This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
During the Byzantine period it was also known as Byzantium.
Byzantium is also more properly the name of a town, which was refounded by Constantine as Nova Roma or Constantinopolis. I'm not sure how or if this should be worked in.
I've just deleted other names than Istanbul. Other names should belong to an independent article. Mmorgil 21:26, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe some jealous person deleted the gorgeous pictures of Istanbul Skyline which were mostly from wowturkey.com....I am talking about the Maslak and Levent pictures..I demand them back.... They are so important for my architecture classes here in George Mason University. Please put them back on..Thank you
P.S: I also included some more movies and games that included Istanbul
There is a big empty space next to the population growth table under "Demographics - Population growth", which doesn't look aesthetical. I suggest the image with the caption "View of Bosphorus Bridge across the Bosphorus from Bebek District of Istanbul" under the same topic be moved up under "Overview" subtopic, and the table relocated to the place of this image's current position. In addition, the image gallery and the list of places under "Places of Interest" topic gives the reader the feeling that it's the end of the article, and again does not look good. Is it possible to at least move the image gallery to the end of the article. Maybe a couple of sentences can be added to the beginning of "Museums, Monuments and Other Buildings" and "Markets, neighborhoods and places", or a single image under each topic to fill the empty spaces to the right of the lists would help keep the reader's interest. Cheers! DeliDumrul 19:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Help! I tried to do it myself but i couldnt position the table. DeliDumrul 14:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
There is high traffic of changes in the main article bur nobody cares to use the discussion page and found a census before making changes. Apart from that, I can't see how the three 1908 images are related to 450 years of Ottoman Istanbul? That part of the article does not mention anything about ethnic groups. Including three of such photos without any other photos of Ottoman Istanbul is a little overkill, isn't it? DeliDumrul 15:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me like it would make sense to consolidate the pages for Constantinople, Byzantium, and Istanbul, which somewhat randomly overlap. Any votes for which one we should choose as the master page? Should the other two be redirects or stubs? -- Alan Millar
This has nothing to do with prejudice against Islam - stop imagining things. The west got over Constantinople a long time ago. This is about trying to make the clearest most comprehensive page possible.
Istanbul as a city incorporates Byzantium & Constantinople, and it would therefore seem much more appropriate to keep 'everything' under Istanbul, with specific minutae related solely to Byzantium/Constantinople under separate entries. 'Byzantium ruins' would be found under Istanbul, Byzantium house styles would be under the separate entry (for example) -- StuartJames 03 Feb 2006
According to a greek friend of mine, Instanbul name is really derived from is stin Poli (the abreviation of Constantinople), which means that its not a myth. Anybody has a reference for the turkish version? Muriel Gottrop
Actually the first 'i' is there because of the dialect difficulties with a double-consonant at the start of a word (as with Arabic - which is one of the major contributors to the Turkish language. StuartJames 00:53, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I have moved this objection of the name etymology here from the article since it was an objection, not an encyclopedic content:
– The Phoenix 07:33, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Constantinople is the area between the Golden Horn and the Sea of Marmara of today's Istanbul - it is just a relatively small part. The Ottomans settled in Istanbul - around the Bosphorus - well before 1453 AD, the year Constantinople fell.
What is the point of mentioning Constantinople in Greek alphabet on the first line of the name of the city? Have you ever seen New York article with New Amsterdam? No, because it is hitorical and must be mentioned within its context: history. I especially I do not unerstand mentioning the name in Greek alphabet. Should we also write it in the first line of the text in Arabic alphabet? No. Regards. Ormands 19:56, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
The article Burgazada just popped up, and while cleaning it up I came across some confusion. Is it " Prince's Islands", "Princess Islands", "Princes' Islands", or something else entirely? Google test leads me to believe it's "Princess Islands". -- Cyrius| ✎ 03:01, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The islands are known generally in Istanbul (in both English & Turkish) as just 'the islands' however the literal translation of the Turkish is indeed 'Prince Islands'. Despite this the colloquial English name used in Istanbul to refer to these islands is "Princes Islands", although where the apostrophe goes (or indeed if there is one) is a matter for debate. Turkish doesn't always distinguish between singular and plural forms and thus it would not be wrong to use 'Princes Islands' - use of an apostrophe would suggest 'Islands of the Prince(s)' which they most certainly were not!! StuartJames 01:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
It is Princes' Islands, and Turkish would be Prens Adalari. A literal translation would be Prenslerin Adalari, however, in Turkish usually when two plural words come together, one of them is used in singular form. In Turkey, these islands are simply known as "The Islands" and the term Prince is not used at all. bahar 15:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm concerned about a lot of material added in early December by Erginer. There's a lot of flowery and inappropriate language, for instance "It is not yet in the power of our science to know the origins of Istanbul. By what miracle it emerged from the depths of the sea like a pearl from its shell ..." and I suspect that it may be a copyright violation - indeed at one point it refers to "as I explain in the few pages of this book". Should we just delete all of this material? rossb 07:01, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
An anonymous user has posted an update to the effect that the (eis tin Poli) εις τήν Πόλι(ν) explanation [is] thought to be a folk etymology. Can he/she or anyone provide a reference for this statement? Otherwise I'm inclined to revert it. rossb 23:34, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Why was this reverted?
"The name Istanbul comes from the late Greek words stin Poli (ςτήν Πόλι), from Classical Greek eis tên Polin (εις τήν Πόλι(ν)) meaning "to/at the City" (the City/Polis being Constantinoupolis). The intermediate form Stamboul was commonly used in the 19th century. Because of the custom of affixing an i before certain words that start with two consonants (as in "Izmir" from Smyrna: in a coincidence of s + m, the s turns to z in pronunciation as has been attested since early Byzantine times and in modern Greek usage), it was pronounced in Turkish Istambul."
This is basically correct (although "Stamboul" looks like a re-Hellenization of the alternative Turkish form Sıtambul). The current version now leaves out the intermediate stage ςτήν Πόλι, and so is less accurate.
I always heard the εἰς τὴν πόλιν etymology during my studies of ancient Greek. And insofar as I can read the Greek & Turkish Wikipedia entries (not very much), both mention this derivation. So the first sentence of the English article still needs correcting. Someone who's comfortable with Unicode issues should go ahead & do it. -- Adamgarrigus 15:22, 2005 Jun 16 (UTC)
I saw this discussion here and needed to paste again.Note that me and my professors are Turkish so i think im being pretty objective here."Islambol is just a myth about where the name came from but researches show that "including the professors in my school" say that name of istanbul came from Eis tin poli,which means to the city in greek.the galata quarter,which is right at the north of the historic peninsula has always been the largest residential area specially for the greek inhabitants of the city because the historic peninsula was reserved for the sultan. Thats why the old istanbul was a passage way "to the city" which turned into istanbul in hundreds of years.Also there is no documents about the city being called islambol throughout the history." -metb82
It was called by various people's
Istanbul, Islambol, Kushta, Gosdantnubolis, Tsarigrad, Rumiyya al-kubra, New Rome, New Jerusalem, the eye of the world, the Refuge of the Universe, the Gate of Hapiness, Pay-i-Taht...
City of the World's Desire, 1453-1924 by Phillip Mansel Introduction
When was the Asian shore of the Bosphorus included in the city? 1930? In any case the article should say. Septentrionalis 18:15, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Why not a regular "I?" Does "İ" change the pronunciation? Why, if it's usually written in Arabic letters, is it written in an altered form of Roman letters? Citizen Premier 01:02, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
In the Turkish alphabet, the "İ" (or "i") makes an "ee" sound (as in the word "see), whereas the "I" (or "ı") makes an "ih" sound (as in the word "it"). Turkey uses a modified Roman alphabet. Most Turks can't read or speak Arabic anymore. - Cybjorg 05:11, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
"Most Turks" is a wrong say. Should be "Any Turk". No one in Turkey don't use/know Arabic. Ottomans used to Speak Turkish but used Arabic-like alphabet.
Well then, that would mean that people in Turkey say "Eestanbul." I suppose we need a pronunciation note at the beginning of the article. Citizen Premier 05:28, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
That's what they say, alright, but it's more of a slur between "ee" and "i." - Cybjorg 11:35, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
You know, English isn't the only language on earth. Would you be so kind to allow our neighbours choose their own alphabet and pronounciation?
By the way, pronounce of the letter I ı in Turkish is same with the letter õ in Estonian or (bli) letter in Russian.
'İ' is a letter of the Turkish alphabet letter, and I think the English Wikipedia should use 'I' for Istanbul. Bahar 15:52, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
The English alphabet actually uses both. The turkish i for our lowercase and the turkish I for our uppercase. I guess we're keeping it the way it is, but it's really wrong in any language. cathenryinc
Question: why do the old mosque minarates in Istanbul survive each earthquake while modern buildings turn into mush? Is there an old Greek myth that explains this? Does it signify anything? Do Greek myths ever explain anything? Have we gone to the moon yet? why is the sky blue? what is on your mind?
in answer to ur question, it is because those buildings were made with the utmost care, whereas most modern residential buildings were made by corrupt wankers who dont give a damn about the thousands of people residing in buildings that are certain to collapse as soon as any tremor occurs. hope that helps.
User:Derek.cashman wants to change, and thinks, that all “Sister cities” lists in articles should be converted/changed to “paragraph” form. I don’t want to. Can you imagine a lists of 26 sister cities, like for Istanbul, and trying to read it in paragraph form? Please read my opinion and vote. WikiDon 04:07, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Someone suggested the following information on Wikipedia:Articles for creation. It may be useful in this article:
Islambol
The name of the capital of Turkey named by the Ottoman Turks from 1453 right upto the beginning of the twentieth century. Islambol means (Islam Bound). Bol in Turkish means "a lot of" so Islambol meant "the city with a lot of Islam".
Currently now known to europeans as Istanbul, this is its former historical name.
-- Creidieki 00:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I think Istanbul is also a sister city with Isfahan (city). You might wanna add that.-- Zereshk 00:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
can someone move the page back to İstanbul? sorry about that. it was a mistake. -- Khoikhoi 01:22, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Istanbul → İstanbul – Most Wikipedia articles about Turkish cities use proper accent marks (such as İzmir, Ağrı, Çanakkale, and İstanbul Province). This move is to remain consistent. Besdies, this page was already at İstanbul until it was moved on the 9th. -- Khoikhoi 06:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
The history of Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium appears twice and is not identical. This duplication should be prevented. Andreas 21:48, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
What about this idea: (A) Have one article with a name like "History of Byzantium-Constantinople-Istanbul" giving a diachronic overview, from the founding of Byzantium till now, and referring back for more detail to (the history sections of) the separate pages for the three subsequent incarnations of this persistent city. (B) Then prune (the history parts of) the separate pages for B, C & I so as to focus for each on that specific period, referring to the consolidated "History of B-C-I" page for more. If this idea meets with universal acclaim, I might some day (but not any time soon) execute it. Lambiam 09:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
This is a trivial point in all the discussion of Greek spelling, but They Might Be Giants did not write "Istanbul Not Constantinople" -- It was written by an Irish fellow named Jimmy Kennedy and Nat Simon and first recorded by the Four Lads in 1953.
I think placing the article at İstanbul is a bit of a problem, since the article itself says the English form is Istanbul, with no dot, and this is how the city is mentioned throughout. I think it's safe to say that the English version of the name is Istanbul, without the dot. No-one in English ever writes the dot on, and that's because the city now has a well-established English name - Istanbul, just like Bucureşti has "Bucharest". The Turkish "İ" is pronounced like the English "i" in "sit" ( Close front unrounded vowel). The I-with-no-dot is a close back unrounded vowel. Thanks, Ronline ✉ 10:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
As an encyclopedia, you (collectively, the authors) should be educating us the reader as to the correct spelling and pronunciation of these places, so it is good to have the above discussion, but more prominantly in the main article- by all means have both spellings, clarify to all of us how we should be saying the names of places- even if we never use it we will be wiser and more understanding to other peoples if we learn their language.
Although the wikipedia-wide discussion about the appropriate terminology for a placename should probably be discussed elsewhere, Istanbul (no i) is the general form in 'international' maps, although there is certainly a growing Turkish movement for 'non-anglification' of Turkish which greatly prefers it to be written with the dot over the capital as in 'İ' (and yes, I'm writing this on a Turkish keyboard). Izmir (no dot) is internationally recognized, however Çanakkale and Ağrı (Canakkale and Agri) are not. Perhaps placenames should include a section 'National Spelling and Pronounciation' ?? whilst leaving the title as the 'generally accepted' spelling? StuartJames 01:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
During the Byzantine period it was also known as Byzantium.
Byzantium is also more properly the name of a town, which was refounded by Constantine as Nova Roma or Constantinopolis. I'm not sure how or if this should be worked in.
I've just deleted other names than Istanbul. Other names should belong to an independent article. Mmorgil 21:26, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe some jealous person deleted the gorgeous pictures of Istanbul Skyline which were mostly from wowturkey.com....I am talking about the Maslak and Levent pictures..I demand them back.... They are so important for my architecture classes here in George Mason University. Please put them back on..Thank you
P.S: I also included some more movies and games that included Istanbul
There is a big empty space next to the population growth table under "Demographics - Population growth", which doesn't look aesthetical. I suggest the image with the caption "View of Bosphorus Bridge across the Bosphorus from Bebek District of Istanbul" under the same topic be moved up under "Overview" subtopic, and the table relocated to the place of this image's current position. In addition, the image gallery and the list of places under "Places of Interest" topic gives the reader the feeling that it's the end of the article, and again does not look good. Is it possible to at least move the image gallery to the end of the article. Maybe a couple of sentences can be added to the beginning of "Museums, Monuments and Other Buildings" and "Markets, neighborhoods and places", or a single image under each topic to fill the empty spaces to the right of the lists would help keep the reader's interest. Cheers! DeliDumrul 19:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Help! I tried to do it myself but i couldnt position the table. DeliDumrul 14:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
There is high traffic of changes in the main article bur nobody cares to use the discussion page and found a census before making changes. Apart from that, I can't see how the three 1908 images are related to 450 years of Ottoman Istanbul? That part of the article does not mention anything about ethnic groups. Including three of such photos without any other photos of Ottoman Istanbul is a little overkill, isn't it? DeliDumrul 15:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me like it would make sense to consolidate the pages for Constantinople, Byzantium, and Istanbul, which somewhat randomly overlap. Any votes for which one we should choose as the master page? Should the other two be redirects or stubs? -- Alan Millar
This has nothing to do with prejudice against Islam - stop imagining things. The west got over Constantinople a long time ago. This is about trying to make the clearest most comprehensive page possible.
Istanbul as a city incorporates Byzantium & Constantinople, and it would therefore seem much more appropriate to keep 'everything' under Istanbul, with specific minutae related solely to Byzantium/Constantinople under separate entries. 'Byzantium ruins' would be found under Istanbul, Byzantium house styles would be under the separate entry (for example) -- StuartJames 03 Feb 2006
According to a greek friend of mine, Instanbul name is really derived from is stin Poli (the abreviation of Constantinople), which means that its not a myth. Anybody has a reference for the turkish version? Muriel Gottrop
Actually the first 'i' is there because of the dialect difficulties with a double-consonant at the start of a word (as with Arabic - which is one of the major contributors to the Turkish language. StuartJames 00:53, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I have moved this objection of the name etymology here from the article since it was an objection, not an encyclopedic content:
– The Phoenix 07:33, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Constantinople is the area between the Golden Horn and the Sea of Marmara of today's Istanbul - it is just a relatively small part. The Ottomans settled in Istanbul - around the Bosphorus - well before 1453 AD, the year Constantinople fell.
What is the point of mentioning Constantinople in Greek alphabet on the first line of the name of the city? Have you ever seen New York article with New Amsterdam? No, because it is hitorical and must be mentioned within its context: history. I especially I do not unerstand mentioning the name in Greek alphabet. Should we also write it in the first line of the text in Arabic alphabet? No. Regards. Ormands 19:56, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
The article Burgazada just popped up, and while cleaning it up I came across some confusion. Is it " Prince's Islands", "Princess Islands", "Princes' Islands", or something else entirely? Google test leads me to believe it's "Princess Islands". -- Cyrius| ✎ 03:01, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The islands are known generally in Istanbul (in both English & Turkish) as just 'the islands' however the literal translation of the Turkish is indeed 'Prince Islands'. Despite this the colloquial English name used in Istanbul to refer to these islands is "Princes Islands", although where the apostrophe goes (or indeed if there is one) is a matter for debate. Turkish doesn't always distinguish between singular and plural forms and thus it would not be wrong to use 'Princes Islands' - use of an apostrophe would suggest 'Islands of the Prince(s)' which they most certainly were not!! StuartJames 01:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
It is Princes' Islands, and Turkish would be Prens Adalari. A literal translation would be Prenslerin Adalari, however, in Turkish usually when two plural words come together, one of them is used in singular form. In Turkey, these islands are simply known as "The Islands" and the term Prince is not used at all. bahar 15:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm concerned about a lot of material added in early December by Erginer. There's a lot of flowery and inappropriate language, for instance "It is not yet in the power of our science to know the origins of Istanbul. By what miracle it emerged from the depths of the sea like a pearl from its shell ..." and I suspect that it may be a copyright violation - indeed at one point it refers to "as I explain in the few pages of this book". Should we just delete all of this material? rossb 07:01, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
An anonymous user has posted an update to the effect that the (eis tin Poli) εις τήν Πόλι(ν) explanation [is] thought to be a folk etymology. Can he/she or anyone provide a reference for this statement? Otherwise I'm inclined to revert it. rossb 23:34, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Why was this reverted?
"The name Istanbul comes from the late Greek words stin Poli (ςτήν Πόλι), from Classical Greek eis tên Polin (εις τήν Πόλι(ν)) meaning "to/at the City" (the City/Polis being Constantinoupolis). The intermediate form Stamboul was commonly used in the 19th century. Because of the custom of affixing an i before certain words that start with two consonants (as in "Izmir" from Smyrna: in a coincidence of s + m, the s turns to z in pronunciation as has been attested since early Byzantine times and in modern Greek usage), it was pronounced in Turkish Istambul."
This is basically correct (although "Stamboul" looks like a re-Hellenization of the alternative Turkish form Sıtambul). The current version now leaves out the intermediate stage ςτήν Πόλι, and so is less accurate.
I always heard the εἰς τὴν πόλιν etymology during my studies of ancient Greek. And insofar as I can read the Greek & Turkish Wikipedia entries (not very much), both mention this derivation. So the first sentence of the English article still needs correcting. Someone who's comfortable with Unicode issues should go ahead & do it. -- Adamgarrigus 15:22, 2005 Jun 16 (UTC)
I saw this discussion here and needed to paste again.Note that me and my professors are Turkish so i think im being pretty objective here."Islambol is just a myth about where the name came from but researches show that "including the professors in my school" say that name of istanbul came from Eis tin poli,which means to the city in greek.the galata quarter,which is right at the north of the historic peninsula has always been the largest residential area specially for the greek inhabitants of the city because the historic peninsula was reserved for the sultan. Thats why the old istanbul was a passage way "to the city" which turned into istanbul in hundreds of years.Also there is no documents about the city being called islambol throughout the history." -metb82
It was called by various people's
Istanbul, Islambol, Kushta, Gosdantnubolis, Tsarigrad, Rumiyya al-kubra, New Rome, New Jerusalem, the eye of the world, the Refuge of the Universe, the Gate of Hapiness, Pay-i-Taht...
City of the World's Desire, 1453-1924 by Phillip Mansel Introduction
When was the Asian shore of the Bosphorus included in the city? 1930? In any case the article should say. Septentrionalis 18:15, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Why not a regular "I?" Does "İ" change the pronunciation? Why, if it's usually written in Arabic letters, is it written in an altered form of Roman letters? Citizen Premier 01:02, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
In the Turkish alphabet, the "İ" (or "i") makes an "ee" sound (as in the word "see), whereas the "I" (or "ı") makes an "ih" sound (as in the word "it"). Turkey uses a modified Roman alphabet. Most Turks can't read or speak Arabic anymore. - Cybjorg 05:11, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
"Most Turks" is a wrong say. Should be "Any Turk". No one in Turkey don't use/know Arabic. Ottomans used to Speak Turkish but used Arabic-like alphabet.
Well then, that would mean that people in Turkey say "Eestanbul." I suppose we need a pronunciation note at the beginning of the article. Citizen Premier 05:28, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
That's what they say, alright, but it's more of a slur between "ee" and "i." - Cybjorg 11:35, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
You know, English isn't the only language on earth. Would you be so kind to allow our neighbours choose their own alphabet and pronounciation?
By the way, pronounce of the letter I ı in Turkish is same with the letter õ in Estonian or (bli) letter in Russian.
'İ' is a letter of the Turkish alphabet letter, and I think the English Wikipedia should use 'I' for Istanbul. Bahar 15:52, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
The English alphabet actually uses both. The turkish i for our lowercase and the turkish I for our uppercase. I guess we're keeping it the way it is, but it's really wrong in any language. cathenryinc
Question: why do the old mosque minarates in Istanbul survive each earthquake while modern buildings turn into mush? Is there an old Greek myth that explains this? Does it signify anything? Do Greek myths ever explain anything? Have we gone to the moon yet? why is the sky blue? what is on your mind?
in answer to ur question, it is because those buildings were made with the utmost care, whereas most modern residential buildings were made by corrupt wankers who dont give a damn about the thousands of people residing in buildings that are certain to collapse as soon as any tremor occurs. hope that helps.
User:Derek.cashman wants to change, and thinks, that all “Sister cities” lists in articles should be converted/changed to “paragraph” form. I don’t want to. Can you imagine a lists of 26 sister cities, like for Istanbul, and trying to read it in paragraph form? Please read my opinion and vote. WikiDon 04:07, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Someone suggested the following information on Wikipedia:Articles for creation. It may be useful in this article:
Islambol
The name of the capital of Turkey named by the Ottoman Turks from 1453 right upto the beginning of the twentieth century. Islambol means (Islam Bound). Bol in Turkish means "a lot of" so Islambol meant "the city with a lot of Islam".
Currently now known to europeans as Istanbul, this is its former historical name.
-- Creidieki 00:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I think Istanbul is also a sister city with Isfahan (city). You might wanna add that.-- Zereshk 00:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
can someone move the page back to İstanbul? sorry about that. it was a mistake. -- Khoikhoi 01:22, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Istanbul → İstanbul – Most Wikipedia articles about Turkish cities use proper accent marks (such as İzmir, Ağrı, Çanakkale, and İstanbul Province). This move is to remain consistent. Besdies, this page was already at İstanbul until it was moved on the 9th. -- Khoikhoi 06:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
The history of Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium appears twice and is not identical. This duplication should be prevented. Andreas 21:48, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
What about this idea: (A) Have one article with a name like "History of Byzantium-Constantinople-Istanbul" giving a diachronic overview, from the founding of Byzantium till now, and referring back for more detail to (the history sections of) the separate pages for the three subsequent incarnations of this persistent city. (B) Then prune (the history parts of) the separate pages for B, C & I so as to focus for each on that specific period, referring to the consolidated "History of B-C-I" page for more. If this idea meets with universal acclaim, I might some day (but not any time soon) execute it. Lambiam 09:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
This is a trivial point in all the discussion of Greek spelling, but They Might Be Giants did not write "Istanbul Not Constantinople" -- It was written by an Irish fellow named Jimmy Kennedy and Nat Simon and first recorded by the Four Lads in 1953.
I think placing the article at İstanbul is a bit of a problem, since the article itself says the English form is Istanbul, with no dot, and this is how the city is mentioned throughout. I think it's safe to say that the English version of the name is Istanbul, without the dot. No-one in English ever writes the dot on, and that's because the city now has a well-established English name - Istanbul, just like Bucureşti has "Bucharest". The Turkish "İ" is pronounced like the English "i" in "sit" ( Close front unrounded vowel). The I-with-no-dot is a close back unrounded vowel. Thanks, Ronline ✉ 10:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
As an encyclopedia, you (collectively, the authors) should be educating us the reader as to the correct spelling and pronunciation of these places, so it is good to have the above discussion, but more prominantly in the main article- by all means have both spellings, clarify to all of us how we should be saying the names of places- even if we never use it we will be wiser and more understanding to other peoples if we learn their language.
Although the wikipedia-wide discussion about the appropriate terminology for a placename should probably be discussed elsewhere, Istanbul (no i) is the general form in 'international' maps, although there is certainly a growing Turkish movement for 'non-anglification' of Turkish which greatly prefers it to be written with the dot over the capital as in 'İ' (and yes, I'm writing this on a Turkish keyboard). Izmir (no dot) is internationally recognized, however Çanakkale and Ağrı (Canakkale and Agri) are not. Perhaps placenames should include a section 'National Spelling and Pronounciation' ?? whilst leaving the title as the 'generally accepted' spelling? StuartJames 01:26, 3 February 2006 (UTC)