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"Today, the consensus among linguists ..." Consensus is a POLITICAL term. Science is based on EVIDENCE therefore there is no need or room for consensus. If there is a consensus between 'scientists', they are not scientist and the outcome is politically motivated.
I'm not a linguistics, thus merely wondering why do you call the vocabulary section "Lexicon"? It sounds very strange.
---
| A few months back I added this statement to the Lexicon section:
Therefore the history of Hungarian has come, especially since the 19th century, to favor neologisms from original bases, whilst still having developed as many terms from neighboring languages in the lexicon.
This was added upon reviewing the sources cited in that section which include the list of vocabulary origins and loanwords. I also kept in mind the factors of historical purism in Hungarian during the 19th century, as well as the conservative nature of the grammar as contributing to the argument that Hungarian has become a more purist language than most in Central Europe.
I do find the statistic of "80%" of the lexicon being Uralic hard to believe; not even German and Lithuanian could have such a high percentage of native words over loans, but I assume the findings of that research stand.
What's the consensus here on my addition? Should it be supported with citations or do the above sources already work?| CormanoSanchez ( talk) 16:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
|Yes; I believe a reasonable estimate would be 25% Uralic, 30% at most| CormanoSanchez ( talk) 15:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
There is an interesting study showing the comparison of the ancient Jurchen language with Hungarian and Mongolian. I think it is worth taking a look at. http://www.iacd.or.kr/pdf/journal/04/4-02.pdf
The presence of Tungusic words in Hungarian cannot be explained by the "Uralic Theory". Even if it were assumed that Magyars borrowed words from Turks, many of these Tungusic words (also the same in Manchu) are different than in Turkic, so how Hungarian shares these words is unexplainable by this theory. The Xianbei and Xiongnu not only had cultural exchanges, but genetic ones as well. The Xianbei were also a Tungusic-speaking people. I wonder if this could explain the similarities. -- Xiaogoudelaohu ( talk) 06:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
This statement seems an anachronism from Cold War times when we in the West were quite ignorant of what lay beyond the borders of the Soviet Union. Actually if Hungarian is related to Finnish it must also be related to Karelian, Estonian, Udmurt, Mari and other languages still spoken in the Baltic countries and in European Russia. LADave ( talk) 17:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Well, that certainly is not a comprehensive list of most European languages. 220.253.216.28 ( talk) 06:09, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
In Hungary there lives many nations: Magyars, Slovaks, etc. There are not "Hun" people. There are many languages. There is not Hungarian language. There are Magyar, Slovak, Roman (or Romanian), etc. -- 195.228.142.2 ( talk) 10:27, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
This article isn't about ethnic groups in Hungary. That information belongs in the article Hungary, not here. This article is just about the Hungarian language. The word "Magyar" has three different, distinct meanings: 1) An ethnic Hungarian (whether he/she still speaks Hungarian or not), 2) A citizen of Hungary (whether he/she is ethnically Hungarian or not), 3) The Hungarian language. In this article, the word only refers to the name of the language, not to either the ethnicity or the citizenship, so the discussion of "Not all Magyars (citizens of Hungary or ethnically Hungarian) speak Hungarian" is really moot. -- Taivo ( talk) 12:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
And there is a common Surname "Magyar" — Preceding unsigned comment added by TopSpeeder ( talk • contribs) 20:52, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/09/jobbik-wants-revision-of-finno-ugric.html 70.59.22.166 ( talk) 14:49, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
To become a "Hungarian academic" you must agree, if you don't then you are side-listed and outcast from the academic community. you hardly can publish anything (negative peer reviews) and if you can't publish then nobody takes you seriously so you became outcast >> vicious circle — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.230.130.195 ( talk) 22:03, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
It is unfortunate but it is not fringe theory. It has been a political practice to psychologically reduce the history of a nation (i.e. Hungarian/Magyar history) by the Habsburgs to better control socio/economic parameters of the affected peoples. Because the western influence and interpreted views of biased political systems and because Hungarian nation was never as advanced in the art of propaganda as being a people seeing less value and less honorable actions in such tactics, the overwhelming side-affects bring out the un-accepting views of people who experience comments and views from Hungarian indiviuals, politicians, writers, poets and historians. user:guest 17:14, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
"but neither their prefixes, nor their suffixes make sense (for example, hercehurca 'long-lasting, frusteredly done deed')." well technicaly hurca does makes sense it comes from verb "hurcolni" means dragging some thing away so hurca means his act to dragg things away... (have no other example to replace however) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.206.228.161 ( talk) 10:25, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
(There used to be a separate word for "elder sister", néne, but it has become obsolete [except to mean "aunt" in some dialects] and has been replaced by the generic word for "sister".)
This is not very accurate. Néne is a short form of nagynéni (aunt). Bácsi (the husband of aunt) is not used for the short form of uncle (nagybáty or nagybácsi).
ki (who)
nővéred (your elder sister)
nagynéni (aunt)
nagynénik (aunts)
nagynénéd (your aunt)
nagynénéid (your aunts)
nénéd (short form of 'your aunt')
nénéid (short form of 'your aunts')
nagybácsi (uncle)
nagybácsik (uncles)
nagybátyád (your uncle)
nagybátyáid (your uncles)
And so far:
kisöcs (sibling or younger brother)
nagytestvér (sibling or elder brother "big brother")
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Brtkr (
talk •
contribs) 23:03, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
I Corrected the legeslegmegszentségteleníttethetetlenebbjeitekként to legeslegmegszentségtelenítetthetetlenebbjeitekként. The ut ít suffix is excist but ítt is not and the past participle sign is the double t not the single. (I'm not a grammer genius so I'm not sure about the suffix names but I'm tottally sure about what form is correct) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.164.207.246 ( talk) 12:43, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I do not really agree with the statement that `if Hungarian orthography was totally consistent, <gy> would have been written as <dy> instead.' As far as I know, the "g" sound in English "argue" is a better approximation to the palatal consonant /ɟ/ than the "d+y" sounds in British "duke" or American "would you". Though I am not a native speaker of Hungarian, I was corrected when pronouncing <gy> as the latter. However, this must be confirmed by an expert prior to changing the article. Podgorec ( talk) 13:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
It is <gy>, because it was originally [ʥ], and Italian guys who created the ortography thought it's best to mark it with gy, which is 'palatal g'. This is effectively the same as soft g in Italian: bonGiorno, for example. 212.24.189.120 ( talk) 18:22, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello, your edit [ [9]] of adding the word later to the phrase The Hungarians migrated to the Carpathian Basin around 896 and came into contact with Slavic peoples – later as well as with the Romance speaking Vlachs,
Also this data has a reference, modifying data that is supported by a reference without adding some sources may be considered WP:OR and please try to WP:AGF assume good faith. I am not provoking you, I am genuinely asking why are you modifying this data. Adrian ( talk) 22:27, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
StasMalyga - I think that the main problem is that KIENGIR is not an experienced wikipedian. I think that we are close to solving this problem.
KIENGIR - You wrote a lot of data but without any evidence for them. I am not saying this data is false but how can I know it is valid? For this reason we must use valid sources. Let`s put aside this discussion just for a moment and we will continue it.
Please consider this: For example, I claim that Lima is the Capital of Peru - and you disagree with this statement. For now, I am just saying it, there is nothing to back-me-up right? It is just my word against yours. As such I can`t do anything because I must give an evidence for my statement and you have every right to remove this info or contest it until I prove it.
When talking about any problem on talk pages we also must provide evidence for what we are saying for the same reasons.
Now if I say again that Lima is the Capital of Peru and I present this source [12] where if you click on it it opens a web page. When you search this web page, you can find info that I am claiming to be valid. I hope I managed to explain it. If you don`t understand something, please ask.
For the continuance of our discussion regarding this article (Hungarian language), you claim various things but without links to prove it.
I would suggest the solution number 1, but only if solution number 3 you suggested really hasn`t have a valid source. I suggest to keep it simple. I think solution number 3 would be the best, but only if is verifiable, if not then I would go for number 1. If you have a source for adding Later or anything similar that we can rephrase it according to the source, please provide a link here so everybody can check for it`s validity and consider this data adding to the article. Greetings. Adrian ( talk) 13:05, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
I am sorry but I don`t believe that is according to sources that state both theories. This is just another way to say "later". I will change back the article to the version established by changes made by 3 other editors (Fakirbakir,Hgilbert,Taivo) and me. If that doesn`t works either then it is best to delete this whole sentence to avoid any possible conflict. Adrian ( talk) 22:51, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
In the section dealing with historical relationships with other languages, only lexical items are mentioned--no mention is made about syntactic similarities (agglutination, etc.). Other sections are similarly sloppy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.60.7.34 ( talk) 22:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Recently, the number of native speakers was changed. The new source [14] is *website* and it claims that there are 12,319,330 native Hungarian speakers. It is based on data from the 2001 census, does not claim other sources. Moreover, the simple fact that it gives such a precise number (ending with 330!) makes it a bit dubious. I think it was based on some census data from the Carpathian Basin. To improve the article, I have inserted some more recent sources which talk about approximately 15 million [15] [16] Hungarian speakers. This can serve as an upper estimate. Cheers, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 21:27, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, Ethnologue does not understand the concept of significant figures. They think that 1,000 + 5 = 1,005, which is of course silly. But that's just a math error, and they do give all their sources, if you'd bother to look. Nearly all are censuses from 2001 and 2002. Hungarian is not a fast-growing language, so the numbers are probably similar today.
Our other ref is an encyclopedia that has spent some considerable effort trying to get current speaker numbers. Ethnologue says 12.3M for 2001–2002, Nationalencyklopedin says 12.7M for 2007. That's pretty good agreement. Your sources, however, leave something to be desired. One of them is on choral rehearsal and says that Hungarian seems to be related to Turkish and the Ural-Altaic family; for all we know the authors are as ignorant about demography as they are about linguistics. The book on language contact gives no date for the figures, and does not concentrate on such information. Both are therefore inferior sources. — kwami ( talk) 20:15, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
Ah, ELL2 gives 13.5M from some time before 2006. I've used all three as refs that the number is approx. 13M. — kwami ( talk) 20:24, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
We're back to edit warring over this. KœrteFa, you can't cherry-pick your sources to get the largest number possible. That's the definition of POV pushing. In fact, we follow the National Encyclopedia in most places to avoid precisely these arguments. Sources dedicated to speaker number agree on 13M. Therefore we report 13M.
This isn't about Hungarian. Everyone's out to exaggerate the importance of their language. Back when we did ranking, we had a huge fight with people claiming that English has more speakers than Spanish (you can support that too, if you pick your sources just right). Yesterday I reverted an increase in the Nepali population from 17M to 32M, and the Balochi pop from 7.6M to 10–15M. This is more of the same. We should not be choosing sources with the aim to promote the language. That's profoundly unencyclopedic.
You argue that we're not allowed to evaluate our sources. That's nonsense. WP policy requires us to evaluate our sources. — kwami ( talk) 21:10, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
I have found some other linguistic sources ( [32] [33] [34]) in addition to the two above. Taking these into account as well as Ethnologue [35], which presents the lowest estimate, I suggest giving the interval estimate 12.3–15 million in the infobox. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 16:11, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
I think the first discussion was here. It's come up several times since . (The spelling 's wrong sometimes .) I was opposed to it at first , but eventually came around .
Yes , it only lists the top languages , which tend to be the ones that are the most complicated to figure out . — kwami ( talk) 09:00, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm also restoring the classification. — kwami ( talk) 19:58, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Dear Kwamikagami, I am still waiting for a proper explanation which rationalizes your actions of removing the term "Finno-Ugric", despite being a mainstream theory and used my numerous recent linguistic works (published by reputable scientific publishers, such as Cambridge University Press, Indiana University Press, Wiley Blackwell, Springer, etc.). So: we should not use the term "Finno-Ugric", because...? Cheers, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 12:53, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
For the interested editors: the issue has been raised on the talk page of the Uralic languages article. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 12:25, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
The article " Topic-prominent language" currently lists Hungarian as an example of a topic-prominent language. I question this claim because topic-prominent languages (such as Japanese and Chinese) tend to have grammatical features which (AFAIK) are not characteristic of Hungarian — e.g., sentences with two "subjects" in the nominative case (one of which is in fact the topic of the sentence); a special case marking for the topic, distinct from that of the subject; and/or the lack of a reliable marking distinction for subject vs. object.
I think it would be helpful if some people who are much more familiar with Hungarian than I am could go look at this other article, and if Hungarian does in fact fall into the topic-prominent category, supply a citation to a reliable source from the linguistic literature if possible, or else supply an example sentence in Hungarian accompanied by an analysis demonstrating its topic-prominent character.
Please note that "topic-prominent" is not exactly the same as " topic-comment" (you may wish to read the separate article dealing with topic-comment). Hungarian definitely uses its flexible word order to identify topic vs. comment, but AFAIK it does so in the context of a nominative-accusative case alignment. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 22:47, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
We have an anon. IP adding generations to the kinship table. A while ago we had Serbs and Croats trying to outdo each other in kinship, resulting in something like sixteen generations in either direction, so I'm a bit suspicious of such claims. Anyone have a ref that such terms are actually in use in Hungarian? — kwami ( talk) 22:22, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
How do you come up with this statement? Almost 11 million of Turkish people lives in the European part of Turkey and plus there are up to 9 million Turkish speakers in various European countries which makes the Turkish speakers in Europe almost 20 million. The numbers may vary but Turkish (a non-Indo-European language) is definitely more spoken in Europe than Hungarian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baloglu ( talk • contribs) 16:50, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
I have removed this nonsensical claim. Turkish definitely has more speakers in Europe than Hungarian, and Arabic might have. Yes, somebody found a source claiming Hungarian as number one. Sources can be wrong as well, and in this case the source contradicts many other sources (such at Ethnologue). Just a few days ago Le Monce accidentally (I presume) wrote that Turkey and Egypt are almost entirely Christian. Obviously wrong (probably meant to write 'Muslim) but Le Monde is a trusted source. So should we edit those articles to claim the countries are majority Christian because we have a source saying so? Obviously not, because many other sources contradict the error. Same thing applies here. Jeppiz ( talk) 21:55, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
I consider it should worth mentioning the followings in the "Name order" section: if the name of a Hungarian person is used according to the Western name order in a Hungarian text, then it means a very serious insult. (For example: writing "Imre Kertész" instead of "Kertész Imre"). 82.131.220.47 ( talk) 18:24, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I think that the left-hand-side columns consists of 'infinitve's and right-hand-side the 'gerund's. ZJ ( talk) 14:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
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If the law that created regional language in Ukraine has been ruled unconstitutional how can that "doesn't change reality" that Hungarian is a recognised minority language in Ukraine Kostaki mou? As far as I know Swahili and Hungarian have the same legal status in Ukraine; being neither are recognised minority languages in Ukraine because there are no "recognised minority languages in Ukraine". Of course Hungarian is a minority language in Ukraine and Swahili is not. I would not object to mentioning Hungarian as a minority language in Ukraine (in the infobox of this article). But as far as I know there is no legal basis to claim Hungarian is a "recognised minority language in Ukraine". — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:36, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
As is well-known in linguistic circles, Hungarian belongs to the Ugric branch of the Uralic language family. This fact is established and has also been an established fact in this article for many years. However, a month ago, user Kwamikagami changed the first sentence of the article, writing that Hungarian being a part of the Ugric branch was increasingly doubted, but did not provide the article with any kind of source. User KIENGIR has had my edits reverted, although I have told him that a source must be provided. This user then tells me I should discuss the matter with Kwamikagami instead, informing me that he has written about this in several articles, all unbeknownst to me. Is this standard procedure? Stating that it is doubted that Hungarian belongs to the Ugric branch is a highly controversial statement. Either of these two, or both, are welcome to provide sources. I am a linguist myself and as far as I know, no claims about Hungarian not being a part of the Ugric branch has been widely accepted in linguistic circles in modern times. Perceptivity ( talk) 20:56, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
This will probably be the first time in a decade that I disagree with kwami, but Perceptivity is right. It is very easy to find multiple academic sources stating the Hungarian is a Finno-Ugric. Even as someone fairly familiar with the academic literature in the field, I have not seen anything but fringe disputes that that would be the case. It is true that science develops all the time, but if we are to challenge the academic consensus this far, providing good WP:RS is certainly a requirement. And to be clear: finding a couple of articles disputing it will not suffice (see WP:FRINGE. We need to establish that, at very least, a significant minority holds that view. Jeppiz ( talk) 22:01, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Perceptivity, you keep claiming that this is my POV, that I made these changes, but that is false. We had a discussion years ago and decided, as a community, to change the default classification of the Uralic languages on WP. This affected all the Uralic languages, not just Hungarian (though it always seems to be Hungarian that people get upset about), and has been the consensus now for years. It's not up to me to provide sources for that consensus, as you can refer to the old discussion (which is probably under either Uralic or FU). Rather, it is up to you to provide evidence that counters the sources used to achieve that consensus, one that will convince not just me but the others involved, assmuming they're still active on WP.
BTW, if you can demonstrate the validity of either Ugric, Ob-Ugric, Hungarian-Khanty or Hungarian-Mansi, that would actually simplify things for me in another project. So I'm not at all opposed to you demonstrating this -- I'd appreciate it, actually -- I just expect better evidence than sources copying each other for decades, an issue that was discussed when we came to the current consensus. — kwami ( talk) 00:01, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Jeppiz:, Finno-Ugric is another matter. That was abandoned across the board, because no-one has ever shown that the Samoyed languages form the primary split of the family. Rather, Samoyed was simple recognized as being related long after the Finno-Ugric languages had been established and proto-FU reconstructed. (There have also been suspicions that the exclusion of Samoyed was more racist than linguistic.) People do continue to use the term 'Finno-Ugric', but often simply as a synonym for 'Uralic', much as we continue to hear about 'Mon-Khmer' from sources that do not maintain that the Munda languages are necessarily the primary split of AA, where proto-FU is the same language as proto-Uralic, and proto-MK is the same language as proto-AA. If we do reinstitute FU, it will require updating all of the Uralic languages except Samoyed.
Also, although it's quite possible that Ugric will turn out to be valid, it may not include all three of the language clusters traditionally included in it, though as long as one of them is Hungarian that shouldn't matter much for this article. — kwami ( talk) 02:44, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Thanks to all of you for good comments. I should point out I have absolutely no personal preference in this apart from making sure we align with academic consensus. I did have a quick look at some other Finno-Ugric languages - they use the same family grouping as here. As Perceptivity says, I'd be very careful about a discussion on WP to override academic consensus, that is the definition of WP:OR. Not saying that's the case here but, while I completely trust that what kwami says is correct, we still need sources if we are going to contest the traditional classification; we cannot just decide to override it. Jeppiz ( talk) 16:49, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
No problem, Jeppiz.
BTW, of the sources we have from this century, all but Salminen (2002, 2007) accept the validity of Finno-Permic (Permian, Balto-Finnic, Sami, Mari, Mordvin). So we could reasonably re-institute that. As for Ugric, Kulonen (2002) and Lehtinen (2007) accept it, while Michalove (2002) and Janhunen (2009) do not. Michalove accepts Ob-Ugric but keeps Hungarian separate, Janhunen accepts Hungarian-Mansi but keeps Khanty separate, while Salminen doesn't accept any of it. So the similarities that led to the proposal for Ugric are still recognized, but there's disagreement as to what they mean. — kwami ( talk) 21:28, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
It seems this dispute is over. Perceptivity thanked me for cross-linking the infobox to the refs that were already in the article (and which they evidently never bothered to check, despite having them pointed out more than once), which happened when they did the reasonable thing of adding 'cn' tags where they had a problem, and is now celebrating that being "stubborn" (= edit-warring, lying, and being obstructionist) finally "paid off". Perceptivity, I hope you don't think that is a recipe for future success on WP, as a couple days of dealing with your obstructionism does not leave me favorably inclined to cooperate with you in the future, and a couple days of your bullshit has taught be that nothing you say can be believed. — kwami ( talk) 01:10, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
I think (but I'm not sure) that Hungarian is the only language which can do this: if there is a long consonant (marked doubled) between two vowels they will be part of two different syllables written. So for example the word állomás (meaning station) will be syllabified as ál-lo-más. And when that long consonant is written with a digraph it will become two different digraphs: asszony (meaning a married woman) will be syllabified as asz-szony. I think this should be put in the article. Adam bozso ( talk) 00:55, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
I've noticed, the infobox lists Poland as part of the native speech area, but there is no matching information in the article. @ KIENGIR and Others: Can you help out with clarifying details? – Austronesier ( talk) 13:30, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
The above is not correct, no. Poland did gain a small part of Hungarian speaking territory after WWI, but lost the same territory after WWII. There is no Hungarian speaking territory in modern Poland. If someone wants to claim the opposite, the onus is on them to mention which Polish village(s) or town(s) they believe are Hungarian-speaking. Jeppiz ( talk) 20:16, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
KIENGIR, this is fast getting into disruptive territory. Not only are you edit warring (and you've been duly warned on your talk page), but you are wrong on absolutely everything discussed.
1. No, WP:BRD does not give you any right to revert. BRD says a user can revert once. If you believe BRD means that your version takes precedence over the consensus version, then you clearly misunderstand BRD.
2. No, Hungarian has not been spoken in any part of Poland, neither contemporary Poland nor pre-WWII Poland. (
Tropylium provided a good overview on this already. At the very least, you have not provided any source for your claim (see
WP:OR).
3. No, nobody is interested in your homespun redefinition of "native to". Again, we use sources, not users' personal ideas (
WP:OR. Again).
4. No, there is no "ongoing discussion" any more. There is clear consensus among users, and one user refusing to
WP:HEAR. That is not a discussion, it is disruptive behavior at this point.
Jeppiz (
talk) 23:19, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Looks like the conservative gov't has sent out 'trial' textbooks to Hungarian teachers with a new origin theory given some weight - that the language was ancestored by the Huns instead of a Finno-Ugric/Uralic background. I see nothing but trouble from this for the Talk Page .... -HammerFilmFan
Of course. However, Hungarian truly belongs to the Uralic family. The Hunnic language was most likely NOT Uralic. It is much more likely to have been either Yeniseian or Turkic. Nationalist authors have been unable to come up with any reliable research that would prove the "Hunnic" theory. 2A02:AB04:2AB:700:F5AF:BD32:6287:7FA ( talk) 10:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
It's quite possible there was a Tungusic influence. It's not communis opinio, but quite possible.
@ Jeppiz recently suggests zapping the list of these with the comment a proper source is needed (…) a world of research has happened in the last 80 years. I feel this misunderstands the point of the paragraph. None of this is itself reliable research. The notable point being made is that Hungarian has for long attracted a disproportionate amount of pseudoscientific language comparison, a fact that has since then not changed, and probably can be found mentioned also in newer sources. I don't particularly follow literature discussing this phenomenon, but e.g. Laakso (2018) ( English translation) makes a few related points. -- Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 22:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
The redirect Epistolae Pavli Lingva Hvngarica Donatae has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 22 § Epistolae Pavli Lingva Hvngarica Donatae until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 18:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
A discussion has been opened at Talk:Umlaut (diacritic)#Hungarian that editors of this article may be able to resolve. I notice that the statement challenged is also stated in this article and is also uncited. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 10:57, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
In the "Word order" section of a language article, I expect to be shown how a sentence works, and not necessarily how a name works. For example, in a normal English sentence the subject is first, then the verb, and then the object (this order is often abbreviated SVO).
It would be helpful to see the proper way to make an ordinary sentence in Hungarian, and it would also be nice to see details like "if the sentence is a question" etc. TooManyFingers ( talk) 17:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
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"Today, the consensus among linguists ..." Consensus is a POLITICAL term. Science is based on EVIDENCE therefore there is no need or room for consensus. If there is a consensus between 'scientists', they are not scientist and the outcome is politically motivated.
I'm not a linguistics, thus merely wondering why do you call the vocabulary section "Lexicon"? It sounds very strange.
---
| A few months back I added this statement to the Lexicon section:
Therefore the history of Hungarian has come, especially since the 19th century, to favor neologisms from original bases, whilst still having developed as many terms from neighboring languages in the lexicon.
This was added upon reviewing the sources cited in that section which include the list of vocabulary origins and loanwords. I also kept in mind the factors of historical purism in Hungarian during the 19th century, as well as the conservative nature of the grammar as contributing to the argument that Hungarian has become a more purist language than most in Central Europe.
I do find the statistic of "80%" of the lexicon being Uralic hard to believe; not even German and Lithuanian could have such a high percentage of native words over loans, but I assume the findings of that research stand.
What's the consensus here on my addition? Should it be supported with citations or do the above sources already work?| CormanoSanchez ( talk) 16:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
|Yes; I believe a reasonable estimate would be 25% Uralic, 30% at most| CormanoSanchez ( talk) 15:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
There is an interesting study showing the comparison of the ancient Jurchen language with Hungarian and Mongolian. I think it is worth taking a look at. http://www.iacd.or.kr/pdf/journal/04/4-02.pdf
The presence of Tungusic words in Hungarian cannot be explained by the "Uralic Theory". Even if it were assumed that Magyars borrowed words from Turks, many of these Tungusic words (also the same in Manchu) are different than in Turkic, so how Hungarian shares these words is unexplainable by this theory. The Xianbei and Xiongnu not only had cultural exchanges, but genetic ones as well. The Xianbei were also a Tungusic-speaking people. I wonder if this could explain the similarities. -- Xiaogoudelaohu ( talk) 06:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
This statement seems an anachronism from Cold War times when we in the West were quite ignorant of what lay beyond the borders of the Soviet Union. Actually if Hungarian is related to Finnish it must also be related to Karelian, Estonian, Udmurt, Mari and other languages still spoken in the Baltic countries and in European Russia. LADave ( talk) 17:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Well, that certainly is not a comprehensive list of most European languages. 220.253.216.28 ( talk) 06:09, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
In Hungary there lives many nations: Magyars, Slovaks, etc. There are not "Hun" people. There are many languages. There is not Hungarian language. There are Magyar, Slovak, Roman (or Romanian), etc. -- 195.228.142.2 ( talk) 10:27, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
This article isn't about ethnic groups in Hungary. That information belongs in the article Hungary, not here. This article is just about the Hungarian language. The word "Magyar" has three different, distinct meanings: 1) An ethnic Hungarian (whether he/she still speaks Hungarian or not), 2) A citizen of Hungary (whether he/she is ethnically Hungarian or not), 3) The Hungarian language. In this article, the word only refers to the name of the language, not to either the ethnicity or the citizenship, so the discussion of "Not all Magyars (citizens of Hungary or ethnically Hungarian) speak Hungarian" is really moot. -- Taivo ( talk) 12:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
And there is a common Surname "Magyar" — Preceding unsigned comment added by TopSpeeder ( talk • contribs) 20:52, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/09/jobbik-wants-revision-of-finno-ugric.html 70.59.22.166 ( talk) 14:49, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
To become a "Hungarian academic" you must agree, if you don't then you are side-listed and outcast from the academic community. you hardly can publish anything (negative peer reviews) and if you can't publish then nobody takes you seriously so you became outcast >> vicious circle — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.230.130.195 ( talk) 22:03, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
It is unfortunate but it is not fringe theory. It has been a political practice to psychologically reduce the history of a nation (i.e. Hungarian/Magyar history) by the Habsburgs to better control socio/economic parameters of the affected peoples. Because the western influence and interpreted views of biased political systems and because Hungarian nation was never as advanced in the art of propaganda as being a people seeing less value and less honorable actions in such tactics, the overwhelming side-affects bring out the un-accepting views of people who experience comments and views from Hungarian indiviuals, politicians, writers, poets and historians. user:guest 17:14, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
"but neither their prefixes, nor their suffixes make sense (for example, hercehurca 'long-lasting, frusteredly done deed')." well technicaly hurca does makes sense it comes from verb "hurcolni" means dragging some thing away so hurca means his act to dragg things away... (have no other example to replace however) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.206.228.161 ( talk) 10:25, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
(There used to be a separate word for "elder sister", néne, but it has become obsolete [except to mean "aunt" in some dialects] and has been replaced by the generic word for "sister".)
This is not very accurate. Néne is a short form of nagynéni (aunt). Bácsi (the husband of aunt) is not used for the short form of uncle (nagybáty or nagybácsi).
ki (who)
nővéred (your elder sister)
nagynéni (aunt)
nagynénik (aunts)
nagynénéd (your aunt)
nagynénéid (your aunts)
nénéd (short form of 'your aunt')
nénéid (short form of 'your aunts')
nagybácsi (uncle)
nagybácsik (uncles)
nagybátyád (your uncle)
nagybátyáid (your uncles)
And so far:
kisöcs (sibling or younger brother)
nagytestvér (sibling or elder brother "big brother")
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Brtkr (
talk •
contribs) 23:03, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
I Corrected the legeslegmegszentségteleníttethetetlenebbjeitekként to legeslegmegszentségtelenítetthetetlenebbjeitekként. The ut ít suffix is excist but ítt is not and the past participle sign is the double t not the single. (I'm not a grammer genius so I'm not sure about the suffix names but I'm tottally sure about what form is correct) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.164.207.246 ( talk) 12:43, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I do not really agree with the statement that `if Hungarian orthography was totally consistent, <gy> would have been written as <dy> instead.' As far as I know, the "g" sound in English "argue" is a better approximation to the palatal consonant /ɟ/ than the "d+y" sounds in British "duke" or American "would you". Though I am not a native speaker of Hungarian, I was corrected when pronouncing <gy> as the latter. However, this must be confirmed by an expert prior to changing the article. Podgorec ( talk) 13:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
It is <gy>, because it was originally [ʥ], and Italian guys who created the ortography thought it's best to mark it with gy, which is 'palatal g'. This is effectively the same as soft g in Italian: bonGiorno, for example. 212.24.189.120 ( talk) 18:22, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello, your edit [ [9]] of adding the word later to the phrase The Hungarians migrated to the Carpathian Basin around 896 and came into contact with Slavic peoples – later as well as with the Romance speaking Vlachs,
Also this data has a reference, modifying data that is supported by a reference without adding some sources may be considered WP:OR and please try to WP:AGF assume good faith. I am not provoking you, I am genuinely asking why are you modifying this data. Adrian ( talk) 22:27, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
StasMalyga - I think that the main problem is that KIENGIR is not an experienced wikipedian. I think that we are close to solving this problem.
KIENGIR - You wrote a lot of data but without any evidence for them. I am not saying this data is false but how can I know it is valid? For this reason we must use valid sources. Let`s put aside this discussion just for a moment and we will continue it.
Please consider this: For example, I claim that Lima is the Capital of Peru - and you disagree with this statement. For now, I am just saying it, there is nothing to back-me-up right? It is just my word against yours. As such I can`t do anything because I must give an evidence for my statement and you have every right to remove this info or contest it until I prove it.
When talking about any problem on talk pages we also must provide evidence for what we are saying for the same reasons.
Now if I say again that Lima is the Capital of Peru and I present this source [12] where if you click on it it opens a web page. When you search this web page, you can find info that I am claiming to be valid. I hope I managed to explain it. If you don`t understand something, please ask.
For the continuance of our discussion regarding this article (Hungarian language), you claim various things but without links to prove it.
I would suggest the solution number 1, but only if solution number 3 you suggested really hasn`t have a valid source. I suggest to keep it simple. I think solution number 3 would be the best, but only if is verifiable, if not then I would go for number 1. If you have a source for adding Later or anything similar that we can rephrase it according to the source, please provide a link here so everybody can check for it`s validity and consider this data adding to the article. Greetings. Adrian ( talk) 13:05, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
I am sorry but I don`t believe that is according to sources that state both theories. This is just another way to say "later". I will change back the article to the version established by changes made by 3 other editors (Fakirbakir,Hgilbert,Taivo) and me. If that doesn`t works either then it is best to delete this whole sentence to avoid any possible conflict. Adrian ( talk) 22:51, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
In the section dealing with historical relationships with other languages, only lexical items are mentioned--no mention is made about syntactic similarities (agglutination, etc.). Other sections are similarly sloppy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.60.7.34 ( talk) 22:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Recently, the number of native speakers was changed. The new source [14] is *website* and it claims that there are 12,319,330 native Hungarian speakers. It is based on data from the 2001 census, does not claim other sources. Moreover, the simple fact that it gives such a precise number (ending with 330!) makes it a bit dubious. I think it was based on some census data from the Carpathian Basin. To improve the article, I have inserted some more recent sources which talk about approximately 15 million [15] [16] Hungarian speakers. This can serve as an upper estimate. Cheers, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 21:27, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, Ethnologue does not understand the concept of significant figures. They think that 1,000 + 5 = 1,005, which is of course silly. But that's just a math error, and they do give all their sources, if you'd bother to look. Nearly all are censuses from 2001 and 2002. Hungarian is not a fast-growing language, so the numbers are probably similar today.
Our other ref is an encyclopedia that has spent some considerable effort trying to get current speaker numbers. Ethnologue says 12.3M for 2001–2002, Nationalencyklopedin says 12.7M for 2007. That's pretty good agreement. Your sources, however, leave something to be desired. One of them is on choral rehearsal and says that Hungarian seems to be related to Turkish and the Ural-Altaic family; for all we know the authors are as ignorant about demography as they are about linguistics. The book on language contact gives no date for the figures, and does not concentrate on such information. Both are therefore inferior sources. — kwami ( talk) 20:15, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
Ah, ELL2 gives 13.5M from some time before 2006. I've used all three as refs that the number is approx. 13M. — kwami ( talk) 20:24, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
We're back to edit warring over this. KœrteFa, you can't cherry-pick your sources to get the largest number possible. That's the definition of POV pushing. In fact, we follow the National Encyclopedia in most places to avoid precisely these arguments. Sources dedicated to speaker number agree on 13M. Therefore we report 13M.
This isn't about Hungarian. Everyone's out to exaggerate the importance of their language. Back when we did ranking, we had a huge fight with people claiming that English has more speakers than Spanish (you can support that too, if you pick your sources just right). Yesterday I reverted an increase in the Nepali population from 17M to 32M, and the Balochi pop from 7.6M to 10–15M. This is more of the same. We should not be choosing sources with the aim to promote the language. That's profoundly unencyclopedic.
You argue that we're not allowed to evaluate our sources. That's nonsense. WP policy requires us to evaluate our sources. — kwami ( talk) 21:10, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
I have found some other linguistic sources ( [32] [33] [34]) in addition to the two above. Taking these into account as well as Ethnologue [35], which presents the lowest estimate, I suggest giving the interval estimate 12.3–15 million in the infobox. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 16:11, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
I think the first discussion was here. It's come up several times since . (The spelling 's wrong sometimes .) I was opposed to it at first , but eventually came around .
Yes , it only lists the top languages , which tend to be the ones that are the most complicated to figure out . — kwami ( talk) 09:00, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm also restoring the classification. — kwami ( talk) 19:58, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Dear Kwamikagami, I am still waiting for a proper explanation which rationalizes your actions of removing the term "Finno-Ugric", despite being a mainstream theory and used my numerous recent linguistic works (published by reputable scientific publishers, such as Cambridge University Press, Indiana University Press, Wiley Blackwell, Springer, etc.). So: we should not use the term "Finno-Ugric", because...? Cheers, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 12:53, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
For the interested editors: the issue has been raised on the talk page of the Uralic languages article. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 12:25, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
The article " Topic-prominent language" currently lists Hungarian as an example of a topic-prominent language. I question this claim because topic-prominent languages (such as Japanese and Chinese) tend to have grammatical features which (AFAIK) are not characteristic of Hungarian — e.g., sentences with two "subjects" in the nominative case (one of which is in fact the topic of the sentence); a special case marking for the topic, distinct from that of the subject; and/or the lack of a reliable marking distinction for subject vs. object.
I think it would be helpful if some people who are much more familiar with Hungarian than I am could go look at this other article, and if Hungarian does in fact fall into the topic-prominent category, supply a citation to a reliable source from the linguistic literature if possible, or else supply an example sentence in Hungarian accompanied by an analysis demonstrating its topic-prominent character.
Please note that "topic-prominent" is not exactly the same as " topic-comment" (you may wish to read the separate article dealing with topic-comment). Hungarian definitely uses its flexible word order to identify topic vs. comment, but AFAIK it does so in the context of a nominative-accusative case alignment. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 22:47, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
We have an anon. IP adding generations to the kinship table. A while ago we had Serbs and Croats trying to outdo each other in kinship, resulting in something like sixteen generations in either direction, so I'm a bit suspicious of such claims. Anyone have a ref that such terms are actually in use in Hungarian? — kwami ( talk) 22:22, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
How do you come up with this statement? Almost 11 million of Turkish people lives in the European part of Turkey and plus there are up to 9 million Turkish speakers in various European countries which makes the Turkish speakers in Europe almost 20 million. The numbers may vary but Turkish (a non-Indo-European language) is definitely more spoken in Europe than Hungarian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baloglu ( talk • contribs) 16:50, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
I have removed this nonsensical claim. Turkish definitely has more speakers in Europe than Hungarian, and Arabic might have. Yes, somebody found a source claiming Hungarian as number one. Sources can be wrong as well, and in this case the source contradicts many other sources (such at Ethnologue). Just a few days ago Le Monce accidentally (I presume) wrote that Turkey and Egypt are almost entirely Christian. Obviously wrong (probably meant to write 'Muslim) but Le Monde is a trusted source. So should we edit those articles to claim the countries are majority Christian because we have a source saying so? Obviously not, because many other sources contradict the error. Same thing applies here. Jeppiz ( talk) 21:55, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
I consider it should worth mentioning the followings in the "Name order" section: if the name of a Hungarian person is used according to the Western name order in a Hungarian text, then it means a very serious insult. (For example: writing "Imre Kertész" instead of "Kertész Imre"). 82.131.220.47 ( talk) 18:24, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I think that the left-hand-side columns consists of 'infinitve's and right-hand-side the 'gerund's. ZJ ( talk) 14:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
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If the law that created regional language in Ukraine has been ruled unconstitutional how can that "doesn't change reality" that Hungarian is a recognised minority language in Ukraine Kostaki mou? As far as I know Swahili and Hungarian have the same legal status in Ukraine; being neither are recognised minority languages in Ukraine because there are no "recognised minority languages in Ukraine". Of course Hungarian is a minority language in Ukraine and Swahili is not. I would not object to mentioning Hungarian as a minority language in Ukraine (in the infobox of this article). But as far as I know there is no legal basis to claim Hungarian is a "recognised minority language in Ukraine". — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:36, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
As is well-known in linguistic circles, Hungarian belongs to the Ugric branch of the Uralic language family. This fact is established and has also been an established fact in this article for many years. However, a month ago, user Kwamikagami changed the first sentence of the article, writing that Hungarian being a part of the Ugric branch was increasingly doubted, but did not provide the article with any kind of source. User KIENGIR has had my edits reverted, although I have told him that a source must be provided. This user then tells me I should discuss the matter with Kwamikagami instead, informing me that he has written about this in several articles, all unbeknownst to me. Is this standard procedure? Stating that it is doubted that Hungarian belongs to the Ugric branch is a highly controversial statement. Either of these two, or both, are welcome to provide sources. I am a linguist myself and as far as I know, no claims about Hungarian not being a part of the Ugric branch has been widely accepted in linguistic circles in modern times. Perceptivity ( talk) 20:56, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
This will probably be the first time in a decade that I disagree with kwami, but Perceptivity is right. It is very easy to find multiple academic sources stating the Hungarian is a Finno-Ugric. Even as someone fairly familiar with the academic literature in the field, I have not seen anything but fringe disputes that that would be the case. It is true that science develops all the time, but if we are to challenge the academic consensus this far, providing good WP:RS is certainly a requirement. And to be clear: finding a couple of articles disputing it will not suffice (see WP:FRINGE. We need to establish that, at very least, a significant minority holds that view. Jeppiz ( talk) 22:01, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Perceptivity, you keep claiming that this is my POV, that I made these changes, but that is false. We had a discussion years ago and decided, as a community, to change the default classification of the Uralic languages on WP. This affected all the Uralic languages, not just Hungarian (though it always seems to be Hungarian that people get upset about), and has been the consensus now for years. It's not up to me to provide sources for that consensus, as you can refer to the old discussion (which is probably under either Uralic or FU). Rather, it is up to you to provide evidence that counters the sources used to achieve that consensus, one that will convince not just me but the others involved, assmuming they're still active on WP.
BTW, if you can demonstrate the validity of either Ugric, Ob-Ugric, Hungarian-Khanty or Hungarian-Mansi, that would actually simplify things for me in another project. So I'm not at all opposed to you demonstrating this -- I'd appreciate it, actually -- I just expect better evidence than sources copying each other for decades, an issue that was discussed when we came to the current consensus. — kwami ( talk) 00:01, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Jeppiz:, Finno-Ugric is another matter. That was abandoned across the board, because no-one has ever shown that the Samoyed languages form the primary split of the family. Rather, Samoyed was simple recognized as being related long after the Finno-Ugric languages had been established and proto-FU reconstructed. (There have also been suspicions that the exclusion of Samoyed was more racist than linguistic.) People do continue to use the term 'Finno-Ugric', but often simply as a synonym for 'Uralic', much as we continue to hear about 'Mon-Khmer' from sources that do not maintain that the Munda languages are necessarily the primary split of AA, where proto-FU is the same language as proto-Uralic, and proto-MK is the same language as proto-AA. If we do reinstitute FU, it will require updating all of the Uralic languages except Samoyed.
Also, although it's quite possible that Ugric will turn out to be valid, it may not include all three of the language clusters traditionally included in it, though as long as one of them is Hungarian that shouldn't matter much for this article. — kwami ( talk) 02:44, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Thanks to all of you for good comments. I should point out I have absolutely no personal preference in this apart from making sure we align with academic consensus. I did have a quick look at some other Finno-Ugric languages - they use the same family grouping as here. As Perceptivity says, I'd be very careful about a discussion on WP to override academic consensus, that is the definition of WP:OR. Not saying that's the case here but, while I completely trust that what kwami says is correct, we still need sources if we are going to contest the traditional classification; we cannot just decide to override it. Jeppiz ( talk) 16:49, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
No problem, Jeppiz.
BTW, of the sources we have from this century, all but Salminen (2002, 2007) accept the validity of Finno-Permic (Permian, Balto-Finnic, Sami, Mari, Mordvin). So we could reasonably re-institute that. As for Ugric, Kulonen (2002) and Lehtinen (2007) accept it, while Michalove (2002) and Janhunen (2009) do not. Michalove accepts Ob-Ugric but keeps Hungarian separate, Janhunen accepts Hungarian-Mansi but keeps Khanty separate, while Salminen doesn't accept any of it. So the similarities that led to the proposal for Ugric are still recognized, but there's disagreement as to what they mean. — kwami ( talk) 21:28, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
It seems this dispute is over. Perceptivity thanked me for cross-linking the infobox to the refs that were already in the article (and which they evidently never bothered to check, despite having them pointed out more than once), which happened when they did the reasonable thing of adding 'cn' tags where they had a problem, and is now celebrating that being "stubborn" (= edit-warring, lying, and being obstructionist) finally "paid off". Perceptivity, I hope you don't think that is a recipe for future success on WP, as a couple days of dealing with your obstructionism does not leave me favorably inclined to cooperate with you in the future, and a couple days of your bullshit has taught be that nothing you say can be believed. — kwami ( talk) 01:10, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
I think (but I'm not sure) that Hungarian is the only language which can do this: if there is a long consonant (marked doubled) between two vowels they will be part of two different syllables written. So for example the word állomás (meaning station) will be syllabified as ál-lo-más. And when that long consonant is written with a digraph it will become two different digraphs: asszony (meaning a married woman) will be syllabified as asz-szony. I think this should be put in the article. Adam bozso ( talk) 00:55, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
I've noticed, the infobox lists Poland as part of the native speech area, but there is no matching information in the article. @ KIENGIR and Others: Can you help out with clarifying details? – Austronesier ( talk) 13:30, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
The above is not correct, no. Poland did gain a small part of Hungarian speaking territory after WWI, but lost the same territory after WWII. There is no Hungarian speaking territory in modern Poland. If someone wants to claim the opposite, the onus is on them to mention which Polish village(s) or town(s) they believe are Hungarian-speaking. Jeppiz ( talk) 20:16, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
KIENGIR, this is fast getting into disruptive territory. Not only are you edit warring (and you've been duly warned on your talk page), but you are wrong on absolutely everything discussed.
1. No, WP:BRD does not give you any right to revert. BRD says a user can revert once. If you believe BRD means that your version takes precedence over the consensus version, then you clearly misunderstand BRD.
2. No, Hungarian has not been spoken in any part of Poland, neither contemporary Poland nor pre-WWII Poland. (
Tropylium provided a good overview on this already. At the very least, you have not provided any source for your claim (see
WP:OR).
3. No, nobody is interested in your homespun redefinition of "native to". Again, we use sources, not users' personal ideas (
WP:OR. Again).
4. No, there is no "ongoing discussion" any more. There is clear consensus among users, and one user refusing to
WP:HEAR. That is not a discussion, it is disruptive behavior at this point.
Jeppiz (
talk) 23:19, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Looks like the conservative gov't has sent out 'trial' textbooks to Hungarian teachers with a new origin theory given some weight - that the language was ancestored by the Huns instead of a Finno-Ugric/Uralic background. I see nothing but trouble from this for the Talk Page .... -HammerFilmFan
Of course. However, Hungarian truly belongs to the Uralic family. The Hunnic language was most likely NOT Uralic. It is much more likely to have been either Yeniseian or Turkic. Nationalist authors have been unable to come up with any reliable research that would prove the "Hunnic" theory. 2A02:AB04:2AB:700:F5AF:BD32:6287:7FA ( talk) 10:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
It's quite possible there was a Tungusic influence. It's not communis opinio, but quite possible.
@ Jeppiz recently suggests zapping the list of these with the comment a proper source is needed (…) a world of research has happened in the last 80 years. I feel this misunderstands the point of the paragraph. None of this is itself reliable research. The notable point being made is that Hungarian has for long attracted a disproportionate amount of pseudoscientific language comparison, a fact that has since then not changed, and probably can be found mentioned also in newer sources. I don't particularly follow literature discussing this phenomenon, but e.g. Laakso (2018) ( English translation) makes a few related points. -- Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 22:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
The redirect Epistolae Pavli Lingva Hvngarica Donatae has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 22 § Epistolae Pavli Lingva Hvngarica Donatae until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 18:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
A discussion has been opened at Talk:Umlaut (diacritic)#Hungarian that editors of this article may be able to resolve. I notice that the statement challenged is also stated in this article and is also uncited. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 10:57, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
In the "Word order" section of a language article, I expect to be shown how a sentence works, and not necessarily how a name works. For example, in a normal English sentence the subject is first, then the verb, and then the object (this order is often abbreviated SVO).
It would be helpful to see the proper way to make an ordinary sentence in Hungarian, and it would also be nice to see details like "if the sentence is a question" etc. TooManyFingers ( talk) 17:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)