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Please do NOT edit "mélodie" to "melody" AGAIN. A mélodie is NOT a series of notes, it is a French poem set to music. The word cannot be translated any more than its German counterpart the Lied. S.Camus 19:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
We seem to be having some trouble agreeing on a form of words that everyone's happy with, about his recently becoming 107 years of age
Prior to 26 June (his 107th birthday), it had been:
On 26 June, an anon updated the age and the year:
I changed it to:
I had 3 reasons for this:
Objecting to "turned", TFBCT1 changed it to:
To me, that's ungrammatical, mixing "as of" and "now". I asked TFBCT1 to explain his edit, and he said "[Turned] might be used in the colloquial vernacular, but it's just not proper English". He provided a very long technical explanation that I was not prepared to read. I asked him to point out exactly where it said my phraseology was "not proper English", but he declined and simply deleted the discussion from his user talk page. So I reverted it back to my version.
TFBCT1's latest version is:
I'm not at all happy about that. It should be "aged 107", and the date format should be "26 June 2009", to be consistent with the lede. But the main objection is that it's a completely unidiomatic way of reporting that someone has recently had a birthday.
Can we come to a consensus about this matter, by discussing it here rather than continuing to change it? -- JackofOz ( talk) 21:14, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Firstly, vale Hugues Cuénod (26 June 1902 – 3 December 2010).
Now, according to List of centenarians (musicians, composers and music patrons), Cuenod seems to be the oldest notable composer/musician ever. He was a few months older than Leo Ornstein, who also got to 108. Is this something we could state in his article, or is it OR because it's from another WP article? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 10:58, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Currently, we have the Telegraph plus one other source saying he died on 3 December, and the NY Times plus one other source saying he died on 6 December. Obviously they can't all be right. I guess we'll just have to wait for someone to come along who knows for sure, and is able to specifically refute the wrong date. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 16:30, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
I think an IPA transcription of his name might be helpful for readers. What about:
Michael Bednarek ( talk) 11:00, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Huguie (a friend) did not spell his last name with an accent. I tried to correct this, but Jack of Oz deemed the correction "utterly irrelevant" and undid the correction in multiple instances. So now Wikipedia joins the New York Times and others misspelling Huguie's name.
Here's a photograph of a wine label that Huguie gave me from his vineyard, with his name spelled correctly. Note that the other words on the label have all their diacritical marks where they ought to be: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8_tgPop9ryg/TP8HlE0OI5I/AAAAAAAAAQQ/J5VqKrdUf-A/s1600/wine.jpg
I'm puzzled why the correct spelling of an entry's name is considered irrelevant.
Paulfesta ( talk) 20:46, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
1. The wine label is on a bottle from Hugues Cuenod's own vineyard, which the photograph demonstrates in multiple ways ("H. ET D. CUENOD, PROPRIETAIRES," and it pictures his chateau, which you can see pictured with him right out in front if it in several pictures I took here ( http://blog.paulfesta.com/2010/12/long-lived-hugues-cuenod.html). The wine label is an example of his name that he printed and published. There is no accent on it. This is irrelevant?
2. None of your answers above address whether the spelling of Huguie's name is "utterly irrelevant." They just denigrate evidence provided by the man in question in favor of a longstanding error perpetrated by the likes of the New York Times, whose fact-checking track record is well know.
3. With equal respect, hearing "Jack of Oz" call "Paulfesta" anonymous is a bit much.
4. One of my edits that you undid was to the title of a book - Hugues Cuenod with an Agile Voice - which was created with Huguie's participation and which does NOT use the accent. So in referencing that title, a Wikipedia editor introduced an error where there wasn't one, and I corrected it, and you made it wrong again.
5. I gather that my personal association with Huguie is of no value in this discussion, but in any case I asked Huguie why there was no accent on his name (because it is pronounced as if there were) and he answered that he had no idea - but that the family had never used one.
6. The amount of time and effort this has already taken, to correct and then defend the correction of the spelling of a friend's name, is a powerful disincentive to be involved in Wikipedia. Maybe you intend that. Paulfesta ( talk) 22:06, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Responses:
-- Jack of Oz [your turn] 23:52, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Huguie had better things to do with his time than argue with people like you over the spelling of his name. So have I. You seem utterly committed to this error. Paulfesta ( talk) 01:22, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
As often happens, I come to a discussion several years too late. I came here because I was intrigued to see the accent on his name – I have never seen it spelt with the accent before, and I have often wondered why, since it is pronounced as though the accent is there. None of his recordings for Nimbus Records use the accent, as far as I am aware. But I see accents in most of the reliable sources cited in the article, and we have to follow those. I am now even more intrigued. -- Deskford ( talk) 23:36, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Regarding these two edits by 62.235.146.48 and their revert by JackofOz: I also almost instinctively was about to revert those edits until I came across the his family's death notice in the first source added by 62.235.146.48 where it unequivocally states: 6 December. Maybe this will settle the matter.
By the way, the family's death notice spells the name without an accent – Cuenod – but the obituary itself, the Geneva Opera, the City of Vevey and the well-wishers spell it with an accent. -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 13:16, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
The article fails to say what was special about Cuenod's voice – and it certainly was special. "Unique vocal registry" is not enough. Was he an example of an haute-contre? If so, the link should be made. If not, how should his voice be characterised? (Cf. the Russell Oberlin article.) EEye ( talk) 17:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
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Please do NOT edit "mélodie" to "melody" AGAIN. A mélodie is NOT a series of notes, it is a French poem set to music. The word cannot be translated any more than its German counterpart the Lied. S.Camus 19:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
We seem to be having some trouble agreeing on a form of words that everyone's happy with, about his recently becoming 107 years of age
Prior to 26 June (his 107th birthday), it had been:
On 26 June, an anon updated the age and the year:
I changed it to:
I had 3 reasons for this:
Objecting to "turned", TFBCT1 changed it to:
To me, that's ungrammatical, mixing "as of" and "now". I asked TFBCT1 to explain his edit, and he said "[Turned] might be used in the colloquial vernacular, but it's just not proper English". He provided a very long technical explanation that I was not prepared to read. I asked him to point out exactly where it said my phraseology was "not proper English", but he declined and simply deleted the discussion from his user talk page. So I reverted it back to my version.
TFBCT1's latest version is:
I'm not at all happy about that. It should be "aged 107", and the date format should be "26 June 2009", to be consistent with the lede. But the main objection is that it's a completely unidiomatic way of reporting that someone has recently had a birthday.
Can we come to a consensus about this matter, by discussing it here rather than continuing to change it? -- JackofOz ( talk) 21:14, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Firstly, vale Hugues Cuénod (26 June 1902 – 3 December 2010).
Now, according to List of centenarians (musicians, composers and music patrons), Cuenod seems to be the oldest notable composer/musician ever. He was a few months older than Leo Ornstein, who also got to 108. Is this something we could state in his article, or is it OR because it's from another WP article? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 10:58, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Currently, we have the Telegraph plus one other source saying he died on 3 December, and the NY Times plus one other source saying he died on 6 December. Obviously they can't all be right. I guess we'll just have to wait for someone to come along who knows for sure, and is able to specifically refute the wrong date. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 16:30, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
I think an IPA transcription of his name might be helpful for readers. What about:
Michael Bednarek ( talk) 11:00, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Huguie (a friend) did not spell his last name with an accent. I tried to correct this, but Jack of Oz deemed the correction "utterly irrelevant" and undid the correction in multiple instances. So now Wikipedia joins the New York Times and others misspelling Huguie's name.
Here's a photograph of a wine label that Huguie gave me from his vineyard, with his name spelled correctly. Note that the other words on the label have all their diacritical marks where they ought to be: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8_tgPop9ryg/TP8HlE0OI5I/AAAAAAAAAQQ/J5VqKrdUf-A/s1600/wine.jpg
I'm puzzled why the correct spelling of an entry's name is considered irrelevant.
Paulfesta ( talk) 20:46, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
1. The wine label is on a bottle from Hugues Cuenod's own vineyard, which the photograph demonstrates in multiple ways ("H. ET D. CUENOD, PROPRIETAIRES," and it pictures his chateau, which you can see pictured with him right out in front if it in several pictures I took here ( http://blog.paulfesta.com/2010/12/long-lived-hugues-cuenod.html). The wine label is an example of his name that he printed and published. There is no accent on it. This is irrelevant?
2. None of your answers above address whether the spelling of Huguie's name is "utterly irrelevant." They just denigrate evidence provided by the man in question in favor of a longstanding error perpetrated by the likes of the New York Times, whose fact-checking track record is well know.
3. With equal respect, hearing "Jack of Oz" call "Paulfesta" anonymous is a bit much.
4. One of my edits that you undid was to the title of a book - Hugues Cuenod with an Agile Voice - which was created with Huguie's participation and which does NOT use the accent. So in referencing that title, a Wikipedia editor introduced an error where there wasn't one, and I corrected it, and you made it wrong again.
5. I gather that my personal association with Huguie is of no value in this discussion, but in any case I asked Huguie why there was no accent on his name (because it is pronounced as if there were) and he answered that he had no idea - but that the family had never used one.
6. The amount of time and effort this has already taken, to correct and then defend the correction of the spelling of a friend's name, is a powerful disincentive to be involved in Wikipedia. Maybe you intend that. Paulfesta ( talk) 22:06, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Responses:
-- Jack of Oz [your turn] 23:52, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Huguie had better things to do with his time than argue with people like you over the spelling of his name. So have I. You seem utterly committed to this error. Paulfesta ( talk) 01:22, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
As often happens, I come to a discussion several years too late. I came here because I was intrigued to see the accent on his name – I have never seen it spelt with the accent before, and I have often wondered why, since it is pronounced as though the accent is there. None of his recordings for Nimbus Records use the accent, as far as I am aware. But I see accents in most of the reliable sources cited in the article, and we have to follow those. I am now even more intrigued. -- Deskford ( talk) 23:36, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Regarding these two edits by 62.235.146.48 and their revert by JackofOz: I also almost instinctively was about to revert those edits until I came across the his family's death notice in the first source added by 62.235.146.48 where it unequivocally states: 6 December. Maybe this will settle the matter.
By the way, the family's death notice spells the name without an accent – Cuenod – but the obituary itself, the Geneva Opera, the City of Vevey and the well-wishers spell it with an accent. -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 13:16, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
The article fails to say what was special about Cuenod's voice – and it certainly was special. "Unique vocal registry" is not enough. Was he an example of an haute-contre? If so, the link should be made. If not, how should his voice be characterised? (Cf. the Russell Oberlin article.) EEye ( talk) 17:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)