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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | → | Archive 15 |
I hate it. Only until it gets to "See Also" is his true nature revealed. The external links are almost all pro-Jack. Where is the vocal opposition?? Why aren't gamers, gaming sites and gaming forums, other than Game Politics included? This is truly disgusting. Maluka 04:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Because Wikipedia can't stand up for itself.
The article is getting long enough to start warning about size, so it's necessary to be concise and focus on describing events and actions. Not everything he has ever said belongs in the article. Again, if it's just a quote, it should go to Wikiquote. -- Michael Snow 04:30, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Although the atricle is getting long, it is all relevant. A lot of information needs to be put back in, with sources to back it up. But the quotes should be shortened to the point without changing the meaning. I also think the number of links should be put back in as they contained good information. I also think that his threat against Wikipedia need to be documented. Anyone else agree with me here? -- Shaoken 09:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Of the things i would consider moving, currently what is in the "Other activities tab" makes little sense. The lawsuit is game related legal action, the Florida settlement is probably a directly effect of the Reno/sanity thing, and the Howard Stern thing is activism. I also think Jack Thompson and Rockstar is so much of each of the litigation and activism that it should probably be seperated. His main issue is with them it seems, and the others could be perhaps named "Other litigation/activism" SanderJK 11:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I seriously think we could trim the RAP MUSIC portion. While it did bring Thompson onto the National Scene it didn't bring him into as much prominence as the Howard Stern fight. I also feel the Stern fight should be given its own Heading, with a bit more filling out. I also agree it could use a good bit of breaking up. The article just runs on in the Activism section.-- Tollwutig 15:35, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
The earliest articles mentioned here about his videogame activism date back to 1999 (I believe), meaning that he's been envolved with it for 6 years at least, and as far as i can tell, the only thing he's been involved with since he started to become known to the gaming community. I agree that it shouldn't get undue weight, but so far this article spawns 18 years of career, and not all of that in the spotlight. Things you do in the spotlight generate more news and more notoriety. Especially because he takes an extremist enough view on gaming to cause other conservative pro family organisations to distance themselves, and is in the gaming media constantly (There has been a forum "signature" that updated since last he made a crazy statement, for months on end it never crossed 2 days) it is not at all unreasonable to request that the article reflects his notoriety and extremism. SanderJK 18:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
One thing that has been looked over so far in the new article has been the NIMF telling Jacko to stop using their name in association with himself. There's a good Gamespot article on the story here: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6135846.html 216.89.171.253 22:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I just tried to link Flowers for Jack in the main page, but it did not work, i get redirected to this page again. The link in the "see also" section works fine, i have no idea what is going on. Can anyone fix it? SanderJK 11:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, fixed. SanderJK 12:40, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
This section seems pretty poorly organized. It has very little information on his actual campaign and seems to start off focusing on something somewhat unrelated. If it (the radio station connection) is actually pertinent, can anyone dig up some more information so it doesn't look like it's just thrown in there 'for kicks'? -- Keyne 12:39, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't think we should say he has a grudge. Perhaps it should simply state that "Thompson first met Reno in November 1975 when he applied for a job as a prosecutor in Dade County. He was not hired. [1]" Something like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CyberSkull ( talk • contribs) 14:46, April 5, 2006
In his campaign, Thompson cast himself as a Batman-like character, a solitary figure helping law enforcement when it was unable to protect the public on its own. He portrayed 2 Live Crew frontman Luther Campbell not as Luke Skyywalker (his stage name), but as the Joker "peddling obscenity to children".[1]
Do we really need this? Just seems extraneous to me. I know it shows how kooky Thompson can be, but still seems un-needed wordage.-- Tollwutig 15:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
An update to his efforts to get school boards involved with a Bully boycott. I guess the Miami school board didn't quite agree with him afterall.
Secretive new video game might inspire school bullies - Miami Herald
Thompson asks school board to adopt a resolution urging Rockstar not to release Bully, asking local merchants not to sell it and asking parents not to buy it.
Video game targeted by Miami-Dade School Board - Miami Herald
School board waters down the resolution before adopting it, which now urged retailers not to sell Bully to minors and directed the district to inform parents "on the potential harmful effects to children of playing interactive video games containing violence." Jabrwock 18:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
For reference, he started campaigning against Bully in august 2005 ( http://xbox.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5399), earlier then the Institute thing (14/10) ( http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12259) are we trying to maintain chronology in the activism section? SanderJK 20:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't trying to get us to introduce these sites, i've heard of neither before today, they were just the top google links when i searched for the events+dates. I was just wondering since the general layout of the article seems to be chronological, both with sections and within sections, wether or not bully needs to move. Flowers for Jack might be in the wrong spot too. SanderJK 23:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Here's a Fox News report on that Peaceaholics protest about Bully, and it mentions that Thompson was there, and quotes him: "Columbine changed the face of America but you [Rockstar] are about to come out with a game that celebrates, glamorizes and trains kids to do what [Columbine killers] Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris did... Bullying is not a subject for a video game. We are not asking Rockstar to stop making this game, we are demanding they stop." Jabrwock 17:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
As an addition to this, is there some way to include the vocal interview given at http://www.wccoradio.com/pages/3648.php ? I find this interesting since, he claims the school boards ruling to be something completely different to the outcome of the actual meeting as listed in the Miami Herald here... http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14105904.htm.
Mr Thompson claims that the board requested that retailers not stock the game at all, whereas the Miami Herald claims that the board only requested the game not be sold to minors and that parents be educated as to the meaning of the ratings? I'm not sure how to do this without it sounding biased Flipside72 03:27, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone find transcripts of his testimony before the Delaware Judicial Committee yesterday (wed, march 15)? He held up a video game and said This is not speech... WHYY (a Philadelphia NPR affiliate) was there with a camera, they might have gotten it. It would be handy, because I think he did a podcast interview on GamePolitics where he stated that games ARE speech... (trying to track that one down too) Jabrwock 20:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have any info on that $246 million lawsuit in Tenessee? According to the GTAIII wiki, it's been "pending" as of 2004. It's been two years, what was the name of the suit, and has it moved, defeated or been dropped?
Also, is it important to state how the cases turned out? Dustin Lynch pled guilty and was sentenced to life in prison. Medina Gazette (it's a google archive, there's problems with the medina-gazette page right now) Jabrwock 20:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
August 2005 filed Thompson v. Best Buy - a Complaint for Injunctive Relief in Miami-Dade county court for the 11th circuit.
Anyone know what happened to this? It was a petition to have Bully declared a "public nuisance" so it couldn't be sold in the state. Jabrwock 21:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Contradicts his statement in Chatterbox interview (15 min) where he says that adults should be free to buy whatever games they want. Jabrwock
I did some footwork here and found that the complaint was dismissed with a VOLUNTARY DISMISSAL. I would recommend someone more versed in the ways of Wikipedia review the documents I found and act appropriately so as the information is posted within the scope of the scrutiny of this article.
The case filed 8/17/05 Thompson V. BEST BUY CO OF MINNESOTA INC. (et al). is (local) case number 2005-16769-CA-01 and (state) case number 13-2005-CA-016769-0000-01. The document that dropped the case was a VOLUNTARY DISMISSAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE recorded in official records book 23897 page 2807 and can be read by searching public records of Miami-Dade County Clerk of Courts database ( http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/image.asp?page=1&cfn_master_id=18181341#image -should be a direct link).
I hope this helps the cause of bettering this article and Wikipedia as a whole. DaveReaves 17:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm curious if the powers that be that now preside over this article would consider simple correction to be "original research". For example, suppose I can find a "reputable" source for Jack Thompson saying that EA should lose their right to defend their copyright on The Sims 2 because they allow users to mod the game. Would it then be "original research" to point out that the doctrine that intellectual property rights must be defended in order not to be lost only applies to trademarks and not copyrights? The only part of No Original Research that I can find that this even touches near is the following:
...it introduces a synthesis of established facts in a way that builds a particular case favored by the editor, without attributing the synthesis to a reputable source.
I'm not convinced that simply pointing out a legal error made by Thompson (significant because he's a lawyer) fits under that heading. 216.89.171.253 22:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't think we should provide a link to Thompson's Wikiquote until that section is cleaned up considerably. While it retains some very juicy quotes, they are either not sourced anymore (Livejournal blocking Thompson's accounts) or generally very poorly sourced to begin with. If someone wants to help, we could begin re-sourcing that so it can be included in the bio wiki here. -- Keyne 15:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1105364082606 Legal News website, has an article on Video Games and Jack Thompson, tying him to Illinois an Michigan gaming bills, and the Best Buy lawsuit. -- Tollwutig 15:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC) (forgot to sign)
http://www.law.com/jsp/newswire_article.jsp?id=1015973956860
I am thinking this is a reputable site.-- Tollwutig 16:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I think we should add some of the links to his interviews down the bottom. The links to parodys and such can be left out though. -- Shaoken 00:33, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Personally I think they should go into Wikiquote as it's cleaned up. The Wikiquote needs a lot of clean up due to loss of links on Gamepolitics, after his perma ban. -- Tollwutig 18:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Can IGN be used as a source? They are considered quite reputable. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 21:20, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
It's a matter of how well the article they write is researched. If they are relying on Gamepolitics.com, etc for sources it'll be a hard sell. If you can point to an IGN interview with Thompson, you'd have an easier sell. The assumption here is gaming sites are inherently biased againse Thompson and thus the sources are not NPOV. -- Tollwutig 22:45, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Here would be the first one: An Open Letter from Jack Thompson. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 13:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
ESRB Adversary and Lawyer Targets Killer 7 Thompson did quote the game review from IGN in his statement regarding the game. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 13:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
What I was saying about Bias came directly from Michael Snow in: "The current article is well-supplied with high-quality sources and should only accept more of the same. We don't need niche media with an obvious bias in the matter just because that's all some people know how to find. The sheer laziness of that approach is what made the old article such a hash to begin with, and we're not going down that road again. --Michael Snow 21:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)" That comes out of the Archive 8 Speakin of Sources Heading-- Tollwutig 19:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
For example, this USATODAY article which shows inmates being given videogame consoles for good behaviour and subsequently remaining trouble-free?
Or is that actionable libel too? Professor Ninja 01:36, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I would like nothing more than to see a point-by-point rebuttal of all of JBT's claims with good scientific sources, but, and it pains me to say it, that might be considered Original Research. I'm not an experienced wiki person, so don't take my statements as law here, but, given the *ahem* stringent standards this new article is being held to, it might be difficult to make a case for such an inclusion. 216.89.171.253 14:18, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I see nothing in the section on a modest video game proposal wherein Thompson contradicted his assertion that the proposal itself was only satire some time before he made the satire claim. This actually occured and is a verifiable event. I would assume that this documented email occurence that made it on to several sites would pass whatever magic verifiability test we're now under, so I was hoping if anybody could remember where it was that he blatantly lied either about one thing or the other. Professor Ninja 05:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I have a question should the statment about him predicting the beltway sniper would be a gamer be reworded. I only ask becasue to me that statment makes him seem like that his prediction was correct and there is no evidence to prove that. -- SleepyDan 15:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Whether or not he CLAIMED to be correct, he wasn't, so I agree that the wording should be changed. 24.176.26.37 22:33, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Thompson speculate that the perpetrator of the Beltway sniper attacks would be "a teenaged boy, who plays video games" and "may indeed ride a bicycle to and from his shooting locations, his gun broken down and placed in a backpack while he pedals." The official investigation showed one of the attackers had extensive military training, and no evidence of any video game links were found. Despite this Thompson still claims the attackers trained on the popular game HALO[42]
I'll look for articles relating. Pretty sure we can find something show they didn't train on Halo. Can anyone verify that after the fact Thompson has claimed to a verifiable news source that they trained on Halo. Think he may have said something in the Alabama case on it.-- Tollwutig 14:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC) http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/sniper/timeline_investigation.html Long article on the whole Beltway Sniper. Doesn't go into a whole lot of detail but never mentions video games.-- Tollwutig 15:14, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060320/NEWS/603200332/1006 Article which quotes his Testimony for the Delaware legislation-- Tollwutig 19:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Found a bunch of articles detailing Thompson's response to Walsh's letter.
Lawyer Jack Thompson bitten, bites back - The Inquirer UK
Similar articles are also found in:
Jabrwock 16:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Wow.... he actually Godwins in his response letter. Wow. SanderJK 10:42, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
CBS GameCore: Jack Thompson Interview
You see, the industry is selling these games to kids whose parents are reckless.
How does free speech factor in?
There is no right of children to buy adult entertainment. None.
This has been disproven in multiple court cases, so if it's gonna go in the article,there has to be some courter points refrencing the supreme court ruling of the 70's that stated that minors do have 1st amendment rights as far as violence in media goes. Also we could referance recent ruling in illinois and washington, as well as michigan and californa. Just suggestions.( 216.207.124.226 04:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC))
Jabrwock 19:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
JT: "I just successfully sued Best Buy and compelled them to institute a new nationwide policy." anyone know to what this relates, and what the actual outcome was? I recall something of the nature, where some out of court agreement was made.... SanderJK 20:48, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Also, i just noted that the "Columbine times 10" quote is in this. SanderJK 20:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
It's worth noting that he failed to provide proof of either the Suit being succesful, but I do recall seeing that after the defandants, I.E best buy filled a motion to dismiss for Failure to state a claim, thompson withdrew the case. however, records of that case are unlocated at this time. I will search. It is notable as wel, that his supposed "Sting" never had any proof behind it and never had any verification from anyone, including thompson himself. Someone may wish to include that bit of info as well. A through search of 40 major news sites, game and non game, show no proof from thompson, at any point, was forth coming. He makes a series of claims, but refuses to provide evidance. May be something to investigate for the article. It's important to show that if thompson is making claims without proof or verification, it should be shown. ( 216.207.124.226 03:52, 22 March 2006 (UTC))
Yeah the article on Jack has more proof and verification than the man himself, sad really-- Tollwutig 18:05, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
If Jack Thompson was only about restricting games to children, he wouldn't be as much of a nutcase as he is (he'd still be a nut for other reasons, of course). But the fact is, he seems to project the feeling that only children play video games, and no games should be marketed to adults anyway, because no adults play video games. It's not just that he's trying to get kids to stop playing, he's trying to get EVERYONE to stop playing. I believe the article should convey this information, but I have absolutely no idea how to do so. Anyone have quotes along these lines? Fieari 21:54, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
It would be helpful if we knew what lawsuits he's filed in Florida. (Miami-Dade County, Florida, Circuit Court) If anyone was able to get lawsuit titles & short descriptions + resolution from the courthouse that would be handy. Jabrwock 22:12, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
It has occured to me that it may help Wiki, in there effort for verification, to Contact Dennis Mccauley of GP. While article from GP may not be veiwed as "verifiable", dennis has many of thompsons own press releases that can be verified, and so should be included in the article. I know that thompson got all on wiki's case about the article being "negitive", but if what it says is verifed as his own words, I hardly see how he'd have any argument. Just a thought.(
216.207.124.226
04:06, 22 March 2006 (UTC))
That would stink of original research, not to mention Thompson would just as likely say Dennis made it all up. I say if can get Dennis to release them, and someone host them, to put them in Wikiquote. -- Tollwutig 18:09, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
I would assume that most people look up Jack Thompson in order to see the attorney rather than the actor or football player. Shouldn't this article be the main redirect? -- Michiel Sikma 21:34, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and was bold. Jack Thompson now redirects here. Each of the three Jack Thompsons has a link to the disambiguation page, which is located at Jack Thompson (disambiguation). I'm reluctant to move this page to plain old Jack Thompson, but this should be satisfactory, I think. Fieari 19:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
You looked at the older atricle and said"well,im no expert on the topic,so im just gonna go ahead and edit everything in the old article was true. people voted to keep it. jack thompson is not a guardian o the children anti-obsecenity figure that he so persistantly makes himself out to be. he is a cowardly,bad-spirited,prejudice,ignorant,hypocrite of a bible-thumping loser thats more likey to make me kill then any game could. .—This unsigned comment was added by Grahamr,the Gilnean Pally ( talk • contribs) .
Shouldn't there be a header that is labled "Criticisms" in this article? Like most people one Wikipedia that have political or other important influence, there should be a section that is "Criticisms." (on the other topics, I'm disappointed by the fact that so much information was taken out of this article. Let's try and build it up again) TheSun 23:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this - obviously there is alot of criticism being made against this person, there should be a section for this. Sfacets 01:43, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
http://www.wccoradio.com/pages/3648.php
Goes on air to lambast NIMF, claim Hot Coffee included anal sex, and claim the FBI and the Secret Service found a causal link between video game play and school shootings.
There is a published report from the FBI & SS made after Columbine, but it finds that video games played little to no role in school shootings. I can't remember the report title, I'll see if I can track it down. 207.47.184.113 05:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Yeah this interview is full of false claims. What is needed is the following to add to it broken down by factual errors:
The thing about the NIMF claim, is that Target donates money to NIMF directly (Best Buy, you need to follow a chain through a bunch of organizations to follow the money), and yet Target got an awful score in NIMF's annual report card. So it's pretty obvious that donations != special treatment. Jabrwock 17:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Here are those Secret Service & FBI reports on Columbine that Thompson claimed find a causal link between violent games and school violence:
Jabrwock 17:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
How come nothing is mentioned about the "Wikipedia issue?" It certainly is noteworthy as the story was widely circulated and even forced the article to be locked. 69.156.205.72 20:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm sure Wikipedia would not consider Wikipedia as a credible source.
The following comment was left in the article by 68.9.46.93: "someone has um kinda done something to this page, the wikiquote link is gone, and only one eternal link of about twenty still exists. just hoping someone will fix this soon." Mikker ... 09:43, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | → | Archive 15 |
I hate it. Only until it gets to "See Also" is his true nature revealed. The external links are almost all pro-Jack. Where is the vocal opposition?? Why aren't gamers, gaming sites and gaming forums, other than Game Politics included? This is truly disgusting. Maluka 04:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Because Wikipedia can't stand up for itself.
The article is getting long enough to start warning about size, so it's necessary to be concise and focus on describing events and actions. Not everything he has ever said belongs in the article. Again, if it's just a quote, it should go to Wikiquote. -- Michael Snow 04:30, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Although the atricle is getting long, it is all relevant. A lot of information needs to be put back in, with sources to back it up. But the quotes should be shortened to the point without changing the meaning. I also think the number of links should be put back in as they contained good information. I also think that his threat against Wikipedia need to be documented. Anyone else agree with me here? -- Shaoken 09:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Of the things i would consider moving, currently what is in the "Other activities tab" makes little sense. The lawsuit is game related legal action, the Florida settlement is probably a directly effect of the Reno/sanity thing, and the Howard Stern thing is activism. I also think Jack Thompson and Rockstar is so much of each of the litigation and activism that it should probably be seperated. His main issue is with them it seems, and the others could be perhaps named "Other litigation/activism" SanderJK 11:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I seriously think we could trim the RAP MUSIC portion. While it did bring Thompson onto the National Scene it didn't bring him into as much prominence as the Howard Stern fight. I also feel the Stern fight should be given its own Heading, with a bit more filling out. I also agree it could use a good bit of breaking up. The article just runs on in the Activism section.-- Tollwutig 15:35, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
The earliest articles mentioned here about his videogame activism date back to 1999 (I believe), meaning that he's been envolved with it for 6 years at least, and as far as i can tell, the only thing he's been involved with since he started to become known to the gaming community. I agree that it shouldn't get undue weight, but so far this article spawns 18 years of career, and not all of that in the spotlight. Things you do in the spotlight generate more news and more notoriety. Especially because he takes an extremist enough view on gaming to cause other conservative pro family organisations to distance themselves, and is in the gaming media constantly (There has been a forum "signature" that updated since last he made a crazy statement, for months on end it never crossed 2 days) it is not at all unreasonable to request that the article reflects his notoriety and extremism. SanderJK 18:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
One thing that has been looked over so far in the new article has been the NIMF telling Jacko to stop using their name in association with himself. There's a good Gamespot article on the story here: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6135846.html 216.89.171.253 22:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I just tried to link Flowers for Jack in the main page, but it did not work, i get redirected to this page again. The link in the "see also" section works fine, i have no idea what is going on. Can anyone fix it? SanderJK 11:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, fixed. SanderJK 12:40, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
This section seems pretty poorly organized. It has very little information on his actual campaign and seems to start off focusing on something somewhat unrelated. If it (the radio station connection) is actually pertinent, can anyone dig up some more information so it doesn't look like it's just thrown in there 'for kicks'? -- Keyne 12:39, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't think we should say he has a grudge. Perhaps it should simply state that "Thompson first met Reno in November 1975 when he applied for a job as a prosecutor in Dade County. He was not hired. [1]" Something like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CyberSkull ( talk • contribs) 14:46, April 5, 2006
In his campaign, Thompson cast himself as a Batman-like character, a solitary figure helping law enforcement when it was unable to protect the public on its own. He portrayed 2 Live Crew frontman Luther Campbell not as Luke Skyywalker (his stage name), but as the Joker "peddling obscenity to children".[1]
Do we really need this? Just seems extraneous to me. I know it shows how kooky Thompson can be, but still seems un-needed wordage.-- Tollwutig 15:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
An update to his efforts to get school boards involved with a Bully boycott. I guess the Miami school board didn't quite agree with him afterall.
Secretive new video game might inspire school bullies - Miami Herald
Thompson asks school board to adopt a resolution urging Rockstar not to release Bully, asking local merchants not to sell it and asking parents not to buy it.
Video game targeted by Miami-Dade School Board - Miami Herald
School board waters down the resolution before adopting it, which now urged retailers not to sell Bully to minors and directed the district to inform parents "on the potential harmful effects to children of playing interactive video games containing violence." Jabrwock 18:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
For reference, he started campaigning against Bully in august 2005 ( http://xbox.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5399), earlier then the Institute thing (14/10) ( http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12259) are we trying to maintain chronology in the activism section? SanderJK 20:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't trying to get us to introduce these sites, i've heard of neither before today, they were just the top google links when i searched for the events+dates. I was just wondering since the general layout of the article seems to be chronological, both with sections and within sections, wether or not bully needs to move. Flowers for Jack might be in the wrong spot too. SanderJK 23:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Here's a Fox News report on that Peaceaholics protest about Bully, and it mentions that Thompson was there, and quotes him: "Columbine changed the face of America but you [Rockstar] are about to come out with a game that celebrates, glamorizes and trains kids to do what [Columbine killers] Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris did... Bullying is not a subject for a video game. We are not asking Rockstar to stop making this game, we are demanding they stop." Jabrwock 17:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
As an addition to this, is there some way to include the vocal interview given at http://www.wccoradio.com/pages/3648.php ? I find this interesting since, he claims the school boards ruling to be something completely different to the outcome of the actual meeting as listed in the Miami Herald here... http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14105904.htm.
Mr Thompson claims that the board requested that retailers not stock the game at all, whereas the Miami Herald claims that the board only requested the game not be sold to minors and that parents be educated as to the meaning of the ratings? I'm not sure how to do this without it sounding biased Flipside72 03:27, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone find transcripts of his testimony before the Delaware Judicial Committee yesterday (wed, march 15)? He held up a video game and said This is not speech... WHYY (a Philadelphia NPR affiliate) was there with a camera, they might have gotten it. It would be handy, because I think he did a podcast interview on GamePolitics where he stated that games ARE speech... (trying to track that one down too) Jabrwock 20:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have any info on that $246 million lawsuit in Tenessee? According to the GTAIII wiki, it's been "pending" as of 2004. It's been two years, what was the name of the suit, and has it moved, defeated or been dropped?
Also, is it important to state how the cases turned out? Dustin Lynch pled guilty and was sentenced to life in prison. Medina Gazette (it's a google archive, there's problems with the medina-gazette page right now) Jabrwock 20:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
August 2005 filed Thompson v. Best Buy - a Complaint for Injunctive Relief in Miami-Dade county court for the 11th circuit.
Anyone know what happened to this? It was a petition to have Bully declared a "public nuisance" so it couldn't be sold in the state. Jabrwock 21:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Contradicts his statement in Chatterbox interview (15 min) where he says that adults should be free to buy whatever games they want. Jabrwock
I did some footwork here and found that the complaint was dismissed with a VOLUNTARY DISMISSAL. I would recommend someone more versed in the ways of Wikipedia review the documents I found and act appropriately so as the information is posted within the scope of the scrutiny of this article.
The case filed 8/17/05 Thompson V. BEST BUY CO OF MINNESOTA INC. (et al). is (local) case number 2005-16769-CA-01 and (state) case number 13-2005-CA-016769-0000-01. The document that dropped the case was a VOLUNTARY DISMISSAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE recorded in official records book 23897 page 2807 and can be read by searching public records of Miami-Dade County Clerk of Courts database ( http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/image.asp?page=1&cfn_master_id=18181341#image -should be a direct link).
I hope this helps the cause of bettering this article and Wikipedia as a whole. DaveReaves 17:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm curious if the powers that be that now preside over this article would consider simple correction to be "original research". For example, suppose I can find a "reputable" source for Jack Thompson saying that EA should lose their right to defend their copyright on The Sims 2 because they allow users to mod the game. Would it then be "original research" to point out that the doctrine that intellectual property rights must be defended in order not to be lost only applies to trademarks and not copyrights? The only part of No Original Research that I can find that this even touches near is the following:
...it introduces a synthesis of established facts in a way that builds a particular case favored by the editor, without attributing the synthesis to a reputable source.
I'm not convinced that simply pointing out a legal error made by Thompson (significant because he's a lawyer) fits under that heading. 216.89.171.253 22:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't think we should provide a link to Thompson's Wikiquote until that section is cleaned up considerably. While it retains some very juicy quotes, they are either not sourced anymore (Livejournal blocking Thompson's accounts) or generally very poorly sourced to begin with. If someone wants to help, we could begin re-sourcing that so it can be included in the bio wiki here. -- Keyne 15:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1105364082606 Legal News website, has an article on Video Games and Jack Thompson, tying him to Illinois an Michigan gaming bills, and the Best Buy lawsuit. -- Tollwutig 15:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC) (forgot to sign)
http://www.law.com/jsp/newswire_article.jsp?id=1015973956860
I am thinking this is a reputable site.-- Tollwutig 16:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I think we should add some of the links to his interviews down the bottom. The links to parodys and such can be left out though. -- Shaoken 00:33, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Personally I think they should go into Wikiquote as it's cleaned up. The Wikiquote needs a lot of clean up due to loss of links on Gamepolitics, after his perma ban. -- Tollwutig 18:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Can IGN be used as a source? They are considered quite reputable. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 21:20, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
It's a matter of how well the article they write is researched. If they are relying on Gamepolitics.com, etc for sources it'll be a hard sell. If you can point to an IGN interview with Thompson, you'd have an easier sell. The assumption here is gaming sites are inherently biased againse Thompson and thus the sources are not NPOV. -- Tollwutig 22:45, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Here would be the first one: An Open Letter from Jack Thompson. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 13:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
ESRB Adversary and Lawyer Targets Killer 7 Thompson did quote the game review from IGN in his statement regarding the game. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 13:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
What I was saying about Bias came directly from Michael Snow in: "The current article is well-supplied with high-quality sources and should only accept more of the same. We don't need niche media with an obvious bias in the matter just because that's all some people know how to find. The sheer laziness of that approach is what made the old article such a hash to begin with, and we're not going down that road again. --Michael Snow 21:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)" That comes out of the Archive 8 Speakin of Sources Heading-- Tollwutig 19:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
For example, this USATODAY article which shows inmates being given videogame consoles for good behaviour and subsequently remaining trouble-free?
Or is that actionable libel too? Professor Ninja 01:36, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I would like nothing more than to see a point-by-point rebuttal of all of JBT's claims with good scientific sources, but, and it pains me to say it, that might be considered Original Research. I'm not an experienced wiki person, so don't take my statements as law here, but, given the *ahem* stringent standards this new article is being held to, it might be difficult to make a case for such an inclusion. 216.89.171.253 14:18, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I see nothing in the section on a modest video game proposal wherein Thompson contradicted his assertion that the proposal itself was only satire some time before he made the satire claim. This actually occured and is a verifiable event. I would assume that this documented email occurence that made it on to several sites would pass whatever magic verifiability test we're now under, so I was hoping if anybody could remember where it was that he blatantly lied either about one thing or the other. Professor Ninja 05:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I have a question should the statment about him predicting the beltway sniper would be a gamer be reworded. I only ask becasue to me that statment makes him seem like that his prediction was correct and there is no evidence to prove that. -- SleepyDan 15:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Whether or not he CLAIMED to be correct, he wasn't, so I agree that the wording should be changed. 24.176.26.37 22:33, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Thompson speculate that the perpetrator of the Beltway sniper attacks would be "a teenaged boy, who plays video games" and "may indeed ride a bicycle to and from his shooting locations, his gun broken down and placed in a backpack while he pedals." The official investigation showed one of the attackers had extensive military training, and no evidence of any video game links were found. Despite this Thompson still claims the attackers trained on the popular game HALO[42]
I'll look for articles relating. Pretty sure we can find something show they didn't train on Halo. Can anyone verify that after the fact Thompson has claimed to a verifiable news source that they trained on Halo. Think he may have said something in the Alabama case on it.-- Tollwutig 14:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC) http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/sniper/timeline_investigation.html Long article on the whole Beltway Sniper. Doesn't go into a whole lot of detail but never mentions video games.-- Tollwutig 15:14, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060320/NEWS/603200332/1006 Article which quotes his Testimony for the Delaware legislation-- Tollwutig 19:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Found a bunch of articles detailing Thompson's response to Walsh's letter.
Lawyer Jack Thompson bitten, bites back - The Inquirer UK
Similar articles are also found in:
Jabrwock 16:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Wow.... he actually Godwins in his response letter. Wow. SanderJK 10:42, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
CBS GameCore: Jack Thompson Interview
You see, the industry is selling these games to kids whose parents are reckless.
How does free speech factor in?
There is no right of children to buy adult entertainment. None.
This has been disproven in multiple court cases, so if it's gonna go in the article,there has to be some courter points refrencing the supreme court ruling of the 70's that stated that minors do have 1st amendment rights as far as violence in media goes. Also we could referance recent ruling in illinois and washington, as well as michigan and californa. Just suggestions.( 216.207.124.226 04:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC))
Jabrwock 19:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
JT: "I just successfully sued Best Buy and compelled them to institute a new nationwide policy." anyone know to what this relates, and what the actual outcome was? I recall something of the nature, where some out of court agreement was made.... SanderJK 20:48, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Also, i just noted that the "Columbine times 10" quote is in this. SanderJK 20:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
It's worth noting that he failed to provide proof of either the Suit being succesful, but I do recall seeing that after the defandants, I.E best buy filled a motion to dismiss for Failure to state a claim, thompson withdrew the case. however, records of that case are unlocated at this time. I will search. It is notable as wel, that his supposed "Sting" never had any proof behind it and never had any verification from anyone, including thompson himself. Someone may wish to include that bit of info as well. A through search of 40 major news sites, game and non game, show no proof from thompson, at any point, was forth coming. He makes a series of claims, but refuses to provide evidance. May be something to investigate for the article. It's important to show that if thompson is making claims without proof or verification, it should be shown. ( 216.207.124.226 03:52, 22 March 2006 (UTC))
Yeah the article on Jack has more proof and verification than the man himself, sad really-- Tollwutig 18:05, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
If Jack Thompson was only about restricting games to children, he wouldn't be as much of a nutcase as he is (he'd still be a nut for other reasons, of course). But the fact is, he seems to project the feeling that only children play video games, and no games should be marketed to adults anyway, because no adults play video games. It's not just that he's trying to get kids to stop playing, he's trying to get EVERYONE to stop playing. I believe the article should convey this information, but I have absolutely no idea how to do so. Anyone have quotes along these lines? Fieari 21:54, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
It would be helpful if we knew what lawsuits he's filed in Florida. (Miami-Dade County, Florida, Circuit Court) If anyone was able to get lawsuit titles & short descriptions + resolution from the courthouse that would be handy. Jabrwock 22:12, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
It has occured to me that it may help Wiki, in there effort for verification, to Contact Dennis Mccauley of GP. While article from GP may not be veiwed as "verifiable", dennis has many of thompsons own press releases that can be verified, and so should be included in the article. I know that thompson got all on wiki's case about the article being "negitive", but if what it says is verifed as his own words, I hardly see how he'd have any argument. Just a thought.(
216.207.124.226
04:06, 22 March 2006 (UTC))
That would stink of original research, not to mention Thompson would just as likely say Dennis made it all up. I say if can get Dennis to release them, and someone host them, to put them in Wikiquote. -- Tollwutig 18:09, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
I would assume that most people look up Jack Thompson in order to see the attorney rather than the actor or football player. Shouldn't this article be the main redirect? -- Michiel Sikma 21:34, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and was bold. Jack Thompson now redirects here. Each of the three Jack Thompsons has a link to the disambiguation page, which is located at Jack Thompson (disambiguation). I'm reluctant to move this page to plain old Jack Thompson, but this should be satisfactory, I think. Fieari 19:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
You looked at the older atricle and said"well,im no expert on the topic,so im just gonna go ahead and edit everything in the old article was true. people voted to keep it. jack thompson is not a guardian o the children anti-obsecenity figure that he so persistantly makes himself out to be. he is a cowardly,bad-spirited,prejudice,ignorant,hypocrite of a bible-thumping loser thats more likey to make me kill then any game could. .—This unsigned comment was added by Grahamr,the Gilnean Pally ( talk • contribs) .
Shouldn't there be a header that is labled "Criticisms" in this article? Like most people one Wikipedia that have political or other important influence, there should be a section that is "Criticisms." (on the other topics, I'm disappointed by the fact that so much information was taken out of this article. Let's try and build it up again) TheSun 23:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this - obviously there is alot of criticism being made against this person, there should be a section for this. Sfacets 01:43, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
http://www.wccoradio.com/pages/3648.php
Goes on air to lambast NIMF, claim Hot Coffee included anal sex, and claim the FBI and the Secret Service found a causal link between video game play and school shootings.
There is a published report from the FBI & SS made after Columbine, but it finds that video games played little to no role in school shootings. I can't remember the report title, I'll see if I can track it down. 207.47.184.113 05:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Yeah this interview is full of false claims. What is needed is the following to add to it broken down by factual errors:
The thing about the NIMF claim, is that Target donates money to NIMF directly (Best Buy, you need to follow a chain through a bunch of organizations to follow the money), and yet Target got an awful score in NIMF's annual report card. So it's pretty obvious that donations != special treatment. Jabrwock 17:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Here are those Secret Service & FBI reports on Columbine that Thompson claimed find a causal link between violent games and school violence:
Jabrwock 17:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
How come nothing is mentioned about the "Wikipedia issue?" It certainly is noteworthy as the story was widely circulated and even forced the article to be locked. 69.156.205.72 20:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm sure Wikipedia would not consider Wikipedia as a credible source.
The following comment was left in the article by 68.9.46.93: "someone has um kinda done something to this page, the wikiquote link is gone, and only one eternal link of about twenty still exists. just hoping someone will fix this soon." Mikker ... 09:43, 26 March 2006 (UTC)