A fact from Gombe Chimpanzee War appeared on Wikipedia's
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 6 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MaroonPants, Sol Azure, Ifein, G.keppler.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 21:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Ok this is a cool subject and it's scientifically significant but isn't it a bit ridiculous to use the normal sidebox for wars here? "Result: Decisive Kasakela victory." It's good that whoever made the article had fun but give me a break. It involved 30 chimps. Are we going to use this template for bar fights or battles between ant colonies? 216.36.8.232 ( talk) 02:58, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
I wonder why Goliath is marked as the leader of the Kahama community. According to "Chimpanzees of Gombe: patterns of behavior" Goliath was old and low-ranking at the time, while Charlie was the alpha male of Kahama. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.173.112.229 ( talk) 14:17, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
Why does this one get counted as a war, right down to ‘decisive Kaskella victory’, but the Emu War is just an ‘event’ -- StrexcorpEmployee ( talk) 07:31, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Due to the numbers involved I would say this was more a of a feud than a war. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
217.32.168.5 (
talk) 14:09, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
The article infobox mention that Kasakela chimpanzees suffered 1 casualty, but nowhere in the text does it say when. Nor the source (Through a Window...) mentioned any Kasakela casualties or at least I couldn't find any. However in subsesquent conflict against the Kalande, two Kasakela males disappeared, presumably killed. -- 2001:14BA:AB01:3186:0:0:0:1 ( talk) 14:47, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Came here to ask this exact question! I also feel like the female chimpanzee (Gigi) who tagged along to multiple attacks and even participated should be listed in the ‘strength’ column. Given that we know females were involved on both sides, shouldn’t they be counted as part of the whole? EerieSomething ( talk) 20:28, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
The article " A Brief History of the Gombe Chimpanzee War" by Matthew Bian, published September 17, 2021 on the Discover magazine website, is suspiciously similar in structure and content to the version of this article that already existed at that time. I am becoming deeply concerned about the increasing difficulty of finding reliable sources that are independent of Wikipedia content. The very existence of Wikipedia is making the project of creating Wikipedia more difficult. Gildir ( talk) 02:16, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
The german article has a very important section on how war among humans isnt necessarily necessary and can be avoided which the english version lacks. I cant add it, can someone else do it? (Maybe take a quick look that the words are correct because im max C1, not C2, and cant flatten the translation out)
Interdisciplinary importance/relevance
(Not soooo important: Evolutionary Biology
How male specimens of common chimpanzees organize themselves into 'fighting associations' to maintain the territories they occupy against predators and species-specific competition, how the 'conquered' female communities care for their offspring, and how the offspring in turn interact, is of interest to anthropology as well as psychology. Jane Goodall was one of three assistants commissioned by Louis Leakey to explore forms of cohabitation among chimpanzees, orangutans (by Birutė Galdikas), and gorillas (by Dian Fossey). As a paleoanthropologist, he hoped to be able to draw conclusions about the evolution of behavior in the early phylogenetic development of humans from the results of the new research areas thus established - for Goodall, a mission she made her life's work.
But NOW it gets important!)
Philosophical anthropology
Homo sapiens has several other options to choose from: its members possess a consciousness that has evolved to such an extent that they are in principle capable of memorializing and transmitting the events of wars they have experienced, and of controlling their birth rate in wise consideration of the planet's limited surface. No less are they in principle capable of consciously taming their combative impulses themselves, e.g. by agreeing with their enemies on treaties that compensate for the lack of resources (as a frequent result of overpopulation) by peaceful exchange of goods. This capacity is called attention to by primate ethologist Frans de Waal, on the occasion of the very impression of the cruelty of the war-like behavior of our closest relatives and the questions, also raised by the interview, of what we share with them that makes us different. That No Joke ( talk) 01:50, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Great Chimpanzee War and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 28#Great Chimpanzee War until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed, Rosguill talk 16:09, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
The info box is ridiculous, but if it must be there it needs to be cleaned of the anthropomorphising nonsense about commanders and slaves. This is not Animal Farm. Claims that animals have commanders and slaves are extraordinary, and need explicit qualification with high quality sources actually using this trend, not just synth conclusions because that's what it sounds like to the reader of Goodall's book. If you want this extraordinary stuff in there the WP:ONUS it's on you to source it properly. As it stands is just OR. Unbh ( talk) 13:38, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Sorry to re-open this conversation, but Goodall claims that at least one female (Gigi) was involved on two occasions: on the initial attack against Godi she’s reported to have ‘charged back and forth around the melee’ and she actually joined in with the attack on Dé. (Through A Window p.122) It’s not mentioned whether she was around for any of the other skirmishes, but Goodall does mention at the start of the ‘War’ chapter that she joined a group of males attacking a female from one of the other communities. I think this information is significant - Goodall obviously thought it was relevant in her initial recounting of the war. EerieSomething ( talk) 20:42, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
@Applodion thank you so much! EerieSomething ( talk) 21:43, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
This discovery of the violent nature of chimpanzee groups must have been one of the inspirations behind William Boyd's 1990 novel Brazzaville Beach, with the character Hope Clearwater modelled on Jane Goodall. Does anyone know whether Boyd has talked about this? PhilUK ( talk) 11:01, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
There's an audio added to this page that could be vandalism, around midway through it the speaker starts laughing and it seems to be in an over the top accent, however I'm not 100% on it being made on bad faith or not. Kauefields ( talk) 06:51, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
A fact from Gombe Chimpanzee War appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 19 June 2014 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 6 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MaroonPants, Sol Azure, Ifein, G.keppler.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 21:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Ok this is a cool subject and it's scientifically significant but isn't it a bit ridiculous to use the normal sidebox for wars here? "Result: Decisive Kasakela victory." It's good that whoever made the article had fun but give me a break. It involved 30 chimps. Are we going to use this template for bar fights or battles between ant colonies? 216.36.8.232 ( talk) 02:58, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
I wonder why Goliath is marked as the leader of the Kahama community. According to "Chimpanzees of Gombe: patterns of behavior" Goliath was old and low-ranking at the time, while Charlie was the alpha male of Kahama. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.173.112.229 ( talk) 14:17, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
Why does this one get counted as a war, right down to ‘decisive Kaskella victory’, but the Emu War is just an ‘event’ -- StrexcorpEmployee ( talk) 07:31, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Due to the numbers involved I would say this was more a of a feud than a war. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
217.32.168.5 (
talk) 14:09, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
The article infobox mention that Kasakela chimpanzees suffered 1 casualty, but nowhere in the text does it say when. Nor the source (Through a Window...) mentioned any Kasakela casualties or at least I couldn't find any. However in subsesquent conflict against the Kalande, two Kasakela males disappeared, presumably killed. -- 2001:14BA:AB01:3186:0:0:0:1 ( talk) 14:47, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Came here to ask this exact question! I also feel like the female chimpanzee (Gigi) who tagged along to multiple attacks and even participated should be listed in the ‘strength’ column. Given that we know females were involved on both sides, shouldn’t they be counted as part of the whole? EerieSomething ( talk) 20:28, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
The article " A Brief History of the Gombe Chimpanzee War" by Matthew Bian, published September 17, 2021 on the Discover magazine website, is suspiciously similar in structure and content to the version of this article that already existed at that time. I am becoming deeply concerned about the increasing difficulty of finding reliable sources that are independent of Wikipedia content. The very existence of Wikipedia is making the project of creating Wikipedia more difficult. Gildir ( talk) 02:16, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
The german article has a very important section on how war among humans isnt necessarily necessary and can be avoided which the english version lacks. I cant add it, can someone else do it? (Maybe take a quick look that the words are correct because im max C1, not C2, and cant flatten the translation out)
Interdisciplinary importance/relevance
(Not soooo important: Evolutionary Biology
How male specimens of common chimpanzees organize themselves into 'fighting associations' to maintain the territories they occupy against predators and species-specific competition, how the 'conquered' female communities care for their offspring, and how the offspring in turn interact, is of interest to anthropology as well as psychology. Jane Goodall was one of three assistants commissioned by Louis Leakey to explore forms of cohabitation among chimpanzees, orangutans (by Birutė Galdikas), and gorillas (by Dian Fossey). As a paleoanthropologist, he hoped to be able to draw conclusions about the evolution of behavior in the early phylogenetic development of humans from the results of the new research areas thus established - for Goodall, a mission she made her life's work.
But NOW it gets important!)
Philosophical anthropology
Homo sapiens has several other options to choose from: its members possess a consciousness that has evolved to such an extent that they are in principle capable of memorializing and transmitting the events of wars they have experienced, and of controlling their birth rate in wise consideration of the planet's limited surface. No less are they in principle capable of consciously taming their combative impulses themselves, e.g. by agreeing with their enemies on treaties that compensate for the lack of resources (as a frequent result of overpopulation) by peaceful exchange of goods. This capacity is called attention to by primate ethologist Frans de Waal, on the occasion of the very impression of the cruelty of the war-like behavior of our closest relatives and the questions, also raised by the interview, of what we share with them that makes us different. That No Joke ( talk) 01:50, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Great Chimpanzee War and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 28#Great Chimpanzee War until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed, Rosguill talk 16:09, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
The info box is ridiculous, but if it must be there it needs to be cleaned of the anthropomorphising nonsense about commanders and slaves. This is not Animal Farm. Claims that animals have commanders and slaves are extraordinary, and need explicit qualification with high quality sources actually using this trend, not just synth conclusions because that's what it sounds like to the reader of Goodall's book. If you want this extraordinary stuff in there the WP:ONUS it's on you to source it properly. As it stands is just OR. Unbh ( talk) 13:38, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Sorry to re-open this conversation, but Goodall claims that at least one female (Gigi) was involved on two occasions: on the initial attack against Godi she’s reported to have ‘charged back and forth around the melee’ and she actually joined in with the attack on Dé. (Through A Window p.122) It’s not mentioned whether she was around for any of the other skirmishes, but Goodall does mention at the start of the ‘War’ chapter that she joined a group of males attacking a female from one of the other communities. I think this information is significant - Goodall obviously thought it was relevant in her initial recounting of the war. EerieSomething ( talk) 20:42, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
@Applodion thank you so much! EerieSomething ( talk) 21:43, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
This discovery of the violent nature of chimpanzee groups must have been one of the inspirations behind William Boyd's 1990 novel Brazzaville Beach, with the character Hope Clearwater modelled on Jane Goodall. Does anyone know whether Boyd has talked about this? PhilUK ( talk) 11:01, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
There's an audio added to this page that could be vandalism, around midway through it the speaker starts laughing and it seems to be in an over the top accent, however I'm not 100% on it being made on bad faith or not. Kauefields ( talk) 06:51, 1 May 2023 (UTC)