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some discussion of the ways in which Hindi written in Devanagari differs from sanskrit should be added here. E.g. loss of inherent vowel, dotted letters, diacritics for English loan words. Grover cleveland ( talk) 19:03, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Grover cleveland What do you mean by loss of inherent vowel? Most sources for beginner learners of Hindi say the letters all imply a vowel unless they're joined as a ligature? Though there's some very long debates on the Duolingo forums about whether this is accurate. Irtapil ( talk) 16:16, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Following a comment by Fowler&fowler in a discussion about the dab Hindustani, I wonder what the purpose of this article is. Disregarding for the moment the dispute about whether "Hindustani" or "Hindi–Urdu" is the appropriate label for the language with two distinct standardized high registers, this article is obviously a standalone created from what properly should be a section of Hindustani language/ Hindi–Urdu. I have two points here:
Since Hindustani language/ Hindi–Urdu is about the structural core of the language, wouldn't it be much more enlightening for readers to tabulate a synopsis of how the sounds of the language are mapped into the Perso-Arabic and Devanagari scripts? Including a note about the sounds which are commonly associated with only one of the literary registers, and notoriously create problems for speakers who are not familiar with that register. Sources for this won't be hard to find.
Pinging @ Fowler&fowler, Kwamikagami, Anupam, Kautilya3, Uanfala, Fylindfotberserk, and Irtapil: ideas/comments? – Austronesier ( talk) 11:10, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Austronesier The Urdu alphabet article currently only covers Urdu. The only other language I know if using that alphabet without additions is Punjabi... But that's kind of multiple languages, that would get complicated too complicated to be within the scope. Should the Urdu alphabet page include closely related alphabets like Sindhi? Irtapil ( talk) 12:24, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
I was about to say merge "Hindustani orthography" into Hindustani, but I much prefer the idea from Anupam "all of the scripts that have been used to write Hindustani" that would be a very interesting and worthwhile article. Could merge it into a parent article to reduce redundancy then move it back out if / when it gets too big? Irtapil ( talk) 16:11, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
One thing worth including, that the wiki pages on Urdu all seem to be lacking, is the Latin alphabet as used by native speakers. Hindi and Urdu are very frequently written in Latin characters, but most of the transliterations we have here on Wikipedia bare no resemblance to those that are actually used to communicate in the language. The formal academic English and transliterations are worthwhile for communicating the pronunciation to English speakers, but there's a whole third writing system used to actually communicate in Urdu and Hindi that's not covered well. When I come across examples of Urdu being used online, it's in the Latin alphabet more than half of the time, and never features things like ā, and I have never seen ' in the middle of a word. There's a brief note about written mutual intelligibility but not much detail in terms of usual transliterations etc.
Irtapil ( talk) 16:35, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Do the pronunciations in the section about schwa deletion sound kind of like Sanskrit? "For instance, राम is Rām (incorrect: Rāma), रचना is Rachnā (incorrect: Rachanā), वेद is Véd (incorrect: Véda) and नमकीन is Namkeen (incorrect Namakeena)." Or do they just sound like yoga enthusiasts who don't speak Hindi? Irtapil ( talk) 06:12, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hindustani orthography article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
some discussion of the ways in which Hindi written in Devanagari differs from sanskrit should be added here. E.g. loss of inherent vowel, dotted letters, diacritics for English loan words. Grover cleveland ( talk) 19:03, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Grover cleveland What do you mean by loss of inherent vowel? Most sources for beginner learners of Hindi say the letters all imply a vowel unless they're joined as a ligature? Though there's some very long debates on the Duolingo forums about whether this is accurate. Irtapil ( talk) 16:16, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Following a comment by Fowler&fowler in a discussion about the dab Hindustani, I wonder what the purpose of this article is. Disregarding for the moment the dispute about whether "Hindustani" or "Hindi–Urdu" is the appropriate label for the language with two distinct standardized high registers, this article is obviously a standalone created from what properly should be a section of Hindustani language/ Hindi–Urdu. I have two points here:
Since Hindustani language/ Hindi–Urdu is about the structural core of the language, wouldn't it be much more enlightening for readers to tabulate a synopsis of how the sounds of the language are mapped into the Perso-Arabic and Devanagari scripts? Including a note about the sounds which are commonly associated with only one of the literary registers, and notoriously create problems for speakers who are not familiar with that register. Sources for this won't be hard to find.
Pinging @ Fowler&fowler, Kwamikagami, Anupam, Kautilya3, Uanfala, Fylindfotberserk, and Irtapil: ideas/comments? – Austronesier ( talk) 11:10, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Austronesier The Urdu alphabet article currently only covers Urdu. The only other language I know if using that alphabet without additions is Punjabi... But that's kind of multiple languages, that would get complicated too complicated to be within the scope. Should the Urdu alphabet page include closely related alphabets like Sindhi? Irtapil ( talk) 12:24, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
I was about to say merge "Hindustani orthography" into Hindustani, but I much prefer the idea from Anupam "all of the scripts that have been used to write Hindustani" that would be a very interesting and worthwhile article. Could merge it into a parent article to reduce redundancy then move it back out if / when it gets too big? Irtapil ( talk) 16:11, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
One thing worth including, that the wiki pages on Urdu all seem to be lacking, is the Latin alphabet as used by native speakers. Hindi and Urdu are very frequently written in Latin characters, but most of the transliterations we have here on Wikipedia bare no resemblance to those that are actually used to communicate in the language. The formal academic English and transliterations are worthwhile for communicating the pronunciation to English speakers, but there's a whole third writing system used to actually communicate in Urdu and Hindi that's not covered well. When I come across examples of Urdu being used online, it's in the Latin alphabet more than half of the time, and never features things like ā, and I have never seen ' in the middle of a word. There's a brief note about written mutual intelligibility but not much detail in terms of usual transliterations etc.
Irtapil ( talk) 16:35, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Do the pronunciations in the section about schwa deletion sound kind of like Sanskrit? "For instance, राम is Rām (incorrect: Rāma), रचना is Rachnā (incorrect: Rachanā), वेद is Véd (incorrect: Véda) and नमकीन is Namkeen (incorrect Namakeena)." Or do they just sound like yoga enthusiasts who don't speak Hindi? Irtapil ( talk) 06:12, 28 April 2020 (UTC)