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I believe this article should be merged with Zen and the merged article should be focused on specifically the Japanese variation of Chan Buddhism. The general page talking about all the traditions of the Chan School should actually be the Chan page, since the school was founded in China. There is also the Dhyāna in Buddhism page to talk about the principle itself.
The common english name for the Chan school is often the Japanese name, but that is because of ignorance of the average english-speaker. Why should wikipedia participate in this bias towards japanese language and culture?
In my experience, the term "zen" is used to refer to the general school (and not specifically the japanese school) only by people who are not more well-informed about the subject, or by those speaking to those who may not be more well-informed, who would instead otherwise use the term “Chán fójiào”. Mualphachi ( talk) 17:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
I'd like to re-open an old discussion: separate pages for Chán and Zen. There is a lot more to say on Japanese Zen then there is now on the page. Here is my proposal. Technically it would mean to move the Chán-information to the Chán-page, removing the specific Zen-information on this page (except for the 'Zen in Japan-section'), and copying my proposal to the Zenpage. Friendly regards, Joshua Jonathan ( talk) 10:16, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for mentioning the SPLIT-page! I'll read it, think it over once again, and apply the necessary templates. Joshua Jonathan ( talk) 07:32, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Good start on this article! I just wanted to point out that it doesn't mention Nōnin, who actually introduced Zen before Dogen and Eisai. Nonin's article needs some work too! Also, the history bit doesn't really differentiate well between Rinzai and Soto. I can see, knowing the background already, that there is some intention to do this, but I think someone without prior knowledge would get confused by the Muromachi Period section, for example. I would propose treating them separately, because they have basically been separate since their introduction to Japan. Perhaps instead of just a "History" section, split it into "History of the Rinzai School" and "History of the Soto School", or alternatively, have a separate subsubsection for each school under each historical period subsection. Or perhaps the text could just be altered to make it clearer. DJLayton4 ( talk) 02:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Excessively concerned with seeing Soto Zen as a single, unified school, they [Japanese scholars] have been hesitant to consider any evidence that might question the uniqueness of Zen as a whole (Faure (2000), Visions of power, p.3)
To be honest, I know very little of the institutional history of Rinzai and Soto. But I've also read that Rinzai was more associated with the upper classes. Tengu800, what do you know about this? But, I did read this morning (due to your previous comments) part of Dumoulin on the beginnings of the Edo-periode; the Zen-schools came under strict governmental rule then, and were forced to systematize themselves in schools. Should be intersting to add this information, though not now; my family requests their fair share of time and attention. Happy Christmas! Joshua Jonathan ( talk) 07:40, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
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With the other article.
Esteban.Vicenzi ( talk) 09:19, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I believe this article should be merged with Zen and the merged article should be focused on specifically the Japanese variation of Chan Buddhism. The general page talking about all the traditions of the Chan School should actually be the Chan page, since the school was founded in China. There is also the Dhyāna in Buddhism page to talk about the principle itself.
The common english name for the Chan school is often the Japanese name, but that is because of ignorance of the average english-speaker. Why should wikipedia participate in this bias towards japanese language and culture?
In my experience, the term "zen" is used to refer to the general school (and not specifically the japanese school) only by people who are not more well-informed about the subject, or by those speaking to those who may not be more well-informed, who would instead otherwise use the term “Chán fójiào”. Mualphachi ( talk) 17:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
I'd like to re-open an old discussion: separate pages for Chán and Zen. There is a lot more to say on Japanese Zen then there is now on the page. Here is my proposal. Technically it would mean to move the Chán-information to the Chán-page, removing the specific Zen-information on this page (except for the 'Zen in Japan-section'), and copying my proposal to the Zenpage. Friendly regards, Joshua Jonathan ( talk) 10:16, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for mentioning the SPLIT-page! I'll read it, think it over once again, and apply the necessary templates. Joshua Jonathan ( talk) 07:32, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Good start on this article! I just wanted to point out that it doesn't mention Nōnin, who actually introduced Zen before Dogen and Eisai. Nonin's article needs some work too! Also, the history bit doesn't really differentiate well between Rinzai and Soto. I can see, knowing the background already, that there is some intention to do this, but I think someone without prior knowledge would get confused by the Muromachi Period section, for example. I would propose treating them separately, because they have basically been separate since their introduction to Japan. Perhaps instead of just a "History" section, split it into "History of the Rinzai School" and "History of the Soto School", or alternatively, have a separate subsubsection for each school under each historical period subsection. Or perhaps the text could just be altered to make it clearer. DJLayton4 ( talk) 02:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Excessively concerned with seeing Soto Zen as a single, unified school, they [Japanese scholars] have been hesitant to consider any evidence that might question the uniqueness of Zen as a whole (Faure (2000), Visions of power, p.3)
To be honest, I know very little of the institutional history of Rinzai and Soto. But I've also read that Rinzai was more associated with the upper classes. Tengu800, what do you know about this? But, I did read this morning (due to your previous comments) part of Dumoulin on the beginnings of the Edo-periode; the Zen-schools came under strict governmental rule then, and were forced to systematize themselves in schools. Should be intersting to add this information, though not now; my family requests their fair share of time and attention. Happy Christmas! Joshua Jonathan ( talk) 07:40, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Japanese Zen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.essenes.net/pdf/Teaching%20and%20Learning%20in%20the%20Rinzai%20Zen%20Monastery%20.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
With the other article.
Esteban.Vicenzi ( talk) 09:19, 27 May 2024 (UTC)