![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 9 |
Last night this section was archived by the archiving bot. But as the discussion is not ended I am linking to it. As in my opinion the issue has not been adequately addressed. -- PBS ( talk) 10:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
From the history of the article:
MF why did you revert my edit? -- PBS ( talk) 06:54, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
The Appendix sections were changed from one close to the standard format as used in several guidelines to a non-standard format. For the reasons I have already given I think this article shoudl be modified to use the standard format for the appendix sections.
From the history of the article:
Are you suggesting that we should alter the other articles in the area to match the changes I am proposing? Why do the other articles have to have an effect on this one? -- PBS ( talk) 10:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
PoD you mention WP:FNNR part are you indicating justifies the current layout? -- PBS ( talk) 07:41, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Last night this section was archived by the archiving bot. But as the discussion is not ended I am linking to it. -- PBS ( talk) 10:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
PoD how is "explosives" more accurate than "barrels of gunpowder"? -- PBS (talk) 22:01, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
PoD you seem to have reverted the to your preferred version of the text without any explanation on the talk page. -- PBS ( talk) 10:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Since when did the links in the archive box point to the Gunpowder Plot archives? I could swear that earlier today, I was able to click through to the Guy Fawkes Night archive. Parrot of Doom 15:01, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Checking Special:WhatLinksHere, I found 3 correctly named archive pages for this talk page: Talk:Guy Fawkes Night/Archive 1 (up through last October), Talk:Guy Fawkes Night/Archive 3 (November to March) and Talk:Guy Fawkes Night/Archive 4 (since March). Cluebot's [ [1]] link on this talk page seems to be unaware of these pages. Cluebot was still set up to archive to archive pages of Talk:Gunpowder Plot; I've just changed it (I think) to archive to pages in the "Talk:Guy Fawkes Night/Archives/x" format, where x is a number, per Sandy's request. - Dank ( push to talk) 02:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
As I said at the FAC discussion, I'm depositing here the sources I found relating to Guy Fawkes Night in Australia.
Hopefully those will be of some use, either here or at Bonfire Night. Carcharoth ( talk) 01:36, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
I notice that Nikkimaria has now begun to move text from this article to Bonfire Night, which until recently was a disambiguation page. It still has that character and is not a page specific to the 5 November event. I do not know whether her motivation is to take another step towards turning this article into the History of Guy Fawkes Night, she may wish to comment, but I disagree with any further attempt to limit the article's scope, especially while it is in the FA assessment process. Parrot of Doom has said elsewhere that he supports including material here on the contemporary event, subject to its being reliably sourced, so it would be helpful to have his views. What are the views of others on this migration of text to the non-specific (or disambiguation) page? Moonraker2 ( talk) 08:42, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Johnbod ( talk) 16:57, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Claims that Guy Fawkes Night was a Protestant replacement for older customs like Samhain are disputed, although another old celebration, Halloween, has lately increased in popularity, and according to some writers, may threaten the continued observance of 5 November.
I placed a cite request on this, and the parts I bolded i marked as weasle words. This was reverted per WP: LEAD. however no specific reasoning for that revert is given and in that policy, more specifically in the sub section of that policy WP:LEADCITE it clearly says "there is not, however, an exception to citation requirements specific to leads.". I see that there is a citation later in the article which supports some of this, specifically this part " David Underdown, writing in his 1987 work Revel, Riot, and Rebellion, viewed Gunpowder Treason Day as a replacement for Hallowe'en: "just as the early church had taken over many of the pagan feasts, so did Protestants acquire their own rituals, adapting older forms or providing substitutes for them". which is cited by Underdown 1987, p. 70. but this doesnt say Samhain, it says halloween. the part I'm disputing about samhain is mentioned in the body of the article and it is not cited down there either. specifically this sentence Historians have often suggested that Guy Fawkes Day served as a Protestant replacement for the ancient Celtic and Nordic festivals of Samhain, pagan events that the church absorbed and transformed into All Hallow's Eve and All Souls' Day. In The Golden Bough, the Scottish anthropologist James George Frazer suggested that Guy Fawkes Day exemplifies "the recrudescence of old customs in modern shapes". this is not cited. the only cited part is underdown and thats about halloween not samhain. Smitty1337 ( talk) 05:53, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Result: An explanatory footnote should be added.
The discussion was evenly split in terms of numbers, with three editors supporting the addition of a footnote and three indicating opposition. One oppose was on the grounds that "It's commonplace for historians to align dates with the modern calendar without comment." I don't believe this is correct. In any case, it appears to misunderstand the situation, which doesn't involve aligning a date with the modern calendar, but instead leaving it in the Old Style (a point which was made to the editor). Another user objected that, since the article doesn't mention anything about William being involved in religious disputes, the existence of the religious disputes was not a reason for a footnote. This only addresses part of the support argument. The third oppose was on the opposite basis to the first - that Julian dates are not normally converted, and so no clarification is needed. However, this is clearly not true in the case of William, because his dob is commonly given in sources as 14 November. So, each of the reasons for opposing has a flaw.
On the other hand, there are two support votes with which I am unable to find fault, plus one "per suchabody" vote.
It seems fairly obvious that stating William's birth date as 4 November, a date which is different from the date contained in many sources, has potential for causing confusion and misunderstanding. So some clarification would be a good idea. The only opinion in the RfC as to the form that should take was in favour of a footnote.
The article gives the birth date of William III of England thus: "William's birthday fell on 4 November..." Considering that William was born in the Netherlands where the Gregorian calendar was in force, but later became King of England (among other places), where the Julian calendar was in force, is it ambiguous to state the birthdate without providing an explanatory note about which calendar the date is stated in? Jc3s5h ( talk) 18:59, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Support info in footnote:
WP:JG says Dates of events in countries using the Gregorian calendar at that time are given in the Gregorian calendar. This includes some of the Continent of Europe from 1582, the British Empire from 14 September 1752, and Russia from 14 February 1918 (see Gregorian calendar)
.
In this case there are two countries involved:
So IMO an explanatory footnote would not be out of place. I would not support an in-text explanation, because in my view it would break up the flow of the article.
WP:JG also says If there is a need to mention Old or New Style dates in an article (as in the Glorious Revolution), a footnote should be provided on the first usage, stating whether the New Style refers to a start of year adjustment or to the Gregorian calendar (it can mean either)
and the footnote to
Glorious Revolution says In this article "New Style" means the start of year is adjusted to 1 January. Events on the European mainland are usually given using the Gregorian calendar, while events in Great Britain and Ireland are usually given using the Julian calendar with the year adjusted to 1 January. Dates with no explicit Julian or Gregorian postscript will be using the same calendar as the last date with an explicit postscript.
so in my view that supports the use of a similar footnote here.
HTH.
Balaenoptera musculus (
talk)
12:18, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
I consider it ambiguous to fail to state which calendar a person's birthdate is given in, when the person was born in a jurisdiction that observed one calendar but was most famous for his activities in a different jurisdiction. This is particularly troublesome when the person was involved in a religious dispute, where the persons on one side of the dispute observed a different calendar than the persons on the other side of the dispute. Jc3s5h ( talk) 19:04, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
What was the date of birth registered in the births records in his parish at the time? Past dates were never revised when the calendar was changed, they were inviolable. If his birth was recorded as 4 November in either the Gregorian or the Julian on the day, it remains the same in either even if somebody in another country simultaneously recorded his birth under a different date the 4 Nov would stand. However, the calendar in use would be of interest to anybody studying his horoscope because the stars would be in a different alignment, and the ages of everybody who lived through the calendar change was ten days short because it is calculated off the dates; this upset some people at the time who thought that they were to die on a pre-destined calendar date and they were being short-changed ten or eleven days, so by all means note which it was as a footnote. E x nihil ( talk) 14:41, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
My recent improvements to the citation templates in this article were reverted in this edit claiming that they were "arbitrary citation changes based on personal preference". Please allow me to explain each edit further:
|date=October to December 1892
to |date=October–December 1892
to remove the article from
Category:CS1 errors: dates per
WP:DATERANGE.I hope these explanations are better than what I provided in the edit summaries, and that you'll consider restoring some or all of these changes. Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 03:15, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
This article is in dire need of an infobox. It goes to show that Corbett OWNS this article and that Cassianto stands by with his pitchfork when Corbett is not available. I'm surprised at an admin (Bencherlite) getting involved and going against community consensus. Millions of articles have a infobox and THAT is a consensus. 195.89.48.217 ( talk) 15:11, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
An infobox should be used to allow a casual reader to gain facts without having to read the boring text. "Your" article should have one. This needs an infobox!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.89.48.217 ( talk) 15:27, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Guy Fawkes Night | |
---|---|
![]() Festivities in Windsor Castle by Paul Sandby, c. 1776 | |
Observed by | United Kingdom |
Significance | Commemoration of the failure of the Gunpowder Plot |
Celebrations | Bonfires, Fireworks |
Date | 5 November |
Next time | 5 November 2024 |
Frequency | annual |
Nothing to see. Drmies ( talk) 02:44, 2 November 2014 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Forgive me as I don't understand, but why isn't the hacker group Anonymous' recent adoption of GFN, in not just the date, but some of the ideas behind the GFN as well, seen as not relevant to this article? It seems particularly topical and timely here. Is there some particular format I'm not aware of that this content should be in? Buddy23Lee ( talk) 00:21, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Alright, well clearly no one is going to explain to me why this article can't reference these citations, other than, well, it just can't. I don't have any agenda in "promoting" this or any group. I was attempting to write the content as neutral as possible and I would welcome a re-writing by any other editor. The idea of making a separate article to address this otherwise one or two lines of content seems a little strange to me. Honestly, at this point it would seem if there is any agenda, it's to keep this article as unchanging and conservative as possible, no matter the cost. I'm shocked to be confronted by what is difficult to see as anything other than the protected interests of elitist editors. I guess I'll go back to the aspects of our shared project which foster more inclusion and sensibleness. Buddy23Lee ( talk) 05:20, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
I must be too stupid to use Wikipedia as well, as try as I might, I can't seen any justification for not mentioning them either. Anonymous specifically chose this day to conduct some of their activities precisely because of the supposed shared themes between their modern day "hacktivism" and the original historical activism remembered by this festival. Despite their ironic name, since the hacker group are hardly unknown, and since this connection has been commented on by the news, I see absolutely no good reason for Wikipedia to be pretending to the outside world that no such connection exists - because that's the effect of not mentioning it here. Including it in the hacker article obviously doesn't help inform anyone who didn't already know about it beforehand. The suggestion that mentioning the connection here would amount to a takeover of the article seems quite ridiculous to me. I certainly don't see how mentioning it would be completely inappropriate - that makes it sound like Buddy was proposing to add a flashing banner ad for the group. I already knew about the connection, so not mentioning it hardly inconvenienced me, but others are presumably coming here with the express intent of learning about not just the historical context, but the present day significance, of Guy Fawkes Night. Not mentioning Anonymous therefore is a glaring omission. The purpose of Wikipedia is after all to educate, right? It's a long time since I was at a school, but I doubt if kids today are being put in detention or are being told to shut up for mentioning Anonymous in lessons about Guy Fawkes Night, which no doubt features a lot in the curriculum in the coming week. Indeed, in the context of the supposed decline of Bonfire Night as a remembrance of an extreme act of non-conformist political protest (a claim which appears to be vastly overblown in the article, much like the claims that Brits no longer associate Christmas or Easter with Jesus), it seems highly remiss not to mention what is very good evidence that the link has not been forgotten or marginalised in modern day Britain at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Galactic envoy ( talk • contribs) 18:05, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Galactic envoy, I assumed you were drunk as your musings that BuddyLee was being "treated like a moron" and your deluded acknowledgement that you had "taken up the baton on his behalf", was that of someone who was either trolling to trigger an arguement, or a result of someone having too much of the good stuff on the run up to Bonfire night. I don't believe you are a troll (yet) so I innocently put it down to the latter. The reluctance to accept our responses here is, I feel, indicative of someone who cannot accept the consensus and is continuing, simply, because they don't like it.. Cassianto talk 00:12, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
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Please discuss protection policy on an administrative noticeboard. This page is for discussing improvements to the article. Johnuniq ( talk) 22:40, 3 November 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Can I ask why this article appears to have been preemptively protected? I was under the impression that protection is only supposed to be deployed as a response to current/persistent vandalism. It doesn't appear to have been vandalised at all for the 24 hours before it was protected, and before that it was only being vandalised by one apparently static IP. That's clearly a situation easily dealt with without resorting to protection at all, but if you really must put a barrier in the way of people trying to improve articles like this at the very time of year when they will be reading it and noticing the things about it which are deficient, then the least you could do is make the barrier to editing the same as the barrier to creating articles - namely to create an account. I find myself in the utterly perverse position today of being allowed to write an entire article based on something I read in here but which wasn't linked (the Firework Code), which I sadly can't do as an IP but I can do once forced to create an account, yet I then found I'm not even able to hyperlink to it, let alone add/change some of the information here which appears to be out of date or misleading (based on what I've found while researching the code) because of this protection. And yes, while I fully appreciate it's a trivial task to ask someone to link it using this talk page, it's not so trivial to perform the second using intermediaries. Firework bob ( talk) 21:15, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hyperlink Firework Code please. Firework bob ( talk) 22:25, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
Drmies Would PC be a viable option here rather than semi? That would let editors such as bob make some efforts without impacting the site for general readership, and its easy to approve/reject the changes. Then we could move up to semi if/when the actual vandals come and play? Gaijin42 ( talk) 22:35, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I don't know what PC is, but somehow I doubt it would be easy at all - it's taken over an hour just to get a hyperlink added (and I cannot believe I actually had to make it a specific request before it was done). Now apparently I have to find another noticeboard because somehow me complaining here that the preemptive protection on this article was preventing me from improving the article, is somehow not related in any way to improving this article? It would probably be quicker for me to just write an accurate and up to date Fireworks in the United Kingdom article (another article which I can't believe doesn't even exist in 2014 - although its likely content is at least duplicated in places) and just ask for another hyperlink from here. Firework bob ( talk) 23:45, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I see someone else is trying to tell us that GFN is not celebrated in Ireland [2]. Perhaps they should see this and also the leaflet produced by the Orange Order about bonfires at [3]. Richerman (talk) 11:43, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 9 |
Last night this section was archived by the archiving bot. But as the discussion is not ended I am linking to it. As in my opinion the issue has not been adequately addressed. -- PBS ( talk) 10:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
From the history of the article:
MF why did you revert my edit? -- PBS ( talk) 06:54, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
The Appendix sections were changed from one close to the standard format as used in several guidelines to a non-standard format. For the reasons I have already given I think this article shoudl be modified to use the standard format for the appendix sections.
From the history of the article:
Are you suggesting that we should alter the other articles in the area to match the changes I am proposing? Why do the other articles have to have an effect on this one? -- PBS ( talk) 10:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
PoD you mention WP:FNNR part are you indicating justifies the current layout? -- PBS ( talk) 07:41, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Last night this section was archived by the archiving bot. But as the discussion is not ended I am linking to it. -- PBS ( talk) 10:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
PoD how is "explosives" more accurate than "barrels of gunpowder"? -- PBS (talk) 22:01, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
PoD you seem to have reverted the to your preferred version of the text without any explanation on the talk page. -- PBS ( talk) 10:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Since when did the links in the archive box point to the Gunpowder Plot archives? I could swear that earlier today, I was able to click through to the Guy Fawkes Night archive. Parrot of Doom 15:01, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Checking Special:WhatLinksHere, I found 3 correctly named archive pages for this talk page: Talk:Guy Fawkes Night/Archive 1 (up through last October), Talk:Guy Fawkes Night/Archive 3 (November to March) and Talk:Guy Fawkes Night/Archive 4 (since March). Cluebot's [ [1]] link on this talk page seems to be unaware of these pages. Cluebot was still set up to archive to archive pages of Talk:Gunpowder Plot; I've just changed it (I think) to archive to pages in the "Talk:Guy Fawkes Night/Archives/x" format, where x is a number, per Sandy's request. - Dank ( push to talk) 02:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
As I said at the FAC discussion, I'm depositing here the sources I found relating to Guy Fawkes Night in Australia.
Hopefully those will be of some use, either here or at Bonfire Night. Carcharoth ( talk) 01:36, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
I notice that Nikkimaria has now begun to move text from this article to Bonfire Night, which until recently was a disambiguation page. It still has that character and is not a page specific to the 5 November event. I do not know whether her motivation is to take another step towards turning this article into the History of Guy Fawkes Night, she may wish to comment, but I disagree with any further attempt to limit the article's scope, especially while it is in the FA assessment process. Parrot of Doom has said elsewhere that he supports including material here on the contemporary event, subject to its being reliably sourced, so it would be helpful to have his views. What are the views of others on this migration of text to the non-specific (or disambiguation) page? Moonraker2 ( talk) 08:42, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Johnbod ( talk) 16:57, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Claims that Guy Fawkes Night was a Protestant replacement for older customs like Samhain are disputed, although another old celebration, Halloween, has lately increased in popularity, and according to some writers, may threaten the continued observance of 5 November.
I placed a cite request on this, and the parts I bolded i marked as weasle words. This was reverted per WP: LEAD. however no specific reasoning for that revert is given and in that policy, more specifically in the sub section of that policy WP:LEADCITE it clearly says "there is not, however, an exception to citation requirements specific to leads.". I see that there is a citation later in the article which supports some of this, specifically this part " David Underdown, writing in his 1987 work Revel, Riot, and Rebellion, viewed Gunpowder Treason Day as a replacement for Hallowe'en: "just as the early church had taken over many of the pagan feasts, so did Protestants acquire their own rituals, adapting older forms or providing substitutes for them". which is cited by Underdown 1987, p. 70. but this doesnt say Samhain, it says halloween. the part I'm disputing about samhain is mentioned in the body of the article and it is not cited down there either. specifically this sentence Historians have often suggested that Guy Fawkes Day served as a Protestant replacement for the ancient Celtic and Nordic festivals of Samhain, pagan events that the church absorbed and transformed into All Hallow's Eve and All Souls' Day. In The Golden Bough, the Scottish anthropologist James George Frazer suggested that Guy Fawkes Day exemplifies "the recrudescence of old customs in modern shapes". this is not cited. the only cited part is underdown and thats about halloween not samhain. Smitty1337 ( talk) 05:53, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Result: An explanatory footnote should be added.
The discussion was evenly split in terms of numbers, with three editors supporting the addition of a footnote and three indicating opposition. One oppose was on the grounds that "It's commonplace for historians to align dates with the modern calendar without comment." I don't believe this is correct. In any case, it appears to misunderstand the situation, which doesn't involve aligning a date with the modern calendar, but instead leaving it in the Old Style (a point which was made to the editor). Another user objected that, since the article doesn't mention anything about William being involved in religious disputes, the existence of the religious disputes was not a reason for a footnote. This only addresses part of the support argument. The third oppose was on the opposite basis to the first - that Julian dates are not normally converted, and so no clarification is needed. However, this is clearly not true in the case of William, because his dob is commonly given in sources as 14 November. So, each of the reasons for opposing has a flaw.
On the other hand, there are two support votes with which I am unable to find fault, plus one "per suchabody" vote.
It seems fairly obvious that stating William's birth date as 4 November, a date which is different from the date contained in many sources, has potential for causing confusion and misunderstanding. So some clarification would be a good idea. The only opinion in the RfC as to the form that should take was in favour of a footnote.
The article gives the birth date of William III of England thus: "William's birthday fell on 4 November..." Considering that William was born in the Netherlands where the Gregorian calendar was in force, but later became King of England (among other places), where the Julian calendar was in force, is it ambiguous to state the birthdate without providing an explanatory note about which calendar the date is stated in? Jc3s5h ( talk) 18:59, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Support info in footnote:
WP:JG says Dates of events in countries using the Gregorian calendar at that time are given in the Gregorian calendar. This includes some of the Continent of Europe from 1582, the British Empire from 14 September 1752, and Russia from 14 February 1918 (see Gregorian calendar)
.
In this case there are two countries involved:
So IMO an explanatory footnote would not be out of place. I would not support an in-text explanation, because in my view it would break up the flow of the article.
WP:JG also says If there is a need to mention Old or New Style dates in an article (as in the Glorious Revolution), a footnote should be provided on the first usage, stating whether the New Style refers to a start of year adjustment or to the Gregorian calendar (it can mean either)
and the footnote to
Glorious Revolution says In this article "New Style" means the start of year is adjusted to 1 January. Events on the European mainland are usually given using the Gregorian calendar, while events in Great Britain and Ireland are usually given using the Julian calendar with the year adjusted to 1 January. Dates with no explicit Julian or Gregorian postscript will be using the same calendar as the last date with an explicit postscript.
so in my view that supports the use of a similar footnote here.
HTH.
Balaenoptera musculus (
talk)
12:18, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
I consider it ambiguous to fail to state which calendar a person's birthdate is given in, when the person was born in a jurisdiction that observed one calendar but was most famous for his activities in a different jurisdiction. This is particularly troublesome when the person was involved in a religious dispute, where the persons on one side of the dispute observed a different calendar than the persons on the other side of the dispute. Jc3s5h ( talk) 19:04, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
What was the date of birth registered in the births records in his parish at the time? Past dates were never revised when the calendar was changed, they were inviolable. If his birth was recorded as 4 November in either the Gregorian or the Julian on the day, it remains the same in either even if somebody in another country simultaneously recorded his birth under a different date the 4 Nov would stand. However, the calendar in use would be of interest to anybody studying his horoscope because the stars would be in a different alignment, and the ages of everybody who lived through the calendar change was ten days short because it is calculated off the dates; this upset some people at the time who thought that they were to die on a pre-destined calendar date and they were being short-changed ten or eleven days, so by all means note which it was as a footnote. E x nihil ( talk) 14:41, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
My recent improvements to the citation templates in this article were reverted in this edit claiming that they were "arbitrary citation changes based on personal preference". Please allow me to explain each edit further:
|date=October to December 1892
to |date=October–December 1892
to remove the article from
Category:CS1 errors: dates per
WP:DATERANGE.I hope these explanations are better than what I provided in the edit summaries, and that you'll consider restoring some or all of these changes. Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 03:15, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
This article is in dire need of an infobox. It goes to show that Corbett OWNS this article and that Cassianto stands by with his pitchfork when Corbett is not available. I'm surprised at an admin (Bencherlite) getting involved and going against community consensus. Millions of articles have a infobox and THAT is a consensus. 195.89.48.217 ( talk) 15:11, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
An infobox should be used to allow a casual reader to gain facts without having to read the boring text. "Your" article should have one. This needs an infobox!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.89.48.217 ( talk) 15:27, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Guy Fawkes Night | |
---|---|
![]() Festivities in Windsor Castle by Paul Sandby, c. 1776 | |
Observed by | United Kingdom |
Significance | Commemoration of the failure of the Gunpowder Plot |
Celebrations | Bonfires, Fireworks |
Date | 5 November |
Next time | 5 November 2024 |
Frequency | annual |
Nothing to see. Drmies ( talk) 02:44, 2 November 2014 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Forgive me as I don't understand, but why isn't the hacker group Anonymous' recent adoption of GFN, in not just the date, but some of the ideas behind the GFN as well, seen as not relevant to this article? It seems particularly topical and timely here. Is there some particular format I'm not aware of that this content should be in? Buddy23Lee ( talk) 00:21, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Alright, well clearly no one is going to explain to me why this article can't reference these citations, other than, well, it just can't. I don't have any agenda in "promoting" this or any group. I was attempting to write the content as neutral as possible and I would welcome a re-writing by any other editor. The idea of making a separate article to address this otherwise one or two lines of content seems a little strange to me. Honestly, at this point it would seem if there is any agenda, it's to keep this article as unchanging and conservative as possible, no matter the cost. I'm shocked to be confronted by what is difficult to see as anything other than the protected interests of elitist editors. I guess I'll go back to the aspects of our shared project which foster more inclusion and sensibleness. Buddy23Lee ( talk) 05:20, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
I must be too stupid to use Wikipedia as well, as try as I might, I can't seen any justification for not mentioning them either. Anonymous specifically chose this day to conduct some of their activities precisely because of the supposed shared themes between their modern day "hacktivism" and the original historical activism remembered by this festival. Despite their ironic name, since the hacker group are hardly unknown, and since this connection has been commented on by the news, I see absolutely no good reason for Wikipedia to be pretending to the outside world that no such connection exists - because that's the effect of not mentioning it here. Including it in the hacker article obviously doesn't help inform anyone who didn't already know about it beforehand. The suggestion that mentioning the connection here would amount to a takeover of the article seems quite ridiculous to me. I certainly don't see how mentioning it would be completely inappropriate - that makes it sound like Buddy was proposing to add a flashing banner ad for the group. I already knew about the connection, so not mentioning it hardly inconvenienced me, but others are presumably coming here with the express intent of learning about not just the historical context, but the present day significance, of Guy Fawkes Night. Not mentioning Anonymous therefore is a glaring omission. The purpose of Wikipedia is after all to educate, right? It's a long time since I was at a school, but I doubt if kids today are being put in detention or are being told to shut up for mentioning Anonymous in lessons about Guy Fawkes Night, which no doubt features a lot in the curriculum in the coming week. Indeed, in the context of the supposed decline of Bonfire Night as a remembrance of an extreme act of non-conformist political protest (a claim which appears to be vastly overblown in the article, much like the claims that Brits no longer associate Christmas or Easter with Jesus), it seems highly remiss not to mention what is very good evidence that the link has not been forgotten or marginalised in modern day Britain at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Galactic envoy ( talk • contribs) 18:05, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Galactic envoy, I assumed you were drunk as your musings that BuddyLee was being "treated like a moron" and your deluded acknowledgement that you had "taken up the baton on his behalf", was that of someone who was either trolling to trigger an arguement, or a result of someone having too much of the good stuff on the run up to Bonfire night. I don't believe you are a troll (yet) so I innocently put it down to the latter. The reluctance to accept our responses here is, I feel, indicative of someone who cannot accept the consensus and is continuing, simply, because they don't like it.. Cassianto talk 00:12, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
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Please discuss protection policy on an administrative noticeboard. This page is for discussing improvements to the article. Johnuniq ( talk) 22:40, 3 November 2014 (UTC) |
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Can I ask why this article appears to have been preemptively protected? I was under the impression that protection is only supposed to be deployed as a response to current/persistent vandalism. It doesn't appear to have been vandalised at all for the 24 hours before it was protected, and before that it was only being vandalised by one apparently static IP. That's clearly a situation easily dealt with without resorting to protection at all, but if you really must put a barrier in the way of people trying to improve articles like this at the very time of year when they will be reading it and noticing the things about it which are deficient, then the least you could do is make the barrier to editing the same as the barrier to creating articles - namely to create an account. I find myself in the utterly perverse position today of being allowed to write an entire article based on something I read in here but which wasn't linked (the Firework Code), which I sadly can't do as an IP but I can do once forced to create an account, yet I then found I'm not even able to hyperlink to it, let alone add/change some of the information here which appears to be out of date or misleading (based on what I've found while researching the code) because of this protection. And yes, while I fully appreciate it's a trivial task to ask someone to link it using this talk page, it's not so trivial to perform the second using intermediaries. Firework bob ( talk) 21:15, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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Hyperlink Firework Code please. Firework bob ( talk) 22:25, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
Drmies Would PC be a viable option here rather than semi? That would let editors such as bob make some efforts without impacting the site for general readership, and its easy to approve/reject the changes. Then we could move up to semi if/when the actual vandals come and play? Gaijin42 ( talk) 22:35, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I don't know what PC is, but somehow I doubt it would be easy at all - it's taken over an hour just to get a hyperlink added (and I cannot believe I actually had to make it a specific request before it was done). Now apparently I have to find another noticeboard because somehow me complaining here that the preemptive protection on this article was preventing me from improving the article, is somehow not related in any way to improving this article? It would probably be quicker for me to just write an accurate and up to date Fireworks in the United Kingdom article (another article which I can't believe doesn't even exist in 2014 - although its likely content is at least duplicated in places) and just ask for another hyperlink from here. Firework bob ( talk) 23:45, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
I see someone else is trying to tell us that GFN is not celebrated in Ireland [2]. Perhaps they should see this and also the leaflet produced by the Orange Order about bonfires at [3]. Richerman (talk) 11:43, 20 November 2014 (UTC)