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A fact from German expressionist cinema appeared on Wikipedia's
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On 5 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from German Expressionism to German expressionist cinema. The result of the discussion was moved. |
I haven't been able to parse "The German Expressionist movement was largely expanded down to the isolation Germany was in during World War I." The "was largely expanded down to" seems to be the problem. Can the author rephrase this sentence? Thanks. Knowthhill ( talk) 04:30, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Would this count as a German expressionist film? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.224.133 ( talk) 22:10, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Ralohmann ( talk) 14:55, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
I notice that this page is virtually a copy of Expressionism (film), other than the photo that was added later. I believe that one of these needs to go and be turned into a redirect... though I'm not sure of the procedure for merging them. RcktScientistX 23:11, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
do not merge the articles, i teach a film class, they are two seperate ideas. One was developed in America and the other in Germany. They should be kept seperate eventhough the ideas are seperate.
I recently made a few edits to this entry and created two new sections (German Expressionist Film Today and Ties to Other Media). I made a point not to erase any existing content since I feel it is all informative and accurate. -
Jmodel 10:59, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
This page should be retitled either "German Expressionism (film)" or "German Expressionist Cinema". German Expressionism was a much wider artistic movement, covering painting (Grosz, Dix and so on), poetry (Georg Heym, Trakl, Gottfried Benn), theatre (Toller, early Brecht) and music (Schoenberg, Berg) as well as other art forms. The main page "German Expressionism" should reflect that.-- Folantin 12:21, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed - Expressionist film really came at the tail end of the overall German Expressionist movement. The Expressionist poets, painters, playwrights and directors, had an unfortunate tendency to get killed in the first world war; those that came back alive had a much more cynical style more like Dada.-- Mark, 12 October 2006
This is a good and important point. The term "German Expressionism" is used in respect of a number of loosely connected movements in literary and visual arts - even architecture - and not just in film. Not only does the name of this article need to be changed; there is a real need for an article documenting the broader movement. Ian, 15 Nov 2006.
The introduction notes when it started and who contributed to it, but it never mentions what German expressionism is.
Sure it says filmmakers "developed their own style by using symbolism and mise en scène to add mood and deeper meaning to a movie," but I doubt these aspects are unique to German expressionism. The first section after the introduction contains some aspects of 1920s-1930s German Expressionism, but are these qualities shared by all films in this category? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.115.185 ( talk) 06:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi, please don't rewrite this article to move it away from German Expressionist Film, I think the problem with the article is that it is miss-titled. A quick glance at the catalogue for my local libraries [1] suggests that film is not the medium that most writers associate with "German Expressionism". However I and other contributors have added to the article attempting to show that the movement has been and continues to be, directly and indirectly, very influential- it deserves an article of it's own. While an article on "Expressionism in Film" may be needed I think that the narrower "German Expressionist Film" is a subject that comes up more often. When I first came across this article I had come across quite a few references to German Expressionist film and wanted to find out more, I would have been disappointed if there was no article dealing soley with this topic. I think the best solution to this would be to re-title the article "German Expressionist Film" and create a new page called "German Expressionism" at first consisting of a couple of sentances and a number of links to articles on the various areas of "Expressionism". Sorry for bringing up an editing idea without offering to act on it. My thanks, if this idea is thought to be good by the community, to whoever if anyone acts on it.
-- Pete the pitiless ( talk) 10:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I've changed the first section to reflect that this is an article about film. I hope I've not offended anyone in doing this. As I've said above I think this article is miss titled. However that doesn't change the fact that it is an article about film. Also I thought the short sections about the different areas of expressionism did very little to expand knowledge on those areas and links could do the job better. The article is tidier without them —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pete the pitiless ( talk • contribs) 09:38, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree (hope I am inserting this comment correctly). This is an article about film, not "German Expressionism", which is described in the article titled "Expressionism" - this is an interesting article but when I think of German Expressionism I think of a school of painting. Thomas144 ( talk) 16:04, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
Logical mistake:
In the heading summary, in the very first sentence, it says: "German Expressionism refers to a number of related creative movements in Germany before the First World War that reached a peak in Berlin, during the 1920s." This is obviously false and contradictory, as the First World War ended in 1918 and the Expressionist movement began soon after. Tancrisism ( talk) 07:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I've added the word "beginning" in order to correct the logical error. The wiki artical "Expressionism" gives the beginning of expressionism as before the first world war if you want to dispute this as a date for the start of the wider german expressionist movement please do so but you will need to provide sources. Pete the pitiless ( talk) 13:23, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I know the qualifying word is "arguably", but on a site like Wikipedia it's usually a way of saying "it is better" without stirring the pot. This is a ridiculous statement for one big reason: "German Expressionism" doesn't remotely encapsulate everything about cinema in the 1920s. The Soviets were doing things the Germans weren't doing just as the Americans were doing things the Soviets were not. F.W. Murnau dropped the more obvious trappings of German Expressionism for a subtler cinematic expressionism/modernism and embraced montage and classical Hollywood form in his last films, the superb City Girl and the final masterpiece Tabu (even in his German period he wasn't nearly as ubiquitous with German Expressionism as he's always made out to be - this is true of German cinema in general.) His American students, particularly King Vidor and John Ford, and other contemporary filmmakers from around the world such as Jean Renoir, would continue on in this manner.
The impact of the German cinema of the 1920s if far greater than what's described in "Influence and legacy." Indeed, if Tim Burton and sci-fi movies were the fruit of Murnau's labor, German Expressionism would be absolutely nothing at all. JonasEB ( talk) 09:39, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
It appears that a variety of very good suggestions have been made here over the last 10 years, but there has been little followup. It appears that most of these can be accommodated fairly easily, so I'm going to try to deal with at least some of them, and I hope that others will keep an eye on these changes and comment or re-revise as necessary. Ralohmann ( talk) 14:04, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Yeah I came hoping to learn about German Expressionism in literature.. and found an article dedicated to film. -- Green C 20:41, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
On the German Wiki, they just have "Expressionism (film)", "Expressionism (art)" etc.. each medium has its own article, and then a general article about Expressionism. This is entirely reasonable. They don't even say "German" expressionism which seems like an Anglo-Saxon thing to make it somehow exotic or other. -- Green C 20:43, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
The article says "a number" of expressionist directors went to Hollywood but no names are mentioned. Could someone expand on this point? Ralohmann ( talk) 15:37, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
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I came across some useful sources while editing Faust (1926 film)#Reception. You may be interested in the 7 "canonical" expressionist films. Anonymous-232 ( talk) 06:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
There was extensive discussion going back several years regarding possible refocus of this article, but there seems to have been none recently.
There are now separate articles on Expressionism in its broad sense (covering many different artistic and cultural forms). There are also stand-alone articles on Expressionist dance and Expressionist theater. This article would seem to fit best into this broader group of articles as covering specifically Expressionist cinema without a geographic limit just to Germany.
It seems to me that this is the role this article is actually doing. That is, I don't think the problem is the content, but rather the title. The lead would need a bit of reworking.
Does anyone have views on this? Karl Bildungshunger1965 ( talk) 00:47, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 22:04, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
German Expressionism → German expressionist cinema – To avoid confusion with German Expressionism (the larger movement), which includes more forms of art such as painting, sculpture, printmaking etc, and includes many artists, including some associated with groups such as Die Brücke and Der Blaue Reiter, which have nothing to do with cinema. Di (they-them) ( talk) 05:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 20:44, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
German expressionist cinema article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A fact from German expressionist cinema appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 8 October 2004. The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 5 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from German Expressionism to German expressionist cinema. The result of the discussion was moved. |
I haven't been able to parse "The German Expressionist movement was largely expanded down to the isolation Germany was in during World War I." The "was largely expanded down to" seems to be the problem. Can the author rephrase this sentence? Thanks. Knowthhill ( talk) 04:30, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Would this count as a German expressionist film? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.224.133 ( talk) 22:10, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Ralohmann ( talk) 14:55, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
I notice that this page is virtually a copy of Expressionism (film), other than the photo that was added later. I believe that one of these needs to go and be turned into a redirect... though I'm not sure of the procedure for merging them. RcktScientistX 23:11, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
do not merge the articles, i teach a film class, they are two seperate ideas. One was developed in America and the other in Germany. They should be kept seperate eventhough the ideas are seperate.
I recently made a few edits to this entry and created two new sections (German Expressionist Film Today and Ties to Other Media). I made a point not to erase any existing content since I feel it is all informative and accurate. -
Jmodel 10:59, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
This page should be retitled either "German Expressionism (film)" or "German Expressionist Cinema". German Expressionism was a much wider artistic movement, covering painting (Grosz, Dix and so on), poetry (Georg Heym, Trakl, Gottfried Benn), theatre (Toller, early Brecht) and music (Schoenberg, Berg) as well as other art forms. The main page "German Expressionism" should reflect that.-- Folantin 12:21, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed - Expressionist film really came at the tail end of the overall German Expressionist movement. The Expressionist poets, painters, playwrights and directors, had an unfortunate tendency to get killed in the first world war; those that came back alive had a much more cynical style more like Dada.-- Mark, 12 October 2006
This is a good and important point. The term "German Expressionism" is used in respect of a number of loosely connected movements in literary and visual arts - even architecture - and not just in film. Not only does the name of this article need to be changed; there is a real need for an article documenting the broader movement. Ian, 15 Nov 2006.
The introduction notes when it started and who contributed to it, but it never mentions what German expressionism is.
Sure it says filmmakers "developed their own style by using symbolism and mise en scène to add mood and deeper meaning to a movie," but I doubt these aspects are unique to German expressionism. The first section after the introduction contains some aspects of 1920s-1930s German Expressionism, but are these qualities shared by all films in this category? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.115.185 ( talk) 06:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi, please don't rewrite this article to move it away from German Expressionist Film, I think the problem with the article is that it is miss-titled. A quick glance at the catalogue for my local libraries [1] suggests that film is not the medium that most writers associate with "German Expressionism". However I and other contributors have added to the article attempting to show that the movement has been and continues to be, directly and indirectly, very influential- it deserves an article of it's own. While an article on "Expressionism in Film" may be needed I think that the narrower "German Expressionist Film" is a subject that comes up more often. When I first came across this article I had come across quite a few references to German Expressionist film and wanted to find out more, I would have been disappointed if there was no article dealing soley with this topic. I think the best solution to this would be to re-title the article "German Expressionist Film" and create a new page called "German Expressionism" at first consisting of a couple of sentances and a number of links to articles on the various areas of "Expressionism". Sorry for bringing up an editing idea without offering to act on it. My thanks, if this idea is thought to be good by the community, to whoever if anyone acts on it.
-- Pete the pitiless ( talk) 10:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I've changed the first section to reflect that this is an article about film. I hope I've not offended anyone in doing this. As I've said above I think this article is miss titled. However that doesn't change the fact that it is an article about film. Also I thought the short sections about the different areas of expressionism did very little to expand knowledge on those areas and links could do the job better. The article is tidier without them —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pete the pitiless ( talk • contribs) 09:38, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree (hope I am inserting this comment correctly). This is an article about film, not "German Expressionism", which is described in the article titled "Expressionism" - this is an interesting article but when I think of German Expressionism I think of a school of painting. Thomas144 ( talk) 16:04, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
Logical mistake:
In the heading summary, in the very first sentence, it says: "German Expressionism refers to a number of related creative movements in Germany before the First World War that reached a peak in Berlin, during the 1920s." This is obviously false and contradictory, as the First World War ended in 1918 and the Expressionist movement began soon after. Tancrisism ( talk) 07:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I've added the word "beginning" in order to correct the logical error. The wiki artical "Expressionism" gives the beginning of expressionism as before the first world war if you want to dispute this as a date for the start of the wider german expressionist movement please do so but you will need to provide sources. Pete the pitiless ( talk) 13:23, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I know the qualifying word is "arguably", but on a site like Wikipedia it's usually a way of saying "it is better" without stirring the pot. This is a ridiculous statement for one big reason: "German Expressionism" doesn't remotely encapsulate everything about cinema in the 1920s. The Soviets were doing things the Germans weren't doing just as the Americans were doing things the Soviets were not. F.W. Murnau dropped the more obvious trappings of German Expressionism for a subtler cinematic expressionism/modernism and embraced montage and classical Hollywood form in his last films, the superb City Girl and the final masterpiece Tabu (even in his German period he wasn't nearly as ubiquitous with German Expressionism as he's always made out to be - this is true of German cinema in general.) His American students, particularly King Vidor and John Ford, and other contemporary filmmakers from around the world such as Jean Renoir, would continue on in this manner.
The impact of the German cinema of the 1920s if far greater than what's described in "Influence and legacy." Indeed, if Tim Burton and sci-fi movies were the fruit of Murnau's labor, German Expressionism would be absolutely nothing at all. JonasEB ( talk) 09:39, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
It appears that a variety of very good suggestions have been made here over the last 10 years, but there has been little followup. It appears that most of these can be accommodated fairly easily, so I'm going to try to deal with at least some of them, and I hope that others will keep an eye on these changes and comment or re-revise as necessary. Ralohmann ( talk) 14:04, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Yeah I came hoping to learn about German Expressionism in literature.. and found an article dedicated to film. -- Green C 20:41, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
On the German Wiki, they just have "Expressionism (film)", "Expressionism (art)" etc.. each medium has its own article, and then a general article about Expressionism. This is entirely reasonable. They don't even say "German" expressionism which seems like an Anglo-Saxon thing to make it somehow exotic or other. -- Green C 20:43, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
The article says "a number" of expressionist directors went to Hollywood but no names are mentioned. Could someone expand on this point? Ralohmann ( talk) 15:37, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on German Expressionism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
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http://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-council--services/lc/leicester-city-museums/exhibitions/german-expressionistWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:54, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
I came across some useful sources while editing Faust (1926 film)#Reception. You may be interested in the 7 "canonical" expressionist films. Anonymous-232 ( talk) 06:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
There was extensive discussion going back several years regarding possible refocus of this article, but there seems to have been none recently.
There are now separate articles on Expressionism in its broad sense (covering many different artistic and cultural forms). There are also stand-alone articles on Expressionist dance and Expressionist theater. This article would seem to fit best into this broader group of articles as covering specifically Expressionist cinema without a geographic limit just to Germany.
It seems to me that this is the role this article is actually doing. That is, I don't think the problem is the content, but rather the title. The lead would need a bit of reworking.
Does anyone have views on this? Karl Bildungshunger1965 ( talk) 00:47, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 22:04, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
German Expressionism → German expressionist cinema – To avoid confusion with German Expressionism (the larger movement), which includes more forms of art such as painting, sculpture, printmaking etc, and includes many artists, including some associated with groups such as Die Brücke and Der Blaue Reiter, which have nothing to do with cinema. Di (they-them) ( talk) 05:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 20:44, 12 June 2023 (UTC)