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I don't think it's really a stub anymore. It's somewhat detailed. The logo was weird, so I removed it. A map might be a good addition. -- Slowking Man
it's not accurate to include karmay tzur, har giloh, and bietar. maybe neve daniel. the original core region would include k etion, a shvut and rosh tzurim. bat ayin could be included due to its proximity to kfar etion. similaraly elazar, ephrat and migdal oz. n daniel is "sretching it". anything else should be mentioned under the " Gush Etzion Regional Council". Shilonite 22:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I know these settlements were/had been legal settlements, but the only two legal ways forward for them was to live under Arab sovereignty (/at peace with their neighbours) or evacuate. They chose to stand and fight - to oppose the sovereignty that Zionists (over and over) insist they'd accepted. It's nonsense to treat the settlements as anything other than heavily armed and most unwanted intruders.
And the article even fails to admit (attempts to conceal) what other Zionist supporting material boast of, this was an armed camp eg Kfar Etzion Remembered: A history of Gush Etzion and the Massacre of Kfar Etzion - 'The total fighting force in Gush Etzion consisted, by the spring of 1948, of 535 men and women, including 215 men and 100 women of the kibbutzim and 220 fighters sent by the Haganah'.
PalestineRemembered 10:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
No, just saying that Gush Etzion was a Palmach stronghold. That, for some reason, is inexplicably down played in the article that has had removed from it much of the militaristic nature of the stronghold...a married women gets called a "girl" in the article, she was a female soldier who volunteered to aid attacks on Palestinian Arab convoys..what you expect the Palestinians to do nothing about a fortified stronghold that was conducting raids in area... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 21:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
From B. Morris, The Road to Jerusalem: Glubb Pasha, Palestine and the Jews, page 135: "During the months before 15 May, Arab civilian and British and Legion military traffic was periodically fired upon along the Hebron-Jerusalem road. The fire came from Haganah militiamen stationed in the Etzion Bloc kibbutzim"-- Doron 12:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Are the communities in any specific order? It seems to me that they are randomly placed. Leppi 14:38, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Surely, more accurately, it's "literally Etzion bloc"? -- Dweller ( talk) 10:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
In addition to the previous section, I believe that the article should be moved to Etzion Bloc per WP:ENGLISH. Both terms are used, and I believe that the English term is known enough and more descriptive for an English-speaking audience. — Ynhockey ( Talk) 23:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
I have restored the terms "illegal" and occupied" in the article which have been repeatedly removed by User:Hmbr and previously by User:Philip Trueman. These two editors are using Israeli government's narrative and are removing the terms like "illegal" and "occupied" which are the terms used by UN and International Court of Justice, the highest judicial body in the world. If the highest judicial body says it's occupied territory and settlements are illegal, those terms are not "controversial" as claimed by User:Hmbr. If these terms are to be removed, there should be a tag on the page that says that this is an Israeli POV article. "Recalling that the Security Council described Israel's policy of establishing settlements in that territory as a “flagrant violation” of the Fourth Geneva Convention, the Court finds that those settlements have been established in breach of international law." Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1677.pdf User:Waqas.usman ( Talk) 16:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Also, the country of Israel in not building in the Gush Eztion, Palestinians are. Almost 100% of the Jewish houses, synagogues, stores, schools, etc in the Gush are built by Palestinians.Palestinian contractors, Palestinian stone, Palestinian trucks delivering, Palestinian labor. The Palestinians are expanding the Jewish presence in the Gush by building it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78akka ( talk • contribs) 18:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
to 78akka I am neither Jew nor Palestinian nor Arab I am very glad to learn that all people who live there have the same rights, they go in the same supermarket Ramy Levy, they use the same cars, so why some of them have Palestinian license plates and other Israelian license plates? Why haven't they an uniform plate (given by a unique state) can a Jewish girl (or boy) marry a Palestinian boy (or girl)? Is there a unique municipality where the vote of a Jew and of a Palestinian is equal? Have the Palestians and the Jews the same identity card with no distinctive mention of Jew or Palestinian? If not they have not the same rights — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.230.85.18 ( talk) 23:07, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Non-content related discussion
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---|
The country of Israel is not building in Gush Eztion, Palestinians are. Almost 100% of the Jewish houses, synagogues, stores, schools, etc in the Gush are built by Palestinians. Palestinian contractors, Palestinian stone, Palestinian trucks delivering, Palestinian labor. The Palestinians are expanding the Jewish presence in the Gush by building it. By your reasoning, they are involved with a large scale illegal enterprise for 100's of millions of dollars for decades. Should they not be prosecuted?
No, I don't think anyone should be prosecuted. I don't think it is illegal. I am just posing the question. For all the people who think it is illegal, do you want to prosecute both sides; the person paying for the building and the person taking money for doing the building? Or do you want to say, hire a builder - get in trouble, but take the money, do the building - no problem. Typically if there is some type of illegal activity, both parties can get in trouble. Why are people only going after one side and ignoring the other? -- 78akka ( talk) 20:38, 27 October 2010 (UTC)78akka |
What is the official wikipedia policy? Should the opening sentence about a town or a state or a country explain what the status of that entity was 100 or 200 years ago or should it describe the current status? For the majority of Wikipedia articles, the opening sentence is what it is today, not what it was 90 years ago, why should Gush Etzion be an exception to describe it from a specific POV and not from the NPOV as recognized by the whole world (except one country)? For example, an article about Hawaii does not start with a sentence that says that Hawaii was an independent kingdom in 1778, or that it was independent until 1893, it starts with a sentence that says that it's a US state. Should we change Gush Etzion's opening sentence to describe current status or should we modify Hawaii (and other articles about places)? User:Waqas.usman ( Talk) 20:02, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Reminding editors of WP:WESTBANK and the specific prohibition on using Judea or Samaria as a name of a current place (number 6: The terms "Samaria" or "Judea" cannot be used without qualification in the NPOV neutral voice; for example, it cannot be asserted without qualification that a place is "in Samaria"). Debresser, kindly familiarize yourself with that guideline so that you dont make edits like this again. Also, your edit, like the original IP's vandalism, changed the name of references in the article making titles that actually say "West Bank settlers shrug ..." read as "Judea settlers shrug". Please be more careful in the future. Thanks, nableezy - 18:36, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
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Below is a list found in the respective article about different population amounts of each town. They are updated to 2008, and not 2015, the most recent census, and their are considerable changes between them. The new census can be found here- http://www.cbs.gov.il/ishuvim/reshimalefishem.pdf I strongly wish some one would change and update this info, because since it is out of date, it is incorrect and factually wrong.
Here is the old list Name Founded Population (EOY 2008)[30] Type Alon Shvut 1970 3,400 Community settlement Bat Ayin 1989 900 Community settlement Beitar Illit 1985 38,800 Independent municipality[31] Efrat 1983 8,300 Independent municipality[31] Elazar 1975 1,706 Community settlement Karmei Tzur 1984 700 Community settlement Kedar 1984 960 Community settlement Kfar Eldad 1994 120 Community settlement Kfar Etzion 1967 820 Kibbutz Gevaot 1984 75 Community settlement Har Gilo 1968 570 Community settlement Ibei HaNahal 1999 50 Outpost Ma'ale Amos 1982 270 Community settlement Ma'ale Rehav'am 2001 40 Outpost Metzad 1984 380 Community settlement Migdal Oz 1977 440 Kibbutz Neve Daniel 1982 1,883 Community settlement Nokdim 1982 1,300 Community settlement Pnei Kedem 2000 100 Outpost Rosh Tzurim 1969 560 Kibbutz Sde Boaz 2002 90 Outpost Tekoa 1975 1,600 Community settlement Jaketheforestdude ( talk) 21:28, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
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Could you make the table sortable by adding the sortable
class to it, please? Thanks in advance, --
Marsupium (
talk)
23:04, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
I restored the longstanding version as the cited source ( [1]) uses Israeli independence war and the sentence itself is about the Israeli psyche and symbolism which uses this term. 11Fox11 ( talk) 15:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
In addition, the term 1947–1949 Palestine war is virtually non-existent in academic literature. This is completely incorrect. Per Google NGrams, 1948 Arab–Israeli War is overwhelmingly the WP:COMMONNAME in English. -- Aquillion ( talk) 05:23, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
@ Zero0000: have you seen any maps showing where the 1943-48 settlements were in relation to each other? The only map I could find was from 1943, just before the re-founding of Kfar Etzion. Onceinawhile ( talk) 22:58, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Is there any post-67 settlement at the site of old Revivim? Arminden ( talk) 22:19, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
I don't think it's really a stub anymore. It's somewhat detailed. The logo was weird, so I removed it. A map might be a good addition. -- Slowking Man
it's not accurate to include karmay tzur, har giloh, and bietar. maybe neve daniel. the original core region would include k etion, a shvut and rosh tzurim. bat ayin could be included due to its proximity to kfar etion. similaraly elazar, ephrat and migdal oz. n daniel is "sretching it". anything else should be mentioned under the " Gush Etzion Regional Council". Shilonite 22:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I know these settlements were/had been legal settlements, but the only two legal ways forward for them was to live under Arab sovereignty (/at peace with their neighbours) or evacuate. They chose to stand and fight - to oppose the sovereignty that Zionists (over and over) insist they'd accepted. It's nonsense to treat the settlements as anything other than heavily armed and most unwanted intruders.
And the article even fails to admit (attempts to conceal) what other Zionist supporting material boast of, this was an armed camp eg Kfar Etzion Remembered: A history of Gush Etzion and the Massacre of Kfar Etzion - 'The total fighting force in Gush Etzion consisted, by the spring of 1948, of 535 men and women, including 215 men and 100 women of the kibbutzim and 220 fighters sent by the Haganah'.
PalestineRemembered 10:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
No, just saying that Gush Etzion was a Palmach stronghold. That, for some reason, is inexplicably down played in the article that has had removed from it much of the militaristic nature of the stronghold...a married women gets called a "girl" in the article, she was a female soldier who volunteered to aid attacks on Palestinian Arab convoys..what you expect the Palestinians to do nothing about a fortified stronghold that was conducting raids in area... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 21:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
From B. Morris, The Road to Jerusalem: Glubb Pasha, Palestine and the Jews, page 135: "During the months before 15 May, Arab civilian and British and Legion military traffic was periodically fired upon along the Hebron-Jerusalem road. The fire came from Haganah militiamen stationed in the Etzion Bloc kibbutzim"-- Doron 12:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Are the communities in any specific order? It seems to me that they are randomly placed. Leppi 14:38, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Surely, more accurately, it's "literally Etzion bloc"? -- Dweller ( talk) 10:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
In addition to the previous section, I believe that the article should be moved to Etzion Bloc per WP:ENGLISH. Both terms are used, and I believe that the English term is known enough and more descriptive for an English-speaking audience. — Ynhockey ( Talk) 23:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
I have restored the terms "illegal" and occupied" in the article which have been repeatedly removed by User:Hmbr and previously by User:Philip Trueman. These two editors are using Israeli government's narrative and are removing the terms like "illegal" and "occupied" which are the terms used by UN and International Court of Justice, the highest judicial body in the world. If the highest judicial body says it's occupied territory and settlements are illegal, those terms are not "controversial" as claimed by User:Hmbr. If these terms are to be removed, there should be a tag on the page that says that this is an Israeli POV article. "Recalling that the Security Council described Israel's policy of establishing settlements in that territory as a “flagrant violation” of the Fourth Geneva Convention, the Court finds that those settlements have been established in breach of international law." Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1677.pdf User:Waqas.usman ( Talk) 16:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Also, the country of Israel in not building in the Gush Eztion, Palestinians are. Almost 100% of the Jewish houses, synagogues, stores, schools, etc in the Gush are built by Palestinians.Palestinian contractors, Palestinian stone, Palestinian trucks delivering, Palestinian labor. The Palestinians are expanding the Jewish presence in the Gush by building it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78akka ( talk • contribs) 18:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
to 78akka I am neither Jew nor Palestinian nor Arab I am very glad to learn that all people who live there have the same rights, they go in the same supermarket Ramy Levy, they use the same cars, so why some of them have Palestinian license plates and other Israelian license plates? Why haven't they an uniform plate (given by a unique state) can a Jewish girl (or boy) marry a Palestinian boy (or girl)? Is there a unique municipality where the vote of a Jew and of a Palestinian is equal? Have the Palestians and the Jews the same identity card with no distinctive mention of Jew or Palestinian? If not they have not the same rights — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.230.85.18 ( talk) 23:07, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Non-content related discussion
|
---|
The country of Israel is not building in Gush Eztion, Palestinians are. Almost 100% of the Jewish houses, synagogues, stores, schools, etc in the Gush are built by Palestinians. Palestinian contractors, Palestinian stone, Palestinian trucks delivering, Palestinian labor. The Palestinians are expanding the Jewish presence in the Gush by building it. By your reasoning, they are involved with a large scale illegal enterprise for 100's of millions of dollars for decades. Should they not be prosecuted?
No, I don't think anyone should be prosecuted. I don't think it is illegal. I am just posing the question. For all the people who think it is illegal, do you want to prosecute both sides; the person paying for the building and the person taking money for doing the building? Or do you want to say, hire a builder - get in trouble, but take the money, do the building - no problem. Typically if there is some type of illegal activity, both parties can get in trouble. Why are people only going after one side and ignoring the other? -- 78akka ( talk) 20:38, 27 October 2010 (UTC)78akka |
What is the official wikipedia policy? Should the opening sentence about a town or a state or a country explain what the status of that entity was 100 or 200 years ago or should it describe the current status? For the majority of Wikipedia articles, the opening sentence is what it is today, not what it was 90 years ago, why should Gush Etzion be an exception to describe it from a specific POV and not from the NPOV as recognized by the whole world (except one country)? For example, an article about Hawaii does not start with a sentence that says that Hawaii was an independent kingdom in 1778, or that it was independent until 1893, it starts with a sentence that says that it's a US state. Should we change Gush Etzion's opening sentence to describe current status or should we modify Hawaii (and other articles about places)? User:Waqas.usman ( Talk) 20:02, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Reminding editors of WP:WESTBANK and the specific prohibition on using Judea or Samaria as a name of a current place (number 6: The terms "Samaria" or "Judea" cannot be used without qualification in the NPOV neutral voice; for example, it cannot be asserted without qualification that a place is "in Samaria"). Debresser, kindly familiarize yourself with that guideline so that you dont make edits like this again. Also, your edit, like the original IP's vandalism, changed the name of references in the article making titles that actually say "West Bank settlers shrug ..." read as "Judea settlers shrug". Please be more careful in the future. Thanks, nableezy - 18:36, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
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Below is a list found in the respective article about different population amounts of each town. They are updated to 2008, and not 2015, the most recent census, and their are considerable changes between them. The new census can be found here- http://www.cbs.gov.il/ishuvim/reshimalefishem.pdf I strongly wish some one would change and update this info, because since it is out of date, it is incorrect and factually wrong.
Here is the old list Name Founded Population (EOY 2008)[30] Type Alon Shvut 1970 3,400 Community settlement Bat Ayin 1989 900 Community settlement Beitar Illit 1985 38,800 Independent municipality[31] Efrat 1983 8,300 Independent municipality[31] Elazar 1975 1,706 Community settlement Karmei Tzur 1984 700 Community settlement Kedar 1984 960 Community settlement Kfar Eldad 1994 120 Community settlement Kfar Etzion 1967 820 Kibbutz Gevaot 1984 75 Community settlement Har Gilo 1968 570 Community settlement Ibei HaNahal 1999 50 Outpost Ma'ale Amos 1982 270 Community settlement Ma'ale Rehav'am 2001 40 Outpost Metzad 1984 380 Community settlement Migdal Oz 1977 440 Kibbutz Neve Daniel 1982 1,883 Community settlement Nokdim 1982 1,300 Community settlement Pnei Kedem 2000 100 Outpost Rosh Tzurim 1969 560 Kibbutz Sde Boaz 2002 90 Outpost Tekoa 1975 1,600 Community settlement Jaketheforestdude ( talk) 21:28, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Gush Etzion. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:36, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
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Could you make the table sortable by adding the sortable
class to it, please? Thanks in advance, --
Marsupium (
talk)
23:04, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
I restored the longstanding version as the cited source ( [1]) uses Israeli independence war and the sentence itself is about the Israeli psyche and symbolism which uses this term. 11Fox11 ( talk) 15:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
In addition, the term 1947–1949 Palestine war is virtually non-existent in academic literature. This is completely incorrect. Per Google NGrams, 1948 Arab–Israeli War is overwhelmingly the WP:COMMONNAME in English. -- Aquillion ( talk) 05:23, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
@ Zero0000: have you seen any maps showing where the 1943-48 settlements were in relation to each other? The only map I could find was from 1943, just before the re-founding of Kfar Etzion. Onceinawhile ( talk) 22:58, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Is there any post-67 settlement at the site of old Revivim? Arminden ( talk) 22:19, 5 February 2024 (UTC)