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When receiving a foreign head of state or emissary, the Dutch anthem is not allowed to be played if there is no member of the Dutch Royal House present, this is virtually unique in the world as most countries play their own anthem and then play the anthem of the foreign relation.[8]
Firstly the reference link is broken so this statement goes unproven. Secondly the reason that the link is broken is simply because the article was outdated and removed by the site. In 2004 the queen wanted to claim the anthem which was later officially denied. I think the best is to just remove this phrase, but I am not a frequent Wikipedia contributor and don't want to take that decision. See http://geschiedenis.vpro.nl/artikelen/34627128/ and judge for yourself. Erniecom ( talk) 17:05, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I know that the above sentence is often translated as 'It will be soon done (=over) here'. This is probably fine if the sentence is on its own. However, it is preceded by 'Als vrome christen leven', which means 'Living as a pious christian'. The two have to be connected, since 'als vrome christen leven' is not a complete sentence in itself. You cannot translate it as 'Live as a pious christian'. So, taken the two sentence together, I arrive at the translation "Living as a pious christian, it will be soon done here", where "here" is the Netherlands. In other words: soon you will be free to serve God in the way you want. I think this translation also fits the meaning of the complete stanza much better: it is meant as a consolation of William's oppressed people. The somewhat pessimistic "it will soon be all over" doesn't seem to be a very fitting conclusion to this stanza.
Could the author who proposed the translation "It will be soon done here" reply to this?
I don't know where you all see problems with the term "of German descend" ("van Duitsen bloedt"). At the time the song was written the Netherlands regarded themselves as a part of Germany: die niederen deutschen Lande (the lower German lands). The word "Dutch" comes from Deutsch, f. e. the Pennsylvania Dutch who are all of German descend. Nowadays German and Dutch are two different things, but at the time "Wilhelmus" was written both words had the same meaning: deutsch.
This resentment of Germans has been present in the Low Countries since the 16th century, but today’s resentment of Germans mostly comes from the Dutch experiences in the Second World War. What is this all about? I think this might give the idea that Dutch people really hate germans, which is not the case. There might of course be the occasionall "german joke" but this is out of perspective imo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.141.132.155 ( talk) 10:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
There is some really poor argument over here. Really bad. First of all if you want to get technical. There is no such thing has a "German" people. Modern day Germans are made up of different tribes of Germanics. The Dutch are one of those tribes and the English are a combination of two Germanic tribes from Germany and contributions from Scandinavia. William is a German but then again so are the Dutch. So why argue? It's the 21 Century. This kind of silly nationalism is part of the past. We ALL NEED Germany. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Furious Stormrage (
talk •
contribs)
16:14, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, what happened to this discussion and why was no final decision reached? it seems like valid points were made on both sides and merely using "Dutch" seems a little bit easy or rather bordering on oversimplification/misleading. I think this point at the very least deserves a caption or remark in the lyrics. At any rate, I'd be glad if this could either be finally decided or more likely - if both points are valid - at the very least appear in the article too. Looking forward to any constructive input. Cheers.
Avichai~dewiki ( talk) 20:51, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
When singing the anthem, us dutch only sing the first and sixth stanza. While they are color-coded to reflect this (presumably), it's not mentioned explicitly anywhere in the text. Mr.WaeseL 12:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
If you take the first letter of each verse, they will make the word: Willem van Nazzov This is the old-dutch name for Willem van Nassau(we)
I do not dare to write into the main article, but maybe someone else can do that? --22:36, 2006 Jun 16 (UTC)
The phrase
Dat ik doch vroom mag blijven
is not properly translated with
so that I shall remain pious
"Vroom" is indeed "pious" in modern Dutch, and it will certainly be interpreted this way by all contemporary speakers who aren't also historically inclined, but originally "vroom" meant "strong", "steadfast". See the Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal -- if you can. :-) -- JRM 23:06, 2004 Oct 16 (UTC)
Yes I knew that but you should note that I didn't use a translation but the English version of the lyrics ;-) Rex 13:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Ben ik van duitsen bloed
Duitsen means German, anyway you put it. Everyone in the netherlands has this to criticize and motions have been filed to change this part.
The reference to John of Salisbury, supposedly for the purposes of "clarifying" the article, is an absurd irrelevance. If John of Salisbury has got anything whatsoever to do with the Wilhelmus, please enlighten us! If it's just a randomly chosen instance of a name taking the form "A of B", it is merely confusing, and such names are so common that illustrating their use by reference to another completely random one is unnecessary and almost the exact opposite of "clarification".
The precise details of orthographic variation are also beside the point, at least in the lead; but it is perhaps useful to mention (even if it is extremely obvious in the context) that "Nassov" is an orthographic variation of "Nassau", so I have done so. Vilĉjo 14:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
The reference to John 'of Salisbury is meant to clarify the use of Dutch 'van' to avoid confusion with anglicised forms of Dutch names such as Martin van buren or Dick van Dyke.
Maybe the orthografic question is very simple for you, but not for many others I will revert your edits untill you have provided more convincing argumtents. Sander 15:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to rewrite the article in the course of this week. Just announcing. I'm thinking of a complete translation and a format close to this in terms of formatting and style and perhaps an expanded section on the German, Germanic, Dutch "problem". Rex 20:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I thought that 'Duitsen(Dietsen) bloed' means 'from the folk'. Is that correct?
There are mixed theories about what exactly the author meant with "Duytschen", but it's all very complicated. Currently someone translated it as "German", I will change this soon as "Dutch" is in many respects (etymologically) closer to the original meaning.
"Duytschen" or "Duytsch/Duits" means "German in Modern Dutch", but the root (diut) means "of the (common) people". 'Given that, the meaning could be that William says that he's "one of the Dutch" (which would be in canon the lines in which he explains how he spend his noble blood for the Dutch) but the problem here is that "Duytsch" in that sense, is never really used in other documents of the time with that meaning (as that would have been Dietsch, Dutch).
Another explanation is that it means German and refers to his German heritage (as he was born in Dillenburg, now in Germany) but this is somewhat odd as Germans, being much poorer, were looked down upon by the Dutch at the time, so saying he was of German blood would not really raise his status.
Then, there's the hypothesis that says that it means Dutch, and that he says he himself is of Dutch blood. Note that Duits, Diets and Duuts were pretty much regional variants at the time ... Well see the Dietsch article for more information.10:39, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Could the original author of this paragraph explain why this should be in here? If this 'adaptation' would have been a translation of the text into modern Dutch, I could see what it adds. Since the new lyrics have nothing to do whatsoever with the original Wilhelmus, it is completely useless.
Please remove this section unless there are good reasons for keeping it. And at least, move it downward. As it is now, it comes before the real lyrics, which is very disturbing.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.247.100.39 ( talk • contribs)
It wasn't completely at random, but I understand where you're coming from. I added the "humerous adaption" and the reference to the Utrechts nieuwsblad to "prove" the statement that some consider it a bit obsolete is not just POV of mine, but actually the case. I see it as a kind of illustrating the point being made there. Rex 10:58, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
As User:Rex Germanus is very busy moving articles (mainly those covering German matters, coincidentally) to new titles he calls "English", I decided to support him with this move of this anthem to The William. This is uncontroversial, as the person in question is also called William the Silent in English Wikipedia, not Wilhelmus. Compare to the much more famous Emperor William II of Germany, who is not called Kaiser Wilhelm zwo here either. Besides, William the Silent was born in present day (and then, of course) Germany citation needed, and the lyrics also are a matter of interpretation, too.
Rex, ( Personal attack removed) , surely would not support Dutch nationalism.-- Matthead discuß! O 01:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I just want to add that I considered Rex`s antipathy against Germans respectively Germany always with a certain sence of humor but that he now starts converting German proper nouns (Eigennamen) into English is not acceptable at all. However, if he thinks that this is necessary on English Wikipedia I will from now on support him by changing eg Dutch names into English starting with Johannes Hendrik van den Broeck whose English name is - for sure - John Henry from the Broeck. I hope that no Dutch nationalist will try to revert it back to the Dutch name! Please refer also to my "Scale on Dutch Nationalism". Kind regards, ( 194.9.5.10 10:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC))
Rex, you are really a funny guy but please refrain from peronal attacks and removing RPA, thx! ( 194.9.5.12 14:33, 1 March 2007 (UTC))
Should this article say anything about the song Nederlands o Nederlands, sung in part to the tune of Auld Lang Syne, which I have seen several times sung at sporting events as though it were a national anthem? Does this song have any official status? Is it prefered by people who dislike the overtly Christian nature of Het Wilhelmus? Question arising: how do Dutch Muslims feel about singing Het Wilhelmus? Do they do so? Are there any suggestions of changing the words to something less aggressively Christian? Intelligent Mr Toad 10:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I understand that the lyrics are sanctified by history, strange though they seem to foreigners. I suspect there are more people in the modern Netherlands, as in most European countruies, who place their faith in their football team than in God. Perhaps someone could write Het Cruijffus. Intelligent Mr Toad 06:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Is that the technical term? 84.53.74.196 18:14, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
How is Het Wilhelmus different from Luxembourg's De Wilhelmus? Ahassan05 ( talk) 20:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)ahassan05
In this item of the Wilhelmus, the first national anthem, the 16th century word "Duytsch" is wrongly translated. The word "Duytsche" was the language spoken both in Germany and in the 17 Netherlands (Northen and Southern Netherlands and Northern France). The Netherlands word "Duytsch" was correctly translated in the English word "Dutch". "The "Duytsch" language formed later in the Netherlands the "Diets" language, and in Germany "Duytsch" formed later the German language of "Deutsch" or "German". Therfore the word "Duytsch" is wrongly translated in 'Duitsen". "Am I of Dutch blood", must be "Ben ik van Dietsen bloed". It had nothing to do with the fact that William of Orange came from Nassau in Germany. They only spoke the same language. GoldenAgeHolland ( talk) 02:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Sorry but can You give a source for that! Because the lyrics speaks about Duitse Bloed (Blood), so its a question of descend, the lyrics don't speak of tongue or language. So Wilhelmus wanted to state his origin and in that time there was no national difference between the Netherlands and Germany because both didn't exist. There was only the Holy Roman Empire (with several territories), but the Duytsch/Dutch/German language with its varieties unified the people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.158.199.246 ( talk) 23:09, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
What I was trying to say in the less-than-perfect summaries of my last two edits: Let's try either to keep speculation about the possible ethno-linguistic content of terms used in the Wilhelmus out of the article, or source them properly. Iblardi ( talk) 22:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
The original lyrics were in Old German, later they were translated into Dutch. Wilhelm writes of "German blood", not line, and certainly not of "Dutch blood":
"Wilhelmus von Nassawe bin ich von teutschem blut, dem vaterland getrawe bleib ich bis in den todt; ein printze von Uranien bin ich frey unerfehrt, den könig von Hispanien hab ich allzeit geehrt.
In Gottes forcht zu leben hab ich allzeit betracht, darum bin ich vertrieben, umb land, und leut gebracht; aber Gott soll mich regieren als ein gut instrument das ich mag widerkehren wol in mein regiment.
Leid euch, mein untersassen, die auffrecht sein von art, Gott wird euch nicht verlassen, all seit jhr nun beschwert; wer from begert zu leben der bitt Gott nacht und tag, das er mir krafft wöll geben, das ich euch helffen mag.
Leib und gut als zusammen habe ich nit gespart, mein brüder hoch mit name n haben euch auch verwart; Graff Adolff ist geblieben in Friesland in der schlacht, sein seel im ewigen leben erwardt den jüngsten tag.
Edel und hochgeboren, von keyserlichem stamm, ein fürst des reichs erkoren, als ein from christenman, für gottes wort geprisen hab ich frey unverzagt, als ein held sonder forchten, mein edel blut gewagt.
Mein schild und mein vertrawen bistu, o Gott mein herr, auff dich so will ich bawen, verlas mich nimmer mehr; das ich doch from mag bleiben, dir dienen zu aller stund, die tyranney vertreiben die mir mein hertz durchwund.
Von allen, die mich beschweren, und mein verfolger sein, mein Gott, wölst doch bewaren den trewen diener dein; das sie mich nit verraschen in ihrem bösen mut, jr hende nit thun waschen in mein unschüldigen blut.
Als David muste fliehen vor Saulo dem tyrann, so hab ich müssen weichen mit manchem edelman; aber Gott thet jhn erheben, erlösen aus aller not, ein königreich gegeben in Israel, sehr gros.
Noch sawr werd ich empfangen von Gott meim herren das süsz, darnach so thut verlangen mein fürstelich gemüt; das ich doch möge sterben mit ehren in dem feld, ein ewigs reich erwerben als ein getrewer heldt.
Nichts thut mich mehr erbarmen in meinem widersput, denn das man sicht verarme n' des königs landen gut; das euch die Spanier krencke n, o edel Niderland gut, wenn ich daran gedencken, mein edel hertz das blut.
Als ein printz auffgesessen mit meiner heereskrafft, wol von dem feind vermessen hab ich die schlacht verwacht; der, bey Mastrich lag vergraben, beförchtet mein gewalt, mein reuter sach man traben sehr mutig durch das feld.
So es der wil des herren auf die zeit wer gewest, het ich gern wöllen kehren von euch dis schwere tempest; aber der herr dort oben, der alle ding regiert, den man allzeit mus loben, der hat es nit begert.
Sehr christlich war getrieben mein fürstelich gemüt; standhafftig ist geblieben mein hertz in widerspüt; den herrn hab ich gebeten, aus meines hertzen grundt, das er mein sach wöll richten, mein unschuld machen kundt.
Urlaub, mein armen schaffen, die sein in grosser not, ewer hirt der sol nit schlaffen; und, seid jr nun verstrewt, zu Gott wölt euch begeben, sein heilsam wort nempt an, als fromme christen leben, sol hie bald sein gethan.
Vor Gott wil ich bekennen und seiner grossen macht, das ich zu keinen zeiten den könig hab veracht, den das ich Gott den herren, der höchsten majestet, hab müssen obedieren in der gerechtigkeit."
By the way, Dutch is a term and a language, not a race or ancestery. The Dutch are of German (Germanic) blood, and Wilhelm, born in the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation proudly concends this fact. 91.66.8.26 ( talk) 20:05, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I wonder why this is being discussed here... as the Dutch Wikipedia isn't even thinking about this "problem". Besides, this so called German blood is Duytschen bloet, Duytsch was the language back then, Nederduyts (and later Dutch) and German are both descended of that language. Take some history lessons and forget this discussion. Dqfn13 ( talk) 18:18, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Favonian ( talk) 11:22, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Het Wilhelmus → Wilhelmus – The Dutch definite article het is not part of the proper name that is the short title of the Dutch national anthem. Dutch "het Wilhelmus" should be translated in English as "the Wilhelmus", as is done here on the official website of the Dutch Royal House. And per WP:THE, the word "the" should then not be included in the page title. Relisted. Favonian ( talk) 08:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC) -- Lambiam 14:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there any reason "Verlaat mij nimmermeer" is written with a capital V? I'd correct that myself, but I'm not sure if it's a mistake or written that way intentionally. - Lucidfox ( talk) 08:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be "religious persecutions"? I'm not familiar with Dutch history, so I wouldn't want to make the edit myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.251.51.201 ( talk) 10:32, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to ask for the word "merely" to be struck from the fourth paragraph of the preamble: Hoornes and Egmont felt sufficiently strongly about the need to resist Alba's abuses, which rivalled those of WWII, to be willing to die for their cause. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.18.202 ( talk) 19:16, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Why is a song devoted to William called "Wilhelmus"? Should it not be called "Williamus"? 2601:806:4301:C100:68A6:89F9:6AA:FC80 ( talk) 17:48, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Article says "Adriaen Valerius recorded the current melody of the "Wilhelmus" in his Nederlantsche Gedenck-clanck in 1626," but the biography says he died in 1625. – Illegitimate Barrister ( talk • contribs), 16:23, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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When receiving a foreign head of state or emissary, the Dutch anthem is not allowed to be played if there is no member of the Dutch Royal House present, this is virtually unique in the world as most countries play their own anthem and then play the anthem of the foreign relation.[8]
Firstly the reference link is broken so this statement goes unproven. Secondly the reason that the link is broken is simply because the article was outdated and removed by the site. In 2004 the queen wanted to claim the anthem which was later officially denied. I think the best is to just remove this phrase, but I am not a frequent Wikipedia contributor and don't want to take that decision. See http://geschiedenis.vpro.nl/artikelen/34627128/ and judge for yourself. Erniecom ( talk) 17:05, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I know that the above sentence is often translated as 'It will be soon done (=over) here'. This is probably fine if the sentence is on its own. However, it is preceded by 'Als vrome christen leven', which means 'Living as a pious christian'. The two have to be connected, since 'als vrome christen leven' is not a complete sentence in itself. You cannot translate it as 'Live as a pious christian'. So, taken the two sentence together, I arrive at the translation "Living as a pious christian, it will be soon done here", where "here" is the Netherlands. In other words: soon you will be free to serve God in the way you want. I think this translation also fits the meaning of the complete stanza much better: it is meant as a consolation of William's oppressed people. The somewhat pessimistic "it will soon be all over" doesn't seem to be a very fitting conclusion to this stanza.
Could the author who proposed the translation "It will be soon done here" reply to this?
I don't know where you all see problems with the term "of German descend" ("van Duitsen bloedt"). At the time the song was written the Netherlands regarded themselves as a part of Germany: die niederen deutschen Lande (the lower German lands). The word "Dutch" comes from Deutsch, f. e. the Pennsylvania Dutch who are all of German descend. Nowadays German and Dutch are two different things, but at the time "Wilhelmus" was written both words had the same meaning: deutsch.
This resentment of Germans has been present in the Low Countries since the 16th century, but today’s resentment of Germans mostly comes from the Dutch experiences in the Second World War. What is this all about? I think this might give the idea that Dutch people really hate germans, which is not the case. There might of course be the occasionall "german joke" but this is out of perspective imo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.141.132.155 ( talk) 10:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
There is some really poor argument over here. Really bad. First of all if you want to get technical. There is no such thing has a "German" people. Modern day Germans are made up of different tribes of Germanics. The Dutch are one of those tribes and the English are a combination of two Germanic tribes from Germany and contributions from Scandinavia. William is a German but then again so are the Dutch. So why argue? It's the 21 Century. This kind of silly nationalism is part of the past. We ALL NEED Germany. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Furious Stormrage (
talk •
contribs)
16:14, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, what happened to this discussion and why was no final decision reached? it seems like valid points were made on both sides and merely using "Dutch" seems a little bit easy or rather bordering on oversimplification/misleading. I think this point at the very least deserves a caption or remark in the lyrics. At any rate, I'd be glad if this could either be finally decided or more likely - if both points are valid - at the very least appear in the article too. Looking forward to any constructive input. Cheers.
Avichai~dewiki ( talk) 20:51, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
When singing the anthem, us dutch only sing the first and sixth stanza. While they are color-coded to reflect this (presumably), it's not mentioned explicitly anywhere in the text. Mr.WaeseL 12:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
If you take the first letter of each verse, they will make the word: Willem van Nazzov This is the old-dutch name for Willem van Nassau(we)
I do not dare to write into the main article, but maybe someone else can do that? --22:36, 2006 Jun 16 (UTC)
The phrase
Dat ik doch vroom mag blijven
is not properly translated with
so that I shall remain pious
"Vroom" is indeed "pious" in modern Dutch, and it will certainly be interpreted this way by all contemporary speakers who aren't also historically inclined, but originally "vroom" meant "strong", "steadfast". See the Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal -- if you can. :-) -- JRM 23:06, 2004 Oct 16 (UTC)
Yes I knew that but you should note that I didn't use a translation but the English version of the lyrics ;-) Rex 13:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Ben ik van duitsen bloed
Duitsen means German, anyway you put it. Everyone in the netherlands has this to criticize and motions have been filed to change this part.
The reference to John of Salisbury, supposedly for the purposes of "clarifying" the article, is an absurd irrelevance. If John of Salisbury has got anything whatsoever to do with the Wilhelmus, please enlighten us! If it's just a randomly chosen instance of a name taking the form "A of B", it is merely confusing, and such names are so common that illustrating their use by reference to another completely random one is unnecessary and almost the exact opposite of "clarification".
The precise details of orthographic variation are also beside the point, at least in the lead; but it is perhaps useful to mention (even if it is extremely obvious in the context) that "Nassov" is an orthographic variation of "Nassau", so I have done so. Vilĉjo 14:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
The reference to John 'of Salisbury is meant to clarify the use of Dutch 'van' to avoid confusion with anglicised forms of Dutch names such as Martin van buren or Dick van Dyke.
Maybe the orthografic question is very simple for you, but not for many others I will revert your edits untill you have provided more convincing argumtents. Sander 15:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to rewrite the article in the course of this week. Just announcing. I'm thinking of a complete translation and a format close to this in terms of formatting and style and perhaps an expanded section on the German, Germanic, Dutch "problem". Rex 20:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I thought that 'Duitsen(Dietsen) bloed' means 'from the folk'. Is that correct?
There are mixed theories about what exactly the author meant with "Duytschen", but it's all very complicated. Currently someone translated it as "German", I will change this soon as "Dutch" is in many respects (etymologically) closer to the original meaning.
"Duytschen" or "Duytsch/Duits" means "German in Modern Dutch", but the root (diut) means "of the (common) people". 'Given that, the meaning could be that William says that he's "one of the Dutch" (which would be in canon the lines in which he explains how he spend his noble blood for the Dutch) but the problem here is that "Duytsch" in that sense, is never really used in other documents of the time with that meaning (as that would have been Dietsch, Dutch).
Another explanation is that it means German and refers to his German heritage (as he was born in Dillenburg, now in Germany) but this is somewhat odd as Germans, being much poorer, were looked down upon by the Dutch at the time, so saying he was of German blood would not really raise his status.
Then, there's the hypothesis that says that it means Dutch, and that he says he himself is of Dutch blood. Note that Duits, Diets and Duuts were pretty much regional variants at the time ... Well see the Dietsch article for more information.10:39, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Could the original author of this paragraph explain why this should be in here? If this 'adaptation' would have been a translation of the text into modern Dutch, I could see what it adds. Since the new lyrics have nothing to do whatsoever with the original Wilhelmus, it is completely useless.
Please remove this section unless there are good reasons for keeping it. And at least, move it downward. As it is now, it comes before the real lyrics, which is very disturbing.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.247.100.39 ( talk • contribs)
It wasn't completely at random, but I understand where you're coming from. I added the "humerous adaption" and the reference to the Utrechts nieuwsblad to "prove" the statement that some consider it a bit obsolete is not just POV of mine, but actually the case. I see it as a kind of illustrating the point being made there. Rex 10:58, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
As User:Rex Germanus is very busy moving articles (mainly those covering German matters, coincidentally) to new titles he calls "English", I decided to support him with this move of this anthem to The William. This is uncontroversial, as the person in question is also called William the Silent in English Wikipedia, not Wilhelmus. Compare to the much more famous Emperor William II of Germany, who is not called Kaiser Wilhelm zwo here either. Besides, William the Silent was born in present day (and then, of course) Germany citation needed, and the lyrics also are a matter of interpretation, too.
Rex, ( Personal attack removed) , surely would not support Dutch nationalism.-- Matthead discuß! O 01:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I just want to add that I considered Rex`s antipathy against Germans respectively Germany always with a certain sence of humor but that he now starts converting German proper nouns (Eigennamen) into English is not acceptable at all. However, if he thinks that this is necessary on English Wikipedia I will from now on support him by changing eg Dutch names into English starting with Johannes Hendrik van den Broeck whose English name is - for sure - John Henry from the Broeck. I hope that no Dutch nationalist will try to revert it back to the Dutch name! Please refer also to my "Scale on Dutch Nationalism". Kind regards, ( 194.9.5.10 10:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC))
Rex, you are really a funny guy but please refrain from peronal attacks and removing RPA, thx! ( 194.9.5.12 14:33, 1 March 2007 (UTC))
Should this article say anything about the song Nederlands o Nederlands, sung in part to the tune of Auld Lang Syne, which I have seen several times sung at sporting events as though it were a national anthem? Does this song have any official status? Is it prefered by people who dislike the overtly Christian nature of Het Wilhelmus? Question arising: how do Dutch Muslims feel about singing Het Wilhelmus? Do they do so? Are there any suggestions of changing the words to something less aggressively Christian? Intelligent Mr Toad 10:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I understand that the lyrics are sanctified by history, strange though they seem to foreigners. I suspect there are more people in the modern Netherlands, as in most European countruies, who place their faith in their football team than in God. Perhaps someone could write Het Cruijffus. Intelligent Mr Toad 06:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Is that the technical term? 84.53.74.196 18:14, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
How is Het Wilhelmus different from Luxembourg's De Wilhelmus? Ahassan05 ( talk) 20:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)ahassan05
In this item of the Wilhelmus, the first national anthem, the 16th century word "Duytsch" is wrongly translated. The word "Duytsche" was the language spoken both in Germany and in the 17 Netherlands (Northen and Southern Netherlands and Northern France). The Netherlands word "Duytsch" was correctly translated in the English word "Dutch". "The "Duytsch" language formed later in the Netherlands the "Diets" language, and in Germany "Duytsch" formed later the German language of "Deutsch" or "German". Therfore the word "Duytsch" is wrongly translated in 'Duitsen". "Am I of Dutch blood", must be "Ben ik van Dietsen bloed". It had nothing to do with the fact that William of Orange came from Nassau in Germany. They only spoke the same language. GoldenAgeHolland ( talk) 02:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Sorry but can You give a source for that! Because the lyrics speaks about Duitse Bloed (Blood), so its a question of descend, the lyrics don't speak of tongue or language. So Wilhelmus wanted to state his origin and in that time there was no national difference between the Netherlands and Germany because both didn't exist. There was only the Holy Roman Empire (with several territories), but the Duytsch/Dutch/German language with its varieties unified the people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.158.199.246 ( talk) 23:09, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
What I was trying to say in the less-than-perfect summaries of my last two edits: Let's try either to keep speculation about the possible ethno-linguistic content of terms used in the Wilhelmus out of the article, or source them properly. Iblardi ( talk) 22:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
The original lyrics were in Old German, later they were translated into Dutch. Wilhelm writes of "German blood", not line, and certainly not of "Dutch blood":
"Wilhelmus von Nassawe bin ich von teutschem blut, dem vaterland getrawe bleib ich bis in den todt; ein printze von Uranien bin ich frey unerfehrt, den könig von Hispanien hab ich allzeit geehrt.
In Gottes forcht zu leben hab ich allzeit betracht, darum bin ich vertrieben, umb land, und leut gebracht; aber Gott soll mich regieren als ein gut instrument das ich mag widerkehren wol in mein regiment.
Leid euch, mein untersassen, die auffrecht sein von art, Gott wird euch nicht verlassen, all seit jhr nun beschwert; wer from begert zu leben der bitt Gott nacht und tag, das er mir krafft wöll geben, das ich euch helffen mag.
Leib und gut als zusammen habe ich nit gespart, mein brüder hoch mit name n haben euch auch verwart; Graff Adolff ist geblieben in Friesland in der schlacht, sein seel im ewigen leben erwardt den jüngsten tag.
Edel und hochgeboren, von keyserlichem stamm, ein fürst des reichs erkoren, als ein from christenman, für gottes wort geprisen hab ich frey unverzagt, als ein held sonder forchten, mein edel blut gewagt.
Mein schild und mein vertrawen bistu, o Gott mein herr, auff dich so will ich bawen, verlas mich nimmer mehr; das ich doch from mag bleiben, dir dienen zu aller stund, die tyranney vertreiben die mir mein hertz durchwund.
Von allen, die mich beschweren, und mein verfolger sein, mein Gott, wölst doch bewaren den trewen diener dein; das sie mich nit verraschen in ihrem bösen mut, jr hende nit thun waschen in mein unschüldigen blut.
Als David muste fliehen vor Saulo dem tyrann, so hab ich müssen weichen mit manchem edelman; aber Gott thet jhn erheben, erlösen aus aller not, ein königreich gegeben in Israel, sehr gros.
Noch sawr werd ich empfangen von Gott meim herren das süsz, darnach so thut verlangen mein fürstelich gemüt; das ich doch möge sterben mit ehren in dem feld, ein ewigs reich erwerben als ein getrewer heldt.
Nichts thut mich mehr erbarmen in meinem widersput, denn das man sicht verarme n' des königs landen gut; das euch die Spanier krencke n, o edel Niderland gut, wenn ich daran gedencken, mein edel hertz das blut.
Als ein printz auffgesessen mit meiner heereskrafft, wol von dem feind vermessen hab ich die schlacht verwacht; der, bey Mastrich lag vergraben, beförchtet mein gewalt, mein reuter sach man traben sehr mutig durch das feld.
So es der wil des herren auf die zeit wer gewest, het ich gern wöllen kehren von euch dis schwere tempest; aber der herr dort oben, der alle ding regiert, den man allzeit mus loben, der hat es nit begert.
Sehr christlich war getrieben mein fürstelich gemüt; standhafftig ist geblieben mein hertz in widerspüt; den herrn hab ich gebeten, aus meines hertzen grundt, das er mein sach wöll richten, mein unschuld machen kundt.
Urlaub, mein armen schaffen, die sein in grosser not, ewer hirt der sol nit schlaffen; und, seid jr nun verstrewt, zu Gott wölt euch begeben, sein heilsam wort nempt an, als fromme christen leben, sol hie bald sein gethan.
Vor Gott wil ich bekennen und seiner grossen macht, das ich zu keinen zeiten den könig hab veracht, den das ich Gott den herren, der höchsten majestet, hab müssen obedieren in der gerechtigkeit."
By the way, Dutch is a term and a language, not a race or ancestery. The Dutch are of German (Germanic) blood, and Wilhelm, born in the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation proudly concends this fact. 91.66.8.26 ( talk) 20:05, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I wonder why this is being discussed here... as the Dutch Wikipedia isn't even thinking about this "problem". Besides, this so called German blood is Duytschen bloet, Duytsch was the language back then, Nederduyts (and later Dutch) and German are both descended of that language. Take some history lessons and forget this discussion. Dqfn13 ( talk) 18:18, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Favonian ( talk) 11:22, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Het Wilhelmus → Wilhelmus – The Dutch definite article het is not part of the proper name that is the short title of the Dutch national anthem. Dutch "het Wilhelmus" should be translated in English as "the Wilhelmus", as is done here on the official website of the Dutch Royal House. And per WP:THE, the word "the" should then not be included in the page title. Relisted. Favonian ( talk) 08:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC) -- Lambiam 14:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Is there any reason "Verlaat mij nimmermeer" is written with a capital V? I'd correct that myself, but I'm not sure if it's a mistake or written that way intentionally. - Lucidfox ( talk) 08:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be "religious persecutions"? I'm not familiar with Dutch history, so I wouldn't want to make the edit myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.251.51.201 ( talk) 10:32, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to ask for the word "merely" to be struck from the fourth paragraph of the preamble: Hoornes and Egmont felt sufficiently strongly about the need to resist Alba's abuses, which rivalled those of WWII, to be willing to die for their cause. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.18.202 ( talk) 19:16, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Why is a song devoted to William called "Wilhelmus"? Should it not be called "Williamus"? 2601:806:4301:C100:68A6:89F9:6AA:FC80 ( talk) 17:48, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Article says "Adriaen Valerius recorded the current melody of the "Wilhelmus" in his Nederlantsche Gedenck-clanck in 1626," but the biography says he died in 1625. – Illegitimate Barrister ( talk • contribs), 16:23, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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