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This history is severely flawed. It needs to be reviewed by historians. It is propaganda to suggest Jews did not originate in Israel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8C3:8601:EAA0:C84E:3134:C166:59F7 ( talk) 14:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
In Jewish religion as well as several strands of historiography, the assumption of continuity or even identity is made between Israelites and Jews. Terms like "Nation/People of Israel" (caps not always a must) can't currently be linked to any Wik. article, because neither Israelites, Jews, or Israelis covers more than part of the intended meaning. Arminden ( talk) 09:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
That looks like a major probable misunderstanding of the study results.
This sentence now says that MOST Samaritans of today are descendants of the ancient priestly class. I'm quite sure that it meant to say that only Samaritan priestly families share that heritage - and are paternally related to Jewish families called Cohen. However, if the current meaning is indeed the correct interpretation of the study, that would be beyond sensational and would require ample elaboration.
If most Samaritans can be "traced back to a common ancestor [among] the paternally inherited Israelite high priesthood" and "the principal components analysis suggested a common ancestry of [all] Samaritan and [all] Jewish patrilineages", that places most Samaritans and Jews (and not just Sam. priests & Jewish Cohen families) in the same group of patrilinear descendants from ancient Cohanim.
The ref:
Arminden ( talk) 09:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi CycoMa1. It is not enough to drop such a tag w/o explaining within the tag or on the talk-page what you mean. It's too much to expect from fellow editors to go through 5 (!) different sources to figure out what you might be protesting against, or at least doubting. So please elaborate, or else the tag must go. Thank you. Arminden ( talk) 09:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi CycoMa1. Now that I've went into it myself, I think I know what you meant.
The passage copied one topic above, claiming that there's a consensus about "Israelites branching out from the Canaanites through the development of Yahwism", doesn't convince me at all. It's indeed a very doubtful synthesis (OR). What came first, what cultural aspect, is most likely A) not at all clear, and B) not a matter of consensus, let alone such a categorical one. Unless one goes with some form of biblical literalism, I see no reason to believe that a new pantheon has preceded other transformations. I also cannot see how the religious primacy could be proven based on what we have.
The oversourced passage is actually undersourced, as the quoted passages don't even touch on the branching-off of Israelite religion from Canaanite religion.
It's probably a classical chicken-and-egg dilemma. Unless quotes from RS specifically about this are presented, the passage is beyond dubious. I'll put your tag back in, with a short explanation. Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 23:40, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Israelites article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
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level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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Reporting errors |
This history is severely flawed. It needs to be reviewed by historians. It is propaganda to suggest Jews did not originate in Israel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8C3:8601:EAA0:C84E:3134:C166:59F7 ( talk) 14:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
In Jewish religion as well as several strands of historiography, the assumption of continuity or even identity is made between Israelites and Jews. Terms like "Nation/People of Israel" (caps not always a must) can't currently be linked to any Wik. article, because neither Israelites, Jews, or Israelis covers more than part of the intended meaning. Arminden ( talk) 09:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
That looks like a major probable misunderstanding of the study results.
This sentence now says that MOST Samaritans of today are descendants of the ancient priestly class. I'm quite sure that it meant to say that only Samaritan priestly families share that heritage - and are paternally related to Jewish families called Cohen. However, if the current meaning is indeed the correct interpretation of the study, that would be beyond sensational and would require ample elaboration.
If most Samaritans can be "traced back to a common ancestor [among] the paternally inherited Israelite high priesthood" and "the principal components analysis suggested a common ancestry of [all] Samaritan and [all] Jewish patrilineages", that places most Samaritans and Jews (and not just Sam. priests & Jewish Cohen families) in the same group of patrilinear descendants from ancient Cohanim.
The ref:
Arminden ( talk) 09:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi CycoMa1. It is not enough to drop such a tag w/o explaining within the tag or on the talk-page what you mean. It's too much to expect from fellow editors to go through 5 (!) different sources to figure out what you might be protesting against, or at least doubting. So please elaborate, or else the tag must go. Thank you. Arminden ( talk) 09:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi CycoMa1. Now that I've went into it myself, I think I know what you meant.
The passage copied one topic above, claiming that there's a consensus about "Israelites branching out from the Canaanites through the development of Yahwism", doesn't convince me at all. It's indeed a very doubtful synthesis (OR). What came first, what cultural aspect, is most likely A) not at all clear, and B) not a matter of consensus, let alone such a categorical one. Unless one goes with some form of biblical literalism, I see no reason to believe that a new pantheon has preceded other transformations. I also cannot see how the religious primacy could be proven based on what we have.
The oversourced passage is actually undersourced, as the quoted passages don't even touch on the branching-off of Israelite religion from Canaanite religion.
It's probably a classical chicken-and-egg dilemma. Unless quotes from RS specifically about this are presented, the passage is beyond dubious. I'll put your tag back in, with a short explanation. Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 23:40, 4 May 2024 (UTC)