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Can I ask how Graeme Obree is classed as a 'Scottish' cyclist if he was born in England? Douglasnicol 00:51, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
because both his parents are scottish, and he has lived in scotland from a very young age. He was simply only born in England —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jupebox ( talk • contribs) 16:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
As someone who is both Scottish and British I can assure you that Obree is also both of these. Because of the historical, social and political situation in Scotland, at least as many Scots consider themselves to be Scottish as British, and most consider themselves to be both. This is not a contradiction, but reflects a particular historical situation as well as genuine ambiguity in the definition of what a "nation" actually is (Wikipedia currently defines it a "cultural and social community"). Clearly, Obree is Scottish, and the fact that he is also British is implicit in this. Thus "Scottish" is the more informative adjective. To assert this is not "Scottish Nationalistic" in the political sense. Spiridens ( talk) 23:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
I was born in Scotland but my Scottish friends would not consider me Scottish. I speak with an English accent and have spent many more years south of the border. I'm English. He can be whatever he wants to be. Cross Reference ( talk) 04:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
I know that he doesn't like being known as "The Washing Machine guy", but surely the fact that Obree used the bearing from an old machine in Old Faithful is worthy of a mention? http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland/asportingnation/article/0037/index.shtml TrulyBlue 14:24, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
In the opening of the article it says that he has clinical depression which is a term most often used for major depressive disorder (unipolar). Later in the article it says he was diagnosed with severe manic-depression, i.e. bipolar disorder. These are really two different mental illnesses which should not be used interchangeably. Consider clarifying. 67.173.52.107 ( talk) 14:17, 28 March 2009 (UTC)JJMO
-- Mais oui! ( talk) 06:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
This bike seems to be at least 2 bikes: one built by Obree and one a replica of it built by Mike Burrows, or maybe one bike with different versions. The article at the moment only mentions one bike and that it had "only one blade in the front fork".
This article http://www.scotlandforvisitors.com/nmspic.php shows a bike with 2 blades in the front fork and says 'This is the "home made bike" that Graeme Obree won a variety of records and championships on'. Does the fact that "home made bike" is in quotes imply that this one was not actually home made. This picture is of a bike in a museum, but unfortunately the museum description in the photo is too small to read.
This article http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/cyclists/obree/graeme-obree-bikes/ shows a one-bladed bike the photo presently in the present article and also the the two-bladed bike version. In the text it says that Obree made a failed attempt at the one hour record on the replica, and then a successful attempt on the original - but it does not make it clear which one is which.
(Reference to blacklisted URL removed by original editor.)
The film also mentions the original and replica versions, but shows them as two definitely distinct bikes (not as one bike with some parts changed) - though I think that this may very well be for dramatic purposes.
This photo on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/semi-detached/219393125/ shows a two-bladed bike with the comment that it "looks pretty DIY at close range".
As an extra complication: this photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/rabsda/3669449525/ has a caption that says "This bike was built by Graeme Obree for the film "The Flying Scotsman". It is a replica of Old Faithful which he used to beat Moser's hour record in 1993. This is two-bladed.
Some info from http://graemeobree.co.uk/default.aspx which says "This site isn't endorsed by Graeme Obree directly". "Graeme and his few assistants flew to Hamar in Norway, and he just failed in his first attempt to break the record." (not mentioning what bike was used), and "Graeme had the track booked for 24 hours, and said he would go again in the morning. This time round, he used his own home-built bike (dubbed "Old Faithful") and smashed the record, earning himself a place in the history books."
What I think is the official Obree website http://www.obree.com/index.php does not seem to say anything on the subject (or I just could not find it).
In this interview Obree http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8571281.stm (audio) Obree mentions Old Faithful, the fact that it "hangs in the National Museum of Scotland", washing machine issue and that he is "glad to see the back of it" and it being "last century". The different versions and number of blades is not mentioned.
I don't feel I have got to the bottom of this question yet. I do not necessarily think that all of this info should go in the main article, but I think that the main article should ideally clarify and verify at least:
1. which exactly was the bike that Obree broke the one hour record on,
2. what this bike was actually made of, who designed it and who actually built it,
3. if 1 and 2 are not possible, to have some indication that it was not simply one bike and point out that the photos show different bikes.
One more thing: the article mentions 'a tread of "one banana"' as mentioned in the film. Was this just in the film, or in reality? FrankSier ( talk) 16:53, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Can I ask how Graeme Obree is classed as a 'Scottish' cyclist if he was born in England? Douglasnicol 00:51, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
because both his parents are scottish, and he has lived in scotland from a very young age. He was simply only born in England —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jupebox ( talk • contribs) 16:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
As someone who is both Scottish and British I can assure you that Obree is also both of these. Because of the historical, social and political situation in Scotland, at least as many Scots consider themselves to be Scottish as British, and most consider themselves to be both. This is not a contradiction, but reflects a particular historical situation as well as genuine ambiguity in the definition of what a "nation" actually is (Wikipedia currently defines it a "cultural and social community"). Clearly, Obree is Scottish, and the fact that he is also British is implicit in this. Thus "Scottish" is the more informative adjective. To assert this is not "Scottish Nationalistic" in the political sense. Spiridens ( talk) 23:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
I was born in Scotland but my Scottish friends would not consider me Scottish. I speak with an English accent and have spent many more years south of the border. I'm English. He can be whatever he wants to be. Cross Reference ( talk) 04:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
I know that he doesn't like being known as "The Washing Machine guy", but surely the fact that Obree used the bearing from an old machine in Old Faithful is worthy of a mention? http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland/asportingnation/article/0037/index.shtml TrulyBlue 14:24, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
In the opening of the article it says that he has clinical depression which is a term most often used for major depressive disorder (unipolar). Later in the article it says he was diagnosed with severe manic-depression, i.e. bipolar disorder. These are really two different mental illnesses which should not be used interchangeably. Consider clarifying. 67.173.52.107 ( talk) 14:17, 28 March 2009 (UTC)JJMO
-- Mais oui! ( talk) 06:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
This bike seems to be at least 2 bikes: one built by Obree and one a replica of it built by Mike Burrows, or maybe one bike with different versions. The article at the moment only mentions one bike and that it had "only one blade in the front fork".
This article http://www.scotlandforvisitors.com/nmspic.php shows a bike with 2 blades in the front fork and says 'This is the "home made bike" that Graeme Obree won a variety of records and championships on'. Does the fact that "home made bike" is in quotes imply that this one was not actually home made. This picture is of a bike in a museum, but unfortunately the museum description in the photo is too small to read.
This article http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/cyclists/obree/graeme-obree-bikes/ shows a one-bladed bike the photo presently in the present article and also the the two-bladed bike version. In the text it says that Obree made a failed attempt at the one hour record on the replica, and then a successful attempt on the original - but it does not make it clear which one is which.
(Reference to blacklisted URL removed by original editor.)
The film also mentions the original and replica versions, but shows them as two definitely distinct bikes (not as one bike with some parts changed) - though I think that this may very well be for dramatic purposes.
This photo on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/semi-detached/219393125/ shows a two-bladed bike with the comment that it "looks pretty DIY at close range".
As an extra complication: this photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/rabsda/3669449525/ has a caption that says "This bike was built by Graeme Obree for the film "The Flying Scotsman". It is a replica of Old Faithful which he used to beat Moser's hour record in 1993. This is two-bladed.
Some info from http://graemeobree.co.uk/default.aspx which says "This site isn't endorsed by Graeme Obree directly". "Graeme and his few assistants flew to Hamar in Norway, and he just failed in his first attempt to break the record." (not mentioning what bike was used), and "Graeme had the track booked for 24 hours, and said he would go again in the morning. This time round, he used his own home-built bike (dubbed "Old Faithful") and smashed the record, earning himself a place in the history books."
What I think is the official Obree website http://www.obree.com/index.php does not seem to say anything on the subject (or I just could not find it).
In this interview Obree http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8571281.stm (audio) Obree mentions Old Faithful, the fact that it "hangs in the National Museum of Scotland", washing machine issue and that he is "glad to see the back of it" and it being "last century". The different versions and number of blades is not mentioned.
I don't feel I have got to the bottom of this question yet. I do not necessarily think that all of this info should go in the main article, but I think that the main article should ideally clarify and verify at least:
1. which exactly was the bike that Obree broke the one hour record on,
2. what this bike was actually made of, who designed it and who actually built it,
3. if 1 and 2 are not possible, to have some indication that it was not simply one bike and point out that the photos show different bikes.
One more thing: the article mentions 'a tread of "one banana"' as mentioned in the film. Was this just in the film, or in reality? FrankSier ( talk) 16:53, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Graeme Obree. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:18, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Graeme Obree. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:48, 22 October 2017 (UTC)