Fighter, pp. 93–95.
In his 1956 book Zero! JH mentions what appears to be the first combat missions in China, on August 19 and 20, 1940. The first actual combat was in September. Again, no mention is made in this book of carrier qualification trials. Kablammo ( talk) 01:09, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
The article is categorized within Unique aircraft carriers, yet it has the Tosa-class battleship template. Could someone clarify? Brandmeister talk 17:47, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
I know that in naval jargon and some common parlance it is okay to give ships, cars, and other objects the personal pronoun, but is that appropriate in an encyclopedia? My opinion is that it's not, but I'm interested in what others think. — Dr.queso ( talk • contribs) 19:34, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
When I say "reliable sources" I mean the sources used to create articles about ships. When I limit this to English ones, I only do so to show that "she" is perfectly acceptable in English (not to limit the sources used to English). Can you provide evidence that "many readers object"? Additionally, I have answered your question on my talk page with a quick sample of reliable sources which use "she" for ships. ( Hohum @) 16:33, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Dr.queso = as the proud owner of a user account with less than a week's editing history, you might find youself better received if you didn't just burst in herer telling everyone else that they are wrong. This subject has been debated and put to bed a long time ago. Until and unless you acheive a consensus to change the convention as it has already been explained to you in this discussion you are just wasting everyone's time here. You would be well advised to spend a lot more time learning how things are done here on Wikipedia than by apparently setting yourself up as some sort of ultimate authority on a given subject, ignoring what everyone else is telling you and not understanding that Wikipedia works by consensus. You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. - Nick Thorne talk 17:01, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
The article currently states:
Embarrassing really. A supposedly top article and its not even barely right! William Forbes-Sempill, 19th Lord Sempill, a British aviation expert first went to Japan in 1920 as part of a trade mission was sent there on the orders of the British government to help the Imperial Navy build aircraft carriers and train its naval aviators. Where is the source for the above statement, I don't see one? And in a supposedly good article too. Sempill was in Japan two years before the boat was even launched. He then became a Japanese agent, who for money, on his return to UK passed on secret information regarding British technical achievements to the Japanese in his role as a pioneering aeronautical expert. It is of little wonder that the Japanese, in less than seven years, had a carrier fleet to rival the UKs and USAs.
It's all there in the National Archives. Pity it is not here though. Just irks me that these articles are promoted as "good" when many just barely get close! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.142.55 ( talk)
Hi, I have tagged what I deem to be excessive detail. In an article about an aircraft carrier, knowing the names of individual pilots and also having squadron photographs of them is excessive. I think it is enough that the type of "enemy" dive bombers (from the carrier's POV) used and the "enemy" units involved in the sinking is enough. If anyone is interested in the names of individual pilots or the exact names of the US carriers involved in the sinking, they can click the links to the units or the article about the Battle of Midway. When I read this article about a Japanese aircraft carrier, at times I felt it to be an article about US dive bomber squadrons and I expect it to be centered on its subject. AadaamS ( talk) 20:34, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello,
Wouldn't you think this article ought to mention the Kaga aircraft carrier has been impersonated into an anime girl in the Japanese game Kantai Collection ? As the game is WILDLY popular in Japan, I feel this would deserve a mention in the main article. Well, just mentioning :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.142.190.50 ( talk) 00:10, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
{{geodata-check}}
The following coordinate fixes are needed for location of IJN Kaga.
The coordinates listed are 28°38′34″N 176°29′16″W That location is NE of Midway Island. Kaga was sunk (scuttled by IJN) NW of Midway. I believe the 'West' in the Coordinates should be 'East'.
— 23.116.5.207 ( talk) 21:57, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
I am surprised that this article features a translation of the name Kaga, because Kaga does not in fact mean anything. As the disambiguation page makes clear, Kaga is the name of a province of Japan, and applying this to the ship reflects the Japanese Navy's practice when she was named of naming their capital ships for provinces. It is exactly analogous to the USN's practice of naming capitals for states of the USA.
Japanese carriers were ordinarily named after mythical or proverbial flying creatures, but this rule was followed only if they were purpose-built ab initio as such. Thus Hosho of 1922 was named after the phoenix but Akagi and Kaga were laid down and named as gun-armed line of battle vessels, keeping those names when repurposed as carriers.
To say that Kaga means "Increased joy" is thus misleading. While the name of the carrier Taiho does indeed mean "Great Phoenix", it was meant to. Kaga is just a place name and to say it means anything is inaccurate; that it does is just a coincidence. By analogy, it is as though a Japanese Wikipedia article discussing the US battleship Washington were to claim that its name translates as "the laundering of a ton", or that the USS New Jersey means "man's unworn upper body garment".
I propose that this be removed from the article. Tirailleur ( talk) 10:53, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
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the statement
The two twin turrets on the middle flight deck were removed and four new 20 cm/50 3rd Year Type No. 1 guns in casemates were added forward.
suggests an addition at bow (at least for an italian as me). I suggest 'forward' -> 'immediately forward of the other six'.
I believe to remember that japan enlarged all its 200 mm guns to 203 mm ones.
pietro 2001:760:2C00:8001:9C5B:C967:4753:814A ( talk) 15:56, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
The old translation of Kaga ("Increased Joy") has re-appeared. I suggest it removing it again for the reasons given five years ago (see above), and updating the discussion of the ship's name accordingly. Astro$01 ( talk) 01:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
There used to be a photo in the "sinking" section of the dive bomber pilots who sank the carrier. What happened to it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.130.15.2 ( talk) 14:54, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Japanese aircraft carrier Kaga article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Japanese aircraft carrier Kaga is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Japanese aircraft carrier Kaga is part of the Tosa class battleships series, a featured topic. It is also part of the Battleships of Japan series, a featured topic. These are identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve them, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 4, 2012. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I find it somewhat hard to believe that when Kaga was initially converted to an aircraft carrier, that it maintained barbettes for its original 16" gun turrets. I've never seen that claim anywhere before. Furthermore, this drawing of Kaga's armor scheme does not show any barbettes for the original armament.
The coordinates need the following fixes: The map seems to point out a location at 0E, 30S ... ?
Popoi ( talk) 23:48, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of coordinates, the position of the supposed wreckage doesn't make much sense when compared with the position at which the ship sank. The Nauticos analysis (which isn't at the link specified in the references section any more, but can be found fairly easily from there) speculates that the wreckage they think is from Kaga must have come off the ship before she sank, and fair enough; but even taking that into account, the spacing stretches credibility. Those two locations are 280 miles apart! Even if, as Nauticos say, "the wreckage may be as far as five and half hours (at whatever drifting speed was prevalent) from the main wreck itself," that presumes that the prevalent drifting speed was FIFTY MILES PER HOUR, which doesn't strike me as terribly likely.
Regardless, even as much of an element of uncertainty as Nauticos themselves allow for isn't mentioned in the article at all. The "wreck survey" section is worded as though there is no doubt at all as to the wreckage's identification. Zgryphon ( talk) 23:00, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
I saw this was recently passed. It's a very nice little article; good work! I think that if it's to be considered a GA, it should have it's WP:LEAD expanded to cover the whole article, and in more detail. Probably 2 big, or 3 medium paragraphs worth. - Peregrine Fisher ( talk) ( contribs) 03:10, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
I have some more photos of this ship that I'll try to get uploaded to Commons this week, including one showing the carrier operating during the China Incident. Cla68 ( talk) 13:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
The article is getting close. I have a few other issues I want to take care of, including:
I've ordered Peattie and Parshall & Tully from Amazon; hopefully they'll arrive before the FAC goes live. I'm not sure whether it's a trend, but lately we've had a whole lot of people making requests and giving their two cents in ship FACs; I want to be ready in case there's a lot to deal with. Cla68 is a great writer so I doubt this article needs more copyediting than the stuff I did at ACR, but if you guys have questions or want me to go through it again, please give me a shout. - Dank ( push to talk) 18:31, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
Jiro Horikoshi was the chief designer and was present during many of the prototype's tests. In his history of the Zero, published in Japan in 1970 and in English translation in 1980, he makes no mention of carrier flight tests. He states however that in May 1940 he was informed the navy would send the prototype to China about the middle of July, even though it had not yet been fully tested. "Operational tests, based on actual combat experiences, were continued by the Navy pilots under Lietenant Shimokawa, his objective being to advance to the front lines during July." JH "learned through the Navy bulletin that some Prototype 12s had finally been sent to China in July after the Navy was reasonably sure the airplane would be usable for actual combat operations." The Navy officially accepted the fighter at the end of July 1940. Aside from the difference in months (June vice July), this is consistent with the information above (on service in China), but no mention is made of carrier trials. Eagles of Mitsubishi: The Story of the Zero Fighter, pp. 93–95.
In his 1956 book Zero! JH mentions what appears to be the first combat missions in China, on August 19 and 20, 1940. The first actual combat was in September. Again, no mention is made in this book of carrier qualification trials. Kablammo ( talk) 01:09, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
The article is categorized within Unique aircraft carriers, yet it has the Tosa-class battleship template. Could someone clarify? Brandmeister talk 17:47, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
I know that in naval jargon and some common parlance it is okay to give ships, cars, and other objects the personal pronoun, but is that appropriate in an encyclopedia? My opinion is that it's not, but I'm interested in what others think. — Dr.queso ( talk • contribs) 19:34, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
When I say "reliable sources" I mean the sources used to create articles about ships. When I limit this to English ones, I only do so to show that "she" is perfectly acceptable in English (not to limit the sources used to English). Can you provide evidence that "many readers object"? Additionally, I have answered your question on my talk page with a quick sample of reliable sources which use "she" for ships. ( Hohum @) 16:33, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Dr.queso = as the proud owner of a user account with less than a week's editing history, you might find youself better received if you didn't just burst in herer telling everyone else that they are wrong. This subject has been debated and put to bed a long time ago. Until and unless you acheive a consensus to change the convention as it has already been explained to you in this discussion you are just wasting everyone's time here. You would be well advised to spend a lot more time learning how things are done here on Wikipedia than by apparently setting yourself up as some sort of ultimate authority on a given subject, ignoring what everyone else is telling you and not understanding that Wikipedia works by consensus. You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. - Nick Thorne talk 17:01, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
The article currently states:
Embarrassing really. A supposedly top article and its not even barely right! William Forbes-Sempill, 19th Lord Sempill, a British aviation expert first went to Japan in 1920 as part of a trade mission was sent there on the orders of the British government to help the Imperial Navy build aircraft carriers and train its naval aviators. Where is the source for the above statement, I don't see one? And in a supposedly good article too. Sempill was in Japan two years before the boat was even launched. He then became a Japanese agent, who for money, on his return to UK passed on secret information regarding British technical achievements to the Japanese in his role as a pioneering aeronautical expert. It is of little wonder that the Japanese, in less than seven years, had a carrier fleet to rival the UKs and USAs.
It's all there in the National Archives. Pity it is not here though. Just irks me that these articles are promoted as "good" when many just barely get close! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.142.55 ( talk)
Hi, I have tagged what I deem to be excessive detail. In an article about an aircraft carrier, knowing the names of individual pilots and also having squadron photographs of them is excessive. I think it is enough that the type of "enemy" dive bombers (from the carrier's POV) used and the "enemy" units involved in the sinking is enough. If anyone is interested in the names of individual pilots or the exact names of the US carriers involved in the sinking, they can click the links to the units or the article about the Battle of Midway. When I read this article about a Japanese aircraft carrier, at times I felt it to be an article about US dive bomber squadrons and I expect it to be centered on its subject. AadaamS ( talk) 20:34, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello,
Wouldn't you think this article ought to mention the Kaga aircraft carrier has been impersonated into an anime girl in the Japanese game Kantai Collection ? As the game is WILDLY popular in Japan, I feel this would deserve a mention in the main article. Well, just mentioning :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.142.190.50 ( talk) 00:10, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
{{geodata-check}}
The following coordinate fixes are needed for location of IJN Kaga.
The coordinates listed are 28°38′34″N 176°29′16″W That location is NE of Midway Island. Kaga was sunk (scuttled by IJN) NW of Midway. I believe the 'West' in the Coordinates should be 'East'.
— 23.116.5.207 ( talk) 21:57, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
I am surprised that this article features a translation of the name Kaga, because Kaga does not in fact mean anything. As the disambiguation page makes clear, Kaga is the name of a province of Japan, and applying this to the ship reflects the Japanese Navy's practice when she was named of naming their capital ships for provinces. It is exactly analogous to the USN's practice of naming capitals for states of the USA.
Japanese carriers were ordinarily named after mythical or proverbial flying creatures, but this rule was followed only if they were purpose-built ab initio as such. Thus Hosho of 1922 was named after the phoenix but Akagi and Kaga were laid down and named as gun-armed line of battle vessels, keeping those names when repurposed as carriers.
To say that Kaga means "Increased joy" is thus misleading. While the name of the carrier Taiho does indeed mean "Great Phoenix", it was meant to. Kaga is just a place name and to say it means anything is inaccurate; that it does is just a coincidence. By analogy, it is as though a Japanese Wikipedia article discussing the US battleship Washington were to claim that its name translates as "the laundering of a ton", or that the USS New Jersey means "man's unworn upper body garment".
I propose that this be removed from the article. Tirailleur ( talk) 10:53, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
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the statement
The two twin turrets on the middle flight deck were removed and four new 20 cm/50 3rd Year Type No. 1 guns in casemates were added forward.
suggests an addition at bow (at least for an italian as me). I suggest 'forward' -> 'immediately forward of the other six'.
I believe to remember that japan enlarged all its 200 mm guns to 203 mm ones.
pietro 2001:760:2C00:8001:9C5B:C967:4753:814A ( talk) 15:56, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
The old translation of Kaga ("Increased Joy") has re-appeared. I suggest it removing it again for the reasons given five years ago (see above), and updating the discussion of the ship's name accordingly. Astro$01 ( talk) 01:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
There used to be a photo in the "sinking" section of the dive bomber pilots who sank the carrier. What happened to it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.130.15.2 ( talk) 14:54, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC)