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Yeah sorry but this is a bit ridiculous. Quite literally 40 people here, in the middle of Skopje have claimed that they have declared a autonomous republic within Macedonia. http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/republic-of-ilirida-declared-in-macedonia
If it's that easy to claim such a thing and garner semi-decent media attention, it's a bit scary.
Some of the stuff in the infobox is hilarious:
Unrecognized constituent state of Macedonia Capital and largest city Skopje (claimed) Government Federal republic with elements of direct democracy President Nevzat Halili Prime Minister Baki Sulemani
Really, lol?
This is not an actual separatist movement pushing for autonomy. It's just a publicity stunt. Please delete. Futbol vic ( talk) 10:45, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
The current version of the article by Soffredo is unacceptable.
So, it needs to be reverted back. -- Local hero talk 01:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, I think this should be merged with another article. Firstly, it is a concept not shared by an ethnic group, or any other social group of people in the Republic of Macedonia, rather it is a concept only endorsed by one very small Albanian political fraction in the country (other Albanian parties in the country have shown no endorsement for the idea), it has very low approval (even in the Albanian community see: http://www.makdenes.org/content/article/26592341.html), and only in a regional and political aspect, low media coverage and little to no reliable sources, it hasn't affected nothing to this point in the affairs of the internal or international community, it is a failed project made twice by one man ( Nevzat Halili) previously in 1992, and not to mention it isn't recognized even as a concept by any other social institution in the country or elsewhere. Although I think it still deserves to be mentioned on Wikipedia, it should be in another article closely related to the subject, for example: Albanians in the Republic of Macedonia, Party for Democratic Prosperity, Nevzat Halili, or something else, doesn't matter. - Phill24th ( talk). 18:13, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
The merger was proposed and completed over one year ago. I continue to support the decision per WP:NOPAGE. There's a good chance we'll never see any more news out of this idea, so we'll simply be left this inadequately-sourced stub forever. With regard to what Resnjari has said, irredentism among Albanian Macedonians is a much broader topic than one guy's self-proclaimed republic. You seem to be suggesting that we use this article to cover the irredentism which would be inappropriate as this particular 'republic' is simply a pipe dream by one guy that is not representative of Albanian separatism. If we wish to cover that, it can be put into Albanians in Macedonia if not already covered there. In addition, Greater Albania seems to encompass all the irredentist Albanian ideas. -- Local hero talk 00:02, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
MorenaReka, you didn't even give me an opportunity to revert myself - you just went ahead on your own. I'd love to have you convince me that I'm wrong, if you don't feel like going to those 'many lengths' then don't bother participating in the discussion. This article was merged into Halili's over one year ago. That discussion is over, the situation has been stable for over one year. Per WP:CONSENSUS: "Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus. [the merge is assumed to have consensus] Should that edit later be revised by another editor without dispute, [your revision has been disputed by me] it can be assumed that a new consensus has been reached."
You decided to re-establish the page, then you were reverted, and then you reverted in return. Per WP:BRD, that's not the best way to go about things. In order to make your change, you must get a consensus.
Resnjari, if you'd like to discuss Aegean Macedonia, that can be done at the appropriate talk page. Consensus was achieved when, after two editors (Futbol Vic & Phill24th) proposed merging, I agreed, the edit was made, and then over one year passed before a dispute was made. Now, MorenaReka is trying to re-establish the page without consensus.
All coverage in books of this seems to be a one-sentence thing about Halili's declaration. -- Local hero talk 16:31, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
Resnjari, I support your idea of creating an article on separatism in Macedonia and putting all such 'republics' into it as opposed to having multiple short standalone articles.
MorenaReka, there is no clear consensus here currently which is why the stable version (before you re-established the page) should stand until we figure out the best way to move forward. In Googlebooks, there are 207 results and most of them simply mention the 'republic' briefly and infrequently. The ones used in the article are either short snippets or books that only discuss the 'republic' with PDP and Halili. The page patrollers do not trump consensus. Their marking the page as reviewed is not an endorsement that they believe this is the best way to handle the topic. -- Local hero talk 14:47, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
Guys, i have noticed recently that some editors who have don't have user name are constantly placing images of ballot paper etc on this article ? Me and Local have been removing them because we have come across similar material on the net. Can those images origin be ascertained that they are not images taken from other internet sources and placed here without acknowledgment or permissions? If these images pose copyright problems, they will be removed. If the issue continues beyond that (if concerns are not addressed by users who continuously place them here) than either i or some of the other editors will take further action. This is a serious matter as Wikipedia cannot have copyright infringements. Resnjari ( talk) 12:47, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
Of some time now, some editors who have no accounts but working through IP addresses have been placing state symbols attributed to Ilirida. A[part from them being difficult to ascertain if that was so, Ilirida was never a political reality but a political concept of a few within the Albanian political elite and some who backed this concept. It never gained widespread traction amongst the Albanian community anyway. I ask those editors who insist on these symbols, why is it that those symbols (of which their veracity is difficult to account for in the first place) should be included in a article that discusses a political concept that really never got of the ground more than that. I ask for a civil discussion here as frankly offensive comments written by an Albanian editor in Serbo-Croatian [4] aimed at another editor (who is of Macedonian heritage) are competently unacceptable and go against the spirit of Wikipedia (see policy: WP:civil ! A reminder to Albanian editors: Though i am of Albanian heritage i am fluent in Balkan Slavic languages and any derogatory language (such as the example given above) directed toward others i will report you and your IP(s) will be banned. Thank you. Resnjari ( talk) 15:44, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi @ Local hero: I haven't nominated a page to be placed for protection, so i am not fully familiar with the process. However, if time permits you to do so, do it. These editors with the multiple IP's pushing this POV is becoming ridiculous. Best. Resnjari ( talk) 17:23, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi Local hero, Why removed why you bother Ilirida why it bothers you all the Albanian in Macedonia why you don't mind: 1. Republic of Vevčani 2. Liberland 3. Azawad This is wrong for you, you must have a principle Please do not return
ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 11:10, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
I have read all answer my question about Liberland Republic of Vevčani and Azawad ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 13:53, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
You did not answer the question,about Liberland, [[Republic of Vevčani], Azawad Why are you afraid Republic of Ilirida FYROM is our You do not have exclusive rights for fyrom macedonia ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 16:24, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
You do not have enough information about ILIRIDA Republic of Ilirida is not a fictional state what is for you Azawad, Republic of Vevčani, and Liberland why stay this page ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 00:03, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
You can not compare ILIRIDA and Epirus Albanians has more than 509.083 thousand and Read a Albanian referendum for political and teritorial autonomy in macedonia 11 and 12 january 1992 https://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendumi_p%C3%ABr_autonomi_teritoriale_dhe_politike?wprov=sfsi1 ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 16:21, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Read and this http://www.sobranie.mk/arhiva-8bed31ca-f2f1-4a3f-b4ce-576fb78a2c0a-ns_article-31-sednica-91.nspx ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 16:24, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
I guess you realize from this situation that there is fyrom http://www.sobranie.mk/WBStorage/Files/31sed1prod11jan92god.pdf ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 16:29, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
The opening is confusing: It states: "The Republic of Ilirida is a proposed state of Macedonia".
What is stated here is that there should be a state called Macedonia. There is in fact a state called the Republic of Macedonia (or FYROM), but from how the text continues, I understand that the article is about a possible secessionist state made by up of ethnic Albanians. But that is not what the beginning of the article says. -- Oddeivind ( talk) 19:07, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
Please consider incorporating material from the above draft submission into this article. Drafts are eligible for deletion after 6 months of inactivity. ~ Kvng ( talk) 00:23, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I'm currently creating a map of the republic of Ilirida and the Albanian ethnic minority in Macedonia. If you have sources that I could use for this map, please link them here below. Thanks! N.Hoxha ( talk) 13:53, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Imo, arguments by Local hero and Resnjari here against the map are fine but they sound actually like arguments to delete this page. It exists, and is notable. It is already such a magnet. That's turp, but such is the lot of us wiki janitors. The best thing we can do is have infinite time and bring this page to a quality where it can be used as an example by responsible Greek editors in the future to clean up the dumpster fire that is the N Epirus page ("Albanian" editors including non Albanians focused on Albania can't really do this thanks to wikitribalism, sadly). Hoxha, do beware that in the past, the Albanian geographical presence was as a rule less expansive than today; modern ethnographic boundaries are poor proxies. But the map would be about a claim, and in this I agree with you and Ktrimi that it would not only enrich the page, but that it is important for peoples' comprehension of the issue. Ilirida was never homogenously Albanian and many Albanians were outside its borders-- only a map can clearly show that, for example. That is one of many reasons I think it is useful and important.-- Calthinus ( talk) 15:02, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
The map in that Balkan Insight article is the first I've seen for Halili's concept. It seems like it is referring to a federalized Macedonia (Republika e Federale Maqedonise) though, with this Ilirida being an entity within the federal republic, right? -- Local hero talk 15:19, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
N.Hoxha the map we should have is not one that depicts "where Albanians live". Because where Albanians live != Ilirida (actually the entity may have an ethnic Mac plurality...). There are non-Albanian parts of Ilirida (many), and (fewer but some) Albanian inhabited territories beyond its borders. This page is about "Ilirida", not "Albanian inhabited parts of Macedonia.-- Calthinus ( talk) 20:01, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
The map is created! If you want to give your opinions or comment on it, you can do so on its talk page. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Republic_of_Ilirida.png N.Hoxha ( talk) 19:19, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
There is not even a single mention of the country under its current name, in violation of Wikipedia's WP:MOSMAC which states that the current name may be added when referring to that country in historical context: "then Republic of Macedonia" or "now Republic of North Macedonia", etc. Also there is not even a single mention of the country's current names in other sentences which do not refer to that country in a historical context.
I went with updating the article to correct both issues, but FPAS came and blindly reverted everything and now the name North Macedonia is again totally absent from the entire article! Not even a single clarification about the country's current name: [7]
EDIT : At least FPAS saw that the complete absense of the country's current name is abit too gross violation of MOSMAC and went to correct the mistake with new edits. This is a good step in the right direction, however I do believe the image captions too need to be updated as well. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ( talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 08:51, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Says "The Republic of Ilirida (Albanian: Republika e Iliridës) is a proposed state". Should it be "is" or "was"? I am pinging @ Resnjari:, @ Local hero: and @ N.Hoxha: but anyone interested might give their opinion. Ktrimi991 ( talk) 23:08, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
N.Hoxha, Ktrimi991: I cannot quite see why you keep reverting this inclusion in the lede. The lede is supposed to summarise main points of the article, so the fact that it is already mentioned in the history section, is really not an argument for not having it in the lede, but actually quite the opposite. You seem to accept the mention of this in the "History" section, so you will need to convince me and other editors (pinging Sadko, Jingiby, Khirurg) why it is not lede-worthy. If we cannot work it out here in the talk page, we need to use the tools available for dispute resolution. Continued edit warring is not an option. -- T*U ( talk) 11:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Do not exist Greater Albania, only real Albania, this term is deliberately used by surrounding enemies Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:07, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
it is already mentioned in the history sectionin their edit summary here. Then I explained the same thing in a bit more detail when opening this thread here. So please forgive me for reacting when the exactly same argument was raised again without any attempt at further explanation. Regarding my reasons for thinking it lede-worthy, you have given a clue yourself. The concept of Ilirida is not precisely defined, it can be an idea about a separate state, about an autonomous area, about the dream of Greater Albania... Therefore the lede should reflect this and mention Greater Albania as well as the other ideas.
You either do not understand or intentionally misrepresent the facts. I repeat once again, because of unrealistic and unjust behavior by the then government, Nation who number more than half a million and more are enrolled in the constitution as a minority, because of this they boycotted the constitution and declaration of independence, the counter-answer is that the Albanians organized a referendum on political and territorial autonomy within the existing state and this is crystal clear, they did not want to do with Albania or Kosovo, stop twisting the facts Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 13:42, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
By what right do you mention me to the flags I set up, It is my nation and my people and I proudly place it you have no right to interfere Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 16:44, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
User:T*U If Albania wanted big Albania as you like to call it, it would not have recognized the independence of Macedonia as one of the first countries in the world without any conditions, so your story about big Albania and the ambition of the Albanian people is irrelevant, especially as you mention the pages on facebook and twitter there everyone creates what he wants and what you want you can't forbid anyone as someone has a point of view on a political thing every individual has the right to believe what he or she thinks is right Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 18:31, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
If the Republic of Ilirida is already named, it is logical that an info box with information is needed Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 21:50, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
The republic of krusevo how many hours existed I find it necessary for the info box The then Albanian elite managed to hold a referendum amid so many death threats, the referendum was the answer to all unilateral decisions of the then government So I think it should be presented as it fits Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:40, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
N.Hoxha a frame similar to that used for the republic of Krusevo state before states after Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:42, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kru%C5%A1evo_Republic Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:44, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Resnjari First of all, you have no right to call Albanian insurgents, the war happened because of the injustices and discontent of the Albanian people, as well as all the unilateral decisions of the then fascist government the Albanian side is responding to wrongdoing and all unilateral decisions that have disparaged the Albanian people, these politicians have managed to organize a referendum on political and territorial autonomy within the country There is nothing wrong with presenting it in the info box it needs that referendum and that proclamation to be presented in the right way as far as i have seen you are particularly annoyed by the republic of ilirida you do not need to mix your feelings with the wikipedia page like it or not like ilrida you need to be constructive Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 15:44, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Well, this is a page, you wrote a script for a movie about Albanians and about ILIRIDA you wrote how it looks like if you put an info box it will be realized, I can't believe what kind of phobias you have, incredible but true Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 23:01, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
friends You mix terms. relax tense you are attacking me for no reason. an infbox cannot start a war or form a state, you are scared of something for no reason, or intentionally trying to portray this site as something extreme. you know full well that the ilirida is the result of discontent and injustice towards the Albanian people and all unilateral decisions from the then government, the referendum and the proclamation of the ilirida is a counter-response to all unilateral decisions of the then government. you know that Albanians did not vote for independence in parliament. that is why i think this site should be presented properly and similar sites have all infobox so please be honest and realistic about this site and please do not confuse the past with the present regarding this site Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 17:05, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
you know full well that the ilirida is the result of discontent and injustice towards the Albanian people and all unilateral decisions from the then government. When i gave you an explanation, you called it "phobias", as i said to you before i understand why it was so in the 1990s, but not today. And even then it never went beyond a ballot, declarations etc. It was never sovereign. @Vestacka Nacija your confirming my suspicions on what angle you want this article to take. This in an encyclopedia, not a place to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Resnjari ( talk) 19:12, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
If there is a page with a first and last name, then it should be complete as it fits into one page on wikipedia. Organizing a referendum and proclaiming a republic is a big deal and it is very important that it is complete with all the information and infobox, and plus to know that it was organized during a very dangerous time and under great threats and great pressure on the Albanian elite, they did what was whether in their power and the people also responded en masse to that referendum and proclamation. Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 19:48, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
As there is not enough information, you have all the dates also has similar info box pages here it is obvious that someone is bothering this site and insisting that there is no info box, this site was even moved to Nevzat Halili redirect which was a real indicator that some wikipedia users are nationally minded There are similar sites a lot Liberland Kruševo republic Republic of vevcani Autonomous Republic of Northern Epirus You need to have the same criteria Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 21:52, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks N.Hoxha for sharing the same opinion That's why I wrote about the info box, if other sites have it, and because of the aesthetic display Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:53, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
He can do both, better former states where autonomy is written
there are many similar ones
there are many similar ones
there are many similar ones
Drač County (Kingdom of Serbia) Republic of Mirdita Republic of Central Albania Autonomous Albanian Republic of Korçë there are many similar ones Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 13:49, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
And how much Liberland existed so it has an info box and no one has a problem with it The Albanians organized themselves and responded to the injustice served at the time People were going out in large numbers and even coming from the diaspora to vote for that autonomy Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 16:59, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
Info box Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 16:50, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Do whatever you want i have smarter business than wikipedia Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 14:26, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Should the article contain an {{ Infobox country}} along the lines of this example? -- T*U ( talk) 22:03, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
I have agreed to help Vestacka Nacija create a RfC in order to get input from more editors and avoid edit war. -- T*U ( talk) 22:03, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
@ T*U: Here's a colleague understood, nothing is complicated, Just replace one sentence Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 20:13, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Here the T*U understood what I wrote Just replace one sentence Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 20:17, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
(Proposed autonomy within the state of north macedonia) This is how it should be written The referendum organized for political and territorial autonomy, There is no mention of the division of the state Stop confusing people Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 18:09, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
[[User:|Calthinus|Calthinus]]
You didn't understand well
A referendum on political and territorial autonomy within the country was organized,
the referendum is a counter-response to the wrongdoing by the then government and the adopted constitution, where we are represented as a minority Albanian not really a minority
Vestacka Nacija (
talk) 22:37, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Ktrimi You can't call her an ilrida, they declared a republic and it's documented
You didn't declare it, you have to respect it
Vestacka Nacija (
talk) 22:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
ILIRIDA is one, ILLYRIA is another
users who are familiar with the ILIRIDA should discuss this, not laymen who have no idea?
VMRO-DPMNE (
talk) 22:48, 16 March 2020 (UTC)Stricken per
WP:SOCKSTRIKE --
Calthinus (
talk) 00:25, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
The page has In 1994, the establishment of the University of Tetova as an independent Albanian educational institution served as a trial run for the functionality of Ilirida as a (underground) state entity. The goal of its proponents was to set up and proclaim ministries for health, culture, education and to adopt some kind of constitution.[11]
The cited source has only this page for results on the University of Tetovo (wiht an o, no results for "-a"): [ [8]].
Unless I misunderstand this, that the university is itself an irredentist "experiment" is quite an extraordinary claim.-- Calthinus ( talk) 21:37, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. No consensus for merging though that can take place in a subsequent discussion. — Wug· a·po·des 23:41, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Republic of Ilirida →
Ilirida – Nobody seems to be clear on what the end goal of this vague idea was -- Albanians in Macedonia needed a name for the collective areas they inhabited that did not involve "Macedonia", but it was not clear if they wanted simply more rights in Macedonia, a federation state with Ilirida and rump North (Northeast??) Macedonia, an independent republic, an independent parliamentary monarchy with Prince Leka as monarch, merger with Albania, or merger with Kosovo. Hence it would seem simple "Ilirida" would be the best designation for the topic.
Calthinus (
talk) 21:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)—Relisting.
Jerm (
talk) 15:00, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Pings to active users who have recently made contributions to this talk page: @ Ktrimi991, TU-nor, Future Perfect at Sunrise, Vestacka Nacija, N.Hoxha, Sadko, Resnjari, Local hero, and SilentResident: -- Calthinus ( talk) 22:02, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::
❖ SilentResident ❖ ILIRIDA is one, ILLYRIA is another users who are familiar with the ILIRIDA should discuss this, not laymen who have no idea?
VMRO-DPMNE —Preceding
undated comment added 22:55, 16 March 2020 (UTC) Stricken per
WP:SOCKSTRIKE --
Calthinus (
talk) 00:24, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Illurida wiki. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Regards, SONIC 678 02:09, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ilirida article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This article was nominated for deletion on March 30 2008. The result of the discussion was delete. |
Yeah sorry but this is a bit ridiculous. Quite literally 40 people here, in the middle of Skopje have claimed that they have declared a autonomous republic within Macedonia. http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/republic-of-ilirida-declared-in-macedonia
If it's that easy to claim such a thing and garner semi-decent media attention, it's a bit scary.
Some of the stuff in the infobox is hilarious:
Unrecognized constituent state of Macedonia Capital and largest city Skopje (claimed) Government Federal republic with elements of direct democracy President Nevzat Halili Prime Minister Baki Sulemani
Really, lol?
This is not an actual separatist movement pushing for autonomy. It's just a publicity stunt. Please delete. Futbol vic ( talk) 10:45, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
The current version of the article by Soffredo is unacceptable.
So, it needs to be reverted back. -- Local hero talk 01:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, I think this should be merged with another article. Firstly, it is a concept not shared by an ethnic group, or any other social group of people in the Republic of Macedonia, rather it is a concept only endorsed by one very small Albanian political fraction in the country (other Albanian parties in the country have shown no endorsement for the idea), it has very low approval (even in the Albanian community see: http://www.makdenes.org/content/article/26592341.html), and only in a regional and political aspect, low media coverage and little to no reliable sources, it hasn't affected nothing to this point in the affairs of the internal or international community, it is a failed project made twice by one man ( Nevzat Halili) previously in 1992, and not to mention it isn't recognized even as a concept by any other social institution in the country or elsewhere. Although I think it still deserves to be mentioned on Wikipedia, it should be in another article closely related to the subject, for example: Albanians in the Republic of Macedonia, Party for Democratic Prosperity, Nevzat Halili, or something else, doesn't matter. - Phill24th ( talk). 18:13, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
The merger was proposed and completed over one year ago. I continue to support the decision per WP:NOPAGE. There's a good chance we'll never see any more news out of this idea, so we'll simply be left this inadequately-sourced stub forever. With regard to what Resnjari has said, irredentism among Albanian Macedonians is a much broader topic than one guy's self-proclaimed republic. You seem to be suggesting that we use this article to cover the irredentism which would be inappropriate as this particular 'republic' is simply a pipe dream by one guy that is not representative of Albanian separatism. If we wish to cover that, it can be put into Albanians in Macedonia if not already covered there. In addition, Greater Albania seems to encompass all the irredentist Albanian ideas. -- Local hero talk 00:02, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
MorenaReka, you didn't even give me an opportunity to revert myself - you just went ahead on your own. I'd love to have you convince me that I'm wrong, if you don't feel like going to those 'many lengths' then don't bother participating in the discussion. This article was merged into Halili's over one year ago. That discussion is over, the situation has been stable for over one year. Per WP:CONSENSUS: "Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus. [the merge is assumed to have consensus] Should that edit later be revised by another editor without dispute, [your revision has been disputed by me] it can be assumed that a new consensus has been reached."
You decided to re-establish the page, then you were reverted, and then you reverted in return. Per WP:BRD, that's not the best way to go about things. In order to make your change, you must get a consensus.
Resnjari, if you'd like to discuss Aegean Macedonia, that can be done at the appropriate talk page. Consensus was achieved when, after two editors (Futbol Vic & Phill24th) proposed merging, I agreed, the edit was made, and then over one year passed before a dispute was made. Now, MorenaReka is trying to re-establish the page without consensus.
All coverage in books of this seems to be a one-sentence thing about Halili's declaration. -- Local hero talk 16:31, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
Resnjari, I support your idea of creating an article on separatism in Macedonia and putting all such 'republics' into it as opposed to having multiple short standalone articles.
MorenaReka, there is no clear consensus here currently which is why the stable version (before you re-established the page) should stand until we figure out the best way to move forward. In Googlebooks, there are 207 results and most of them simply mention the 'republic' briefly and infrequently. The ones used in the article are either short snippets or books that only discuss the 'republic' with PDP and Halili. The page patrollers do not trump consensus. Their marking the page as reviewed is not an endorsement that they believe this is the best way to handle the topic. -- Local hero talk 14:47, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
Guys, i have noticed recently that some editors who have don't have user name are constantly placing images of ballot paper etc on this article ? Me and Local have been removing them because we have come across similar material on the net. Can those images origin be ascertained that they are not images taken from other internet sources and placed here without acknowledgment or permissions? If these images pose copyright problems, they will be removed. If the issue continues beyond that (if concerns are not addressed by users who continuously place them here) than either i or some of the other editors will take further action. This is a serious matter as Wikipedia cannot have copyright infringements. Resnjari ( talk) 12:47, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
Of some time now, some editors who have no accounts but working through IP addresses have been placing state symbols attributed to Ilirida. A[part from them being difficult to ascertain if that was so, Ilirida was never a political reality but a political concept of a few within the Albanian political elite and some who backed this concept. It never gained widespread traction amongst the Albanian community anyway. I ask those editors who insist on these symbols, why is it that those symbols (of which their veracity is difficult to account for in the first place) should be included in a article that discusses a political concept that really never got of the ground more than that. I ask for a civil discussion here as frankly offensive comments written by an Albanian editor in Serbo-Croatian [4] aimed at another editor (who is of Macedonian heritage) are competently unacceptable and go against the spirit of Wikipedia (see policy: WP:civil ! A reminder to Albanian editors: Though i am of Albanian heritage i am fluent in Balkan Slavic languages and any derogatory language (such as the example given above) directed toward others i will report you and your IP(s) will be banned. Thank you. Resnjari ( talk) 15:44, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi @ Local hero: I haven't nominated a page to be placed for protection, so i am not fully familiar with the process. However, if time permits you to do so, do it. These editors with the multiple IP's pushing this POV is becoming ridiculous. Best. Resnjari ( talk) 17:23, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi Local hero, Why removed why you bother Ilirida why it bothers you all the Albanian in Macedonia why you don't mind: 1. Republic of Vevčani 2. Liberland 3. Azawad This is wrong for you, you must have a principle Please do not return
ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 11:10, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
I have read all answer my question about Liberland Republic of Vevčani and Azawad ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 13:53, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
You did not answer the question,about Liberland, [[Republic of Vevčani], Azawad Why are you afraid Republic of Ilirida FYROM is our You do not have exclusive rights for fyrom macedonia ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 16:24, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
You do not have enough information about ILIRIDA Republic of Ilirida is not a fictional state what is for you Azawad, Republic of Vevčani, and Liberland why stay this page ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 00:03, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
You can not compare ILIRIDA and Epirus Albanians has more than 509.083 thousand and Read a Albanian referendum for political and teritorial autonomy in macedonia 11 and 12 january 1992 https://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendumi_p%C3%ABr_autonomi_teritoriale_dhe_politike?wprov=sfsi1 ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 16:21, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
Read and this http://www.sobranie.mk/arhiva-8bed31ca-f2f1-4a3f-b4ce-576fb78a2c0a-ns_article-31-sednica-91.nspx ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 16:24, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
I guess you realize from this situation that there is fyrom http://www.sobranie.mk/WBStorage/Files/31sed1prod11jan92god.pdf ILIRIDAproud ( talk) 16:29, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
The opening is confusing: It states: "The Republic of Ilirida is a proposed state of Macedonia".
What is stated here is that there should be a state called Macedonia. There is in fact a state called the Republic of Macedonia (or FYROM), but from how the text continues, I understand that the article is about a possible secessionist state made by up of ethnic Albanians. But that is not what the beginning of the article says. -- Oddeivind ( talk) 19:07, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
Please consider incorporating material from the above draft submission into this article. Drafts are eligible for deletion after 6 months of inactivity. ~ Kvng ( talk) 00:23, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I'm currently creating a map of the republic of Ilirida and the Albanian ethnic minority in Macedonia. If you have sources that I could use for this map, please link them here below. Thanks! N.Hoxha ( talk) 13:53, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Imo, arguments by Local hero and Resnjari here against the map are fine but they sound actually like arguments to delete this page. It exists, and is notable. It is already such a magnet. That's turp, but such is the lot of us wiki janitors. The best thing we can do is have infinite time and bring this page to a quality where it can be used as an example by responsible Greek editors in the future to clean up the dumpster fire that is the N Epirus page ("Albanian" editors including non Albanians focused on Albania can't really do this thanks to wikitribalism, sadly). Hoxha, do beware that in the past, the Albanian geographical presence was as a rule less expansive than today; modern ethnographic boundaries are poor proxies. But the map would be about a claim, and in this I agree with you and Ktrimi that it would not only enrich the page, but that it is important for peoples' comprehension of the issue. Ilirida was never homogenously Albanian and many Albanians were outside its borders-- only a map can clearly show that, for example. That is one of many reasons I think it is useful and important.-- Calthinus ( talk) 15:02, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
The map in that Balkan Insight article is the first I've seen for Halili's concept. It seems like it is referring to a federalized Macedonia (Republika e Federale Maqedonise) though, with this Ilirida being an entity within the federal republic, right? -- Local hero talk 15:19, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
N.Hoxha the map we should have is not one that depicts "where Albanians live". Because where Albanians live != Ilirida (actually the entity may have an ethnic Mac plurality...). There are non-Albanian parts of Ilirida (many), and (fewer but some) Albanian inhabited territories beyond its borders. This page is about "Ilirida", not "Albanian inhabited parts of Macedonia.-- Calthinus ( talk) 20:01, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
The map is created! If you want to give your opinions or comment on it, you can do so on its talk page. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Republic_of_Ilirida.png N.Hoxha ( talk) 19:19, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
There is not even a single mention of the country under its current name, in violation of Wikipedia's WP:MOSMAC which states that the current name may be added when referring to that country in historical context: "then Republic of Macedonia" or "now Republic of North Macedonia", etc. Also there is not even a single mention of the country's current names in other sentences which do not refer to that country in a historical context.
I went with updating the article to correct both issues, but FPAS came and blindly reverted everything and now the name North Macedonia is again totally absent from the entire article! Not even a single clarification about the country's current name: [7]
EDIT : At least FPAS saw that the complete absense of the country's current name is abit too gross violation of MOSMAC and went to correct the mistake with new edits. This is a good step in the right direction, however I do believe the image captions too need to be updated as well. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ( talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 08:51, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Says "The Republic of Ilirida (Albanian: Republika e Iliridës) is a proposed state". Should it be "is" or "was"? I am pinging @ Resnjari:, @ Local hero: and @ N.Hoxha: but anyone interested might give their opinion. Ktrimi991 ( talk) 23:08, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
N.Hoxha, Ktrimi991: I cannot quite see why you keep reverting this inclusion in the lede. The lede is supposed to summarise main points of the article, so the fact that it is already mentioned in the history section, is really not an argument for not having it in the lede, but actually quite the opposite. You seem to accept the mention of this in the "History" section, so you will need to convince me and other editors (pinging Sadko, Jingiby, Khirurg) why it is not lede-worthy. If we cannot work it out here in the talk page, we need to use the tools available for dispute resolution. Continued edit warring is not an option. -- T*U ( talk) 11:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Do not exist Greater Albania, only real Albania, this term is deliberately used by surrounding enemies Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:07, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
it is already mentioned in the history sectionin their edit summary here. Then I explained the same thing in a bit more detail when opening this thread here. So please forgive me for reacting when the exactly same argument was raised again without any attempt at further explanation. Regarding my reasons for thinking it lede-worthy, you have given a clue yourself. The concept of Ilirida is not precisely defined, it can be an idea about a separate state, about an autonomous area, about the dream of Greater Albania... Therefore the lede should reflect this and mention Greater Albania as well as the other ideas.
You either do not understand or intentionally misrepresent the facts. I repeat once again, because of unrealistic and unjust behavior by the then government, Nation who number more than half a million and more are enrolled in the constitution as a minority, because of this they boycotted the constitution and declaration of independence, the counter-answer is that the Albanians organized a referendum on political and territorial autonomy within the existing state and this is crystal clear, they did not want to do with Albania or Kosovo, stop twisting the facts Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 13:42, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
By what right do you mention me to the flags I set up, It is my nation and my people and I proudly place it you have no right to interfere Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 16:44, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
User:T*U If Albania wanted big Albania as you like to call it, it would not have recognized the independence of Macedonia as one of the first countries in the world without any conditions, so your story about big Albania and the ambition of the Albanian people is irrelevant, especially as you mention the pages on facebook and twitter there everyone creates what he wants and what you want you can't forbid anyone as someone has a point of view on a political thing every individual has the right to believe what he or she thinks is right Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 18:31, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
If the Republic of Ilirida is already named, it is logical that an info box with information is needed Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 21:50, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
The republic of krusevo how many hours existed I find it necessary for the info box The then Albanian elite managed to hold a referendum amid so many death threats, the referendum was the answer to all unilateral decisions of the then government So I think it should be presented as it fits Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:40, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
N.Hoxha a frame similar to that used for the republic of Krusevo state before states after Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:42, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kru%C5%A1evo_Republic Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:44, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Resnjari First of all, you have no right to call Albanian insurgents, the war happened because of the injustices and discontent of the Albanian people, as well as all the unilateral decisions of the then fascist government the Albanian side is responding to wrongdoing and all unilateral decisions that have disparaged the Albanian people, these politicians have managed to organize a referendum on political and territorial autonomy within the country There is nothing wrong with presenting it in the info box it needs that referendum and that proclamation to be presented in the right way as far as i have seen you are particularly annoyed by the republic of ilirida you do not need to mix your feelings with the wikipedia page like it or not like ilrida you need to be constructive Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 15:44, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Well, this is a page, you wrote a script for a movie about Albanians and about ILIRIDA you wrote how it looks like if you put an info box it will be realized, I can't believe what kind of phobias you have, incredible but true Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 23:01, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
friends You mix terms. relax tense you are attacking me for no reason. an infbox cannot start a war or form a state, you are scared of something for no reason, or intentionally trying to portray this site as something extreme. you know full well that the ilirida is the result of discontent and injustice towards the Albanian people and all unilateral decisions from the then government, the referendum and the proclamation of the ilirida is a counter-response to all unilateral decisions of the then government. you know that Albanians did not vote for independence in parliament. that is why i think this site should be presented properly and similar sites have all infobox so please be honest and realistic about this site and please do not confuse the past with the present regarding this site Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 17:05, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
you know full well that the ilirida is the result of discontent and injustice towards the Albanian people and all unilateral decisions from the then government. When i gave you an explanation, you called it "phobias", as i said to you before i understand why it was so in the 1990s, but not today. And even then it never went beyond a ballot, declarations etc. It was never sovereign. @Vestacka Nacija your confirming my suspicions on what angle you want this article to take. This in an encyclopedia, not a place to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Resnjari ( talk) 19:12, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
If there is a page with a first and last name, then it should be complete as it fits into one page on wikipedia. Organizing a referendum and proclaiming a republic is a big deal and it is very important that it is complete with all the information and infobox, and plus to know that it was organized during a very dangerous time and under great threats and great pressure on the Albanian elite, they did what was whether in their power and the people also responded en masse to that referendum and proclamation. Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 19:48, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
As there is not enough information, you have all the dates also has similar info box pages here it is obvious that someone is bothering this site and insisting that there is no info box, this site was even moved to Nevzat Halili redirect which was a real indicator that some wikipedia users are nationally minded There are similar sites a lot Liberland Kruševo republic Republic of vevcani Autonomous Republic of Northern Epirus You need to have the same criteria Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 21:52, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks N.Hoxha for sharing the same opinion That's why I wrote about the info box, if other sites have it, and because of the aesthetic display Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 22:53, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
He can do both, better former states where autonomy is written
there are many similar ones
there are many similar ones
there are many similar ones
Drač County (Kingdom of Serbia) Republic of Mirdita Republic of Central Albania Autonomous Albanian Republic of Korçë there are many similar ones Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 13:49, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
And how much Liberland existed so it has an info box and no one has a problem with it The Albanians organized themselves and responded to the injustice served at the time People were going out in large numbers and even coming from the diaspora to vote for that autonomy Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 16:59, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
Info box Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 16:50, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Do whatever you want i have smarter business than wikipedia Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 14:26, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Should the article contain an {{ Infobox country}} along the lines of this example? -- T*U ( talk) 22:03, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
I have agreed to help Vestacka Nacija create a RfC in order to get input from more editors and avoid edit war. -- T*U ( talk) 22:03, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
@ T*U: Here's a colleague understood, nothing is complicated, Just replace one sentence Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 20:13, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Here the T*U understood what I wrote Just replace one sentence Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 20:17, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
(Proposed autonomy within the state of north macedonia) This is how it should be written The referendum organized for political and territorial autonomy, There is no mention of the division of the state Stop confusing people Vestacka Nacija ( talk) 18:09, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
[[User:|Calthinus|Calthinus]]
You didn't understand well
A referendum on political and territorial autonomy within the country was organized,
the referendum is a counter-response to the wrongdoing by the then government and the adopted constitution, where we are represented as a minority Albanian not really a minority
Vestacka Nacija (
talk) 22:37, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Ktrimi You can't call her an ilrida, they declared a republic and it's documented
You didn't declare it, you have to respect it
Vestacka Nacija (
talk) 22:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
ILIRIDA is one, ILLYRIA is another
users who are familiar with the ILIRIDA should discuss this, not laymen who have no idea?
VMRO-DPMNE (
talk) 22:48, 16 March 2020 (UTC)Stricken per
WP:SOCKSTRIKE --
Calthinus (
talk) 00:25, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
The page has In 1994, the establishment of the University of Tetova as an independent Albanian educational institution served as a trial run for the functionality of Ilirida as a (underground) state entity. The goal of its proponents was to set up and proclaim ministries for health, culture, education and to adopt some kind of constitution.[11]
The cited source has only this page for results on the University of Tetovo (wiht an o, no results for "-a"): [ [8]].
Unless I misunderstand this, that the university is itself an irredentist "experiment" is quite an extraordinary claim.-- Calthinus ( talk) 21:37, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. No consensus for merging though that can take place in a subsequent discussion. — Wug· a·po·des 23:41, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Republic of Ilirida →
Ilirida – Nobody seems to be clear on what the end goal of this vague idea was -- Albanians in Macedonia needed a name for the collective areas they inhabited that did not involve "Macedonia", but it was not clear if they wanted simply more rights in Macedonia, a federation state with Ilirida and rump North (Northeast??) Macedonia, an independent republic, an independent parliamentary monarchy with Prince Leka as monarch, merger with Albania, or merger with Kosovo. Hence it would seem simple "Ilirida" would be the best designation for the topic.
Calthinus (
talk) 21:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)—Relisting.
Jerm (
talk) 15:00, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Pings to active users who have recently made contributions to this talk page: @ Ktrimi991, TU-nor, Future Perfect at Sunrise, Vestacka Nacija, N.Hoxha, Sadko, Resnjari, Local hero, and SilentResident: -- Calthinus ( talk) 22:02, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::
❖ SilentResident ❖ ILIRIDA is one, ILLYRIA is another users who are familiar with the ILIRIDA should discuss this, not laymen who have no idea?
VMRO-DPMNE —Preceding
undated comment added 22:55, 16 March 2020 (UTC) Stricken per
WP:SOCKSTRIKE --
Calthinus (
talk) 00:24, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Illurida wiki. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Regards, SONIC 678 02:09, 30 April 2020 (UTC)