![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Please clarify the difference between Geomorphology and Structural geology (in both articles). Respectively, make an order with category:Geomorphology vs. category:Structural geology: brief descriptions and membership. mikka (t) 18:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
I am afraid I have to restore links between these two categories, since some things are obviously mixed across these two, until "someday someone..." . For example, I fail to see why Graben was in category:Structural geology but not in category:Landforms (only yesterday I created a new Category:Depressions and put Graben into it.). mikka (t) 01:44, 1 October 2005 (UTC) Let's see:
I read that means that Str Geo is a subset of GeoMorf, a study of some particular ways of landforming. Or, quite probably, the definitions come from different schools of geology that don't quite match. This happens sometimes here in wikipedia.
So IMO the cross-links should sit here as a reminder that something is still out of nice order. mikka (t) 01:53, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes I did. And I provided a counter-agrument you apparently ignored. You are saying "not subset". I am saying "yes, subset". Read in my qoutations above: "...and the processes that shape them". Processes in rocks, isn't it the definition of StruGeo?
Until someone clearly defines the separation of the categories, people will assign articles to them quite randomly. Therefore a cross-link is useful.
Yes, everything is interrelated: wind and rock. But some things are not only interrelated, but also intermixed. A natural solution would be to put some articles inwo both cats. But until the "owners" of category:Geology will take the categorization under close scrutiny, people will throw articles into one cat or another pretty much at random.
I find this cross-link useful for laymen like me. Until a week ago I was not aware of Depression (geology). I noticed the whole category missing when I started systematically filling category:Mountain ranges of the Russian Federation and found that I have no place to put such things as Kuznetsk Depression. Until now no one bothered to figure out what to do with Geologic formation vs. Rock formation. Only an ignorant me drew the difference between Rock formation and Formation of rocks.
I am not bragging how smart I am. I am trying to say that geology is a rather neglected discipline here. (I suspect not only it; sexology, politics, videogames and vanity pages constitute, like, 70% of activity.) Therefore at this moment any additional "See also" is only helpful. mikka (t) 03:30, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
If knowledgeable WP editors are unsure of the distinctions, think how confused the average reader will be! This is an especially good example of how cross-links, both in articles and categories, can clarify the situation for everybody all round. Stan 13:10, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
OK. Structural geology deals with the imposed texture of a rock, like
Vsmith said, at all scales. Including chunks of rocks euphemistically called 'hand specimens', and on the microscopic scale. Geomorphology is more closely aligned to geography than structural geology.
For instance, can the roundness of a mountain tell you whether it is a fold, on the side of a fault, or whether it was created during an
orogeny some 1600 million years ago or by a different one 500 million years ago which affected the rocks which the first one formed? No. You need structural geology for that.
Can geomorphology tell you whether one block of rock moved up relative to another, whether the fault which separates them is a thrust or a normal fault, whether the mountain will collapse on your head from
geotechnical instability? No.
Geomorphology describes landforms and erosion and shallow, surficial effects. It describes events which are active now and are passive geologically. It has virtually no predictive abilities I can think of except, perhaps, with shallow groundwater, soil types and the like, and it cannot be analyzed for anything excet to provide structural geological information, example, "there might be a fault there looking at the lineations on this photo" or similar.
Structural geology, the article, has been excessively poorly written, (not my fault, ba-da-boom) and is fairly much incomprehensible even to me. And I know enough about structural geology to qualifty as 'semi-expert'. Or not a geomorphologist in the very least. So, hopefully, when I give it a douche of sensibility it will be fairly clear that, while related in the way chickens and eggs are, structural geology is much, much, much more than geomorphology.
Rolinator
15:40, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
He actually was the one to RUIN geomorphology as we know it, so why does this article paint him so neutrally?
Geomorphology is the study of the earth's landforms. William Morris Davis founded this subfield of geography. Though at his time the traditional idea of the development of landforms was through the great biblical flood, Davis and others began to believe that other factors were responsible for shaping the earth.
Davis developed a theory of landform creation and erosion, which he called the "geographical cycle." This theory is more commonly known as the "cycle of erosion," or more properly, the "geomorphic cycle." His theory explained that mountains and landforms are created, mature, and then become old.
He explained that the cycle begins with the uplift of mountains. Rivers and streams begin to create V-shaped valleys among the mountains (the stage called "youth"). During this first stage, the relief is steepest and most illregular. Over time, the streams are able to carve wider valleys ("maturity") and then begin to meander, leaving only gently rolling hills ("old age"). Finally, all that is left is a flat, level plain at the lowest elevation possible (called the "base level.") This plain was called by Davis a "peneplain," which means "almost a plain" for a plain is actually a completely flat surface). Then, "rejuvenation" occurs and there is another uplift of mountains and the cycle continues.
Though Davis' theory is not entirely accurate, it was quite revolutionary and outstanding at its time and helped to modernize physical geography and create the field of geomorphology. The real world is not quite as orderly as Davis' cycles and certainly erosion occurs during the uplift process. However, Davis' message was communicated quite well to other scientists through the excellent sketches and illustrations that were included in Davis' publications.
In all, Davis published over 500 works though he never earned his Ph.D. Davis was certainly one of the greatest academic geographers of the century. He is not only responsible for that which he accomplished during his lifetime, but also for the outstanding work done across geography by his disciples. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.238.132.23 ( talk) 04:28, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I've been meaning to make some modifications to this page for some time, so I finally bit the bullet and went ahead and did it. I don't think I've removed anything, this has mainly been expanding and restructuring to give the article a slightly more consistent tone.
I'd be interested to know what people think. I had written a fairly extensive rationale for what I'd done, but I managed to close the window before saving, and it's now 1.30 in the morning, so I'll try to revisit this talk page ASAP to clarify!
Hope this is of some use. DanHobley ( talk) 00:33, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I've now done a bit more tweaking in the processes section; I think this is now a bit more "modern" in style. I've got some references in there now too. Couple of things still bugging me though:
1. Weathering. I reckon a lot of people visiting this page will be vaguely familiar with the idea of weathering, so I think it could really do with a bit more prominence, but it certainly shouldn't be in the list of processes as it was before. As it is now is a bit of a halfway house I think, but it'll do for now? It's always felt to me like a pretty unhelpful word anyway; it's a geography-style classifying term, and doesn't have any interpretative power. If we mean chemical breakdown of surfaces, we should say so, and there's plenty of more specific ways of talking about what you might loosely term "physical weathering". For instance, is fluvial abrasion a weathering process? I think not, but I suspect it would be considered so under the formal definition...
2. The taxonomy section. This is good stuff, but I'm not familiar with this scheme, and I wouldn't say it's of particularly great importance to the grand overview of geomorphology (though of course the scale dependency it addresses very much is). I suspect this section might want to be rewritten and expanded without the formal taxonomy and renamed something like "Importance of scale", with the formal orders hived off into their own sub-page people can go through to if they want. It's just a bit of a weak finish for me. I'm leaving it for now, but might have it as a future recommendation?
DanHobley ( talk) 14:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I am not a big fan of the geology infobox which appeared recently. It's cluttering the article very badly. Anyone object if I remove it?
Might be good to replace it with a strap rather than a box, but I don't know if such a thing exists. DanHobley ( talk) 01:38, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
I changed the image because arches are not discussed in the article, and nothing in their article raises the issue of geomorphology, and they are not a common topic in introductory texts, the couple I have, on geomorphology, from which I hoped to clarify the reason for including this image. From editing Wikipedia for the last month or so, I often wind up confused as to why a picture belongs in the article, particularly in the lead. So, why does this one belong in the lead of this article?
How about this one? File:Ferguson-slide.jpg| Ferguson Slide on California State Route 140 in June 2006
MicroPaLeo ( talk) 18:49, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
There was a bunch of uncited material in the historical section (which I think I might have put there in the first place. Oops). I found an ideal ref to support this section (Oldroyd & Grapes, in a GSA Special Pub), was gratified to find my remembering of most of this stuff was fairly accurate, and added the supporting refs as needed. Also had some nice stuff about the Davis/Penck brouhaha. The material about physiography remains uncited. Also, of our list of early modern geomorphologists, O&G don't talk explicitly about several of these guys, especially the Europeans. We need another source for them: Bagnold, Einstein, Ahnert, John Hack, Luna Leopold, Shields, Maddock (note they should stay!)
DanHobley (
talk)
20:55, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
What is it called to study the "shapes" of ancient geological features such as depositional environments and structures using geophysical techniques like 3D reflection seismology? Does it qualify as geomorphology? Hamsterlopithecus ( talk) 06:52, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Page has a newly acquired globalize tag at its top. I disagree that this is the case. 3rd opinions very welcome here. Can anyone point out to me where this gets US-centric? DanHobley ( talk) 22:52, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Geomorphology. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:08, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
I did a literature search for the source for the taxonomy in the Scales section. I can't find it, and neither could whoever put the citation needed tag on. I'm removing the section entirely. DanHobley ( talk) 11:43, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Impact of river rejuvenation on economy 102.250.0.5 ( talk) 08:43, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
how do they erupt 197.233.137.0 ( talk) 06:30, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Please clarify the difference between Geomorphology and Structural geology (in both articles). Respectively, make an order with category:Geomorphology vs. category:Structural geology: brief descriptions and membership. mikka (t) 18:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
I am afraid I have to restore links between these two categories, since some things are obviously mixed across these two, until "someday someone..." . For example, I fail to see why Graben was in category:Structural geology but not in category:Landforms (only yesterday I created a new Category:Depressions and put Graben into it.). mikka (t) 01:44, 1 October 2005 (UTC) Let's see:
I read that means that Str Geo is a subset of GeoMorf, a study of some particular ways of landforming. Or, quite probably, the definitions come from different schools of geology that don't quite match. This happens sometimes here in wikipedia.
So IMO the cross-links should sit here as a reminder that something is still out of nice order. mikka (t) 01:53, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes I did. And I provided a counter-agrument you apparently ignored. You are saying "not subset". I am saying "yes, subset". Read in my qoutations above: "...and the processes that shape them". Processes in rocks, isn't it the definition of StruGeo?
Until someone clearly defines the separation of the categories, people will assign articles to them quite randomly. Therefore a cross-link is useful.
Yes, everything is interrelated: wind and rock. But some things are not only interrelated, but also intermixed. A natural solution would be to put some articles inwo both cats. But until the "owners" of category:Geology will take the categorization under close scrutiny, people will throw articles into one cat or another pretty much at random.
I find this cross-link useful for laymen like me. Until a week ago I was not aware of Depression (geology). I noticed the whole category missing when I started systematically filling category:Mountain ranges of the Russian Federation and found that I have no place to put such things as Kuznetsk Depression. Until now no one bothered to figure out what to do with Geologic formation vs. Rock formation. Only an ignorant me drew the difference between Rock formation and Formation of rocks.
I am not bragging how smart I am. I am trying to say that geology is a rather neglected discipline here. (I suspect not only it; sexology, politics, videogames and vanity pages constitute, like, 70% of activity.) Therefore at this moment any additional "See also" is only helpful. mikka (t) 03:30, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
If knowledgeable WP editors are unsure of the distinctions, think how confused the average reader will be! This is an especially good example of how cross-links, both in articles and categories, can clarify the situation for everybody all round. Stan 13:10, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
OK. Structural geology deals with the imposed texture of a rock, like
Vsmith said, at all scales. Including chunks of rocks euphemistically called 'hand specimens', and on the microscopic scale. Geomorphology is more closely aligned to geography than structural geology.
For instance, can the roundness of a mountain tell you whether it is a fold, on the side of a fault, or whether it was created during an
orogeny some 1600 million years ago or by a different one 500 million years ago which affected the rocks which the first one formed? No. You need structural geology for that.
Can geomorphology tell you whether one block of rock moved up relative to another, whether the fault which separates them is a thrust or a normal fault, whether the mountain will collapse on your head from
geotechnical instability? No.
Geomorphology describes landforms and erosion and shallow, surficial effects. It describes events which are active now and are passive geologically. It has virtually no predictive abilities I can think of except, perhaps, with shallow groundwater, soil types and the like, and it cannot be analyzed for anything excet to provide structural geological information, example, "there might be a fault there looking at the lineations on this photo" or similar.
Structural geology, the article, has been excessively poorly written, (not my fault, ba-da-boom) and is fairly much incomprehensible even to me. And I know enough about structural geology to qualifty as 'semi-expert'. Or not a geomorphologist in the very least. So, hopefully, when I give it a douche of sensibility it will be fairly clear that, while related in the way chickens and eggs are, structural geology is much, much, much more than geomorphology.
Rolinator
15:40, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
He actually was the one to RUIN geomorphology as we know it, so why does this article paint him so neutrally?
Geomorphology is the study of the earth's landforms. William Morris Davis founded this subfield of geography. Though at his time the traditional idea of the development of landforms was through the great biblical flood, Davis and others began to believe that other factors were responsible for shaping the earth.
Davis developed a theory of landform creation and erosion, which he called the "geographical cycle." This theory is more commonly known as the "cycle of erosion," or more properly, the "geomorphic cycle." His theory explained that mountains and landforms are created, mature, and then become old.
He explained that the cycle begins with the uplift of mountains. Rivers and streams begin to create V-shaped valleys among the mountains (the stage called "youth"). During this first stage, the relief is steepest and most illregular. Over time, the streams are able to carve wider valleys ("maturity") and then begin to meander, leaving only gently rolling hills ("old age"). Finally, all that is left is a flat, level plain at the lowest elevation possible (called the "base level.") This plain was called by Davis a "peneplain," which means "almost a plain" for a plain is actually a completely flat surface). Then, "rejuvenation" occurs and there is another uplift of mountains and the cycle continues.
Though Davis' theory is not entirely accurate, it was quite revolutionary and outstanding at its time and helped to modernize physical geography and create the field of geomorphology. The real world is not quite as orderly as Davis' cycles and certainly erosion occurs during the uplift process. However, Davis' message was communicated quite well to other scientists through the excellent sketches and illustrations that were included in Davis' publications.
In all, Davis published over 500 works though he never earned his Ph.D. Davis was certainly one of the greatest academic geographers of the century. He is not only responsible for that which he accomplished during his lifetime, but also for the outstanding work done across geography by his disciples. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.238.132.23 ( talk) 04:28, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I've been meaning to make some modifications to this page for some time, so I finally bit the bullet and went ahead and did it. I don't think I've removed anything, this has mainly been expanding and restructuring to give the article a slightly more consistent tone.
I'd be interested to know what people think. I had written a fairly extensive rationale for what I'd done, but I managed to close the window before saving, and it's now 1.30 in the morning, so I'll try to revisit this talk page ASAP to clarify!
Hope this is of some use. DanHobley ( talk) 00:33, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I've now done a bit more tweaking in the processes section; I think this is now a bit more "modern" in style. I've got some references in there now too. Couple of things still bugging me though:
1. Weathering. I reckon a lot of people visiting this page will be vaguely familiar with the idea of weathering, so I think it could really do with a bit more prominence, but it certainly shouldn't be in the list of processes as it was before. As it is now is a bit of a halfway house I think, but it'll do for now? It's always felt to me like a pretty unhelpful word anyway; it's a geography-style classifying term, and doesn't have any interpretative power. If we mean chemical breakdown of surfaces, we should say so, and there's plenty of more specific ways of talking about what you might loosely term "physical weathering". For instance, is fluvial abrasion a weathering process? I think not, but I suspect it would be considered so under the formal definition...
2. The taxonomy section. This is good stuff, but I'm not familiar with this scheme, and I wouldn't say it's of particularly great importance to the grand overview of geomorphology (though of course the scale dependency it addresses very much is). I suspect this section might want to be rewritten and expanded without the formal taxonomy and renamed something like "Importance of scale", with the formal orders hived off into their own sub-page people can go through to if they want. It's just a bit of a weak finish for me. I'm leaving it for now, but might have it as a future recommendation?
DanHobley ( talk) 14:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I am not a big fan of the geology infobox which appeared recently. It's cluttering the article very badly. Anyone object if I remove it?
Might be good to replace it with a strap rather than a box, but I don't know if such a thing exists. DanHobley ( talk) 01:38, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
I changed the image because arches are not discussed in the article, and nothing in their article raises the issue of geomorphology, and they are not a common topic in introductory texts, the couple I have, on geomorphology, from which I hoped to clarify the reason for including this image. From editing Wikipedia for the last month or so, I often wind up confused as to why a picture belongs in the article, particularly in the lead. So, why does this one belong in the lead of this article?
How about this one? File:Ferguson-slide.jpg| Ferguson Slide on California State Route 140 in June 2006
MicroPaLeo ( talk) 18:49, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
There was a bunch of uncited material in the historical section (which I think I might have put there in the first place. Oops). I found an ideal ref to support this section (Oldroyd & Grapes, in a GSA Special Pub), was gratified to find my remembering of most of this stuff was fairly accurate, and added the supporting refs as needed. Also had some nice stuff about the Davis/Penck brouhaha. The material about physiography remains uncited. Also, of our list of early modern geomorphologists, O&G don't talk explicitly about several of these guys, especially the Europeans. We need another source for them: Bagnold, Einstein, Ahnert, John Hack, Luna Leopold, Shields, Maddock (note they should stay!)
DanHobley (
talk)
20:55, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
What is it called to study the "shapes" of ancient geological features such as depositional environments and structures using geophysical techniques like 3D reflection seismology? Does it qualify as geomorphology? Hamsterlopithecus ( talk) 06:52, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Page has a newly acquired globalize tag at its top. I disagree that this is the case. 3rd opinions very welcome here. Can anyone point out to me where this gets US-centric? DanHobley ( talk) 22:52, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Geomorphology. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:08, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
I did a literature search for the source for the taxonomy in the Scales section. I can't find it, and neither could whoever put the citation needed tag on. I'm removing the section entirely. DanHobley ( talk) 11:43, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Impact of river rejuvenation on economy 102.250.0.5 ( talk) 08:43, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
how do they erupt 197.233.137.0 ( talk) 06:30, 13 November 2022 (UTC)