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The current organization of the article is kind of useless, as it gives no sense of the history or development of the concept, just giving a bunch of different uses of it in apparently random order. Wouldn't it make sense to (at least) put all these usages in chronological order, if not to actually try to determine what the original usage of the term is? john k 23:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I just undid a revision that removed real world references within this fictional topic. The reason I did so was because the article has problems with being written largely in an "in-universe" (fictional) style. Reducing those complaints (tags), I feel, means providing as many out-of-universe (real world) references as we can. The editor's argument was "redundant". While I can agree the text is "a bit excessive" (not quite redundant), it's there for a good reason, I believe. — Aladdin Sane ( talk) 15:25, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Why are all these diferent fictional universes listed here ? This topic should be better organized and the specifi information moved to the correct location in the series/universe tree. — Written by anonymous (200.198.94.130) 2006-05-30 01:55:34
Tagged for cleanup due to spelling errors, use of first person, original "research", in-universe presentation, etc. 71.232.57.59 04:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
The Erma Felna section is just plain wrong. Chrisweuve ( talk) 11:44, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Many parts of this article confuse the concepts of hyperspace (a high-dimensional space) with subspace (a lower dimensional space). Subspace, as used in science fiction such as Cordwainer Smith or presumably Star Trek, is based on a sending artifacts or messages through a spatial dimension below or under normal 3D space. Hyperspace is used to send artifacts or message through a spatial dimension above normal 3D space. These are two distinct concepts that have been conflated in this article. Either subspace concepts should be moved to a separate article or the title should be changed to indicate the article deals with a variety of fictional concepts about space time including both hyperspace and subspace. Steevithak ( talk) 16:19, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
I've been looking though the examples with an eye for quality. Generally they run the gambit of ways to need improvement. That's not preternaturally great, given that the page as it exists also needs some changes to help length and writing style (removing the personal essay feel). Since both the examples and the page are in need of work, it seems like having them both together makes the page much more disorganized than could otherwise be achieved by having the pages separate. I really like the dedication that when into the example section, nor do I think it's off topic in spirit, only it makes the Hyperspace page too long. I'd really like to see the example section get the fine tuning that it needs. I think separating the two pages, Hyperspace and List of Hyperspace Depictions in Science Fiction, would help achieve a more concise reading experience.
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This section of Talk has been moved to Talk:List of Hyperspace Depictions in Science Fiction.
Well the splitting off of a list didn't last long, but it was just a massive list of in-universe fancruft which didn't deserve to survive. However, I rather feel that the article was lacking any useful examples, which is the opposite extreme. I have inserted some significant cinematic examples to the Later depictions section, written from a MOS:REALWORLD perspective, along with citations, which give the article a little more depth. The rest of that section is still unsourced WP:OR and could safely be deleted - whoever wrote that stuff clearly has no intention of adding sources. Cnbrb ( talk) 14:51, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Just added a merge notice at the top. People are more likely to look under Hyperspace than Hyperdrive, ya? Davidpk212 20:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
If the proposal has one more vote, I'll do the business and merge it. Davidpk212 18:34, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Merging, even though it didn't get another vote. Davidpk212 16:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
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I am done expanding/verifying content here with the sources I have access to, and I am not sure there is much left. There is still some ORish content here, which, while correct, needs referencing or removal. Ping User:TompaDompa, User:Daranios, User:Jclemens... if no-one can find refs for the content that I tagged as citation needed, it probably needs to go? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 23:55, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
I've redirectes Underspace from Star Trek here, because its a form of hyperspace. It's mentioned in the Star Trek Fact Files and the Star Trek Encylopedia. Maybe other source, that i don't have. It is therefore worth mentioning. -- Mark McWire ( talk) 22:19, 9 November 2021 (UTC) In addition, both compilations / books clearly count as secondary sources, no primary sources.-- Mark McWire ( talk) 22:20, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
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Reviewer: TompaDompa ( talk · contribs) 21:10, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
I'm planning to do a full review fairly soon, but here are some initial observations:
TompaDompa ( talk) 21:10, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
space travel using a fictional existence outside what humans normally observeare precursors to hyperspace is the kind of analysis that really needs to come from the sources. TompaDompa ( talk) 00:36, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Some additional comments:
The term hyperspace itself is only used as hyperspace physics test in episode Coming of Age of Star Trek: The Next Generation.is incorrectly formatted and missing a definite article, but should probably just be removed outright.
According to The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, Robert A. Heinlein gave a particularly clear description of it in Starman Jones (1953).is not particularly informative. The description used is discussed in The Science in Science Fiction and The Greenwood Encyclopedia of Science Fiction and Fantasy.
In Arthur C. Clarke's Technical Error (1950)should link to Technical Error and the title should be in quotes rather than italics since it seems to be a short story.
The reasons given for such restrictions are usually technobabble, but their existence is just a plot device allowing for interstellar policies to actually form and exist.is not as far as I can see supported by either of the cited sources.
I'll keep adding comments as I go. TompaDompa ( talk) 00:44, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Additional comments:
From early 20th century onward, hyperspace became a common element of space travel stories in science fiction.is a stronger assertion than the cited source supports. What the source (written in 1963) says is that it "can take its place as a fixture in the genre." and "Hyper-space goes back a very long way in the annals of sf, back into the '20s at least".
Murray Leinster is credited with using the word "hyper-drive" for the first time in a preview for his upcoming story in Thrilling Wonder Stories 1944: "Once again Kim takes off in the Starshine with its hyper-drive to do battle in defense of the Second Galaxy."is a stronger assertion than the cited source supports. The source does not mention Leinster in connection to this quote and while this is the earliest example listed, the source does not assert that it is the first use. The Historical Dictionary of Science Fiction is explicitly a work-in-progress.
As related vocabulary evolved, entering the hyperspace often became known as "jumping", as in "the ship will now jump to hyperspace".is as far as I can tell a misreading of the cited source, which says "if the method of entry into hyper-space has changed but little, then the method of its navigation has changed even less. The classic method is that of 'jumps' [...]" My reading of this is that jumps relate to the latter (navigation) rather than the former (entry).
From the 1930s through to the 1950s, many stories in the science fiction magazines, Amazing Stories and Astounding Science Fiction introduced readers to hyperspace as a fourth spatial dimensionis not supported by either of the cited sources. The timeframe isn't supported and the specific magazines aren't mentioned. As for hyperspace being a fourth spatial dimension, it would better reflect the sources to say that (this model of) hyperspace has rather than is additional dimensions and to avoid specifying the number (though the sources are a bit inconsistent about this).
an idea that the three-dimensional space can be "folded", so that two apparently distant points may come into contactis WP:Close paraphrasing and should be rephrased.
three-dimensional space can be "folded", so that two separate points may come into contactis still WP:Close paraphrasing.
a special device, often called a "hyperdrive"is not supported by the cited sources.
Another common explanation involves the concept of a parallel universe, much smaller than ours, which partially or fully can be " mapped" into ours, through which the objects travel through to return to our universe.needs copyediting for clarity.
Another common explanation involves the concept of a parallel universe, much smaller than ours, which partially or fully can be " mapped" into ours, through which the objects travel through much faster than they could in our universe.still needs copyediting for clarity.
Other notable early works employing this concept include Nelson Bond's The Scientific Pioneer Returns (1940), where his vision of the hyperspace concept is described in detail. Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, first published between 1942 and 1944 in Astounding, featured a Galactic Empire traversed through hyperspace.is not really supported by the cited source, which says that
[hyperspace] was still sufficiently unfamiliar to be foregrounded as a novel idea in Nelson S. Bond's "The Scientific Pioneer Returns" (1940)and doesn't mention Asimov at all.
Asimov's short story Little Lost Robot (1947) features a "Hyperatomic Drive" shortened to "Hyperdrive" and observes that "fooling around with hyper-space isn't fun".That it is shortened to "hyperdrive" is not mentioned by the source, and the quote isn't either (though the latter could trivially be sourced to the work itself). I would suggest removing this altogether—the relevance of this particular example is questionable and paragraph is too Asimov-heavy as it is.
In Isaac Asimov's Foundation (1951), hyperspace is described as an "...unimaginable region that was neither space nor time, matter nor energy, something nor nothing, one could traverse the length of the Galaxy in the interval between two neighboring instants of time."I'm not sure about the placement of this. What is it meant to illustrate?
E. C. Tubb has been credited with "furthering much of the hyper-space lore"The actual quote from the cited source is
A British author who has done much to further hyper-space lore is E. C. Tubb., so the quotation marks are inappropriate since it isn't a direct quote. I would probably rephrase it along the lines of
E. C. Tubb has been credited with playing an important role in the development of hyperspace lore(I also note that the other source says things like
British author E.C. Tubb has probably written more about hyper-space than any other author.,
In two years, Tubb proceeded to make hyper-space his own, and
Tubb came up with several new slants).
More to come later. TompaDompa ( talk) 03:53, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
was still sufficiently unfamiliar to be foregrounded as a novel idea in Nelson S. Bond's "The Scientific Pioneer Returns" (1940). The current phrasing makes it sound like both the introduction and the widespread adoption of the concept happened earlier than it did. TompaDompa ( talk) 16:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Additional comments:
By the 1950s, hyperspace travel had become established as a typical means for traveling in science fiction.is not supported by the cited source.
Out of various fictitious drives, by the mid-70s the concept of travelling through hyperspace by using a hyperdrive has been described as having achieved the most popularity, and would subsequently be further popularized through its use in the Star Wars franchise.is not supported by the cited sources.
A number of related terms (such as nulspace, overspace, interspace, jumpspace, imaginary space, tau-space, N-Space, Q-space, intersplit, megaflow and slipstream, to name just a few) were used by various writers, although none gained recognition to rival that of hyperspace.should mention subspace. I couldn't find "jumpspace" in the cited sources. It seems that "intersplit" is actually called "Jarnell intersplit". "Slipstream" is not equated with hyperspace in the source it appears. The phrase "to name just a few" should be removed.
However, in the Star Trek franchise, the term hyperspace itself is only used briefly in a single episode (Coming of Age) of Star Trek: The Next Generation, while a related set of terms - subspace (corridors, vortex), space warp, underspace and transwarp (conduits) - are used much more often.unduly emphasizes Star Trek and isn't entirely supported by the cited sources. I would just remove this.
TompaDompa ( talk) 16:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
One of the earliest FTL (faster than light) drives that writers developed is also the one that has achieved the most widespread popularity in the genre – the use of hyper-space.from The Visual Encyclopedia of Science Fiction (1977). I don't know that I would call 1977 the mid-70s, but more importantly, the current phrasing makes it sound like the hyperdrive is the most popular way of travelling through hyperspace rather than hyperspace being the most popular method of travelling faster than light (which is what I'm assuming is meant). The sentence should probably be rephrased to clarify this."Slipstream" is mentioned here as one of five faster-than-light methods of travel, the other four being hyperdrive, jump drive, wormholes, and warp drive. That's only related to hyperspace inasmuch as both are methods of travelling faster than light, which isn't really sufficient for inclusion as a related term. I don't think the "jump" footnote has any place here. TompaDompa ( talk) 18:34, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Sorry this is taking so long. Additional comments:
feature earliest known references– missing definite article.
Bulking that trend– I believe the phrase is " bucking the trend", but it is at any rate too informal and idiomatic a phrasing.
the earliest use of the word "hyper-drive"– the earliest known use, to be more accurate.
(in particular, theory of relativity)– should explain how (it's the issue of causality I mentioned above). It should also either be "relativity theory" or "the theory of relativity".
aptly originated in 19th century mathematical texts– "aptly" is out of place here, and "19th-century" should have a hyphen when used attributively.
theoretical physicist Michio Kaku's popular science book ( Hyperspace, 1994)– I might say "[...] 1994 popular science book Hyperspace", but "[...] popular science book Hyperspace (1994)" is also acceptable and more consistent with the rest of the article. The title shouldn't be inside the parentheses, however.
Some science fiction writers attempted pseudo-scientific rubber science explanations of this concept, or mixed it with real scientific concepts such as higher dimensions, relativity or string theory.– I would say "quasi-scientific" rather than "pseudo-scientific", and remove everything after the comma (it doesn't seem to be entirely supported by the sources and is at any rate a bit redundant to the rubber science description).
Exceptions do exist, for example, in John Russel Fearn's Waters of Eternity (1953) has hyperspace that resembles the known universe, and contains observable objects like entire planets.– this is an anacoluthon. Either remove "has" or "in" and "that". It should also be mentioned that regular space is visible from a different (higher-dimensional) perspective from within hyperspace (the source says
[...] a picture of his fourth dimension wherein the worlds of normal space are also visible. Not for him the convenient grey mist, wherein our own universe vanishes.) in addition to hyperspace containing things not found in regular space.
In some works, hyperspace is a source of energy, in some cases, extremely dangerous– repetitive phrasing.
Many stories feature hyperspace as a dangerous place, and others require a ship to follow set hyperspatial "highways". Hyperspace is often described as being an unnavigable dimension where straying from a preset course can be disastrous.– this seems to go beyond what is supported by the cited sources.
James P. Hogan observed that (as of 1999) hyperspace still remains underutilized in science-fiction writing, treated too often as a plot-enabling gadget rather than as a fascinating, world-changing item– this goes beyond what Hogan actually says and inappropriately frames his opinions as facts.
TompaDompa ( talk) 23:04, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
It seemed to me that they had become something of a cliche, tacitly accepted by writers and readers alike as merely a device to shortcut Einstein by moving characters from here to there fast to get on with the story... But wait a minute. We're talking about a capability that transcends not only any technology imaginable today, but also our most fundamental theoretical beliefs. Never mind getting across the galaxy to save the blonde or deliver the villain his comeuppances—how did they discover "hyperspace" to begin with? Surely, there's a much more interesting story right here, which we were about to gloss over. [...] Nobody I talked to had seen a story about how hyperspace came to be discovered.The current phrasing makes a stronger statement and frames it as fact rather than opinion ("observed" is a MOS:Word to watch for this reason). TompaDompa ( talk) 14:19, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Additional comments:
a concept from science fiction and cutting-edge science– the latter doesn't really reflect either the article or the sources. The term appears in science, but the concept is a different story. We mustn't equivocate.
relating to higher dimensions and a superluminal method of interstellar travel– "superluminal" is too opaque to use in the WP:LEAD (even when linked), which is supposed to be accessible to a degree not required for the rest of the article. "Faster-than-light" would be an acceptable replacement (which should still be linked).
It is related to the concept of four-dimensional space, first described in the 19th century.– this is a bit redundant to mentioning higher dimensions and getting a bit off-topic. The history of the mathematical literature on four-dimensional space is not WP:LEAD material in an article about a science fiction method of travelling through space.
Its use in science fiction originated in the magazine Amazing Stories Quarterly around the 1930s– the specific magazine would seem to imply that Campbell's Islands of Space is counted as the definite origin (Meadowcroft's "The Invisible Bubble" was in a different magazine) whereas the vague time frame seems to indicate that it isn't.
It is typically described as an alternative "sub-region" of space co-existing with our own universe.– it is not clear what this means. This sentence could probably be removed, since the next sentence begins
In much of science fiction, hyperspace is described as a physical place that can be entered and exited [...].
using a rubber science energy field or similar phenomena generated by a shipboard device often known as a "hyperdrive".– the body of the article doesn't mention energy fields and " shipboard" is kind of an WP:EASTEREGG.
Detailed descriptions of the mechanisms of hyperspace travel are often provided in stories using the plot device– "often" is highly questionable.
sometimes incorporating some actual physics such as relativity or string theory.– should be removed (see my comments about the corresponding sentence in the body, above).
Philip Harbottle called the concepts "one of the fixtures" of the science fiction genre as early as in 1963.– this is at the very least out of place. Could perhaps be incorporated in the first paragraph as an indication of why the topic is noteworthy.
Many stories [...] called a "hyperdrive".– this sentence has six commas.
TompaDompa ( talk) 01:02, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
I have struck through resolved issues to keep track of what has yet to be done. Some of the ones I haven't struck through may also have been resolved; I'll take a closer look later. I'll also take a closer look at the new material. Some more comments:
A notable exception is the popular Star Trek franchise, where the term hyperspace itself is only used briefly in a single episode ( Coming of Age) of Star Trek: The Next Generation– "popular" should be removed per WP:WTW. The title of the episode should be in quotes and the title of the series in italics. I think mentioning Star Trek as an exception to the terminology is barely in keeping with our WP:Core content policies (considering Science Fact and Science Fiction: An Encyclopedia says
many writers preferred "subspace", the term ultimately adopted in the Star Trek TV series for the realm into which the "warp field" projected around starships extends), but I can't see that calling it a notable exception is justified based on the sources.
a related set of terms - subspace, space warp, and transwarp - are used much more often– the cited sources don't mention "space warp" or "transwarp" being used by Star Trek.
TompaDompa ( talk) 18:34, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I've done some more editing of my own. Some clarifications:
TompaDompa ( talk) 01:20, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
In some works, travelling or navigating hyperspace requires not only specialized equipment, but physical or psychological modifications of passengers or at least navigators, as seen in Frank Herbert's Dune (1965), Michael Moorcock's The Sundered Worlds (1966), Vonda McIntyre's Aztecs (1977), or David Brin's The Warm Space (1985).to a different section). TompaDompa ( talk) 00:28, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
For others, however, it is just a convenient MacGuffin enabling faster-than-light travel necessary for their story.and
One of the main reasons for the adoption of the concept are the limitations of faster-than-light travel in ordinary space, which the hyperspace trope allowed writers to bypass.should probably be combined, for instance). I have experimented quite a bit more with the layout, done some copyediting, and added a picture of a crumpled piece of paper (which obviously isn't the best illustration of the folding model, but it's something). If you think I went too far with any of this, you may undo it. TompaDompa ( talk) 01:33, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
I will update this as the article is edited further. TompaDompa ( talk) 01:02, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
I have removed the following paragraph, which appears more or less sound but is not properly referenced and I couldn't find good refs for it. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:05, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Though the concept of hyperspace did not emerge until the 20th century, along with space travel as a whole, stories of an unseen realm outside our normal world are part of earliest oral tradition. Some stories, before the development of the science fiction genre, feature space travel using a fictional existence outside what humans normally observe. For example, in Somnium (published 1634), Johannes Kepler tells of magic travel to the moon with the help of demons.Note: Somniumis mentioned in http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/space_flight
It would be nice to have such a picture, if anyone feels like drawing it? I looked for free images but didn't see anything particularly useful that and properly licenced :( Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:24, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
Theleekycauldron (
talk) 09:19, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Piotrus ( talk) and TomapDoma ( talk). Nominated by Piotrus ( talk) at 11:08, 14 February 2022 (UTC).
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The current organization of the article is kind of useless, as it gives no sense of the history or development of the concept, just giving a bunch of different uses of it in apparently random order. Wouldn't it make sense to (at least) put all these usages in chronological order, if not to actually try to determine what the original usage of the term is? john k 23:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I just undid a revision that removed real world references within this fictional topic. The reason I did so was because the article has problems with being written largely in an "in-universe" (fictional) style. Reducing those complaints (tags), I feel, means providing as many out-of-universe (real world) references as we can. The editor's argument was "redundant". While I can agree the text is "a bit excessive" (not quite redundant), it's there for a good reason, I believe. — Aladdin Sane ( talk) 15:25, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Why are all these diferent fictional universes listed here ? This topic should be better organized and the specifi information moved to the correct location in the series/universe tree. — Written by anonymous (200.198.94.130) 2006-05-30 01:55:34
Tagged for cleanup due to spelling errors, use of first person, original "research", in-universe presentation, etc. 71.232.57.59 04:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
The Erma Felna section is just plain wrong. Chrisweuve ( talk) 11:44, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Many parts of this article confuse the concepts of hyperspace (a high-dimensional space) with subspace (a lower dimensional space). Subspace, as used in science fiction such as Cordwainer Smith or presumably Star Trek, is based on a sending artifacts or messages through a spatial dimension below or under normal 3D space. Hyperspace is used to send artifacts or message through a spatial dimension above normal 3D space. These are two distinct concepts that have been conflated in this article. Either subspace concepts should be moved to a separate article or the title should be changed to indicate the article deals with a variety of fictional concepts about space time including both hyperspace and subspace. Steevithak ( talk) 16:19, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
I've been looking though the examples with an eye for quality. Generally they run the gambit of ways to need improvement. That's not preternaturally great, given that the page as it exists also needs some changes to help length and writing style (removing the personal essay feel). Since both the examples and the page are in need of work, it seems like having them both together makes the page much more disorganized than could otherwise be achieved by having the pages separate. I really like the dedication that when into the example section, nor do I think it's off topic in spirit, only it makes the Hyperspace page too long. I'd really like to see the example section get the fine tuning that it needs. I think separating the two pages, Hyperspace and List of Hyperspace Depictions in Science Fiction, would help achieve a more concise reading experience.
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This section of Talk has been moved to Talk:List of Hyperspace Depictions in Science Fiction.
Well the splitting off of a list didn't last long, but it was just a massive list of in-universe fancruft which didn't deserve to survive. However, I rather feel that the article was lacking any useful examples, which is the opposite extreme. I have inserted some significant cinematic examples to the Later depictions section, written from a MOS:REALWORLD perspective, along with citations, which give the article a little more depth. The rest of that section is still unsourced WP:OR and could safely be deleted - whoever wrote that stuff clearly has no intention of adding sources. Cnbrb ( talk) 14:51, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Just added a merge notice at the top. People are more likely to look under Hyperspace than Hyperdrive, ya? Davidpk212 20:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
If the proposal has one more vote, I'll do the business and merge it. Davidpk212 18:34, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Merging, even though it didn't get another vote. Davidpk212 16:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
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I am done expanding/verifying content here with the sources I have access to, and I am not sure there is much left. There is still some ORish content here, which, while correct, needs referencing or removal. Ping User:TompaDompa, User:Daranios, User:Jclemens... if no-one can find refs for the content that I tagged as citation needed, it probably needs to go? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 23:55, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
I've redirectes Underspace from Star Trek here, because its a form of hyperspace. It's mentioned in the Star Trek Fact Files and the Star Trek Encylopedia. Maybe other source, that i don't have. It is therefore worth mentioning. -- Mark McWire ( talk) 22:19, 9 November 2021 (UTC) In addition, both compilations / books clearly count as secondary sources, no primary sources.-- Mark McWire ( talk) 22:20, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
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Reviewer: TompaDompa ( talk · contribs) 21:10, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
I'm planning to do a full review fairly soon, but here are some initial observations:
TompaDompa ( talk) 21:10, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
space travel using a fictional existence outside what humans normally observeare precursors to hyperspace is the kind of analysis that really needs to come from the sources. TompaDompa ( talk) 00:36, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Some additional comments:
The term hyperspace itself is only used as hyperspace physics test in episode Coming of Age of Star Trek: The Next Generation.is incorrectly formatted and missing a definite article, but should probably just be removed outright.
According to The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, Robert A. Heinlein gave a particularly clear description of it in Starman Jones (1953).is not particularly informative. The description used is discussed in The Science in Science Fiction and The Greenwood Encyclopedia of Science Fiction and Fantasy.
In Arthur C. Clarke's Technical Error (1950)should link to Technical Error and the title should be in quotes rather than italics since it seems to be a short story.
The reasons given for such restrictions are usually technobabble, but their existence is just a plot device allowing for interstellar policies to actually form and exist.is not as far as I can see supported by either of the cited sources.
I'll keep adding comments as I go. TompaDompa ( talk) 00:44, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Additional comments:
From early 20th century onward, hyperspace became a common element of space travel stories in science fiction.is a stronger assertion than the cited source supports. What the source (written in 1963) says is that it "can take its place as a fixture in the genre." and "Hyper-space goes back a very long way in the annals of sf, back into the '20s at least".
Murray Leinster is credited with using the word "hyper-drive" for the first time in a preview for his upcoming story in Thrilling Wonder Stories 1944: "Once again Kim takes off in the Starshine with its hyper-drive to do battle in defense of the Second Galaxy."is a stronger assertion than the cited source supports. The source does not mention Leinster in connection to this quote and while this is the earliest example listed, the source does not assert that it is the first use. The Historical Dictionary of Science Fiction is explicitly a work-in-progress.
As related vocabulary evolved, entering the hyperspace often became known as "jumping", as in "the ship will now jump to hyperspace".is as far as I can tell a misreading of the cited source, which says "if the method of entry into hyper-space has changed but little, then the method of its navigation has changed even less. The classic method is that of 'jumps' [...]" My reading of this is that jumps relate to the latter (navigation) rather than the former (entry).
From the 1930s through to the 1950s, many stories in the science fiction magazines, Amazing Stories and Astounding Science Fiction introduced readers to hyperspace as a fourth spatial dimensionis not supported by either of the cited sources. The timeframe isn't supported and the specific magazines aren't mentioned. As for hyperspace being a fourth spatial dimension, it would better reflect the sources to say that (this model of) hyperspace has rather than is additional dimensions and to avoid specifying the number (though the sources are a bit inconsistent about this).
an idea that the three-dimensional space can be "folded", so that two apparently distant points may come into contactis WP:Close paraphrasing and should be rephrased.
three-dimensional space can be "folded", so that two separate points may come into contactis still WP:Close paraphrasing.
a special device, often called a "hyperdrive"is not supported by the cited sources.
Another common explanation involves the concept of a parallel universe, much smaller than ours, which partially or fully can be " mapped" into ours, through which the objects travel through to return to our universe.needs copyediting for clarity.
Another common explanation involves the concept of a parallel universe, much smaller than ours, which partially or fully can be " mapped" into ours, through which the objects travel through much faster than they could in our universe.still needs copyediting for clarity.
Other notable early works employing this concept include Nelson Bond's The Scientific Pioneer Returns (1940), where his vision of the hyperspace concept is described in detail. Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, first published between 1942 and 1944 in Astounding, featured a Galactic Empire traversed through hyperspace.is not really supported by the cited source, which says that
[hyperspace] was still sufficiently unfamiliar to be foregrounded as a novel idea in Nelson S. Bond's "The Scientific Pioneer Returns" (1940)and doesn't mention Asimov at all.
Asimov's short story Little Lost Robot (1947) features a "Hyperatomic Drive" shortened to "Hyperdrive" and observes that "fooling around with hyper-space isn't fun".That it is shortened to "hyperdrive" is not mentioned by the source, and the quote isn't either (though the latter could trivially be sourced to the work itself). I would suggest removing this altogether—the relevance of this particular example is questionable and paragraph is too Asimov-heavy as it is.
In Isaac Asimov's Foundation (1951), hyperspace is described as an "...unimaginable region that was neither space nor time, matter nor energy, something nor nothing, one could traverse the length of the Galaxy in the interval between two neighboring instants of time."I'm not sure about the placement of this. What is it meant to illustrate?
E. C. Tubb has been credited with "furthering much of the hyper-space lore"The actual quote from the cited source is
A British author who has done much to further hyper-space lore is E. C. Tubb., so the quotation marks are inappropriate since it isn't a direct quote. I would probably rephrase it along the lines of
E. C. Tubb has been credited with playing an important role in the development of hyperspace lore(I also note that the other source says things like
British author E.C. Tubb has probably written more about hyper-space than any other author.,
In two years, Tubb proceeded to make hyper-space his own, and
Tubb came up with several new slants).
More to come later. TompaDompa ( talk) 03:53, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
was still sufficiently unfamiliar to be foregrounded as a novel idea in Nelson S. Bond's "The Scientific Pioneer Returns" (1940). The current phrasing makes it sound like both the introduction and the widespread adoption of the concept happened earlier than it did. TompaDompa ( talk) 16:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Additional comments:
By the 1950s, hyperspace travel had become established as a typical means for traveling in science fiction.is not supported by the cited source.
Out of various fictitious drives, by the mid-70s the concept of travelling through hyperspace by using a hyperdrive has been described as having achieved the most popularity, and would subsequently be further popularized through its use in the Star Wars franchise.is not supported by the cited sources.
A number of related terms (such as nulspace, overspace, interspace, jumpspace, imaginary space, tau-space, N-Space, Q-space, intersplit, megaflow and slipstream, to name just a few) were used by various writers, although none gained recognition to rival that of hyperspace.should mention subspace. I couldn't find "jumpspace" in the cited sources. It seems that "intersplit" is actually called "Jarnell intersplit". "Slipstream" is not equated with hyperspace in the source it appears. The phrase "to name just a few" should be removed.
However, in the Star Trek franchise, the term hyperspace itself is only used briefly in a single episode (Coming of Age) of Star Trek: The Next Generation, while a related set of terms - subspace (corridors, vortex), space warp, underspace and transwarp (conduits) - are used much more often.unduly emphasizes Star Trek and isn't entirely supported by the cited sources. I would just remove this.
TompaDompa ( talk) 16:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
One of the earliest FTL (faster than light) drives that writers developed is also the one that has achieved the most widespread popularity in the genre – the use of hyper-space.from The Visual Encyclopedia of Science Fiction (1977). I don't know that I would call 1977 the mid-70s, but more importantly, the current phrasing makes it sound like the hyperdrive is the most popular way of travelling through hyperspace rather than hyperspace being the most popular method of travelling faster than light (which is what I'm assuming is meant). The sentence should probably be rephrased to clarify this."Slipstream" is mentioned here as one of five faster-than-light methods of travel, the other four being hyperdrive, jump drive, wormholes, and warp drive. That's only related to hyperspace inasmuch as both are methods of travelling faster than light, which isn't really sufficient for inclusion as a related term. I don't think the "jump" footnote has any place here. TompaDompa ( talk) 18:34, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Sorry this is taking so long. Additional comments:
feature earliest known references– missing definite article.
Bulking that trend– I believe the phrase is " bucking the trend", but it is at any rate too informal and idiomatic a phrasing.
the earliest use of the word "hyper-drive"– the earliest known use, to be more accurate.
(in particular, theory of relativity)– should explain how (it's the issue of causality I mentioned above). It should also either be "relativity theory" or "the theory of relativity".
aptly originated in 19th century mathematical texts– "aptly" is out of place here, and "19th-century" should have a hyphen when used attributively.
theoretical physicist Michio Kaku's popular science book ( Hyperspace, 1994)– I might say "[...] 1994 popular science book Hyperspace", but "[...] popular science book Hyperspace (1994)" is also acceptable and more consistent with the rest of the article. The title shouldn't be inside the parentheses, however.
Some science fiction writers attempted pseudo-scientific rubber science explanations of this concept, or mixed it with real scientific concepts such as higher dimensions, relativity or string theory.– I would say "quasi-scientific" rather than "pseudo-scientific", and remove everything after the comma (it doesn't seem to be entirely supported by the sources and is at any rate a bit redundant to the rubber science description).
Exceptions do exist, for example, in John Russel Fearn's Waters of Eternity (1953) has hyperspace that resembles the known universe, and contains observable objects like entire planets.– this is an anacoluthon. Either remove "has" or "in" and "that". It should also be mentioned that regular space is visible from a different (higher-dimensional) perspective from within hyperspace (the source says
[...] a picture of his fourth dimension wherein the worlds of normal space are also visible. Not for him the convenient grey mist, wherein our own universe vanishes.) in addition to hyperspace containing things not found in regular space.
In some works, hyperspace is a source of energy, in some cases, extremely dangerous– repetitive phrasing.
Many stories feature hyperspace as a dangerous place, and others require a ship to follow set hyperspatial "highways". Hyperspace is often described as being an unnavigable dimension where straying from a preset course can be disastrous.– this seems to go beyond what is supported by the cited sources.
James P. Hogan observed that (as of 1999) hyperspace still remains underutilized in science-fiction writing, treated too often as a plot-enabling gadget rather than as a fascinating, world-changing item– this goes beyond what Hogan actually says and inappropriately frames his opinions as facts.
TompaDompa ( talk) 23:04, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
It seemed to me that they had become something of a cliche, tacitly accepted by writers and readers alike as merely a device to shortcut Einstein by moving characters from here to there fast to get on with the story... But wait a minute. We're talking about a capability that transcends not only any technology imaginable today, but also our most fundamental theoretical beliefs. Never mind getting across the galaxy to save the blonde or deliver the villain his comeuppances—how did they discover "hyperspace" to begin with? Surely, there's a much more interesting story right here, which we were about to gloss over. [...] Nobody I talked to had seen a story about how hyperspace came to be discovered.The current phrasing makes a stronger statement and frames it as fact rather than opinion ("observed" is a MOS:Word to watch for this reason). TompaDompa ( talk) 14:19, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Additional comments:
a concept from science fiction and cutting-edge science– the latter doesn't really reflect either the article or the sources. The term appears in science, but the concept is a different story. We mustn't equivocate.
relating to higher dimensions and a superluminal method of interstellar travel– "superluminal" is too opaque to use in the WP:LEAD (even when linked), which is supposed to be accessible to a degree not required for the rest of the article. "Faster-than-light" would be an acceptable replacement (which should still be linked).
It is related to the concept of four-dimensional space, first described in the 19th century.– this is a bit redundant to mentioning higher dimensions and getting a bit off-topic. The history of the mathematical literature on four-dimensional space is not WP:LEAD material in an article about a science fiction method of travelling through space.
Its use in science fiction originated in the magazine Amazing Stories Quarterly around the 1930s– the specific magazine would seem to imply that Campbell's Islands of Space is counted as the definite origin (Meadowcroft's "The Invisible Bubble" was in a different magazine) whereas the vague time frame seems to indicate that it isn't.
It is typically described as an alternative "sub-region" of space co-existing with our own universe.– it is not clear what this means. This sentence could probably be removed, since the next sentence begins
In much of science fiction, hyperspace is described as a physical place that can be entered and exited [...].
using a rubber science energy field or similar phenomena generated by a shipboard device often known as a "hyperdrive".– the body of the article doesn't mention energy fields and " shipboard" is kind of an WP:EASTEREGG.
Detailed descriptions of the mechanisms of hyperspace travel are often provided in stories using the plot device– "often" is highly questionable.
sometimes incorporating some actual physics such as relativity or string theory.– should be removed (see my comments about the corresponding sentence in the body, above).
Philip Harbottle called the concepts "one of the fixtures" of the science fiction genre as early as in 1963.– this is at the very least out of place. Could perhaps be incorporated in the first paragraph as an indication of why the topic is noteworthy.
Many stories [...] called a "hyperdrive".– this sentence has six commas.
TompaDompa ( talk) 01:02, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
I have struck through resolved issues to keep track of what has yet to be done. Some of the ones I haven't struck through may also have been resolved; I'll take a closer look later. I'll also take a closer look at the new material. Some more comments:
A notable exception is the popular Star Trek franchise, where the term hyperspace itself is only used briefly in a single episode ( Coming of Age) of Star Trek: The Next Generation– "popular" should be removed per WP:WTW. The title of the episode should be in quotes and the title of the series in italics. I think mentioning Star Trek as an exception to the terminology is barely in keeping with our WP:Core content policies (considering Science Fact and Science Fiction: An Encyclopedia says
many writers preferred "subspace", the term ultimately adopted in the Star Trek TV series for the realm into which the "warp field" projected around starships extends), but I can't see that calling it a notable exception is justified based on the sources.
a related set of terms - subspace, space warp, and transwarp - are used much more often– the cited sources don't mention "space warp" or "transwarp" being used by Star Trek.
TompaDompa ( talk) 18:34, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I've done some more editing of my own. Some clarifications:
TompaDompa ( talk) 01:20, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
In some works, travelling or navigating hyperspace requires not only specialized equipment, but physical or psychological modifications of passengers or at least navigators, as seen in Frank Herbert's Dune (1965), Michael Moorcock's The Sundered Worlds (1966), Vonda McIntyre's Aztecs (1977), or David Brin's The Warm Space (1985).to a different section). TompaDompa ( talk) 00:28, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
For others, however, it is just a convenient MacGuffin enabling faster-than-light travel necessary for their story.and
One of the main reasons for the adoption of the concept are the limitations of faster-than-light travel in ordinary space, which the hyperspace trope allowed writers to bypass.should probably be combined, for instance). I have experimented quite a bit more with the layout, done some copyediting, and added a picture of a crumpled piece of paper (which obviously isn't the best illustration of the folding model, but it's something). If you think I went too far with any of this, you may undo it. TompaDompa ( talk) 01:33, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
I will update this as the article is edited further. TompaDompa ( talk) 01:02, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
I have removed the following paragraph, which appears more or less sound but is not properly referenced and I couldn't find good refs for it. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:05, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Though the concept of hyperspace did not emerge until the 20th century, along with space travel as a whole, stories of an unseen realm outside our normal world are part of earliest oral tradition. Some stories, before the development of the science fiction genre, feature space travel using a fictional existence outside what humans normally observe. For example, in Somnium (published 1634), Johannes Kepler tells of magic travel to the moon with the help of demons.Note: Somniumis mentioned in http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/space_flight
It would be nice to have such a picture, if anyone feels like drawing it? I looked for free images but didn't see anything particularly useful that and properly licenced :( Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:24, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
Theleekycauldron (
talk) 09:19, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Piotrus ( talk) and TomapDoma ( talk). Nominated by Piotrus ( talk) at 11:08, 14 February 2022 (UTC).
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