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The Wikipedia conventions are still being discussed, but for an article such as this (referring to a particular period in history), I believe that we should use the place names most commonly used in English-language sources (encyclopaedias, history books) when referrring to that period of history. Thus Pressburg (rather than Bratislava) and Klausenberg (rather than Cluj-Napoca). Also Peace of Nikolsburg (rather than Mikulov). Links, of course, should be to the official modern names of the cities. Scott Moore 16:20, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In my opinion, the only "correct" solution is to use the current name (unless the town was renamed like Bratislava), especially when there are several language versions and the current version was already used at that time. English texts use German names in this particular case, because some 100 years ago the English authors used German texts as their primary source (because the number of English people understanding Hungarian, Czech etc. texts was much lower) - so this is not a tradition, but a "technical problem". The general problem with the use of names like Nikolsburg is that everybody (and poeple do not normally follow all links in a text)immediately thinks that the town is in present-day Austria or Germany, which is misleading. For example I have spoken to an Italian professor in Austria who could not believe when I told him that Pressburg was Bratislava - he said he always thought that Pressburg was a town in Austria... But that's just my opinion... Juro 16:35, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I agree that using the current (official) name is "best practice", though I'm not sure that it is common practice among (still largely monolingual) English writers (and thus current official names may be unfamiliar to most readers - e.g many English speakers will not be familiar with Venezia, Firenze, Zaragoza, München, Köln, Praha etc). You have a good point, so for Wikipedia using a form such as Pressburg (Bratislava) [or Bratislava (Pressburg)] may solve the problems. Probably the most important thing is consistency. Scott Moore 17:37, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Gdańsk or Danzig? Discussion at Talk:Gdansk/Vote determined that Gdańsk is the single widely accepted English name in modern context, but Danzig is its widely accepted historical English name for certain historical contexts. There is no city of Danzig at present, but this term can be used in various historical contexts as described on the discussion page.
Someone found these in the guideline and they seem to allow usage of Hungarian names in historical context. Squash Racket 18:22, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
As the names of Kosice, Banska Bystrica etc. are not established in English in Slovak or Hungarian and the only official name in the period the article is dealing with was Latin, all the names should be mentioned like that. Hungarian names are blatantly anachronistic as they use modern spelling (e.g. Banska Bystrica was known in Hungarian as Byztherzebana and its countless variations). Pozsony is established in English as Pressburg, therefore the English name should be used. Wladthemlat ( talk) 13:11, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
As the official language of the Kingdom of Hungary was Latin until 1867 [2], using Hungarian names for cities etc. before this date is anachronistic. Since the Latin name that was used at the time can scarcely be found, we should list all the places with their modern names. Wladthemlat ( talk) 16:39, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Normally such a coincidence would be worthy of some note, but I'm not seeing any reference to in any outside sources. This leads me to suspect the birthdate we show is an error, copied from the death date. Our source for the birth date hardly fills one with confidence, shall we say. Comments? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 10:26, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
If you make a quick search for "Bethlen Gábor 1580. november 15", you will find that the coincidence is real. There are dozens of results, althouh most of them in Hungarain. Please consider reverting yourt edit. Rokarudi.-- Rokarudi ( talk) 18:20, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Gabriel Bethlen article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The Wikipedia conventions are still being discussed, but for an article such as this (referring to a particular period in history), I believe that we should use the place names most commonly used in English-language sources (encyclopaedias, history books) when referrring to that period of history. Thus Pressburg (rather than Bratislava) and Klausenberg (rather than Cluj-Napoca). Also Peace of Nikolsburg (rather than Mikulov). Links, of course, should be to the official modern names of the cities. Scott Moore 16:20, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In my opinion, the only "correct" solution is to use the current name (unless the town was renamed like Bratislava), especially when there are several language versions and the current version was already used at that time. English texts use German names in this particular case, because some 100 years ago the English authors used German texts as their primary source (because the number of English people understanding Hungarian, Czech etc. texts was much lower) - so this is not a tradition, but a "technical problem". The general problem with the use of names like Nikolsburg is that everybody (and poeple do not normally follow all links in a text)immediately thinks that the town is in present-day Austria or Germany, which is misleading. For example I have spoken to an Italian professor in Austria who could not believe when I told him that Pressburg was Bratislava - he said he always thought that Pressburg was a town in Austria... But that's just my opinion... Juro 16:35, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I agree that using the current (official) name is "best practice", though I'm not sure that it is common practice among (still largely monolingual) English writers (and thus current official names may be unfamiliar to most readers - e.g many English speakers will not be familiar with Venezia, Firenze, Zaragoza, München, Köln, Praha etc). You have a good point, so for Wikipedia using a form such as Pressburg (Bratislava) [or Bratislava (Pressburg)] may solve the problems. Probably the most important thing is consistency. Scott Moore 17:37, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Gdańsk or Danzig? Discussion at Talk:Gdansk/Vote determined that Gdańsk is the single widely accepted English name in modern context, but Danzig is its widely accepted historical English name for certain historical contexts. There is no city of Danzig at present, but this term can be used in various historical contexts as described on the discussion page.
Someone found these in the guideline and they seem to allow usage of Hungarian names in historical context. Squash Racket 18:22, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
As the names of Kosice, Banska Bystrica etc. are not established in English in Slovak or Hungarian and the only official name in the period the article is dealing with was Latin, all the names should be mentioned like that. Hungarian names are blatantly anachronistic as they use modern spelling (e.g. Banska Bystrica was known in Hungarian as Byztherzebana and its countless variations). Pozsony is established in English as Pressburg, therefore the English name should be used. Wladthemlat ( talk) 13:11, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
As the official language of the Kingdom of Hungary was Latin until 1867 [2], using Hungarian names for cities etc. before this date is anachronistic. Since the Latin name that was used at the time can scarcely be found, we should list all the places with their modern names. Wladthemlat ( talk) 16:39, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Normally such a coincidence would be worthy of some note, but I'm not seeing any reference to in any outside sources. This leads me to suspect the birthdate we show is an error, copied from the death date. Our source for the birth date hardly fills one with confidence, shall we say. Comments? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 10:26, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
If you make a quick search for "Bethlen Gábor 1580. november 15", you will find that the coincidence is real. There are dozens of results, althouh most of them in Hungarain. Please consider reverting yourt edit. Rokarudi.-- Rokarudi ( talk) 18:20, 2 October 2011 (UTC)