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Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
This article has a serious problem with unsourced and inaccurate statements. There was NO real difficulty exporting beer to the East: contemporary evidence shows everything from small beer to porter surviving the journey. There were NO "tremendous efforts" by British breers to solve this non-existent problem. There is NO evidence George Hodgson, a small-time brewer(1), actually invented IPA, or deliberately designed a recipe for a beer to survive the journey to India. There is NO evidence India was a "very tempting" market for British brewers before the 1820s: if it had been, a small brewer such as Hodgson would not have been able to build up a virtual monopoly. The beer exported to Russia was NOT called "Imperial Pale Ale", it was either Burton Ale if it was pale ale from Burton upon Trent, or Imperial Stout if it was a strong stout from London. It is NOT true that "The national IPA was less hopped compared to the export version, in order to speed up the fermentation" - by "national" IPA (is this an Indian English expression?) I assume the writer means IPA sold in Britain. If this was less-hopped, it was to speed up maturation, not fermentation.
Oh, and the East Indiamen ships did NOT travel "along the coast of Africa", they went via Madeira, Rio de Janeiro in Brazil and St Helena to get round the Cape (see Antony Wild, The East India Company, 1999)
For a more accurate version of the origins of IPA see Martyn Cornell, Beer: The Story of the Pint, 2003, pp132-139.
Zythophile ( talk) 06:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
(1) HA Monckton, A History of English Ale and Beer, 1966, p212; Peter Mathias, The Brewing Industry in England 1700-1830, 1959, pp190-182
Zythophile, perhaps you would like to correct some of the inaccuracies in the article. It's in real need of improvement. Patto1ro ( talk) 11:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Zythophile that the history section is in need of improvement. A lot of it is common lore about IPA contained here, but none of it is cited. For reasons that i don't really understand, common lore on IPA is not accurate, and this article should correct rather than reinforce those ideas. One of the pieces of common lore that this article is aggravating is the idea that there was pale ale and then someone super charged it for export to india. But my understanding is that the first Pale Ale was, essentially, of the sort that was exported to India. Anyway, I have a few sources at home on this subject and will tighten up the history section once I have reviewed those. philosofool ( talk) 16:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Here are two good sources for the history, both with sources listed:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/search/label/IPA
Mikebe ( talk) 18:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
I have significantly revised the history section of this article. Many readers will notice that it is substantially shorter than it was previously. There are several reasons for this:
This history section need not be as short as it is. If a piece of information was removed that you feel was very important, please edit, and please add information not previously present. However, bear in mind two points:
( talk) 20:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
I recently undid a revision that suggested that other beers could not be successfully exported to India. It was uncited and I have found no reliable source that verifies the claim, which seems mostly to have evolved form legends printed on brewpub menus. If there is a reliable source for claims about IPA's unique ability to survive exportation to india, let's talk about it here. philosofool ( talk) 00:49, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
A user recently added a reference to John Palmer's work "how to brew" regarding the history of IPA and the use of hops specifically to aid in the preservation of IPA in the voyage to India. However, in the most recent addition of Palmer's work, he does not say that the story is true, but reports that it is "common mythos." (p. 217) I removed the claim and the reference, since several sources (mentioned in the article) either disagree or make no mention of this common tale. philosofool ( talk) 23:18, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
This article talk page was automatically added with {{ WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot ( talk) 04:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
OK, let's hash this out here now, just so it's on record. What should or shouldn't be in the article regarding IBU superlatives? What distinctions should be regarded (calculated from hop schedule? measured by hplc or other means? anything beyond limits of perception)? I ask this now, not only because it's being disputed, but also because doubtless it will be disputed again. Dunkelweizen ( talk) 22:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Do you have any source other than BA, which lists its actual IBU at 112? A 200 IBU beer is huge and misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.247.103.165 ( talk) 23:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm gonna say a bunch of stuff that's in a really authoritative voice, rather than trying quality it. Respond. There're dozens of examples in this article and we need to figure out whether that's really helping our readers.
The use of lots of examples is common in beer pages in wikipedia. This is perceived as informative, but I don't think that it always or even usually is. Some of the problems with examples include:
I think that this article has problems with too many examples, and many of that is subject to the sorts of criticisms above. Remember that the goal of this article is not to implicitly recommend to the readers that they try any particular IPA, nor even that they taste IPA in general: such behavior is POV, as it implicitly suggests that certain courses of action are good. Selecting a favorite IPA to tell the reader about is often inappropriate, even if what you say about it is true.
In case you're wondering how I got on this topic: I'm a pretty knowledgeable guy when it comes to things beer and there are several example in this article that didn't help me understand the topic in the slightest. philosofool ( talk) 22:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Writer/blogger Martyn Cornell posted some suggestions about this article on one of his posts' comment pages:
Well, it’s better now than it was, but there are still misunderstandings. Terry Foster’s book is - well - not the most accurate source. There’s no evidence I know of to say when Hodgson first began selling beer for export to India, and he wasn’t doing it himself anyway, it was the independent East India Company ship’s captains who bought the beer off him. Hodgson’s beer only had about half the Indian beer trade in 1800. The “exact reasons” why the Burton brewers got into the India trade aren’t a mystery at all - see both my Beer: the Story of the Pint and Amber Gold and Black for what happened. I don’t know where the idea that “many brewers dropped the term “India” in the late 19th century” comes from - “India Pale Ale” continued to be a part of the line-up of pale bitter ales for many, perhaps most brewers. “Hodgson’s style of brewing is probably responsible for term India Pale Ale.” - no - it was called India Pale Ale because it was “pale ale as prepared for India”. “His beer was lower in alcohol than most beer brewed in his day” - no it wasn’t, it was probably around or slightly higher than the average. “… a greater proportion of the wort was fermented” - well, it would have been drier than mild ale, but not necessarily drier than aged porter or stout .. “and the beer was strongly hopped.” That’s true, but so were other beers meant to be aged. Hope that’s helpful!
We can do what we want with this, but I thought it might be helpful. Dunkelweizen ( talk) 22:19, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Without objections, I shall link this aticle to the BJCP. BJCP ( talk) 22:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I object. Patto1ro ( talk) 05:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I was hoping for something more substantive, but if you want to take it to a vote we can go that route too. BJCP ( talk) 06:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
WP:!vote. I also object. For the same reasons that BJCP has not been linked to on other beer pages (refer to most of the talk pages that link to BJCP for info on this). This article is about one particular style; other styles don't link to BJCP and shouldn't. There is no reason that a link to BJCP would assist readers of this particular article. -- Karnesky ( talk) 12:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I wanted to point out that, given the recent edits changing all spelling to commonwealth/British style spelling, that because this is an English-style-neutral article, and because the first version was written in American English, the proper style is American English. Please refrain from changing to British style unnecessarily. Shadowjams ( talk) 08:20, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
This article is incredibly incoherent, with the United States section being a serious offender. I'm not knowledgeable enough to rewrite, so hope someone else will soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.197.155.211 ( talk) 07:02, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the entirely inaccurate statement "The October beer of Loren Jennings' Bow Brewery was the world's first India Pale Ale." and replaced it with a sentence stating that George Hodgson was one of the first known named brewers whose beer was exported to India. The rest of the piece then flows on from there. Zythophile ( talk) 23:48, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I know that some breweries have used this term, but I don't think it refers to anything distinct enough to count as a recognizable sub-"style" within the IPA family, as in the present article. How is "Northwest Pale Ale" different from other IPA's brewed with Northwest hops that are just called IPA's or American IPA's. I think this an independent source identifying this style and discussing its characteristics is in order. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.109.160.198 ( talk) 03:52, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
The article states that the commonly repeated statement that IPA derives it's recipe and name from having a long shelf life while being shipped to India around the great horn of Africa.
The source for this myth busting is weak at best, see the footnote:"Myth 4: George Hodgson invented IPA to survive the long trip to India" Ozten ( talk) 23:04, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
"The source for this myth busting is weak at best" As the author of the blog to which that footnote refers (though NOT the person who put that footnote in the article - no primary research in Wikipedia articles, etc), I can assure you that my sources are certainly not "weak", but 15 years' worth of researching 18th and 19th century newspapers, magazines and books. If you have evidence, actual hard primary-account evidence from the period, to back the claim that George Hodgson invented IPA to survive the journey to India, I'd be delighted to see it. Zythophile ( talk) 16:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm surprised to see the beer style articles in such a sad state! I designed a simple sidebar for beer categories here: User:JauntBox/Infobox_beer_styles. I got the style info from Brewing Classic Styles (Zainasheff and Palmer) and the BJCP guidelines. I was a little unclear on what to do for the entire IPA style category values since there's quite a bit of variation from and English IPA to an Imperial IPA. I left them as the global bounds on the category for simplicity (eg. overall IBU from 40-120 whereas an English IPA would have 40-60 IBU) since adding all the detail for larger style categories would probably get overwhelming to the reader. I've never made a component like this before, so what's the procedure for adding it to the article? Do we need to request a beer style infobox? Did I leave out anything or is too much there? JauntBox ( talk) 06:11, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
I and others remember that IPA in the UK used to usually stand for Imperial Pale Ale and only reverted to India Pale Ale in the last 20 years. Imperial Pale Ale redirects to this article which seems to confirm this but there's no mention of this in the article. Does anyone more knowledgeable on the subject than me know anything about this change, whether it's related to "political correctness" or similar or have any citations on this matter? 92.238.190.190 ( talk) 20:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but there never was, historically, a style of beer called "Imperial Pale Ale" or "Imperial IPA", and no British brewer, historically, ever brewed one - the name is completely an invention of the American brewing scene over the past 10 years or so. "IPA" has always stood for "India Pale Ale". And the whole "higher alcohol level to survive the voyage" thing is a myth as well - see eg here. Imperial Stout wasn't brewed strong to survive the journey - it was brewed strong because that's how the Russians liked it. Zythophile ( talk) 16:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I've changed the paragraph to reflect the accepted position that Vinnie at Blind Pig (now Russian River) Brewco began the style. This is supported in the already-existing reference (original poster neglected to read the next sentence of the quote, clearly stating as much). - 24.130.65.122 ( talk) 18:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to start a discussion about the persistent removal of sourced information about American IPAs. This is an important and vital part of the IPA umbrella, and we need to devote space to covering it with reliable sources. Haldraper, could you state some policy-based reasons why the following sourced paragraph should be removed:
East Coast IPAs are distinguished from West Coast IPAs in that the former have a stronger malt presence that balances the intensity of the hops whereas the latter endeavors to foreground the hops more. According to Steve Wagner of the Stone Brewing Company, it is conceivable that this is a corollary of the geographic proximity of West Coast breweries to hop fields in the Pacific Northwest. East Coast breweries rely more on European hops, which have spicier qualities. Sam Calagione of the Dogfish Head Brewery has indicated that East Coast breweries tend to make greater use of specialty malts in their recipes than is common in the west.[18][19][20]
.
Thanks, Skinwalker ( talk) 14:02, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
East Coast IPAs often have a strong malt presence and are distinguished from West Coast IPAs which emphasize hop intensity. This may be due to the greater availability of high alpha acid hops in the Pacific Northwest. East Coast breweries also tend to make greater use of specialty malts in their recipes.[18][19][20]
Confused - The first pic shows the "East India pale ale". The other two show the same thing "East India Pale Ale" & "East India Ale", and the last is a British label for the Australian market "India Pale Ale" Chaosdruid ( talk) 01:17, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
He just kind of appears in this article out of the blue with no introduction or hyperlink. It makes the history kind of confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8:800:6BE:5DD9:11B5:F691:37FF ( talk) 00:23, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
This article has a serious problem with unsourced and inaccurate statements. There was NO real difficulty exporting beer to the East: contemporary evidence shows everything from small beer to porter surviving the journey. There were NO "tremendous efforts" by British breers to solve this non-existent problem. There is NO evidence George Hodgson, a small-time brewer(1), actually invented IPA, or deliberately designed a recipe for a beer to survive the journey to India. There is NO evidence India was a "very tempting" market for British brewers before the 1820s: if it had been, a small brewer such as Hodgson would not have been able to build up a virtual monopoly. The beer exported to Russia was NOT called "Imperial Pale Ale", it was either Burton Ale if it was pale ale from Burton upon Trent, or Imperial Stout if it was a strong stout from London. It is NOT true that "The national IPA was less hopped compared to the export version, in order to speed up the fermentation" - by "national" IPA (is this an Indian English expression?) I assume the writer means IPA sold in Britain. If this was less-hopped, it was to speed up maturation, not fermentation.
Oh, and the East Indiamen ships did NOT travel "along the coast of Africa", they went via Madeira, Rio de Janeiro in Brazil and St Helena to get round the Cape (see Antony Wild, The East India Company, 1999)
For a more accurate version of the origins of IPA see Martyn Cornell, Beer: The Story of the Pint, 2003, pp132-139.
Zythophile ( talk) 06:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
(1) HA Monckton, A History of English Ale and Beer, 1966, p212; Peter Mathias, The Brewing Industry in England 1700-1830, 1959, pp190-182
Zythophile, perhaps you would like to correct some of the inaccuracies in the article. It's in real need of improvement. Patto1ro ( talk) 11:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Zythophile that the history section is in need of improvement. A lot of it is common lore about IPA contained here, but none of it is cited. For reasons that i don't really understand, common lore on IPA is not accurate, and this article should correct rather than reinforce those ideas. One of the pieces of common lore that this article is aggravating is the idea that there was pale ale and then someone super charged it for export to india. But my understanding is that the first Pale Ale was, essentially, of the sort that was exported to India. Anyway, I have a few sources at home on this subject and will tighten up the history section once I have reviewed those. philosofool ( talk) 16:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Here are two good sources for the history, both with sources listed:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/search/label/IPA
Mikebe ( talk) 18:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
I have significantly revised the history section of this article. Many readers will notice that it is substantially shorter than it was previously. There are several reasons for this:
This history section need not be as short as it is. If a piece of information was removed that you feel was very important, please edit, and please add information not previously present. However, bear in mind two points:
( talk) 20:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
I recently undid a revision that suggested that other beers could not be successfully exported to India. It was uncited and I have found no reliable source that verifies the claim, which seems mostly to have evolved form legends printed on brewpub menus. If there is a reliable source for claims about IPA's unique ability to survive exportation to india, let's talk about it here. philosofool ( talk) 00:49, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
A user recently added a reference to John Palmer's work "how to brew" regarding the history of IPA and the use of hops specifically to aid in the preservation of IPA in the voyage to India. However, in the most recent addition of Palmer's work, he does not say that the story is true, but reports that it is "common mythos." (p. 217) I removed the claim and the reference, since several sources (mentioned in the article) either disagree or make no mention of this common tale. philosofool ( talk) 23:18, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
This article talk page was automatically added with {{ WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot ( talk) 04:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
OK, let's hash this out here now, just so it's on record. What should or shouldn't be in the article regarding IBU superlatives? What distinctions should be regarded (calculated from hop schedule? measured by hplc or other means? anything beyond limits of perception)? I ask this now, not only because it's being disputed, but also because doubtless it will be disputed again. Dunkelweizen ( talk) 22:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Do you have any source other than BA, which lists its actual IBU at 112? A 200 IBU beer is huge and misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.247.103.165 ( talk) 23:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm gonna say a bunch of stuff that's in a really authoritative voice, rather than trying quality it. Respond. There're dozens of examples in this article and we need to figure out whether that's really helping our readers.
The use of lots of examples is common in beer pages in wikipedia. This is perceived as informative, but I don't think that it always or even usually is. Some of the problems with examples include:
I think that this article has problems with too many examples, and many of that is subject to the sorts of criticisms above. Remember that the goal of this article is not to implicitly recommend to the readers that they try any particular IPA, nor even that they taste IPA in general: such behavior is POV, as it implicitly suggests that certain courses of action are good. Selecting a favorite IPA to tell the reader about is often inappropriate, even if what you say about it is true.
In case you're wondering how I got on this topic: I'm a pretty knowledgeable guy when it comes to things beer and there are several example in this article that didn't help me understand the topic in the slightest. philosofool ( talk) 22:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Writer/blogger Martyn Cornell posted some suggestions about this article on one of his posts' comment pages:
Well, it’s better now than it was, but there are still misunderstandings. Terry Foster’s book is - well - not the most accurate source. There’s no evidence I know of to say when Hodgson first began selling beer for export to India, and he wasn’t doing it himself anyway, it was the independent East India Company ship’s captains who bought the beer off him. Hodgson’s beer only had about half the Indian beer trade in 1800. The “exact reasons” why the Burton brewers got into the India trade aren’t a mystery at all - see both my Beer: the Story of the Pint and Amber Gold and Black for what happened. I don’t know where the idea that “many brewers dropped the term “India” in the late 19th century” comes from - “India Pale Ale” continued to be a part of the line-up of pale bitter ales for many, perhaps most brewers. “Hodgson’s style of brewing is probably responsible for term India Pale Ale.” - no - it was called India Pale Ale because it was “pale ale as prepared for India”. “His beer was lower in alcohol than most beer brewed in his day” - no it wasn’t, it was probably around or slightly higher than the average. “… a greater proportion of the wort was fermented” - well, it would have been drier than mild ale, but not necessarily drier than aged porter or stout .. “and the beer was strongly hopped.” That’s true, but so were other beers meant to be aged. Hope that’s helpful!
We can do what we want with this, but I thought it might be helpful. Dunkelweizen ( talk) 22:19, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Without objections, I shall link this aticle to the BJCP. BJCP ( talk) 22:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I object. Patto1ro ( talk) 05:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I was hoping for something more substantive, but if you want to take it to a vote we can go that route too. BJCP ( talk) 06:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
WP:!vote. I also object. For the same reasons that BJCP has not been linked to on other beer pages (refer to most of the talk pages that link to BJCP for info on this). This article is about one particular style; other styles don't link to BJCP and shouldn't. There is no reason that a link to BJCP would assist readers of this particular article. -- Karnesky ( talk) 12:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I wanted to point out that, given the recent edits changing all spelling to commonwealth/British style spelling, that because this is an English-style-neutral article, and because the first version was written in American English, the proper style is American English. Please refrain from changing to British style unnecessarily. Shadowjams ( talk) 08:20, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
This article is incredibly incoherent, with the United States section being a serious offender. I'm not knowledgeable enough to rewrite, so hope someone else will soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.197.155.211 ( talk) 07:02, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the entirely inaccurate statement "The October beer of Loren Jennings' Bow Brewery was the world's first India Pale Ale." and replaced it with a sentence stating that George Hodgson was one of the first known named brewers whose beer was exported to India. The rest of the piece then flows on from there. Zythophile ( talk) 23:48, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I know that some breweries have used this term, but I don't think it refers to anything distinct enough to count as a recognizable sub-"style" within the IPA family, as in the present article. How is "Northwest Pale Ale" different from other IPA's brewed with Northwest hops that are just called IPA's or American IPA's. I think this an independent source identifying this style and discussing its characteristics is in order. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.109.160.198 ( talk) 03:52, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
The article states that the commonly repeated statement that IPA derives it's recipe and name from having a long shelf life while being shipped to India around the great horn of Africa.
The source for this myth busting is weak at best, see the footnote:"Myth 4: George Hodgson invented IPA to survive the long trip to India" Ozten ( talk) 23:04, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
"The source for this myth busting is weak at best" As the author of the blog to which that footnote refers (though NOT the person who put that footnote in the article - no primary research in Wikipedia articles, etc), I can assure you that my sources are certainly not "weak", but 15 years' worth of researching 18th and 19th century newspapers, magazines and books. If you have evidence, actual hard primary-account evidence from the period, to back the claim that George Hodgson invented IPA to survive the journey to India, I'd be delighted to see it. Zythophile ( talk) 16:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm surprised to see the beer style articles in such a sad state! I designed a simple sidebar for beer categories here: User:JauntBox/Infobox_beer_styles. I got the style info from Brewing Classic Styles (Zainasheff and Palmer) and the BJCP guidelines. I was a little unclear on what to do for the entire IPA style category values since there's quite a bit of variation from and English IPA to an Imperial IPA. I left them as the global bounds on the category for simplicity (eg. overall IBU from 40-120 whereas an English IPA would have 40-60 IBU) since adding all the detail for larger style categories would probably get overwhelming to the reader. I've never made a component like this before, so what's the procedure for adding it to the article? Do we need to request a beer style infobox? Did I leave out anything or is too much there? JauntBox ( talk) 06:11, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
I and others remember that IPA in the UK used to usually stand for Imperial Pale Ale and only reverted to India Pale Ale in the last 20 years. Imperial Pale Ale redirects to this article which seems to confirm this but there's no mention of this in the article. Does anyone more knowledgeable on the subject than me know anything about this change, whether it's related to "political correctness" or similar or have any citations on this matter? 92.238.190.190 ( talk) 20:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but there never was, historically, a style of beer called "Imperial Pale Ale" or "Imperial IPA", and no British brewer, historically, ever brewed one - the name is completely an invention of the American brewing scene over the past 10 years or so. "IPA" has always stood for "India Pale Ale". And the whole "higher alcohol level to survive the voyage" thing is a myth as well - see eg here. Imperial Stout wasn't brewed strong to survive the journey - it was brewed strong because that's how the Russians liked it. Zythophile ( talk) 16:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I've changed the paragraph to reflect the accepted position that Vinnie at Blind Pig (now Russian River) Brewco began the style. This is supported in the already-existing reference (original poster neglected to read the next sentence of the quote, clearly stating as much). - 24.130.65.122 ( talk) 18:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to start a discussion about the persistent removal of sourced information about American IPAs. This is an important and vital part of the IPA umbrella, and we need to devote space to covering it with reliable sources. Haldraper, could you state some policy-based reasons why the following sourced paragraph should be removed:
East Coast IPAs are distinguished from West Coast IPAs in that the former have a stronger malt presence that balances the intensity of the hops whereas the latter endeavors to foreground the hops more. According to Steve Wagner of the Stone Brewing Company, it is conceivable that this is a corollary of the geographic proximity of West Coast breweries to hop fields in the Pacific Northwest. East Coast breweries rely more on European hops, which have spicier qualities. Sam Calagione of the Dogfish Head Brewery has indicated that East Coast breweries tend to make greater use of specialty malts in their recipes than is common in the west.[18][19][20]
.
Thanks, Skinwalker ( talk) 14:02, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
East Coast IPAs often have a strong malt presence and are distinguished from West Coast IPAs which emphasize hop intensity. This may be due to the greater availability of high alpha acid hops in the Pacific Northwest. East Coast breweries also tend to make greater use of specialty malts in their recipes.[18][19][20]
Confused - The first pic shows the "East India pale ale". The other two show the same thing "East India Pale Ale" & "East India Ale", and the last is a British label for the Australian market "India Pale Ale" Chaosdruid ( talk) 01:17, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
He just kind of appears in this article out of the blue with no introduction or hyperlink. It makes the history kind of confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8:800:6BE:5DD9:11B5:F691:37FF ( talk) 00:23, 29 October 2014 (UTC)