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This article is written very haphazardly, starting out by saying that the thing wasn't medieval only much later to say that in fact it was. This needs to be cleaned up. 174.91.7.232 ( talk) 12:42, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
There should be a Killbox disambiguation page instead of a redirect. As the person above stated, there is a band named Killbox, and I ended up here looking for a wiki page about Killbox, or Pocket Killbox, the program. Someone needs to fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.103.55.252 ( talk) 16:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Article states, "The Iron Maiden is often associated with the Middle Ages, but in fact was not invented until the 19th century.[1] No account of the iron maiden has been found earlier than 1793 ...".
If an account exists of the device's existence in 1793, then it must have been invented prior to that time. Either that or the account is false. DieSwartzPunkt ( talk) 19:23, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
I added a number of citations, did some reorganization of the article, but there are still some major problems I could not find a fix for. First, the timeline of the history of the Iron Maiden is very confusing. Second, the bit about "The original 17th century iron maidens may have been constructed as probable misinterpretation of a medieval Schandmantel" needs to be sourced. I did a web search on "Iron Maiden" and "Schandmantel" and found only stuff in German, or stuff obviously sourced from this Wikipedia article. If someone who speaks German happens upon this page, please consider finding a source! Carl Henderson ( talk) 03:40, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
The claim that there are no references to iron-maiden devices does not seem to be true. Valerius Maximus, writing in the first century AD, wrote: "The Carthaginians cut off Atilius Regulus’ eyelids, shut him in a machine in which sharp points stood out from all angles, and killed him from lack of sleep and extension of pain..." ( Valerius Maximus, Factorum et dictorum memorabilium, 9.2.ext.1). See Crucifixion in Antiquity 24.91.75.78 ( talk) 01:06, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
The Iron Maiden was never used in Medieval Europe or by any Catholic institution. It was invented after the Reformation in Protestant Germany. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.215.249.197 ( talk) 15:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. Clear consensus that this is the primary topic of the lower-cased variant of the term. Cúchullain t/ c 16:45, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
– The device is in lower case, and the band Iron Maiden named themselves after it. If it was the band that needed disambiguating then maybe it could be argued that capital letters weren't enough for that, but this is in lower case, so surely (lack of) capitals can suffice here. Unreal7 ( talk) 15:47, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
{{about|the torture device}}
, which, after the move, will render as:
{{about|the torture device|the band|Iron Maiden|other uses|Iron maiden (disambiguation)}}
, which will render as:
These other devices/implements don't seem to be explained anywhere. Is it worth documenting them perhaps? Presumably on another page, or the main page for this. If so, does anyone or any web page have this information? 2A02:C7D:CA00:B200:F017:6C50:F1D3:D62D ( talk) 17:44, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
It seems as if this article has been confusing people for over 4 years! Someone please fix the history of this device, as it is incredibly confusing. Apparently there are 2 different origins for the Iron Maiden. From Siebenkees' Wiki page: "Siebenkees studied theology, philosophy, and philology at University of Altdorf. In 1791 he became associate professor of philosophy there, and a full professor of languages in 1795. He also taught archeology. It has been suggested that he was responsible for the invention of the iron maiden during this period." Yet this page states that: "The iron maiden is uniquely a Germanic invention, originated in the town of Nuremberg at some point in the high-middle ages (the period with which it is associated[1]); probably in the 14th century." I'm so confused... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.70.72.75 ( talk) 0:25, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
Since the iron maiden is a fictional torture device, I put that in the intro. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.235.137.101 ( talk) 16:44, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
Iron maidens are popular in media but it's dubious how accurate they are historically. Is there any new research on the topic? The page feels like it can't decide which way to lean. 2A00:EE2:907:FF00:B036:506E:F515:986 ( talk) 01:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
If a thing is imaged by someone it has certainly been created or attempted. The creation of something so intricate would be costly. In another direction. Think of this device as an iron chair except you must remain standing. Encased within a upright coffin of spikes. A rather slow torture as one must stand or lean against the spikes when your strength fails and days pass. Maddening. Having the ability to end the suffering whilst suffering the inability to perform it. 2601:5C2:4380:AC40:A0B6:E85D:9792:50C8 ( talk) 07:19, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
The article states that there is no mention of the iron maiden prior to the 18th century, yet the reference (footnote 1) says 19th century. An earlier discussion thread mentions the year 1793, yet that doesn't seem to be in the article anymore. So, to make the statement match the footnote, I'm going to change that to "19th century" till someone can find a reference backing up the 18th-century claim. Mpaniello ( talk) 13:49, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Bran Stoker in ‘The Squaw’ 1893 gives an account of the Nuremberg Iron Maiden. Though framed as a fictional short story it gives the impression of having been based on an actual visit. The Iron Maiden is described as having a front hinged at the top and being held open by a block and tackle from the ceiling, and therefore closing under its own weight either slowly or when the rope is released (as it is on an American tourist). See https://www.bramstoker.org/pdf/stories/03guest/03squaw.pdf 80.189.11.222 ( talk) 23:06, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Iron maiden article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written very haphazardly, starting out by saying that the thing wasn't medieval only much later to say that in fact it was. This needs to be cleaned up. 174.91.7.232 ( talk) 12:42, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
There should be a Killbox disambiguation page instead of a redirect. As the person above stated, there is a band named Killbox, and I ended up here looking for a wiki page about Killbox, or Pocket Killbox, the program. Someone needs to fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.103.55.252 ( talk) 16:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Article states, "The Iron Maiden is often associated with the Middle Ages, but in fact was not invented until the 19th century.[1] No account of the iron maiden has been found earlier than 1793 ...".
If an account exists of the device's existence in 1793, then it must have been invented prior to that time. Either that or the account is false. DieSwartzPunkt ( talk) 19:23, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
I added a number of citations, did some reorganization of the article, but there are still some major problems I could not find a fix for. First, the timeline of the history of the Iron Maiden is very confusing. Second, the bit about "The original 17th century iron maidens may have been constructed as probable misinterpretation of a medieval Schandmantel" needs to be sourced. I did a web search on "Iron Maiden" and "Schandmantel" and found only stuff in German, or stuff obviously sourced from this Wikipedia article. If someone who speaks German happens upon this page, please consider finding a source! Carl Henderson ( talk) 03:40, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
The claim that there are no references to iron-maiden devices does not seem to be true. Valerius Maximus, writing in the first century AD, wrote: "The Carthaginians cut off Atilius Regulus’ eyelids, shut him in a machine in which sharp points stood out from all angles, and killed him from lack of sleep and extension of pain..." ( Valerius Maximus, Factorum et dictorum memorabilium, 9.2.ext.1). See Crucifixion in Antiquity 24.91.75.78 ( talk) 01:06, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
The Iron Maiden was never used in Medieval Europe or by any Catholic institution. It was invented after the Reformation in Protestant Germany. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.215.249.197 ( talk) 15:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. Clear consensus that this is the primary topic of the lower-cased variant of the term. Cúchullain t/ c 16:45, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
– The device is in lower case, and the band Iron Maiden named themselves after it. If it was the band that needed disambiguating then maybe it could be argued that capital letters weren't enough for that, but this is in lower case, so surely (lack of) capitals can suffice here. Unreal7 ( talk) 15:47, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
{{about|the torture device}}
, which, after the move, will render as:
{{about|the torture device|the band|Iron Maiden|other uses|Iron maiden (disambiguation)}}
, which will render as:
These other devices/implements don't seem to be explained anywhere. Is it worth documenting them perhaps? Presumably on another page, or the main page for this. If so, does anyone or any web page have this information? 2A02:C7D:CA00:B200:F017:6C50:F1D3:D62D ( talk) 17:44, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
It seems as if this article has been confusing people for over 4 years! Someone please fix the history of this device, as it is incredibly confusing. Apparently there are 2 different origins for the Iron Maiden. From Siebenkees' Wiki page: "Siebenkees studied theology, philosophy, and philology at University of Altdorf. In 1791 he became associate professor of philosophy there, and a full professor of languages in 1795. He also taught archeology. It has been suggested that he was responsible for the invention of the iron maiden during this period." Yet this page states that: "The iron maiden is uniquely a Germanic invention, originated in the town of Nuremberg at some point in the high-middle ages (the period with which it is associated[1]); probably in the 14th century." I'm so confused... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.70.72.75 ( talk) 0:25, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
Since the iron maiden is a fictional torture device, I put that in the intro. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.235.137.101 ( talk) 16:44, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
Iron maidens are popular in media but it's dubious how accurate they are historically. Is there any new research on the topic? The page feels like it can't decide which way to lean. 2A00:EE2:907:FF00:B036:506E:F515:986 ( talk) 01:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
If a thing is imaged by someone it has certainly been created or attempted. The creation of something so intricate would be costly. In another direction. Think of this device as an iron chair except you must remain standing. Encased within a upright coffin of spikes. A rather slow torture as one must stand or lean against the spikes when your strength fails and days pass. Maddening. Having the ability to end the suffering whilst suffering the inability to perform it. 2601:5C2:4380:AC40:A0B6:E85D:9792:50C8 ( talk) 07:19, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
The article states that there is no mention of the iron maiden prior to the 18th century, yet the reference (footnote 1) says 19th century. An earlier discussion thread mentions the year 1793, yet that doesn't seem to be in the article anymore. So, to make the statement match the footnote, I'm going to change that to "19th century" till someone can find a reference backing up the 18th-century claim. Mpaniello ( talk) 13:49, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Bran Stoker in ‘The Squaw’ 1893 gives an account of the Nuremberg Iron Maiden. Though framed as a fictional short story it gives the impression of having been based on an actual visit. The Iron Maiden is described as having a front hinged at the top and being held open by a block and tackle from the ceiling, and therefore closing under its own weight either slowly or when the rope is released (as it is on an American tourist). See https://www.bramstoker.org/pdf/stories/03guest/03squaw.pdf 80.189.11.222 ( talk) 23:06, 1 April 2024 (UTC)