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-I am completely confused - usually when someone wants to make a new article with a name that already exsists, they create a new article, why was this one re-written instead of a separate page being give to "Gwen Stefani's Harajuku Girls"? The Japanese do not call themselves "Harajuku Girls" but if you search the web you will find 1000's of hits and pictures of girls in Harajuku described as "Harajuku Girls" - it is a valid term in Western culture.Their biggest fan is Cassidy Gazaway. The original Harajuku article has also really gone down the drain, originally it was about Harajuku the area and the overall culture, while this article was specifically about the western phenomen of "Harajuku Girls" - people are going to search for this term to find more information about the girl's Gwen admires, not her side kicks. I agree with making them into separate pages, this article was hi-jacked. If it was found to be inappropriate, it should have been nominated for DELETION not deleted and changed to a different subject! Denaar 03:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Just for the record, Second Life is using "Harajuku Girl" as a descriptive term for one of their default avatar choices. They don't seem to be referring to the dancers themselves, but the western term for a particular japanese-influenced style. Neither existing wikipedia page - the one called Harajuku or this one - was particularly helpful to me as I tried to figure out exactly what subculture they were referring to. However, I hesitate to jump into this fight with both feet since there seems to be disagreement about how this should be handled. Subversified 17:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the "Controversy" thing for now because, despite two cited articles, I'm not really seeing anything controversial here. They're backup dancers, that's it. I'm sort of wondering how far I'd have to have delved into Gwen Stefani, and rock/pop in general, to run into any suggestion that having a bunch of pretty Japanese girls in school uniforms was controversial in any way. -- Tony Sidaway 23:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Removed the term "racism" from the lead, a serious but unsourced accusation. Also there are "some" commentators not "many," changed that too. 24.203.45.242 12:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I created an archive. Talk:Harajuku Girls/Archive 1
I tried to leave any active discussions.
Most of it details the discussion about article content/title and the removal of Harajuku and Gothic Lolita related content from the page to focus on the dance entourage.
I have also removed wikiproject tags. This is not a Japan-related or Fashion-related article anymore.-- ZayZayEM 14:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
how about nearly 2000 matches for the term "原宿の女の子" when searching google.jp ? and believe it or not, the majority did not refer to gwen stefani. I have no issue with this page pointing towards the dance group, but to say the term isnt used in Japan is totally wrong.
read items such as this http://www.web-across.com/observe/d6eo3n000001x8f8.html to find someone Japanese using the term in a manner that has nothing to do with a dance group. Sennen goroshi 17:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
*unindent* I've modified it so it is not the overtly aggressive "no term". This isn't really substantiated. However a few of the 'ハラジュクガール' hits I looked at seemed to be directly about Gwen Stefani's album. Many were blogs, that like this one ( English trans) which says "でも原宿の女の子達はグウェンの事を知りません"
Which to me is saying "I really don't know what this "Harajuku girl" thing of Gwen's is on about". But my Japanese is pretty poor. (But, Harajuku girl, Gwen's thing, I don't know of)-- ZayZayEM 07:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Gwen Stefani is from California, which despite bombardment by Japan by balloon (!) in World War II has never been part of Japan. Her native language is English, not Japanese.
In the light of this, I find it utterly incomprehensible that the following statement has found its way into the lead section of this article about a group of Japanese girls hired by an English-speaking woman to accompany her English-speaking stage act.
It just doesn't make any sense. The Japanese language is not obliged to have an equivalent phrase for any and every term used by English-speaking people about Japan or Japanese culture. -- Tony Sidaway 08:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm removing this from the lead for now because of concerns about balance.
The link is out of date, and should be updated to this:
By way of support for the "criticism" statement, we've only got two statements, and no indication that those statements were particularly influential. One was by Margaret Cho in Blender Magazine (our article on that magazine sadly also shows signs of giving too much weight to negative commentary, but that is unrelated to this issue). The other was by Mihi Ahn in Salon.
Whilst the criticism is well-informed and significant, I question whether it is of such magnitude as to merit attention in the lead.
I've already criticised the long paragraph I'm removing on the grounds that it is a statement of something completely unsurprising: that not all English-language references to Japanese culture are direct one-to-one translations of Japenese terms. There are many English language terms that borrow Japanese words but do not have direct Japanese equivalents, and vice versa. -- Tony Sidaway 08:38, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the statement was added to explain that "Harajuku Girls" are not a unified sub-culture. Harajuku is just a shopping district where the streets were closed to traffic (and then opened again). Different cultures have been closly associated with the area - but there isn't a difinitive "Harajuku Girl" but rather "Girls who happen to be in Harajuku". It is especially interesting to me that the height of the "Harajuku street style" was during the 90s when the streets were closed to traffic, it was already in decline by the time Stefani published her album. (See the book Fruits published by Phaidon Press, it was a reference on this page at one time - it mentioned the decline of Harajuku street fashion in 2001). Mostly what is published in American Magazines now as "Harajuku street style" is the Gothic Lolita subculture or cosplayers, and not street fashion at all. The Harajuku article really isn't up to par, but there aren't many resources outside of fan pages for it. Denaar 19:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors=
(
help)
The criticism cited in this article of these four groovy babes, or of Stefani's use of them, strikes me as underinformed or silly or both. Still, that's just my opinion. I'd love to point out that the geisha of today don't look anything like these four, but I don't do so, for any of several reasons. And these seemed reasons to delete this well intended addition. However, I added a link to Japanese street fashion, for those who'd care to look it up. In general I'm not in favor of linking from quotations (indeed, I think the MoS rules against it), but here it seems harmless. -- Hoary ( talk) 12:09, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
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-I am completely confused - usually when someone wants to make a new article with a name that already exsists, they create a new article, why was this one re-written instead of a separate page being give to "Gwen Stefani's Harajuku Girls"? The Japanese do not call themselves "Harajuku Girls" but if you search the web you will find 1000's of hits and pictures of girls in Harajuku described as "Harajuku Girls" - it is a valid term in Western culture.Their biggest fan is Cassidy Gazaway. The original Harajuku article has also really gone down the drain, originally it was about Harajuku the area and the overall culture, while this article was specifically about the western phenomen of "Harajuku Girls" - people are going to search for this term to find more information about the girl's Gwen admires, not her side kicks. I agree with making them into separate pages, this article was hi-jacked. If it was found to be inappropriate, it should have been nominated for DELETION not deleted and changed to a different subject! Denaar 03:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Just for the record, Second Life is using "Harajuku Girl" as a descriptive term for one of their default avatar choices. They don't seem to be referring to the dancers themselves, but the western term for a particular japanese-influenced style. Neither existing wikipedia page - the one called Harajuku or this one - was particularly helpful to me as I tried to figure out exactly what subculture they were referring to. However, I hesitate to jump into this fight with both feet since there seems to be disagreement about how this should be handled. Subversified 17:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the "Controversy" thing for now because, despite two cited articles, I'm not really seeing anything controversial here. They're backup dancers, that's it. I'm sort of wondering how far I'd have to have delved into Gwen Stefani, and rock/pop in general, to run into any suggestion that having a bunch of pretty Japanese girls in school uniforms was controversial in any way. -- Tony Sidaway 23:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Removed the term "racism" from the lead, a serious but unsourced accusation. Also there are "some" commentators not "many," changed that too. 24.203.45.242 12:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I created an archive. Talk:Harajuku Girls/Archive 1
I tried to leave any active discussions.
Most of it details the discussion about article content/title and the removal of Harajuku and Gothic Lolita related content from the page to focus on the dance entourage.
I have also removed wikiproject tags. This is not a Japan-related or Fashion-related article anymore.-- ZayZayEM 14:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
how about nearly 2000 matches for the term "原宿の女の子" when searching google.jp ? and believe it or not, the majority did not refer to gwen stefani. I have no issue with this page pointing towards the dance group, but to say the term isnt used in Japan is totally wrong.
read items such as this http://www.web-across.com/observe/d6eo3n000001x8f8.html to find someone Japanese using the term in a manner that has nothing to do with a dance group. Sennen goroshi 17:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
*unindent* I've modified it so it is not the overtly aggressive "no term". This isn't really substantiated. However a few of the 'ハラジュクガール' hits I looked at seemed to be directly about Gwen Stefani's album. Many were blogs, that like this one ( English trans) which says "でも原宿の女の子達はグウェンの事を知りません"
Which to me is saying "I really don't know what this "Harajuku girl" thing of Gwen's is on about". But my Japanese is pretty poor. (But, Harajuku girl, Gwen's thing, I don't know of)-- ZayZayEM 07:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Gwen Stefani is from California, which despite bombardment by Japan by balloon (!) in World War II has never been part of Japan. Her native language is English, not Japanese.
In the light of this, I find it utterly incomprehensible that the following statement has found its way into the lead section of this article about a group of Japanese girls hired by an English-speaking woman to accompany her English-speaking stage act.
It just doesn't make any sense. The Japanese language is not obliged to have an equivalent phrase for any and every term used by English-speaking people about Japan or Japanese culture. -- Tony Sidaway 08:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm removing this from the lead for now because of concerns about balance.
The link is out of date, and should be updated to this:
By way of support for the "criticism" statement, we've only got two statements, and no indication that those statements were particularly influential. One was by Margaret Cho in Blender Magazine (our article on that magazine sadly also shows signs of giving too much weight to negative commentary, but that is unrelated to this issue). The other was by Mihi Ahn in Salon.
Whilst the criticism is well-informed and significant, I question whether it is of such magnitude as to merit attention in the lead.
I've already criticised the long paragraph I'm removing on the grounds that it is a statement of something completely unsurprising: that not all English-language references to Japanese culture are direct one-to-one translations of Japenese terms. There are many English language terms that borrow Japanese words but do not have direct Japanese equivalents, and vice versa. -- Tony Sidaway 08:38, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the statement was added to explain that "Harajuku Girls" are not a unified sub-culture. Harajuku is just a shopping district where the streets were closed to traffic (and then opened again). Different cultures have been closly associated with the area - but there isn't a difinitive "Harajuku Girl" but rather "Girls who happen to be in Harajuku". It is especially interesting to me that the height of the "Harajuku street style" was during the 90s when the streets were closed to traffic, it was already in decline by the time Stefani published her album. (See the book Fruits published by Phaidon Press, it was a reference on this page at one time - it mentioned the decline of Harajuku street fashion in 2001). Mostly what is published in American Magazines now as "Harajuku street style" is the Gothic Lolita subculture or cosplayers, and not street fashion at all. The Harajuku article really isn't up to par, but there aren't many resources outside of fan pages for it. Denaar 19:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors=
(
help)
The criticism cited in this article of these four groovy babes, or of Stefani's use of them, strikes me as underinformed or silly or both. Still, that's just my opinion. I'd love to point out that the geisha of today don't look anything like these four, but I don't do so, for any of several reasons. And these seemed reasons to delete this well intended addition. However, I added a link to Japanese street fashion, for those who'd care to look it up. In general I'm not in favor of linking from quotations (indeed, I think the MoS rules against it), but here it seems harmless. -- Hoary ( talk) 12:09, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on Harajuku Girls. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:16, 30 October 2017 (UTC)