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could somehow genii loci be linked to this. Which term is more commonly known as to link it better?
What's the proper capitalization of the term? The article uses Genius Loci, Genius loci, and genius loci. Surely only one should be used consistently. :) - Phoenixrod 22:01, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Isn't the phrase actually Genus Loci? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.17.130.184 ( talk) 16:31, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
Genius is in the Latin nominative case, loci is in the genitive case ("of the place"), similar to modus operandi or corpus delicti. What I'd like to know is what is the accepted pronunciation, since the accurate Latin pronunciation (GAY-nee-us LO-kee) sounds stilted in conversation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hfitz ( talk • contribs) 16:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
I've added a chunk of text discussing the genius loci as a monster in high fantasy settings, such as DND. I had to do some paraphrasing so that I didn't overwhelm the original article. Between the fact that I can't find anything about it more official than my own analysis here and my lack of citation expertise in situations like this, I've left it completely uncited, with a list of good sources here.
I'm sorry for putting what is technically "original research" here, but we Tolkien geeks tend not to write in-depth, thoroughly researched papers about this sort of stuff. We've generally all read the original material, and can relate everything necessary to transfer a concept like this in two or three sentences. That doesn't provide anything useful for an encyclopedia entry, though, so there isn't really anything to cite.
These were my primary sources while writing this, but I've encountered genius loci in a number of other works (mostly short stories by various authors, although they're occasionally the monster of the week in epic fantasy novels).
Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 epic level handbook
Turn Coat: book 11 of the Dresden Files
Many high fantasy settings that use a more literal hot-and-cold-running-mana system, as described in Niven's works, also sometimes feature intelligent mana pools. These share many similarities with genius loci even though they're not named as such. I haven't found any really good similar term/page for these, and I tend to conflate them anyway, so I've stuck a reference to intelligent mana pools in there.
71.112.89.139 ( talk) 08:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The recent addition of a disambiguation seems unnecessary. Opinions?-- Mavigogun ( talk) 09:20, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Removed after consultation with Disambiguation Guidelines. Mavigogun ( talk) 09:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
The merge tag has been added, but without a rational. I am for. The concepts differ but, in practice, when people write now of 'Genius loci' they mean its atmosphere rather than literal Spirits. -- Duncan ( talk) 16:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I vote for. I did a dissertation in Romantic poetry (Wordsworth), and in literary criticism genius loci and "spirit of place" are very common and interchangeable. They refer to the same concepts. -- Margin1522 ( talk) 06:35, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I vote "against". I have graduate degrees in anthropology and landscape architecture (historic) and certainly understand the contemporary impetus to merge the concepts. Although in design and modern western culture, the terms have merged and are interchangeable, there are still many indigenous cultures who retain the older usage of a place-spirit. In addition, neopaganism retains the older usage and meaning as well, as in Asatru which has landvaettir, land spirits. I am also Native American and definitely still believe in and have experienced literal Spirits that protect and inhabit specific springs, mountains, and trees. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.44.149.255 ( talk) 13:14, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I vote against, quite emphatically. I also think there's not enough information in this article about the specifically Roman idea of the genius loci, it's an important concept (after all you you can find altars and other other artefacts to them all over Western Europe), and importantly one to which the cult of the Emperor developed from (first to the local district genii of the city of Rome, and then to the empire itself - think of the Empire as a 'place' and the genius of the emperor then at its genius). Anyway, I think this should be a Roman Religion stub and all the subsidiary ideas split into their own article when they have enough information in them. I'll see what I can contribute over the next week or so. GermanicusCaesar ( talk) 06:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
If you have the merge urge, merge spirit house; and also tutelary deity and Lak Mueang, which is a pillar dedicated to the genius of a city, not necessarily to a tutelary, though it is hard to distinguish between geniuses, tutelaries, and a palladium. Ya Mo's statue is treated by the locals like the latter — though she died in 1852, who's to say her spirit is not hanging around as a genius? Geniuses and tutelaries and their spirit houses abound in Thailand, as they do in all the adjacent countries. So do a great many of the practices which those in the west erroneously think died out with the ancient Roman religion — many of which were ancient when Rome was just a neophyte. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 14:15, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Oppose merge. I'm unclear why the Latin term should be applied to Asian beliefs. This seems reductive. Unless the Latin term is used regularly in English scholarship to describe a certain type of spirit outside ancient Roman religion, I think these other spirits should be considered in their own articles, not as some kind of lesser subset of Roman beliefs. I don't oppose including modern-era usage, such as by the Romantics, if it's a deliberate evocation of the classical tradition (as would be the case with the Romantics). In other words it's misleading to deal with an Asian belief system under a Western heading; it isn't misleading, if explained properly, to include classical revivalism. Cynwolfe ( talk) 14:57, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
The statue at this church has been part of the article since this revision, but does it really depict a genius loci? The linked page of the Tockenham village website says that the status depicts Asclepius. If that is true, then the snake is the Rod of Asclepius, which is a symbol of healing. It is a snake, but has nothing to do with genius loci? -- Margin1522 ( talk) 00:17, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes. It is a Genius. The identification of the St Giles relief as Asclepius is faulty - it's a local tradition to be sure, but not one supported by evidence, even on cursory identification. The picture which can be seen here -
http://www.oodwooc.co.uk/web_pics/tockenham/DigiTock004.jpg - clearly shows in the figure's left hand, carrying a Cornucopia, which makes the identification almost certainly a Genius Loci. In the 1994 episode of
Time Team that did a investigation of the church site,
Guy de la Bédoyère walked up to the figure and at one glance immediately identified it as a Genius Loci - a conclusion almost certainly correct.
GermanicusCaesar (
talk)
01:19, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Recent edit someone removed the link with the explanation "the sites say it is Acscelpius", which teh web site may indeed say that, but they are wrong. I am undoing the edit. The full reference is Time Team, Series 2, ep 3, 1995 where Guy de la Bedoyere id'd teh statue as a genius loci, not Asceplius.
GermanicusCaesar (
talk)
05:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I disagree with the characterisation that it is in Roman mythology that "a genius loci was the protective spirit of a place". It is actually in Roman religion that we have the much broader evidence of the Genius Loci -- the thousands of altars that are at least in part dedicated to the Genius loci, plus the idea that aspects of the imperial-era Emperor-cults evolve from local Roman municipal cults to Lares Compitales which were reorganised by Augustus into the Lares Augusti and combined with the Genius Augusti. This stuff is religio, not superstitio or fabulae. GermanicusCaesar ( talk) 01:36, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
After a brief think about it, I just amended the article as above, added a reference, etc.
GermanicusCaesar (
talk)
02:11, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
When talking of Genius Loci in Western context it is critical to Include the work of Christian Norberg-Schulz in his book 'Genius Loci: Towards a Phenomenology of Architecture'. This book is required reading in many schools of architecture to introduce the notion of creating a 'spirit of place', it would be good to see it acnowleged here if anyone who knows enough about the topic could add to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.190.253 ( talk) 11:14, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
What is the difference or relation between Genius loci and Spirit of place? -- S.Asadi ( talk) 11:03, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
I am closing this proposal for lack of support. Clean Copy talk 13:05, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
These refer to the identical idea, and indeed the two titles translate into one another. -- Лобачев Владимир ( talk) 11:24, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello. A good proposal, but not quite. ' can mean e.g. Athena being the goddess of intelligence (tutelary deity of brains, if you will); or the Capitoline Triad / Jupiter, the deities/y *of* Rome, yet not just *in* Rome, but everywhere. These are senses that 'genius loci' doesn't have. Its place - the locus - is more paramount in its concept, and it's more related to the idea of ancestor worship, if i was forced to choose.
GermanicusCaesar (
talk)
04:53, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
TV tropes redefines the word as a location itself with sentience. Like Ego the Living Planet. Booger-mike ( talk) 10:23, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
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could somehow genii loci be linked to this. Which term is more commonly known as to link it better?
What's the proper capitalization of the term? The article uses Genius Loci, Genius loci, and genius loci. Surely only one should be used consistently. :) - Phoenixrod 22:01, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Isn't the phrase actually Genus Loci? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.17.130.184 ( talk) 16:31, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
Genius is in the Latin nominative case, loci is in the genitive case ("of the place"), similar to modus operandi or corpus delicti. What I'd like to know is what is the accepted pronunciation, since the accurate Latin pronunciation (GAY-nee-us LO-kee) sounds stilted in conversation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hfitz ( talk • contribs) 16:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
I've added a chunk of text discussing the genius loci as a monster in high fantasy settings, such as DND. I had to do some paraphrasing so that I didn't overwhelm the original article. Between the fact that I can't find anything about it more official than my own analysis here and my lack of citation expertise in situations like this, I've left it completely uncited, with a list of good sources here.
I'm sorry for putting what is technically "original research" here, but we Tolkien geeks tend not to write in-depth, thoroughly researched papers about this sort of stuff. We've generally all read the original material, and can relate everything necessary to transfer a concept like this in two or three sentences. That doesn't provide anything useful for an encyclopedia entry, though, so there isn't really anything to cite.
These were my primary sources while writing this, but I've encountered genius loci in a number of other works (mostly short stories by various authors, although they're occasionally the monster of the week in epic fantasy novels).
Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 epic level handbook
Turn Coat: book 11 of the Dresden Files
Many high fantasy settings that use a more literal hot-and-cold-running-mana system, as described in Niven's works, also sometimes feature intelligent mana pools. These share many similarities with genius loci even though they're not named as such. I haven't found any really good similar term/page for these, and I tend to conflate them anyway, so I've stuck a reference to intelligent mana pools in there.
71.112.89.139 ( talk) 08:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The recent addition of a disambiguation seems unnecessary. Opinions?-- Mavigogun ( talk) 09:20, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Removed after consultation with Disambiguation Guidelines. Mavigogun ( talk) 09:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
The merge tag has been added, but without a rational. I am for. The concepts differ but, in practice, when people write now of 'Genius loci' they mean its atmosphere rather than literal Spirits. -- Duncan ( talk) 16:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I vote for. I did a dissertation in Romantic poetry (Wordsworth), and in literary criticism genius loci and "spirit of place" are very common and interchangeable. They refer to the same concepts. -- Margin1522 ( talk) 06:35, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I vote "against". I have graduate degrees in anthropology and landscape architecture (historic) and certainly understand the contemporary impetus to merge the concepts. Although in design and modern western culture, the terms have merged and are interchangeable, there are still many indigenous cultures who retain the older usage of a place-spirit. In addition, neopaganism retains the older usage and meaning as well, as in Asatru which has landvaettir, land spirits. I am also Native American and definitely still believe in and have experienced literal Spirits that protect and inhabit specific springs, mountains, and trees. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.44.149.255 ( talk) 13:14, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I vote against, quite emphatically. I also think there's not enough information in this article about the specifically Roman idea of the genius loci, it's an important concept (after all you you can find altars and other other artefacts to them all over Western Europe), and importantly one to which the cult of the Emperor developed from (first to the local district genii of the city of Rome, and then to the empire itself - think of the Empire as a 'place' and the genius of the emperor then at its genius). Anyway, I think this should be a Roman Religion stub and all the subsidiary ideas split into their own article when they have enough information in them. I'll see what I can contribute over the next week or so. GermanicusCaesar ( talk) 06:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
If you have the merge urge, merge spirit house; and also tutelary deity and Lak Mueang, which is a pillar dedicated to the genius of a city, not necessarily to a tutelary, though it is hard to distinguish between geniuses, tutelaries, and a palladium. Ya Mo's statue is treated by the locals like the latter — though she died in 1852, who's to say her spirit is not hanging around as a genius? Geniuses and tutelaries and their spirit houses abound in Thailand, as they do in all the adjacent countries. So do a great many of the practices which those in the west erroneously think died out with the ancient Roman religion — many of which were ancient when Rome was just a neophyte. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 14:15, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Oppose merge. I'm unclear why the Latin term should be applied to Asian beliefs. This seems reductive. Unless the Latin term is used regularly in English scholarship to describe a certain type of spirit outside ancient Roman religion, I think these other spirits should be considered in their own articles, not as some kind of lesser subset of Roman beliefs. I don't oppose including modern-era usage, such as by the Romantics, if it's a deliberate evocation of the classical tradition (as would be the case with the Romantics). In other words it's misleading to deal with an Asian belief system under a Western heading; it isn't misleading, if explained properly, to include classical revivalism. Cynwolfe ( talk) 14:57, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
The statue at this church has been part of the article since this revision, but does it really depict a genius loci? The linked page of the Tockenham village website says that the status depicts Asclepius. If that is true, then the snake is the Rod of Asclepius, which is a symbol of healing. It is a snake, but has nothing to do with genius loci? -- Margin1522 ( talk) 00:17, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes. It is a Genius. The identification of the St Giles relief as Asclepius is faulty - it's a local tradition to be sure, but not one supported by evidence, even on cursory identification. The picture which can be seen here -
http://www.oodwooc.co.uk/web_pics/tockenham/DigiTock004.jpg - clearly shows in the figure's left hand, carrying a Cornucopia, which makes the identification almost certainly a Genius Loci. In the 1994 episode of
Time Team that did a investigation of the church site,
Guy de la Bédoyère walked up to the figure and at one glance immediately identified it as a Genius Loci - a conclusion almost certainly correct.
GermanicusCaesar (
talk)
01:19, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Recent edit someone removed the link with the explanation "the sites say it is Acscelpius", which teh web site may indeed say that, but they are wrong. I am undoing the edit. The full reference is Time Team, Series 2, ep 3, 1995 where Guy de la Bedoyere id'd teh statue as a genius loci, not Asceplius.
GermanicusCaesar (
talk)
05:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I disagree with the characterisation that it is in Roman mythology that "a genius loci was the protective spirit of a place". It is actually in Roman religion that we have the much broader evidence of the Genius Loci -- the thousands of altars that are at least in part dedicated to the Genius loci, plus the idea that aspects of the imperial-era Emperor-cults evolve from local Roman municipal cults to Lares Compitales which were reorganised by Augustus into the Lares Augusti and combined with the Genius Augusti. This stuff is religio, not superstitio or fabulae. GermanicusCaesar ( talk) 01:36, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
After a brief think about it, I just amended the article as above, added a reference, etc.
GermanicusCaesar (
talk)
02:11, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
When talking of Genius Loci in Western context it is critical to Include the work of Christian Norberg-Schulz in his book 'Genius Loci: Towards a Phenomenology of Architecture'. This book is required reading in many schools of architecture to introduce the notion of creating a 'spirit of place', it would be good to see it acnowleged here if anyone who knows enough about the topic could add to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.190.253 ( talk) 11:14, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
What is the difference or relation between Genius loci and Spirit of place? -- S.Asadi ( talk) 11:03, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
I am closing this proposal for lack of support. Clean Copy talk 13:05, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
These refer to the identical idea, and indeed the two titles translate into one another. -- Лобачев Владимир ( talk) 11:24, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello. A good proposal, but not quite. ' can mean e.g. Athena being the goddess of intelligence (tutelary deity of brains, if you will); or the Capitoline Triad / Jupiter, the deities/y *of* Rome, yet not just *in* Rome, but everywhere. These are senses that 'genius loci' doesn't have. Its place - the locus - is more paramount in its concept, and it's more related to the idea of ancestor worship, if i was forced to choose.
GermanicusCaesar (
talk)
04:53, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
TV tropes redefines the word as a location itself with sentience. Like Ego the Living Planet. Booger-mike ( talk) 10:23, 14 June 2021 (UTC)