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Why does this article group the VY and VZ Commodores with the models before them? The VY introduced an entirely new body design. - Mark 07:01, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
I believe Holden produced a royal wedding edition of the Holden Commodore, probably a VC, may have been a VH. The NSW plates had an ER prefix and a mini plate duplicated on the glovebox. Was this a factory product, dealer sales gimmick or just a privateers aftermarket touch? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.139.31.2 ( talk • contribs) 22:54, 2 November 2005
What happened to it? -- Jquarry 01:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I noticed that for the VS commodore it says that the engine retained the cast iron block and cylinder heads from the VR. While the cylinder head was still cast iron,. it was a completely different moulding. The VR still had the mouldings from when the engine was used as a V8 and the spark plugs for the front two cylinders were angled towards each other while the rear ones were angle away from the others. This was corrected on the VS and they all angled from the cylinder head the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.18.171 ( talk • contribs) 03:49, 6 March 2006
'toyota lexcen' redirects to holden commodore. i have a feeling someone's being naughty... but i don't know how to fix it. just thought i'd let people know. cheers riana 16:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
We seem to be getting a fair bit of attention on this article. Some is just clear vandalism, but there seems to be quite a bit of attention from those wanting to add point of view statements. I'll try and catch new ones with a citation request. Decromin 16:06, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
The picture on the VZ part is wrong. the VZ commodore as the fins that the side blinker is on. Its on the guard under the mirror, but it isnt in the picture...How come? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DRK-MRSTR ( talk • contribs) 11:26, 14 September 2006
I should point out that the Commodore was never a full-size car. For starters, the Commodore has never, and still is not, as big as a Falcon. When the Commodore was introduced in '78, it was significantly smaller than the Kingswood and was much closer to a 'mid-size' car. Although it continued to grow in size with each new generation, it still never quite became a full-size. Look at the facts - the Commodore is still less than 4.9m long, and about 1.85m wide. Those dimensions are about the same as a Camry, 380, Accord, or Sonata, which are all mid-size cars. A full-size is more like 5m+ long and 1.9m+ wide. For example, the Ford Crown Victoria in the US measures 5.4m long - that is a full size car. The Chrysler 300, another full-size car, is exactly 5m long. SOME variants of the Commodore are full-size, however. The wagon and ute are both on a stretched wheelbase, and as such are longer than 5m, as are the Statesman/Caprice. But the sedan with its short wheelbase, still falls short of a true full-size. Davez621 09:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree it should absolutely be classified as a Large car and not full sized. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 23:24, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Seems that there are forum links coming back onto this page. These links don't meet wiki criteria, but as other automotive pages have plenty of links to fan forums, I'm loathe to keep removing them. Any thoughts on how to treat them? Decromin 15:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Since this is split into separate articles, is the duplication really worth it?? Maybe a few basic notes, and the see X article thing may do? -- SunStar Net talk 00:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone think that this article should be nominated for Good Article status? Write your comments below. Senators Talk | Contribs 23:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Good work on such a long article. It passes on all criteria. Great job! Mit ch contribs 19:21, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
The article states that "In the VX and succeeding models, the Commodore Berlina became known simply as the Berlina" and quotes "Davis, Kennedy, Kennedy (Part Three), p. 111" to support this. However this ignores the fact that "Davis, Kennedy, Kennedy (Part Three), p. 107" supports the notation that the change happened with the VT rather than the VX. The VT brochure AD10652 of October 1997 also supports this as the two page spread on the Berlina uses the term Holden Berlina rather than Holden Commodore Berlina. GTHO ( talk) 11:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Although the present article has some vague detail about improvements made to each model it would be nice to see a more thorough and detailed anaylsis of improvements made to a specific model with a clear comparison to the previous model. I am presently trying to find information on a Holden Commodore site somewhere about which model may have the best reputation for reliability and quality etc. and this article at present doesn't really assist in that regard and it seems near impossible to find such information on the internet at all. If the article could be considered for updating in this regard or if someone could point me in the right direction for another site that might have such information it would be greatly appreciated, Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.198.171 ( talk) 10:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
VXII improved suspension, VXII was released September 2011 not early 2012. I waited for the VXII and my Acclaim sedan was registered at the Victorian Ringwood dealer on 20/9/2001 not "An updated Series II was launched in early 2002, featuring revised rear suspension system now equipped with toe control links to address the VT's issues.[108]" as claimed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.169.252 ( talk) 06:39, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Ah great to see illiteracy in action. Can someone identify what is ironic about using a name for a previous model, for a new model? Perhaps that person had better check the definition of Irony first. Thank you, he said sarcastically. Greg Locock ( talk) 23:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Why do we need two articles on the holden commodore. Its not like the holden commodore is of any international significance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.180.189.153 ( talk) 10:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Would be good to have a source on the claims of improvements with the Jap engine. Nevard ( talk) 21:27, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I believe that the image used in the main table isn't the best available Holden Commodore picture available on Wikipedia and Commons such as this one. I have already added it but it has been deleted and I don't know why.-- Pineapple fez ( talk) 04:08, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Some Holden pages say automobile, others car. The term automobile is rarely used in Australia or New Zealand, where Holdens were made. 77.44.45.91 ( talk) 19:08, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
(Moved from here) I find this NZ special very interesting. In an old notebook of mine I came across a mention of it, stating 129hp as the output. Also, was it only available with the 4-speed Jatco automatic? This seems unlikely but it is how the article is currently worded. Perhaps you can shed some light on this? And thanks for including the XT6 photo, btw. ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ ( talk) 08:36, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
(Moved from here) Also just happened to encounter the Vectra engined VN Commodore, also highly interesting. In the European market Vectra, such a non-catalyzed engine produced 95 kW (129 PS; 127 bhp), while in the Omega it produced 90 kW (122 PS; 121 bhp). Any clue as to what the output may have been for NZ and Singapore? ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ ( talk) 08:44, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
(Moved from here) I have been told that this car [VR series] was sold in Malaysia and Singapore as the Opel Calais, fitted with Opel's 2.6 litre inline-six. Could anyone please provide a source and more info? ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ ( talk) 09:05, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help), which states:Holden has followed the lead set by Ford with its new Fairmonts and given Calais the same nose treatment as its upscale long wheelbase models. But you won't be seeing it in your local Holden dealerships — yet.
This car is the new 2.6 litre Opel engined Calais destined for Singapore and Malaysia, where Holden currently sells about 40 per month. This is despite a price tag in Singapore of a mere $200,000 thanks to tariffs, taxes and a mandatory 'certificate of entitlement' which costs $100,000 per car. In Malaysia the Calais is a steal at $76,000. The simple but effective make-over involved fitting a Statesman bonnet with integral grille, and a Statesman front bumper.
Why has someone added sic to the referenced quote
AFAIK the Holden 1.9 litre was called the "Starfire", so why the sic?
I suspect it is probably someone who mistakenly thinks litre is spelt liter.
Can I/someone remove the sic? or is there a real reason for it being there that I don't understand?
Arjayay (
talk)
15:57, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Hmm, I see (now) the point of putting '[sic]' in the quote. However, it will probably confuse more people than it will help. In a similar vein, Chris added a ton of {{
typo}}
macros but these look like a warning that this is a typo to be fixed when it really means that this is a deliberate mistake in the source that looks like a typo but really isn't. Perhaps the {{
Not a typo}}
macro would be better because it stops bots, is clear to real life editors and doesn't show up at all for readers.
Stepho
talk
To the editors that want to make the infobox show 1978–2017 for the production dates: It's been mentioned in the press that the Holden will cease production in 2017. However, this may or may not be changed in the next few years. Perhaps the government will bail them out - or perhaps not. Perhaps GM will change its mind - or perhaps not. Perhaps the Commodore will be designed here but made overseas - or perhaps not. Large corporations have a history of changing the details of announcements. We don't know what will actually happen in 2017 and therefore we can not set the end of production date yet. WP:CRYSTALBALL explains this. Stepho talk 02:23, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
There is a citation by Tuckey which suggests that the Holden VB Commodore inspired Opel to make a similar car. I don't know if it's true or not, but I have a few minor concerns with the statement as it currently stands. While both the Holden and the South African Chevrolet Commodore made it to market first, the Germans did show the Opel Commodore in Frankfurt 1977. I don't know, it is indeed possible that Opel had planned on not having a car in the narrow gap between the Senator and the Rekord, but the Tuckey reference seems problematic to me as its wording also suggests that the Germans adopted the Commodore nameplate from Holden (Opel later picked up the bastard child to fit between its Rekord and Senator on the European market and named it – guess what? – Commodore
) when they had been using it since February 1967. Again, the European Commodore/Viceroy may very well have come about as a result of Australian input, but I find the Tuckey reference and its implications rather dubious.@
OSX:@
Stepho-wrs:
Oh, and please invite anyone else who might be able to shed some light on this. Cheers, Mr.choppers | ✎ 01:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
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the article about the Ute was removed in favour of a redirect to this page, with the argument of merging it into this page.
this has obviously not happened, and was done with barely any support for it (agreement of 2 people), after an earlier, more active discussion with inconclusive result on this.
therefore i suggest adding support for restoring that article in its original location at the talk page for it /info/en/?search=Talk:Holden_Ute TheFIST ( talk) 23:08, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
The reference https://www.caradvice.com.au/812851/holden-commodore-retired/ says 'The company has confirmed it will continue to sell MY19 Commodore and MY19 Astra variants to private buyers through 2020, "albeit with diminishing model availability as part of an orderly runout". The facelifted MY20 Commodore, confirmed last week, is available to fleet buyers right now.' The other references say that sales will continue in 2020 but don't mention the actual end of production. Note that my previous edit was based on a mistaken reading of a 2017 reference (I didn't check the date properly), so I'd like to check a bit more thoroughly this time. Stepho talk 11:15, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
The article says "The last Commodore - the last Holden vehicle to be manufactured in Australia - rolled off the line at the Elizabeth plant on 20 October 2017." Yet the sales table says that sales continued until at least 2019 (2020 data obviously not added yet). I can't see Holden stockpiling 2 or 3 years worth of cars. So, was the ZB made elsewhere? Stepho talk 21:05, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
As a summary article, we should have no more than 4 images per generation. Typically that would be
The full set of 101 images belong on the separate article for each generation, not here. Stepho talk 11:43, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Can anyone with insider knowledge talk about how long the 2017 last V8 Holdens will continue to run at Buthurst, I believe this years Holden which won was a 2017 private entry an incredible feat beating a new 2021 Mustang — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:2D57:7200:8520:D4E2:8DC5:2671 ( talk) 14:27, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
There's been too much back and forth editing of the lead image lately. Ignoring some bad choices of glary images, the main points have been:
I prefer the VF image but that is purely a personal preference. I can see points for either image and can see no valid points for removing either image. Stepho talk 00:36, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
are you admitting that disdain for the ZB as a Commodore simply all boils down to surface-level emotional reasoning - I never said nor have I in any way implied that I dislike the ZB (why should I - I come from an Opel-owning family, I have never been to Australia, and I love small FWD cars - in no way a Commodore dude). I am trying to explain to you in the simplest way possible that while one strike against the ZB would not be enough for exclusion, two might, and three strikes certainly should. And yes, if you could hypothetically remove one of the reasons, then it would affect the outcome. But you can't.
Using foreign design and/or manufacture as criteria is a rabbit hole that you probably don't want to go down. - Umm, yes, there is still a gradation between CBU, SKD, CKD, and locally built. No one is arguing that the Commodore line wasn't based on mostly German engineering, that's a straw man, but there is a clear distinction between the origin of the previous generations and the last one. If not, Holden's PR department wouldn't have had to stay so busy pushing pieces like this and this.
Anyhow, I am going to create a new, more productive section with some positive options instead of just discussing why the ZB is unsuitable. My main problem is that all photos of Commodores seem to be taken in front of twenty other Holdens, and that there are hundreds of Commodore subcategories in the Commons. Mr.choppers | ✎ 00:33, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I suggest this image and have tried to edit it to show this however keep being blocked by Stepho. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2017_Holden_Commodore_(VF_II_MY17)_SV6_sedan_(2017-11-18)_01.jpg#mw-jump-to-license DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 23:10, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Whether the ZB is a "real" Holden Commodore is an irrelevant distraction. The real issue is whether it makes a good rep for the Holden Commodore line at the top of the page. I hold that it is the least representative and worst choice because:
1. All the Holden Commodores except the last were manufactured by Holden. We could also add they had significant, and over time, increasing Holden designed modifications, culminating in the Holden developed zeta platforms 1 and 2 of the VE and VF. The ZB was manufactured in Germany by the then GM subsidiary Opel.
2. All the Holden made Commodores were rear-wheel drive. The ZB had a very different architecture because it was, uniquely among the Commodores, a front-wheel drive vehicle.
3. All the Holden made Commodores, including the last, sold in large numbers by Australian domestic market standards and became a common sight on Australian roads. Even the Holden made VF remains a relatively common sight despite its relatively disappointing sales compared to earlier models. The last Commodore, the Opel made ZB, was a sales disaster in its three years of 2018, 2019, 2020. The ZB is barely visible on Australian roads less than two years after it was cancelled. Its spectacular sales failure led to the termination of the Holden brand.
How such an unrepresentative and unpopular vehicle like the ZB Commodore be thought to be appropriate for the top of this article as a representative the entire Holden Commodore model lineup, I cannot imagine except as a very bad joke. Any other Holden Commodore model would be a vastly superior choice to the ZB for the above reasons. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
125.63.186.170 (
talk •
contribs)
Sadly, since the ZB is so unpopular, any ZB image will be changed within days by its haters. We will be forever having to protect it and also having to justify our protection of it - which isn't my plan for the rest of my life. Let's just pick a less controversial image and move on. Stepho talk 04:22, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I have tried several times to change the image after the bulletproof arguments made above however my changes keep being removed. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 22:55, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
I agree we should pick a less controversial image such as the ones I have tried to change it to of a 2017 SV6 Commodore VF which is entirely uncontroversial and objectively more true as the image being displayed of a "ZB Commodore" is not in a Commodore it is an Opel Insignia and even if it were a Commodore we may as well change it because it is causing unnecessary controversy. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 22:58, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Stepho's above statement that we should pick a different image I entirely agree with however now he has suddenly changed his mind and decided to spend the rest of his life pointlessly editing the Wikipedia page for an Australian icon to show something considered by most to be sacrilege and once again I must say is objectively incorrect. That image is of an Opel Insignia so why not show a more popular image. I keep being told by Stepho to go to the talk page however the talk page contains nothing but arguments supporting my case. I await your response Stepho. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 23:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
I suggest using this image https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2017_Holden_Commodore_(VF_II_MY17)_SV6_sedan_(2017-11-18)_01.jpg#mw-jump-to-license DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 23:09, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
I am trying to find quality images of commodores that are public domain, I did try messaging owners on carsales for permission to use their images, hopefully I get some responses. Happy to see we are getting somewhere. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 02:32, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
I vote VF II Sedan DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 11:31, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
We've let this one go stale (that's a point against us) and MrDavr has decided to change it unilaterally to a purple VF. The purple image isn't too bad except for a man's head sticking out the roof like some type of macabre taxi sign - see WP:CARPIX for warning about background objects sticking up.
So far we've had MrDavr propose the red VF sedan, myself say that it is okay as my second choice, DavidMacolm voting for it and nobody decidedly against it. Shall we agree on the red VF sedan and move on to more constructive work? Stepho talk 08:58, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This 2007 listing contains significant uncited material near the start and end of the body, meaning it does not meet GA criterion 2b); it is also overloaded by images (and tagged accordingly) but that is not part of the GA criteria. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 19:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Holden Commodore was one of the Engineering and technology good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Why does this article group the VY and VZ Commodores with the models before them? The VY introduced an entirely new body design. - Mark 07:01, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
I believe Holden produced a royal wedding edition of the Holden Commodore, probably a VC, may have been a VH. The NSW plates had an ER prefix and a mini plate duplicated on the glovebox. Was this a factory product, dealer sales gimmick or just a privateers aftermarket touch? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.139.31.2 ( talk • contribs) 22:54, 2 November 2005
What happened to it? -- Jquarry 01:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I noticed that for the VS commodore it says that the engine retained the cast iron block and cylinder heads from the VR. While the cylinder head was still cast iron,. it was a completely different moulding. The VR still had the mouldings from when the engine was used as a V8 and the spark plugs for the front two cylinders were angled towards each other while the rear ones were angle away from the others. This was corrected on the VS and they all angled from the cylinder head the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.18.171 ( talk • contribs) 03:49, 6 March 2006
'toyota lexcen' redirects to holden commodore. i have a feeling someone's being naughty... but i don't know how to fix it. just thought i'd let people know. cheers riana 16:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
We seem to be getting a fair bit of attention on this article. Some is just clear vandalism, but there seems to be quite a bit of attention from those wanting to add point of view statements. I'll try and catch new ones with a citation request. Decromin 16:06, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
The picture on the VZ part is wrong. the VZ commodore as the fins that the side blinker is on. Its on the guard under the mirror, but it isnt in the picture...How come? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DRK-MRSTR ( talk • contribs) 11:26, 14 September 2006
I should point out that the Commodore was never a full-size car. For starters, the Commodore has never, and still is not, as big as a Falcon. When the Commodore was introduced in '78, it was significantly smaller than the Kingswood and was much closer to a 'mid-size' car. Although it continued to grow in size with each new generation, it still never quite became a full-size. Look at the facts - the Commodore is still less than 4.9m long, and about 1.85m wide. Those dimensions are about the same as a Camry, 380, Accord, or Sonata, which are all mid-size cars. A full-size is more like 5m+ long and 1.9m+ wide. For example, the Ford Crown Victoria in the US measures 5.4m long - that is a full size car. The Chrysler 300, another full-size car, is exactly 5m long. SOME variants of the Commodore are full-size, however. The wagon and ute are both on a stretched wheelbase, and as such are longer than 5m, as are the Statesman/Caprice. But the sedan with its short wheelbase, still falls short of a true full-size. Davez621 09:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree it should absolutely be classified as a Large car and not full sized. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 23:24, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Seems that there are forum links coming back onto this page. These links don't meet wiki criteria, but as other automotive pages have plenty of links to fan forums, I'm loathe to keep removing them. Any thoughts on how to treat them? Decromin 15:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Since this is split into separate articles, is the duplication really worth it?? Maybe a few basic notes, and the see X article thing may do? -- SunStar Net talk 00:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone think that this article should be nominated for Good Article status? Write your comments below. Senators Talk | Contribs 23:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Good work on such a long article. It passes on all criteria. Great job! Mit ch contribs 19:21, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
The article states that "In the VX and succeeding models, the Commodore Berlina became known simply as the Berlina" and quotes "Davis, Kennedy, Kennedy (Part Three), p. 111" to support this. However this ignores the fact that "Davis, Kennedy, Kennedy (Part Three), p. 107" supports the notation that the change happened with the VT rather than the VX. The VT brochure AD10652 of October 1997 also supports this as the two page spread on the Berlina uses the term Holden Berlina rather than Holden Commodore Berlina. GTHO ( talk) 11:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Although the present article has some vague detail about improvements made to each model it would be nice to see a more thorough and detailed anaylsis of improvements made to a specific model with a clear comparison to the previous model. I am presently trying to find information on a Holden Commodore site somewhere about which model may have the best reputation for reliability and quality etc. and this article at present doesn't really assist in that regard and it seems near impossible to find such information on the internet at all. If the article could be considered for updating in this regard or if someone could point me in the right direction for another site that might have such information it would be greatly appreciated, Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.198.171 ( talk) 10:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
VXII improved suspension, VXII was released September 2011 not early 2012. I waited for the VXII and my Acclaim sedan was registered at the Victorian Ringwood dealer on 20/9/2001 not "An updated Series II was launched in early 2002, featuring revised rear suspension system now equipped with toe control links to address the VT's issues.[108]" as claimed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.169.252 ( talk) 06:39, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Ah great to see illiteracy in action. Can someone identify what is ironic about using a name for a previous model, for a new model? Perhaps that person had better check the definition of Irony first. Thank you, he said sarcastically. Greg Locock ( talk) 23:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Why do we need two articles on the holden commodore. Its not like the holden commodore is of any international significance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.180.189.153 ( talk) 10:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Would be good to have a source on the claims of improvements with the Jap engine. Nevard ( talk) 21:27, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I believe that the image used in the main table isn't the best available Holden Commodore picture available on Wikipedia and Commons such as this one. I have already added it but it has been deleted and I don't know why.-- Pineapple fez ( talk) 04:08, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Some Holden pages say automobile, others car. The term automobile is rarely used in Australia or New Zealand, where Holdens were made. 77.44.45.91 ( talk) 19:08, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
(Moved from here) I find this NZ special very interesting. In an old notebook of mine I came across a mention of it, stating 129hp as the output. Also, was it only available with the 4-speed Jatco automatic? This seems unlikely but it is how the article is currently worded. Perhaps you can shed some light on this? And thanks for including the XT6 photo, btw. ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ ( talk) 08:36, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
(Moved from here) Also just happened to encounter the Vectra engined VN Commodore, also highly interesting. In the European market Vectra, such a non-catalyzed engine produced 95 kW (129 PS; 127 bhp), while in the Omega it produced 90 kW (122 PS; 121 bhp). Any clue as to what the output may have been for NZ and Singapore? ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ ( talk) 08:44, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
(Moved from here) I have been told that this car [VR series] was sold in Malaysia and Singapore as the Opel Calais, fitted with Opel's 2.6 litre inline-six. Could anyone please provide a source and more info? ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ ( talk) 09:05, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help), which states:Holden has followed the lead set by Ford with its new Fairmonts and given Calais the same nose treatment as its upscale long wheelbase models. But you won't be seeing it in your local Holden dealerships — yet.
This car is the new 2.6 litre Opel engined Calais destined for Singapore and Malaysia, where Holden currently sells about 40 per month. This is despite a price tag in Singapore of a mere $200,000 thanks to tariffs, taxes and a mandatory 'certificate of entitlement' which costs $100,000 per car. In Malaysia the Calais is a steal at $76,000. The simple but effective make-over involved fitting a Statesman bonnet with integral grille, and a Statesman front bumper.
Why has someone added sic to the referenced quote
AFAIK the Holden 1.9 litre was called the "Starfire", so why the sic?
I suspect it is probably someone who mistakenly thinks litre is spelt liter.
Can I/someone remove the sic? or is there a real reason for it being there that I don't understand?
Arjayay (
talk)
15:57, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Hmm, I see (now) the point of putting '[sic]' in the quote. However, it will probably confuse more people than it will help. In a similar vein, Chris added a ton of {{
typo}}
macros but these look like a warning that this is a typo to be fixed when it really means that this is a deliberate mistake in the source that looks like a typo but really isn't. Perhaps the {{
Not a typo}}
macro would be better because it stops bots, is clear to real life editors and doesn't show up at all for readers.
Stepho
talk
To the editors that want to make the infobox show 1978–2017 for the production dates: It's been mentioned in the press that the Holden will cease production in 2017. However, this may or may not be changed in the next few years. Perhaps the government will bail them out - or perhaps not. Perhaps GM will change its mind - or perhaps not. Perhaps the Commodore will be designed here but made overseas - or perhaps not. Large corporations have a history of changing the details of announcements. We don't know what will actually happen in 2017 and therefore we can not set the end of production date yet. WP:CRYSTALBALL explains this. Stepho talk 02:23, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
There is a citation by Tuckey which suggests that the Holden VB Commodore inspired Opel to make a similar car. I don't know if it's true or not, but I have a few minor concerns with the statement as it currently stands. While both the Holden and the South African Chevrolet Commodore made it to market first, the Germans did show the Opel Commodore in Frankfurt 1977. I don't know, it is indeed possible that Opel had planned on not having a car in the narrow gap between the Senator and the Rekord, but the Tuckey reference seems problematic to me as its wording also suggests that the Germans adopted the Commodore nameplate from Holden (Opel later picked up the bastard child to fit between its Rekord and Senator on the European market and named it – guess what? – Commodore
) when they had been using it since February 1967. Again, the European Commodore/Viceroy may very well have come about as a result of Australian input, but I find the Tuckey reference and its implications rather dubious.@
OSX:@
Stepho-wrs:
Oh, and please invite anyone else who might be able to shed some light on this. Cheers, Mr.choppers | ✎ 01:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
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the article about the Ute was removed in favour of a redirect to this page, with the argument of merging it into this page.
this has obviously not happened, and was done with barely any support for it (agreement of 2 people), after an earlier, more active discussion with inconclusive result on this.
therefore i suggest adding support for restoring that article in its original location at the talk page for it /info/en/?search=Talk:Holden_Ute TheFIST ( talk) 23:08, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
The reference https://www.caradvice.com.au/812851/holden-commodore-retired/ says 'The company has confirmed it will continue to sell MY19 Commodore and MY19 Astra variants to private buyers through 2020, "albeit with diminishing model availability as part of an orderly runout". The facelifted MY20 Commodore, confirmed last week, is available to fleet buyers right now.' The other references say that sales will continue in 2020 but don't mention the actual end of production. Note that my previous edit was based on a mistaken reading of a 2017 reference (I didn't check the date properly), so I'd like to check a bit more thoroughly this time. Stepho talk 11:15, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
The article says "The last Commodore - the last Holden vehicle to be manufactured in Australia - rolled off the line at the Elizabeth plant on 20 October 2017." Yet the sales table says that sales continued until at least 2019 (2020 data obviously not added yet). I can't see Holden stockpiling 2 or 3 years worth of cars. So, was the ZB made elsewhere? Stepho talk 21:05, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
As a summary article, we should have no more than 4 images per generation. Typically that would be
The full set of 101 images belong on the separate article for each generation, not here. Stepho talk 11:43, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Can anyone with insider knowledge talk about how long the 2017 last V8 Holdens will continue to run at Buthurst, I believe this years Holden which won was a 2017 private entry an incredible feat beating a new 2021 Mustang — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:2D57:7200:8520:D4E2:8DC5:2671 ( talk) 14:27, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
There's been too much back and forth editing of the lead image lately. Ignoring some bad choices of glary images, the main points have been:
I prefer the VF image but that is purely a personal preference. I can see points for either image and can see no valid points for removing either image. Stepho talk 00:36, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
are you admitting that disdain for the ZB as a Commodore simply all boils down to surface-level emotional reasoning - I never said nor have I in any way implied that I dislike the ZB (why should I - I come from an Opel-owning family, I have never been to Australia, and I love small FWD cars - in no way a Commodore dude). I am trying to explain to you in the simplest way possible that while one strike against the ZB would not be enough for exclusion, two might, and three strikes certainly should. And yes, if you could hypothetically remove one of the reasons, then it would affect the outcome. But you can't.
Using foreign design and/or manufacture as criteria is a rabbit hole that you probably don't want to go down. - Umm, yes, there is still a gradation between CBU, SKD, CKD, and locally built. No one is arguing that the Commodore line wasn't based on mostly German engineering, that's a straw man, but there is a clear distinction between the origin of the previous generations and the last one. If not, Holden's PR department wouldn't have had to stay so busy pushing pieces like this and this.
Anyhow, I am going to create a new, more productive section with some positive options instead of just discussing why the ZB is unsuitable. My main problem is that all photos of Commodores seem to be taken in front of twenty other Holdens, and that there are hundreds of Commodore subcategories in the Commons. Mr.choppers | ✎ 00:33, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I suggest this image and have tried to edit it to show this however keep being blocked by Stepho. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2017_Holden_Commodore_(VF_II_MY17)_SV6_sedan_(2017-11-18)_01.jpg#mw-jump-to-license DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 23:10, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Whether the ZB is a "real" Holden Commodore is an irrelevant distraction. The real issue is whether it makes a good rep for the Holden Commodore line at the top of the page. I hold that it is the least representative and worst choice because:
1. All the Holden Commodores except the last were manufactured by Holden. We could also add they had significant, and over time, increasing Holden designed modifications, culminating in the Holden developed zeta platforms 1 and 2 of the VE and VF. The ZB was manufactured in Germany by the then GM subsidiary Opel.
2. All the Holden made Commodores were rear-wheel drive. The ZB had a very different architecture because it was, uniquely among the Commodores, a front-wheel drive vehicle.
3. All the Holden made Commodores, including the last, sold in large numbers by Australian domestic market standards and became a common sight on Australian roads. Even the Holden made VF remains a relatively common sight despite its relatively disappointing sales compared to earlier models. The last Commodore, the Opel made ZB, was a sales disaster in its three years of 2018, 2019, 2020. The ZB is barely visible on Australian roads less than two years after it was cancelled. Its spectacular sales failure led to the termination of the Holden brand.
How such an unrepresentative and unpopular vehicle like the ZB Commodore be thought to be appropriate for the top of this article as a representative the entire Holden Commodore model lineup, I cannot imagine except as a very bad joke. Any other Holden Commodore model would be a vastly superior choice to the ZB for the above reasons. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
125.63.186.170 (
talk •
contribs)
Sadly, since the ZB is so unpopular, any ZB image will be changed within days by its haters. We will be forever having to protect it and also having to justify our protection of it - which isn't my plan for the rest of my life. Let's just pick a less controversial image and move on. Stepho talk 04:22, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I have tried several times to change the image after the bulletproof arguments made above however my changes keep being removed. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 22:55, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
I agree we should pick a less controversial image such as the ones I have tried to change it to of a 2017 SV6 Commodore VF which is entirely uncontroversial and objectively more true as the image being displayed of a "ZB Commodore" is not in a Commodore it is an Opel Insignia and even if it were a Commodore we may as well change it because it is causing unnecessary controversy. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 22:58, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Stepho's above statement that we should pick a different image I entirely agree with however now he has suddenly changed his mind and decided to spend the rest of his life pointlessly editing the Wikipedia page for an Australian icon to show something considered by most to be sacrilege and once again I must say is objectively incorrect. That image is of an Opel Insignia so why not show a more popular image. I keep being told by Stepho to go to the talk page however the talk page contains nothing but arguments supporting my case. I await your response Stepho. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 23:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
I suggest using this image https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2017_Holden_Commodore_(VF_II_MY17)_SV6_sedan_(2017-11-18)_01.jpg#mw-jump-to-license DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 23:09, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
I am trying to find quality images of commodores that are public domain, I did try messaging owners on carsales for permission to use their images, hopefully I get some responses. Happy to see we are getting somewhere. DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 02:32, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
I vote VF II Sedan DavidMalcolm1212112221 ( talk) 11:31, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
We've let this one go stale (that's a point against us) and MrDavr has decided to change it unilaterally to a purple VF. The purple image isn't too bad except for a man's head sticking out the roof like some type of macabre taxi sign - see WP:CARPIX for warning about background objects sticking up.
So far we've had MrDavr propose the red VF sedan, myself say that it is okay as my second choice, DavidMacolm voting for it and nobody decidedly against it. Shall we agree on the red VF sedan and move on to more constructive work? Stepho talk 08:58, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This 2007 listing contains significant uncited material near the start and end of the body, meaning it does not meet GA criterion 2b); it is also overloaded by images (and tagged accordingly) but that is not part of the GA criteria. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 19:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)