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I just note my change here because there is a really nasty debate above me.
Old first paragraph:
New first paragraph:
I am not an expert in thermodynamics, so any comment on my rewrite is appreciated. Pinging User:Bilorv, User:Dominic Mayers, User:Kbrose, and User:Cessaune per above. CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 16:09, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
subjective POV blubber, and not born of the experience of teaching. He forgets that the audience here are not his students. I maintain my common sense point. There is nothing non rigorous in explaining the meaning of a quantity , called heat, in the context of the laws that are introduced. Also, I am not saying that it's a bad idea to always use the term heat in a way that is consistent with the use of the term in these laws. But, we can do all these things, without making a big deal about terminology in the lead. We can mention at some point in the article that we use the term heat only with a given meaning, if we think it can help. It's not clear to me that it will help that much, but that is not what I discuss here. I say that it's weird to make a big deal about this in the lead. It makes the subject seem superficial. Dominic Mayers ( talk) 02:55, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
There is a paragraph in the article that states: "Today's narrow definition of heat in physics contrasts with its use in common language, in some engineering disciplines, and in the historical scientific development of thermodynamics in the caloric theory. The terminology of heat in these instances may be replaced accurately with entropy." This is backed up by a citation to a textbook by Hans U. Fuchs. However, this textbook is associated with the Karlsruhe Physics Course ( de:Karlsruher Physikkurs), a somewhat controversial pedagogical program that renames some thermodynamical terms, and emphasizes the flow of entropy. I think this claim that common notion of heat can often be replaced by entropy should be backed up by mainstream sources. In case that is not possible, it should be removed. Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 06:27, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
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Delete or change ext broken link
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Thanks Cavallinux ( talk) 10:33, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia’s advice at WP:Make technical articles understandable is applicable to this article on heat. The article fails some of the basic elements of this advice. Immediately after the lead there is a very short section on Notation and units and then a large section titled Classical thermodynamics, containing advanced information on entropy and enthalpy, and a lot of math.
There appears to be no good reason why readers of Wikipedia who come to this article to learn a little about heat should be confronted with the concepts of entropy and enthalpy, and a lot of math, before they reach more basic concepts such as the history of the subject, and the concept of heat transfer, both of which are accomplished without resort to math.
Wikipedia’s advice says Put the least obscure parts of the article up front. That is certainly not happening with the sections on entropy and enthalpy which are not "the least obscure parts" of the subject of heat!
Relevant background is as follows. Prior to mid-2018 the information on Enthalpy and Entropy was located much lower in the article, around items 4 and 5 in the list of contents. On June 24, 2018 this information was lifted much higher in the article so that it now appears immediately after the very short section on Notation and units. No meaningful edit summary was supplied. See the diff1. Next, the sub-sections on enthalpy and entropy were reversed in position so that entropy appears first, and enthalpy appears second. No meaningful edit summary was supplied. See the diff2.
The relocation of the two sections in question is most likely to have been made on the basis of their titles rather than on the basis of their technical contents, which is advanced and full of math. Unfortunately the User who relocated these two sections is no longer active on Wikipedia.
I will remove the two sections in question from their present location and return them to the position they occupied prior to June 2018, further down the list of contents. Dolphin ( t) 12:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi!
I came across this article that discovered new information on how heat is transmitted!
unfortunately i am unable to edit this article, but would be great if someone would add the information: https://gulfnews.com/uae/environment/nyuad-researchers-shed-new-light-on-how-heat-is-transmitted-1.103297823
Thank you to all editors and have a wonderful day Indipedian1991 ( talk) 08:25, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index |
This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
I just note my change here because there is a really nasty debate above me.
Old first paragraph:
New first paragraph:
I am not an expert in thermodynamics, so any comment on my rewrite is appreciated. Pinging User:Bilorv, User:Dominic Mayers, User:Kbrose, and User:Cessaune per above. CactiStaccingCrane ( talk) 16:09, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
subjective POV blubber, and not born of the experience of teaching. He forgets that the audience here are not his students. I maintain my common sense point. There is nothing non rigorous in explaining the meaning of a quantity , called heat, in the context of the laws that are introduced. Also, I am not saying that it's a bad idea to always use the term heat in a way that is consistent with the use of the term in these laws. But, we can do all these things, without making a big deal about terminology in the lead. We can mention at some point in the article that we use the term heat only with a given meaning, if we think it can help. It's not clear to me that it will help that much, but that is not what I discuss here. I say that it's weird to make a big deal about this in the lead. It makes the subject seem superficial. Dominic Mayers ( talk) 02:55, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
There is a paragraph in the article that states: "Today's narrow definition of heat in physics contrasts with its use in common language, in some engineering disciplines, and in the historical scientific development of thermodynamics in the caloric theory. The terminology of heat in these instances may be replaced accurately with entropy." This is backed up by a citation to a textbook by Hans U. Fuchs. However, this textbook is associated with the Karlsruhe Physics Course ( de:Karlsruher Physikkurs), a somewhat controversial pedagogical program that renames some thermodynamical terms, and emphasizes the flow of entropy. I think this claim that common notion of heat can often be replaced by entropy should be backed up by mainstream sources. In case that is not possible, it should be removed. Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 06:27, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Delete or change ext broken link
to
Thanks Cavallinux ( talk) 10:33, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia’s advice at WP:Make technical articles understandable is applicable to this article on heat. The article fails some of the basic elements of this advice. Immediately after the lead there is a very short section on Notation and units and then a large section titled Classical thermodynamics, containing advanced information on entropy and enthalpy, and a lot of math.
There appears to be no good reason why readers of Wikipedia who come to this article to learn a little about heat should be confronted with the concepts of entropy and enthalpy, and a lot of math, before they reach more basic concepts such as the history of the subject, and the concept of heat transfer, both of which are accomplished without resort to math.
Wikipedia’s advice says Put the least obscure parts of the article up front. That is certainly not happening with the sections on entropy and enthalpy which are not "the least obscure parts" of the subject of heat!
Relevant background is as follows. Prior to mid-2018 the information on Enthalpy and Entropy was located much lower in the article, around items 4 and 5 in the list of contents. On June 24, 2018 this information was lifted much higher in the article so that it now appears immediately after the very short section on Notation and units. No meaningful edit summary was supplied. See the diff1. Next, the sub-sections on enthalpy and entropy were reversed in position so that entropy appears first, and enthalpy appears second. No meaningful edit summary was supplied. See the diff2.
The relocation of the two sections in question is most likely to have been made on the basis of their titles rather than on the basis of their technical contents, which is advanced and full of math. Unfortunately the User who relocated these two sections is no longer active on Wikipedia.
I will remove the two sections in question from their present location and return them to the position they occupied prior to June 2018, further down the list of contents. Dolphin ( t) 12:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi!
I came across this article that discovered new information on how heat is transmitted!
unfortunately i am unable to edit this article, but would be great if someone would add the information: https://gulfnews.com/uae/environment/nyuad-researchers-shed-new-light-on-how-heat-is-transmitted-1.103297823
Thank you to all editors and have a wonderful day Indipedian1991 ( talk) 08:25, 26 June 2024 (UTC)