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Plenty of poorly written, unsubstantiated, non-NPOV content. Will start working on it soon. 42.61.51.66 ( talk) 09:16, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
Does it really need so many images? Almost every major building / monument / street furniture / event seems to be covered, let alone the multiple panorama shots, near-dupliacte maps, etc. I mean, the article is surely sightly (!) over-detailed in any case, but cf. WP:NOTGALLERY, I'd question how many of these actually 'increase readers' understanding of the article's subject matter'. WP:IG re. 'shoe-horning' is probably relevant too. Cheers, — O Fortuna semper crescis, aut decrescis 10:43, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Can User:Vnonymous explain why this revert was necessary? Is there anything wrong with adding a former street name that was relevant to the landmark that the thumbnail displays, especially for a street which name has been completely recontextualized? - 210.195.51.173 ( talk) 17:28, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
Can this user @ LoveFromBJM: justify the addition of the Hokkien name of George Town into this article's infobox? The articles on other Malaysian cities, such as Kuala Lumpur, Kuching, Ipoh, Johor Bahru, etc., only have one entry for Chinese transliterations. Thus, this particular edit could potentially go against WP:CONSISTENCY and WP:CONS.
According to WP:CONSISTENCY, alternative names may be used in article text when context dictates that they are more appropriate than the name used as the title of the article. Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources.
Note that the Hokkien term Pho-té means downtown, so it is a rather generic term that could have been used in any other city such as Kuala Lumpur to refer to the city centre.
Going by his logic that the Hokkien name of George Town should be added into the infobox by virtue of it being spoken in George Town, then why do the articles for other cities where the Hokkiens formed a substantial part of the population, such as Taipei, Xiamen, Fuzhou or Singapore, not feature a Hokkien transliteration in their infoboxes? Similarly, why is there not a Cantonese transliteration in the infoboxes of Cantonese-majority cities like Kuala Lumpur? I believe this is a point worth considering, as there should be a consistency in the way a city article is written. Vnonymous ( talk) 16:06, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Reply: @ Vnonymous: Thanks, I added the name after seeing the name is written in its Chinese-language Wikipedia version. Sorry that I couldn't provide any sources. I think the addition is important because Penang Hokkien is undergoing a revitalization. Adding the name will mark significance, just like the street names in George Town, where most of the Written Chinese street names comes from Penang Hokkien. The articles mentioned like: Taipei, Xiamen, Fuzhou has their Hokkien or Hokchiu/Fuzhou names placed seperately in an Infobox Chinese name below the infobox. Although the downtown word is used to refer to Kuala Lumpur also, the written name comes from Cantonese and is used in Cantonese, so it is okay to just add the Cantonese pronounciation without adding the word 'downtown'.
I don't know the situation on Penang Hokkien, maybe the written Chinese name is seldom used in Hokkien conversation, so the 'downtown' name becomes a unique name in Penang Hokkien. There are some articles which have its Hokkien name written in infobox, as in: Tiong Bahru, Bukit Merah. But in a different situation, the Hokkien and Written Chinese name has the same Chinese character, it only needs to add Hokkien pronouciation, which indeed will not cause confusion.
Just a question: do you have Chinese language background? If you have, maybe you can understand the situation better. If you don't, you can just tell me, I will explain more. I think its okay to not put the downtown name in English Wikipedia as long as it stays in the Chinese version.
At the end, I support your choices, I am not a Penang native and I am not from the Northern Region either (I am from Johor), I noticed that you are the major contributor on the Penang's articles, so you know better. (winks) - from User:LoveFromBJM 17:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:22, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this is established as a real problem (or not), but there has been some confusion in population data between pages of cities, states and metropolitan areas. Should we update the population data based on the figures provided by the Malaysian Census, where its website, e-Census, has clearly tabled population data for each year from 2016 until the end of 2019.
e-Census's published visualized data.
My main concern happens to be the use of the figure "1.783 million people" for the page of the state of Penang, which I seriously believe is the data posted by the Department of Statistics (via e-Census) in 2019. However, for other pages, like this page for instance, the data still lists the figure published in the 2010 Census, which was "708,127 people". Current statistics for the city in 2019 is already at 817.2 thousand people, which is a huge difference.
Should we use the statistics published online by the Census, or we stick to the official 2010 Census? Because if we stick on the latter, that means the page for the state must revert back to the 2010 data if standardization is required. Or else, we might need to update the figures in all related pages given by the Department of Statistics. Besides, the figure is already 11 years old, which completely makes that data redundant for a long, long time.
Note: the next Census will be published in around 45 days, which means the 2020 Census will be here soon.
( PenangLion ( talk) 16:41, 3 October 2021 (UTC))
Corncaker ( talk) 02:36, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Largest settlement | Local government | Census figures | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
2022 | 2020 | 2010 | ||
George Town | Penang Island City Council | 791,200 | 794,313 | 708,127 |
Seberang Perai | Seberang Perai City Council | 947,400 | 946,092 | 818,097 |
Sungai Petani | Sungai Petani Municipal Council | 546,800 | 545,053 | 443,488 |
Kulim | Kulim Municipal Council | 341,400 | 319,056 | 281,248 |
Parit Buntar | Kerian District Council | 166,400 | 166,352 | 120,192 |
Bandar Baharu | Bandar Baharu District Council | 44,500 | 44,412 | 41,659 |
Total | 2,837,700 | 2,815,278 | 2,412,811 |
Its been known that Iskandar Malaysia has underwent a major expansion in size in February 2019.
[1]
Iskandar Malaysia's official boundaries | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Largest settlement | Land
area |
Census figures | ||
2020 | 2010 | |||
Johor Bahru | 1,064 | 858,118 | 497,097 | |
Iskandar Puteri | 575,977 | 529,074 | ||
Pasir Gudang | 312,437 | 46,571 | ||
Kulai | 753 | 294,156 | 234,532 | |
Pontian (4 mukims) | Pekan Nanas | u/k | 1,003 | u/k |
Jeram Batu | u/k | 32,457 | u/k | |
Serkat | u/k | 9,268 | u/k | |
Sungai Karang | u/k | 2,130 | u/k | |
Total | 2,217 | 2,085,546 | 1,307,274 |
Iskandar Malaysia's supposed 2019 expansion | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Largest settlement | Land
area |
Census figures | ||
2020 | 2010 | |||
Johor Bahru | 1,064 | 858,118 | 497,097 | |
Iskandar Puteri | 575,977 | 529,074 | ||
Pasir Gudang | 312,437 | 46,571 | ||
Kulai | 753 | 294,156 | 234,532 | |
Simpang Renggam | ~1,244 | 88,047 | u/k | |
Pengerang | 1,288 | 91,626 | u/k | |
Pontian (4 mukims) | Pekan Nanas | u/k | 1,003 | u/k |
Jeram Batu | u/k | 32,457 | u/k | |
Serkat | u/k | 9,268 | u/k | |
Sungai Karang | u/k | 2,130 | u/k | |
Total | 4,749 | 2,265,219 | 1,307,274 |
But neither conditions would make Johor Bahru's metropolitan area higher than George Town's. Even if the entire Pontian and Kluang district is included, it won't surpass 2.6 million. Johor Bahru's metropolitan area wouldn't even exist even if SIJORI is a metropolitan area, because that would be under Singapore rather than Malaysia's, thereby making the inclusion of JB as a separate metropolitan area completely redundant. ( gavre (al. PenangLion) ( talk) 05:50, 13 June 2023 (UTC))
References
Per a consensus from the discussion at WT:GAN#Penang and George Town, Penang was promoted to GA via deceptive sockpuppetry, the GA review by Semi-auto, a sockpuppet of nominator Vnonymous, has been voided, and the GA status revoked. Since there is no way of directly reflecting this in Article history, I have noted it as a GA reassessment resulting in a delisting, as the closest approximation of what was done, and linking to this section so there is a trail that can be followed explaining what happened and why the action was taken.
The article can always be nominated in future to be a GA using the normal process. For now, however, its GA status is revoked. BlueMoonset ( talk) 15:23, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
Given that there are quite the handful of places named Georgetown or George Town, I think we should add the "other uses" template linking to Georgetown. Just a suggestion. HelloTHERE123456 ( talk) 00:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
George Town, Penang article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
George Town, Penang is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article is currently on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This
level-5 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Other talk page banners | |||||||
|
Plenty of poorly written, unsubstantiated, non-NPOV content. Will start working on it soon. 42.61.51.66 ( talk) 09:16, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
Does it really need so many images? Almost every major building / monument / street furniture / event seems to be covered, let alone the multiple panorama shots, near-dupliacte maps, etc. I mean, the article is surely sightly (!) over-detailed in any case, but cf. WP:NOTGALLERY, I'd question how many of these actually 'increase readers' understanding of the article's subject matter'. WP:IG re. 'shoe-horning' is probably relevant too. Cheers, — O Fortuna semper crescis, aut decrescis 10:43, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Can User:Vnonymous explain why this revert was necessary? Is there anything wrong with adding a former street name that was relevant to the landmark that the thumbnail displays, especially for a street which name has been completely recontextualized? - 210.195.51.173 ( talk) 17:28, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
Can this user @ LoveFromBJM: justify the addition of the Hokkien name of George Town into this article's infobox? The articles on other Malaysian cities, such as Kuala Lumpur, Kuching, Ipoh, Johor Bahru, etc., only have one entry for Chinese transliterations. Thus, this particular edit could potentially go against WP:CONSISTENCY and WP:CONS.
According to WP:CONSISTENCY, alternative names may be used in article text when context dictates that they are more appropriate than the name used as the title of the article. Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources.
Note that the Hokkien term Pho-té means downtown, so it is a rather generic term that could have been used in any other city such as Kuala Lumpur to refer to the city centre.
Going by his logic that the Hokkien name of George Town should be added into the infobox by virtue of it being spoken in George Town, then why do the articles for other cities where the Hokkiens formed a substantial part of the population, such as Taipei, Xiamen, Fuzhou or Singapore, not feature a Hokkien transliteration in their infoboxes? Similarly, why is there not a Cantonese transliteration in the infoboxes of Cantonese-majority cities like Kuala Lumpur? I believe this is a point worth considering, as there should be a consistency in the way a city article is written. Vnonymous ( talk) 16:06, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Reply: @ Vnonymous: Thanks, I added the name after seeing the name is written in its Chinese-language Wikipedia version. Sorry that I couldn't provide any sources. I think the addition is important because Penang Hokkien is undergoing a revitalization. Adding the name will mark significance, just like the street names in George Town, where most of the Written Chinese street names comes from Penang Hokkien. The articles mentioned like: Taipei, Xiamen, Fuzhou has their Hokkien or Hokchiu/Fuzhou names placed seperately in an Infobox Chinese name below the infobox. Although the downtown word is used to refer to Kuala Lumpur also, the written name comes from Cantonese and is used in Cantonese, so it is okay to just add the Cantonese pronounciation without adding the word 'downtown'.
I don't know the situation on Penang Hokkien, maybe the written Chinese name is seldom used in Hokkien conversation, so the 'downtown' name becomes a unique name in Penang Hokkien. There are some articles which have its Hokkien name written in infobox, as in: Tiong Bahru, Bukit Merah. But in a different situation, the Hokkien and Written Chinese name has the same Chinese character, it only needs to add Hokkien pronouciation, which indeed will not cause confusion.
Just a question: do you have Chinese language background? If you have, maybe you can understand the situation better. If you don't, you can just tell me, I will explain more. I think its okay to not put the downtown name in English Wikipedia as long as it stays in the Chinese version.
At the end, I support your choices, I am not a Penang native and I am not from the Northern Region either (I am from Johor), I noticed that you are the major contributor on the Penang's articles, so you know better. (winks) - from User:LoveFromBJM 17:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:22, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this is established as a real problem (or not), but there has been some confusion in population data between pages of cities, states and metropolitan areas. Should we update the population data based on the figures provided by the Malaysian Census, where its website, e-Census, has clearly tabled population data for each year from 2016 until the end of 2019.
e-Census's published visualized data.
My main concern happens to be the use of the figure "1.783 million people" for the page of the state of Penang, which I seriously believe is the data posted by the Department of Statistics (via e-Census) in 2019. However, for other pages, like this page for instance, the data still lists the figure published in the 2010 Census, which was "708,127 people". Current statistics for the city in 2019 is already at 817.2 thousand people, which is a huge difference.
Should we use the statistics published online by the Census, or we stick to the official 2010 Census? Because if we stick on the latter, that means the page for the state must revert back to the 2010 data if standardization is required. Or else, we might need to update the figures in all related pages given by the Department of Statistics. Besides, the figure is already 11 years old, which completely makes that data redundant for a long, long time.
Note: the next Census will be published in around 45 days, which means the 2020 Census will be here soon.
( PenangLion ( talk) 16:41, 3 October 2021 (UTC))
Corncaker ( talk) 02:36, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Largest settlement | Local government | Census figures | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
2022 | 2020 | 2010 | ||
George Town | Penang Island City Council | 791,200 | 794,313 | 708,127 |
Seberang Perai | Seberang Perai City Council | 947,400 | 946,092 | 818,097 |
Sungai Petani | Sungai Petani Municipal Council | 546,800 | 545,053 | 443,488 |
Kulim | Kulim Municipal Council | 341,400 | 319,056 | 281,248 |
Parit Buntar | Kerian District Council | 166,400 | 166,352 | 120,192 |
Bandar Baharu | Bandar Baharu District Council | 44,500 | 44,412 | 41,659 |
Total | 2,837,700 | 2,815,278 | 2,412,811 |
Its been known that Iskandar Malaysia has underwent a major expansion in size in February 2019.
[1]
Iskandar Malaysia's official boundaries | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Largest settlement | Land
area |
Census figures | ||
2020 | 2010 | |||
Johor Bahru | 1,064 | 858,118 | 497,097 | |
Iskandar Puteri | 575,977 | 529,074 | ||
Pasir Gudang | 312,437 | 46,571 | ||
Kulai | 753 | 294,156 | 234,532 | |
Pontian (4 mukims) | Pekan Nanas | u/k | 1,003 | u/k |
Jeram Batu | u/k | 32,457 | u/k | |
Serkat | u/k | 9,268 | u/k | |
Sungai Karang | u/k | 2,130 | u/k | |
Total | 2,217 | 2,085,546 | 1,307,274 |
Iskandar Malaysia's supposed 2019 expansion | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Largest settlement | Land
area |
Census figures | ||
2020 | 2010 | |||
Johor Bahru | 1,064 | 858,118 | 497,097 | |
Iskandar Puteri | 575,977 | 529,074 | ||
Pasir Gudang | 312,437 | 46,571 | ||
Kulai | 753 | 294,156 | 234,532 | |
Simpang Renggam | ~1,244 | 88,047 | u/k | |
Pengerang | 1,288 | 91,626 | u/k | |
Pontian (4 mukims) | Pekan Nanas | u/k | 1,003 | u/k |
Jeram Batu | u/k | 32,457 | u/k | |
Serkat | u/k | 9,268 | u/k | |
Sungai Karang | u/k | 2,130 | u/k | |
Total | 4,749 | 2,265,219 | 1,307,274 |
But neither conditions would make Johor Bahru's metropolitan area higher than George Town's. Even if the entire Pontian and Kluang district is included, it won't surpass 2.6 million. Johor Bahru's metropolitan area wouldn't even exist even if SIJORI is a metropolitan area, because that would be under Singapore rather than Malaysia's, thereby making the inclusion of JB as a separate metropolitan area completely redundant. ( gavre (al. PenangLion) ( talk) 05:50, 13 June 2023 (UTC))
References
Per a consensus from the discussion at WT:GAN#Penang and George Town, Penang was promoted to GA via deceptive sockpuppetry, the GA review by Semi-auto, a sockpuppet of nominator Vnonymous, has been voided, and the GA status revoked. Since there is no way of directly reflecting this in Article history, I have noted it as a GA reassessment resulting in a delisting, as the closest approximation of what was done, and linking to this section so there is a trail that can be followed explaining what happened and why the action was taken.
The article can always be nominated in future to be a GA using the normal process. For now, however, its GA status is revoked. BlueMoonset ( talk) 15:23, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
Given that there are quite the handful of places named Georgetown or George Town, I think we should add the "other uses" template linking to Georgetown. Just a suggestion. HelloTHERE123456 ( talk) 00:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)