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Infobox and Death section do not agree on the age of death. Any info on which is correct?-- Sgv 6618 ( talk) 12:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
In the preamble, the section, “the injury was disguised on film with the use of a special prosthetic glove, though the glove often did not go by unnoticed.” is surely pure POV? Noticed by whom, exactly? The prosthetic glove designed for and worn by Harold Lloyd was virtually indistinguishable from a real hand, and his injury was a well kept secret for much of his acting career as a result. What may be confusing the issue is that he often wore regular gloves on screen, on both hands - sometimes with dark stitching on the seams across the backs of the hand - as well as bandages around his forearms: in doing so he sought to confuse, as it were, those viewers who did know he had a disability, as this disguised both his hands, given he was almost as capable with the damaged hand as with his good one. But the regular gloves should not be confused with the prosthetic. As something of a talisman and hommage to Lloyd , Michael Crawford took to wearing gloves while performing many of his slap-stick high-risk stunts on Some Mothers Do ’Ave ’Em. Jock123 ( talk) 15:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Article has been tagged for needing sources long-term. Feel free to reinsert the below material with appropriate references. DonIago ( talk) 13:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Early life
|
---|
Lloyd was born in
Burchard,
Nebraska, to James Darsie Lloyd (1865–1947) and Elizabeth Fraser (1869–1941); Harold's paternal great-grandparents were all from
Wales. Young Harold was named for his paternal grandfather. Harold had an older brother, Gaylord (1888-1943), five years his senior. Like his younger brother, Gaylord acted in motion pictures, but his career was nowhere near as renowned as Harold's. Among other roles, he acted in 1921's "Disraeli" starring the famous George Arliss. With Harold's help, there were even efforts to turn him into a comedy star. He eventually went on to become a film executive. When Harold was a child, his parents divorced and Lloyd chose to stay with his father. Despite this, he and his brother always remained close to their mother. Harold's father was always dreaming up grand get-rich-quick schemes that ended in disasters. They eventually ended up in Omaha where Lloyd had his first acting experience in a local stock company. He attended
East High School and San Diego High School and received his stage training at the School of Dramatic Art (San Diego). In 1912, his father J. Darsie "Foxy" Lloyd was awarded the then-massive sum of $6,000 in a personal injury judgment (although this was split evenly between Lloyd and his lawyer) after being run over by an Omaha beer truck. Reportedly, on the toss of a coin ("Heads is New York or Nashville or where I decide!, tails is
San Diego"), he and Lloyd moved west.
Lloyd had acted in various Vaudeville acts in theaters since boyhood, and started acting in one-reel film comedies shortly after moving to California. He soon began working with Thomas Edison's motion picture company, and eventually formed a partnership with fellow struggling actor and director Hal Roach, who had formed his own studio in 1913. The hard-working Lloyd became the most successful of Roach's comic actors between 1915 and 1919. Davis retired from acting in 1923, the year she and Lloyd were married, and Jobyna Ralston became Lloyd's co-star. From 1915 to 1917, Lloyd and Roach created more than 60 one-reel comedies. |
Honors |
---|
==Honors==
In 1927 his was only the fourth concrete ceremony at Grauman's Chinese Theatre, preserving his handprints, footprints, and autograph, along with the outline of his famed glasses (which were actually a pair of sunglasses with the lenses removed). The ceremony took place directly in front of the Hollywood Masonic Temple, which was the meeting place of the Masonic lodge to which he belonged. Harold Lloyd was honored in 1960 for his contribution to motion pictures with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame located at 1503 Vine Street. In 1994, he was honored with his image on a United States postage stamp designed by caricaturist Al Hirschfeld. |
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That Beverly Hills had a restrictive covenant is confirmed by many sources, including the Beverly Hills Historical Society. At least three reliable sources for Lloyd's involvement in preserving the restrictions can be accessed online: Stephen Grant Meyer, As Long as They Don't Move Next Door, Rowman & Littlefield, 2001, p. 76; Amina Hassan, Loren Miller: Civil Rights Attorney and Journalist, University of Oklahoma Press, 2015, p. 132; and Nancie Clare, The Battle for Beverly Hills, St. Martin's Press, 2018, p. 195. An article titled "Harold Lloyd Heads Anti-Negro Drive" appeared on the front page of the Chicago Daily Defender on July 28, 1945; it reads: "The famous film comedian of the silver screen was reported as the prime instigator of the new Beverly Hills restrictive covenant drive. A recent letter, sent out over the name of the famous actor, called for a meeting of residents here to sign restrictive covenants. The letter, sent out through offices of the Chamber of Commerce, was disclaimed by company officials who admitted that Lloyd had been elected president recently." And there are other sources to confirm that Lloyd was a leader of the Beverly Hills C of C (e.g., Kevin Brownlow, The Parade's Gone By, p 472.
Since mid-August, I and others have been reverting the repeated removal of a paragraph in the article that deals with this. For me this is largely on procedural grounds: edit warring isn't the way to edit, and repeated invitations to discuss the matter on the talk page have been ignored. FWIW, I think the restrictive covenant drive deserves a mention in the article, but it looms rather large here and I'd favor some edits. The article shouldn't exaggerate Lloyd's role here; these covenants were unfortunately common throughout the US at the time, and Lloyd (as far as I can tell) was not one of the eight white Sugar Hill plaintiffs who sued to have their black neighbors evicted in the 1944 case that Judge Thurmond Clarke decided. Ewulp ( talk) 02:43, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
HLE1893 ( talk) 19:36, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
@ HLE1893: Your letter above dated March 9 is written on behalf of Harold Lloyd Entertainment, Inc. ("HLE"). It was then re-posted by you earlier today in its entirety on my talk page at User talk:Cbl62 as well as being re-posted last week at Talk:Harold Lloyd Estate. In your letter and re-postings thereof, HLE is demanding that Wikipedia remove content that is supported by no less than four reliable sources. This is an extraordinary request. Some might construe it as an attempt to whitewash an embarrassing episode from Mr. Lloyd's past and to use legal threats against a nonprofit educational institution and its editors in furtherance of that attempt.
In order to permit a more informed evaluation of your demands, please advise as to (i) whether any of the four reliable sources has retracted their statements, (ii) whether any retractions have been requested from these four reliable sources, and (iii) whether you will share your communications with these four reliable sources.
As I understand the matter, the four reliable sources are as follows:
Further, you state above that the referenced declarations are available for review. Please provide prompt public online access so that these statements can be evaluated.
Also, I note that a purported Lloyd estate representative (having the user name "Chatterbox1880") made legal threats in or about August 2019, but refused to answer any questions. In particular, that account stated that the allegations of Mr. Lloyd's involvement in enforcing restrictive covenants "actually has been proven to be false. LEGAL ACTION FROM THE LLOYD FAMILY TO FOLLOW". The Chatterbox1880 postings can be viewed here and here. That account was indefinitely blocked in August 2019 for violating Wikipedia policy on legal threats. See User talk:Chatterbox1880. Are you the same person as the blocked user, Chatterbox1880? Can you provide any support for Chatterbox1880's contention that the allegations have "been proven false"? In what forum were the allegations tested or "proven false? Was that determination made by a judge, jury, or in some other manner? Please clarify.
Please understand that you are making an extraordinary request that we omit material that is supported by four reliable sources. In order to evaluate your extraordinary request, we ask that you furnish the information you have offered to share as well as the information outlined above. Regards, Cbl62 ( talk) 10:12, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
was the prime instigator-- that can only be evaluated with the passage of time, with all evidence in.
References
deleting the matter in its entirety. But neither should we be saying that this or that is
disputed by his heirs-- is that based on the posts here??? If so that's totally inappropriate.
was the prime instigatorare absolutely synthetic on the Defender's part. It's almost never something that can be stated reliably at the time events are unfolding.
@ HLE1893: So did Harold Lloyd ever disavow the letter sent by the chamber of commerce that he was president of? Could you please cite a source for this disavowal? 157.52.6.39 ( talk) 03:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
I would appreciate it if someone could please cite a US legal case in which anyone was successful in suing for defamation on behalf of an individual who has been dead for almost 50 years. Quite simply, with very narrow exceptions (such as a suit started before the plaintiff's death and continued by their estate, or in some cases over an obituary published within 6 months of someone's death), there are no examples. In American law, as a general rule, the dead cannot be libelled so any attempt to bully editors on legal grounds is specious and any lawyer making such threats is acting unethically and risks being reported to his or her state's bar association. 157.52.6.39 ( talk) 03:55, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It is not up to Wikipedia editors to determine the validity of their representation– Indeed yes, because it's irrelevant. They can claim to be whoever they want to claim to, and we ignore it (except possibly we encourage them to follow COI rules – which is a detriment to them, not an advantage). All we should be doing is evaluating the reliability of the sources, taking everyone's ideas into account, and that includes HLE's, no matter who he/she claims to be. E Eng 14:59, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Do you seriously believe, on this record, that we should censor Wikipedia, striking the one sentence about what these sources have asserted
– No one's suggesting censoring anything. I've already said that I'm not yet taking a position on the content question. Engaging meaningfully on that won't be possible until you've stopped fixating on who different editors are and stopped raising strawmen about absence of retractions, absence of challenges by Lloyd himself or his heirs or his estate or his fans or his grandchildren, and so on. Please show you're ready to focus on the sources themselves by not repeating these same irrelevant stuff yet once again, pausing now and then to cry "censorship!".
E
Eng
18:51, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
The HLE letter above presents Lloyd as a man without any racist inclinations whatsoever. It's not our function to judge the accuracy of this assertion. However, racial stereotypes were prevalent, widely held and accepted during the years when Lloyd was an active film-maker. Indeed, such stereotyping was a comic device used in a number of Lloyd's films. A quick google search turned up the following:
Does the use of racial stereotypes in his films mean that Lloyd was a racist? I don't pretend to know the answer to that question. My point is this: Like racial stereotyping in films, restrictive covenants were widely popular in the first half of the 20th Century -- the latter having been viewed by many who likely did not consider themselves "racists" as a "legitimate" means of preserving property values and/or limiting racial integration. Wikipedia is not here to make judgments on a person's motives or morality. That is not Wikipedia's function. Wikipedia should, however, be free to report on the use of racial stereotypes as a comic device and on a historical person's reported involvement in promoting restrictive covenants. Cbl62 ( talk) 20:36, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Safety Last! has been criticized for its use of "a number of ugly racial, ethnic, and sexual stereotypes, included for cheap laughs"
Safety Last! is a near-perfect example of silent-era Hollywood Unfortunately, this means that, like other works from the period, the film also includes a number of ugly racial, ethnic, and sexual stereotypes, included for cheap laughs. As such, the film is a superb example of both the artistic wealth and moral poverty of early cinema.
stereotypically Jewish pawnshop owner; but here's the review's full text:
True to its era's reliance on ethnic stereotypes, the film must be forgiven a couple of minor characters, notably the easily panicked African-American store employee and a Jewish pawnshop owner who literally wrings his hands in anticipation when Harold comes calling.
so offensive that the Chinese government (pre-Communist) demanded a formal apology from Lloyd and banned the filmomits the key feature of that incident, which the blogpost also omits but the source it cites (Silent Cinema and the Politics of Space, Bean ed., p192) makes clear:
Soon, a protest that had started as a local, intellectual-led event escalated into a concerted political campaign supported not only by social groups of different political persuasions, but also by the ruling Nationalist government ... The outcry against Welcome Danger provided an ideal opportunity for the government to strengthen its control (via film censorship, for instance) of China’s extraterrestrial regions, including Shanghai’s International Settlement and French Concession. To support the protest, the Nationalist government’s Film Censorship Committee in Shanghai ordered that newspapers stop carrying the two theaters’ advertisements [etc etc]
The HLE letter above presents Lloyd as a man without any racist inclinations whatsoever. It's not our function to judge the accuracy of this assertion– then you immediately went on to judge the accuracy of the assertion.
the notion, advanced by HLE, that Lloyd was some sort of saintso, again, you're just wasting everyone's time with these thousands of words. Plus you misrepresent and misuse sources.
If a film or filmmaker of the period didn't rely on such stuff, THAT would be worth mentioning in the article. But then he slept with underage girls, so no one's perfect. As for the rest, I give up. It's hopeless. E Eng 04:02, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
"Like others of his generation, he was not immune from the mindset of his day" - which is not a reason not to mention either the restrictive covenants lobbied for by the Beverly Hills Chamber of Commerce while he was president or the stereotypical and/or derogatory portrayal of minorities in some of his films, no more than it's a reason not to mention in an articles on Thomas Jefferson or George Washington that they were slaveholders. We would not say such content should be removed because slaveholding was typical of the mindset of Jefferson's and Washington's times. And as has been mentioned, there are a number of filmmakers who did not engage in such practices, Chaplin has been mentioned and with the possible exception of Pardon Us which, though it has the questionable plotline of two donning blackface of a sort in order to hide during a prison manhunt, doesn't actually include derogatory depictions of Black people or have them imitate anti-Black stereotypes, Laurel & Hardy are another example. 157.52.6.39 ( talk) 16:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
I'd like to make note that Harold has two stars on the Walk of Fame. One is mentioned in the article as being on Vine Street, but he has another star in front of the Hollywood Masonic Temple (address: 6840 Hollywood Blvd) which I was able to spot back in February. I did look around at the temple's page; it does say there was a 1969 ceremony for that star, but is there any way someone can mention the location of that one? The only real reference I saw is from the LA Times. Unless there's another linkable source floating around there somewhere... Mandoli ( talk) 19:10, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
The article mentions "His mother, Gladys Lloyd Cassell (wife of Edward G. Robinson)....", but she (Gladys Lloyd Cassell Robinson) was born in 1895 (to Harold Lloyd's 1893). Definitely not Harold's mother, and I think they may not be related at all.
Here is her NYT obit: https://www.nytimes.com/1971/06/09/archives/gladys-l-robinson-actors-ex-wife-75.html 2603:7080:B400:2894:606A:64F8:84BE:D7E5 ( talk) 22:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
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Infobox and Death section do not agree on the age of death. Any info on which is correct?-- Sgv 6618 ( talk) 12:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
In the preamble, the section, “the injury was disguised on film with the use of a special prosthetic glove, though the glove often did not go by unnoticed.” is surely pure POV? Noticed by whom, exactly? The prosthetic glove designed for and worn by Harold Lloyd was virtually indistinguishable from a real hand, and his injury was a well kept secret for much of his acting career as a result. What may be confusing the issue is that he often wore regular gloves on screen, on both hands - sometimes with dark stitching on the seams across the backs of the hand - as well as bandages around his forearms: in doing so he sought to confuse, as it were, those viewers who did know he had a disability, as this disguised both his hands, given he was almost as capable with the damaged hand as with his good one. But the regular gloves should not be confused with the prosthetic. As something of a talisman and hommage to Lloyd , Michael Crawford took to wearing gloves while performing many of his slap-stick high-risk stunts on Some Mothers Do ’Ave ’Em. Jock123 ( talk) 15:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Article has been tagged for needing sources long-term. Feel free to reinsert the below material with appropriate references. DonIago ( talk) 13:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Early life
|
---|
Lloyd was born in
Burchard,
Nebraska, to James Darsie Lloyd (1865–1947) and Elizabeth Fraser (1869–1941); Harold's paternal great-grandparents were all from
Wales. Young Harold was named for his paternal grandfather. Harold had an older brother, Gaylord (1888-1943), five years his senior. Like his younger brother, Gaylord acted in motion pictures, but his career was nowhere near as renowned as Harold's. Among other roles, he acted in 1921's "Disraeli" starring the famous George Arliss. With Harold's help, there were even efforts to turn him into a comedy star. He eventually went on to become a film executive. When Harold was a child, his parents divorced and Lloyd chose to stay with his father. Despite this, he and his brother always remained close to their mother. Harold's father was always dreaming up grand get-rich-quick schemes that ended in disasters. They eventually ended up in Omaha where Lloyd had his first acting experience in a local stock company. He attended
East High School and San Diego High School and received his stage training at the School of Dramatic Art (San Diego). In 1912, his father J. Darsie "Foxy" Lloyd was awarded the then-massive sum of $6,000 in a personal injury judgment (although this was split evenly between Lloyd and his lawyer) after being run over by an Omaha beer truck. Reportedly, on the toss of a coin ("Heads is New York or Nashville or where I decide!, tails is
San Diego"), he and Lloyd moved west.
Lloyd had acted in various Vaudeville acts in theaters since boyhood, and started acting in one-reel film comedies shortly after moving to California. He soon began working with Thomas Edison's motion picture company, and eventually formed a partnership with fellow struggling actor and director Hal Roach, who had formed his own studio in 1913. The hard-working Lloyd became the most successful of Roach's comic actors between 1915 and 1919. Davis retired from acting in 1923, the year she and Lloyd were married, and Jobyna Ralston became Lloyd's co-star. From 1915 to 1917, Lloyd and Roach created more than 60 one-reel comedies. |
Honors |
---|
==Honors==
In 1927 his was only the fourth concrete ceremony at Grauman's Chinese Theatre, preserving his handprints, footprints, and autograph, along with the outline of his famed glasses (which were actually a pair of sunglasses with the lenses removed). The ceremony took place directly in front of the Hollywood Masonic Temple, which was the meeting place of the Masonic lodge to which he belonged. Harold Lloyd was honored in 1960 for his contribution to motion pictures with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame located at 1503 Vine Street. In 1994, he was honored with his image on a United States postage stamp designed by caricaturist Al Hirschfeld. |
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That Beverly Hills had a restrictive covenant is confirmed by many sources, including the Beverly Hills Historical Society. At least three reliable sources for Lloyd's involvement in preserving the restrictions can be accessed online: Stephen Grant Meyer, As Long as They Don't Move Next Door, Rowman & Littlefield, 2001, p. 76; Amina Hassan, Loren Miller: Civil Rights Attorney and Journalist, University of Oklahoma Press, 2015, p. 132; and Nancie Clare, The Battle for Beverly Hills, St. Martin's Press, 2018, p. 195. An article titled "Harold Lloyd Heads Anti-Negro Drive" appeared on the front page of the Chicago Daily Defender on July 28, 1945; it reads: "The famous film comedian of the silver screen was reported as the prime instigator of the new Beverly Hills restrictive covenant drive. A recent letter, sent out over the name of the famous actor, called for a meeting of residents here to sign restrictive covenants. The letter, sent out through offices of the Chamber of Commerce, was disclaimed by company officials who admitted that Lloyd had been elected president recently." And there are other sources to confirm that Lloyd was a leader of the Beverly Hills C of C (e.g., Kevin Brownlow, The Parade's Gone By, p 472.
Since mid-August, I and others have been reverting the repeated removal of a paragraph in the article that deals with this. For me this is largely on procedural grounds: edit warring isn't the way to edit, and repeated invitations to discuss the matter on the talk page have been ignored. FWIW, I think the restrictive covenant drive deserves a mention in the article, but it looms rather large here and I'd favor some edits. The article shouldn't exaggerate Lloyd's role here; these covenants were unfortunately common throughout the US at the time, and Lloyd (as far as I can tell) was not one of the eight white Sugar Hill plaintiffs who sued to have their black neighbors evicted in the 1944 case that Judge Thurmond Clarke decided. Ewulp ( talk) 02:43, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
HLE1893 ( talk) 19:36, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
@ HLE1893: Your letter above dated March 9 is written on behalf of Harold Lloyd Entertainment, Inc. ("HLE"). It was then re-posted by you earlier today in its entirety on my talk page at User talk:Cbl62 as well as being re-posted last week at Talk:Harold Lloyd Estate. In your letter and re-postings thereof, HLE is demanding that Wikipedia remove content that is supported by no less than four reliable sources. This is an extraordinary request. Some might construe it as an attempt to whitewash an embarrassing episode from Mr. Lloyd's past and to use legal threats against a nonprofit educational institution and its editors in furtherance of that attempt.
In order to permit a more informed evaluation of your demands, please advise as to (i) whether any of the four reliable sources has retracted their statements, (ii) whether any retractions have been requested from these four reliable sources, and (iii) whether you will share your communications with these four reliable sources.
As I understand the matter, the four reliable sources are as follows:
Further, you state above that the referenced declarations are available for review. Please provide prompt public online access so that these statements can be evaluated.
Also, I note that a purported Lloyd estate representative (having the user name "Chatterbox1880") made legal threats in or about August 2019, but refused to answer any questions. In particular, that account stated that the allegations of Mr. Lloyd's involvement in enforcing restrictive covenants "actually has been proven to be false. LEGAL ACTION FROM THE LLOYD FAMILY TO FOLLOW". The Chatterbox1880 postings can be viewed here and here. That account was indefinitely blocked in August 2019 for violating Wikipedia policy on legal threats. See User talk:Chatterbox1880. Are you the same person as the blocked user, Chatterbox1880? Can you provide any support for Chatterbox1880's contention that the allegations have "been proven false"? In what forum were the allegations tested or "proven false? Was that determination made by a judge, jury, or in some other manner? Please clarify.
Please understand that you are making an extraordinary request that we omit material that is supported by four reliable sources. In order to evaluate your extraordinary request, we ask that you furnish the information you have offered to share as well as the information outlined above. Regards, Cbl62 ( talk) 10:12, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
was the prime instigator-- that can only be evaluated with the passage of time, with all evidence in.
References
deleting the matter in its entirety. But neither should we be saying that this or that is
disputed by his heirs-- is that based on the posts here??? If so that's totally inappropriate.
was the prime instigatorare absolutely synthetic on the Defender's part. It's almost never something that can be stated reliably at the time events are unfolding.
@ HLE1893: So did Harold Lloyd ever disavow the letter sent by the chamber of commerce that he was president of? Could you please cite a source for this disavowal? 157.52.6.39 ( talk) 03:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
I would appreciate it if someone could please cite a US legal case in which anyone was successful in suing for defamation on behalf of an individual who has been dead for almost 50 years. Quite simply, with very narrow exceptions (such as a suit started before the plaintiff's death and continued by their estate, or in some cases over an obituary published within 6 months of someone's death), there are no examples. In American law, as a general rule, the dead cannot be libelled so any attempt to bully editors on legal grounds is specious and any lawyer making such threats is acting unethically and risks being reported to his or her state's bar association. 157.52.6.39 ( talk) 03:55, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It is not up to Wikipedia editors to determine the validity of their representation– Indeed yes, because it's irrelevant. They can claim to be whoever they want to claim to, and we ignore it (except possibly we encourage them to follow COI rules – which is a detriment to them, not an advantage). All we should be doing is evaluating the reliability of the sources, taking everyone's ideas into account, and that includes HLE's, no matter who he/she claims to be. E Eng 14:59, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Do you seriously believe, on this record, that we should censor Wikipedia, striking the one sentence about what these sources have asserted
– No one's suggesting censoring anything. I've already said that I'm not yet taking a position on the content question. Engaging meaningfully on that won't be possible until you've stopped fixating on who different editors are and stopped raising strawmen about absence of retractions, absence of challenges by Lloyd himself or his heirs or his estate or his fans or his grandchildren, and so on. Please show you're ready to focus on the sources themselves by not repeating these same irrelevant stuff yet once again, pausing now and then to cry "censorship!".
E
Eng
18:51, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
The HLE letter above presents Lloyd as a man without any racist inclinations whatsoever. It's not our function to judge the accuracy of this assertion. However, racial stereotypes were prevalent, widely held and accepted during the years when Lloyd was an active film-maker. Indeed, such stereotyping was a comic device used in a number of Lloyd's films. A quick google search turned up the following:
Does the use of racial stereotypes in his films mean that Lloyd was a racist? I don't pretend to know the answer to that question. My point is this: Like racial stereotyping in films, restrictive covenants were widely popular in the first half of the 20th Century -- the latter having been viewed by many who likely did not consider themselves "racists" as a "legitimate" means of preserving property values and/or limiting racial integration. Wikipedia is not here to make judgments on a person's motives or morality. That is not Wikipedia's function. Wikipedia should, however, be free to report on the use of racial stereotypes as a comic device and on a historical person's reported involvement in promoting restrictive covenants. Cbl62 ( talk) 20:36, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Safety Last! has been criticized for its use of "a number of ugly racial, ethnic, and sexual stereotypes, included for cheap laughs"
Safety Last! is a near-perfect example of silent-era Hollywood Unfortunately, this means that, like other works from the period, the film also includes a number of ugly racial, ethnic, and sexual stereotypes, included for cheap laughs. As such, the film is a superb example of both the artistic wealth and moral poverty of early cinema.
stereotypically Jewish pawnshop owner; but here's the review's full text:
True to its era's reliance on ethnic stereotypes, the film must be forgiven a couple of minor characters, notably the easily panicked African-American store employee and a Jewish pawnshop owner who literally wrings his hands in anticipation when Harold comes calling.
so offensive that the Chinese government (pre-Communist) demanded a formal apology from Lloyd and banned the filmomits the key feature of that incident, which the blogpost also omits but the source it cites (Silent Cinema and the Politics of Space, Bean ed., p192) makes clear:
Soon, a protest that had started as a local, intellectual-led event escalated into a concerted political campaign supported not only by social groups of different political persuasions, but also by the ruling Nationalist government ... The outcry against Welcome Danger provided an ideal opportunity for the government to strengthen its control (via film censorship, for instance) of China’s extraterrestrial regions, including Shanghai’s International Settlement and French Concession. To support the protest, the Nationalist government’s Film Censorship Committee in Shanghai ordered that newspapers stop carrying the two theaters’ advertisements [etc etc]
The HLE letter above presents Lloyd as a man without any racist inclinations whatsoever. It's not our function to judge the accuracy of this assertion– then you immediately went on to judge the accuracy of the assertion.
the notion, advanced by HLE, that Lloyd was some sort of saintso, again, you're just wasting everyone's time with these thousands of words. Plus you misrepresent and misuse sources.
If a film or filmmaker of the period didn't rely on such stuff, THAT would be worth mentioning in the article. But then he slept with underage girls, so no one's perfect. As for the rest, I give up. It's hopeless. E Eng 04:02, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
"Like others of his generation, he was not immune from the mindset of his day" - which is not a reason not to mention either the restrictive covenants lobbied for by the Beverly Hills Chamber of Commerce while he was president or the stereotypical and/or derogatory portrayal of minorities in some of his films, no more than it's a reason not to mention in an articles on Thomas Jefferson or George Washington that they were slaveholders. We would not say such content should be removed because slaveholding was typical of the mindset of Jefferson's and Washington's times. And as has been mentioned, there are a number of filmmakers who did not engage in such practices, Chaplin has been mentioned and with the possible exception of Pardon Us which, though it has the questionable plotline of two donning blackface of a sort in order to hide during a prison manhunt, doesn't actually include derogatory depictions of Black people or have them imitate anti-Black stereotypes, Laurel & Hardy are another example. 157.52.6.39 ( talk) 16:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
I'd like to make note that Harold has two stars on the Walk of Fame. One is mentioned in the article as being on Vine Street, but he has another star in front of the Hollywood Masonic Temple (address: 6840 Hollywood Blvd) which I was able to spot back in February. I did look around at the temple's page; it does say there was a 1969 ceremony for that star, but is there any way someone can mention the location of that one? The only real reference I saw is from the LA Times. Unless there's another linkable source floating around there somewhere... Mandoli ( talk) 19:10, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
The article mentions "His mother, Gladys Lloyd Cassell (wife of Edward G. Robinson)....", but she (Gladys Lloyd Cassell Robinson) was born in 1895 (to Harold Lloyd's 1893). Definitely not Harold's mother, and I think they may not be related at all.
Here is her NYT obit: https://www.nytimes.com/1971/06/09/archives/gladys-l-robinson-actors-ex-wife-75.html 2603:7080:B400:2894:606A:64F8:84BE:D7E5 ( talk) 22:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)