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I am a strong beliver one should use the language that is used in the context of the article subject, and which are commonly used by the cited sources in the article. Unsupriseingly, WP:Article titles#Treatment of alternative names agree with this in the section Treatment of alternative names by stateing: ... There is also no reason why alternative names cannot be used in article text, in contexts where they are more appropriate than the name used as the title of the article. Linux is the more common name used in general, but in the context of GNU General Public License then GNU/Linux is more common and thus the appropriate title. Belorn ( talk) 17:50, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
As justification to use the term "Linux", some use the argument that not everything that uses the Linux kernel also uses the GNU operating system. Android is perhaps the most notable example of this, although there are others. While that is correct, it is also irrelevant because no one is calling for those types of systems to be called GNU/Linux. The reverse of this arugment is also true, however: The GNU Operating System can also be used with kernels other than Linux. No one is calling for those systems to be called GNU/Linux either. There is a situation where calling the system GNU/Linux is appropriate: For distributions that take the GNU Operating System and replace the GNU kernel with the kernel called Linux. That is perhaps the most common situation that people encounter, at least with distributions that target laptop and desktop computers. Even though those distributions might (incorrectly) refer to themselves as a "Linux distribution" they are in fact a distribution of the GNU Operating System, with Linux added.
Another justification that's used to call the GNU Operating System "Linux" is that it's common among people, but repeating something that's basically wrong doesn't make it correct: I might be able to convince people to start referring to their chair as a closet, but that doesn't mean it's the correct term for it. If repeated often enough perhaps it might even catch on, just like saying that the combination of the GNU Operating System with the kernel called Linux is entirely "Linux" caught on. Perhaps Wikipedia would then adopt a policy that all chairs should be referred to as closets because that's what so many chair owners (and chair distributors) do, despite any confusion that it might cause. (See the fifth paragraph of http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html for an example of such confusion.)
Finally, an edit was made to remove "GNU/" from the statement that "it's believed that the copyleft provided by the GPL was crucial to the success of GNU/Linux". It is appropriate to mention GNU in this context for the reasons mentioned at http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#linuxalone. Jxself ( talk) 05:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
This is not just one editor's opinion, this is a very long standing and broadly-supported consensus on Wikipedia. That consensus is that"GNU/Linux" is considered a minority POV term used by the FSF and its supporters. On Wikipedia the term is only used to describe distros when the distro itself is called "GNU/Linux" and then only when referring to the distro itself. If you want to change this consensus then the way to go about is not by trying to insert the term GNU/Linux into individual articles like this one. You should read Talk:Linux including all the archives of that page, to get the history of the problem as well as Talk:Linux/Name as this is where past consensuses have been formed. You will also want to read GNU/Linux naming controversy and its talk page as background as well. When you have the history of the consensus read then you can present your case at Talk:Linux to try to convince the other editors that all references "Linux" other than to the kernel itself in Wikipedia should be changed to "GNU/Linux". Be advised that this has been brought up dozens of times there, including recently and has always been soundly and conclusively opposed. - Ahunt ( talk) 12:14, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Germany is not a common law country, so legal precedent doesn't apply there as far as I'm aware. CodeCat ( talk) 17:22, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
I've tagged said section for a POV check, as at present it reads as Wikipedia endorsing the spider plant metaphor; it needs to be clarified (using the sources) that this is the metaphor preferred by Stallman and/or the other cited references, not the one Wikipedia stands behind. It should either be a quote or at least generally attributed to someone rather than being set out as a rebuttal to the "virus" talk. - Vague | Rant 09:52, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Assume a program is developed based on GPL-code. Can you embed that program in a public website without releasing it under GPL-terms? 194.39.218.10 ( talk) 11:20, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Issue we've seen cropping up recently is that of projects claiming to be GPL but publishing code in a compressed or encrypted format which makes it barely human readable, if readable at all. Typically such code has line breaks stripped, and variables replaced with a, b, etc. The GPL itself is none to clear on the legitimacy of this. Though, I think we can safely assume that the authors did not use the published version of the code to develop the project, therefore by definition the project has not published its sourcecode. -- Anteaus ( talk) 15:25, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
I moved the points of view back to where they had been taken from. It said "The following points of view exist:" and then instead of listing anything, moved on to a different paragraph, so it was quite obvious. I'm not sure why they were moved to the bottom of the article, but they're extremely long and break the flow, so perhaps they could be moved to a separate page? I'm sure enough has been written about them to make them notable. -- 4368 ( talk) 13:50, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The sections involving Microsoft reek of bias. The idea that GPL is viral being treated as a negative connotation is not as black-and-white as this article (and the FSF's reaction to the comment) makes it seem.
1. The GPL CAN be seen as an infectious/viral thing to laymen. Yes the analogy does break down after further scrutiny, but no one ever said it was a perfect analogy; and, as an imperfect analogy it DOES help laymen understand it.
2. The idea that viral is a negative context is an emotional reaction more than one of based on facts. How are "viral videos" and "viral marketing" somehow the new "it" thing, which are positive connotations, and GPL being viral a negative one? In the context of the aforementioned topics, viral would imply that GPL catches on like wildfire and that everyone who sees it loves it and shares it.
3. Perhaps Steve Ballmer's opinion was, in fact, very anti-Linux/OSS/FSF/whatever. But perhaps it wasn't? In today's "post-2001's Microsoft VS Linux calling each other the devil" flamewars, I don't automatically know if I can interpret Steve Ballmer (and other Microsoft initiatives) as automatically evil. Just because Microsoft may have been against Linux doesn't necessarily mean everything they say concerning it should be contributed to malice. Especially since today, by the article's own admission, Microsoft is occasionally releasing GPL projects.
4. Lastly, before someone attempts to attack my character or intentions, I use both operating systems for both work and home.
Novous ( talk) 20:10, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Section was heavily POV based, so I tried to rewrite it. However, in the process of doing so, I noticed that all the major statements was from blogs. What was left was a synthesis conclusions based on Black Duck Software statistics, and a misquote from the datamation magazine. Their article states that the new version of GPL has caused a increased split between "open source" community and "free software" community. Belorn ( talk) 15:05, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
I am wondering if the following quote from the main page is in fact valid or not? "If modules are designed to run linked together in a shared address space, that almost surely means combining them into one program." Does that mean for example it's actually impossible to have a GPL'd plugin for a Commodore 64 application or in any other SASOS? 116.240.194.132 ( talk) 07:23, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Legal theory can̈́'t be distilled into absolute facts. Judges can decide on matter of facts inside a area where they have the power to do so, but then we have left theory and talk about specific cases. What you get from reading this quote from FSF is their written down opinion on what qualify as a Derivative work, where linking is a bright line that non-lawyers can use to simplify the legal theory and precedences that actually defines derivative work. Belorn ( talk) 15:03, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
though this is "copyleft", "copyright" is still used. if a person or a company buys all copyrights from all project developers (contributors) or a person /company develops a project only by itself from the start and so holds all copyrights, it can continue development of the project with any other license it wants (but that is allowed by laws) , for example it can hide source code etc. but it is not clear whether it can also cancel right to use the previously copied copies of the project that were copied with gpl license (and that copies are spread all over the world at different persons). -- Qdinar ( talk) 16:14, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
The talk page is not the place to make "informal additions" to the article, either it is sourced and added to the article or not. Also please keep in mind that talk pages are here solely to discuss improving the article not as a forum to discuss the topic of the article. - Ahunt ( talk) 23:50, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I think the Adoption section could do with an update. This is the adoption rate page that's referenced in the article: https://www.blackducksoftware.com/resources/data/top-20-open-source-licenses
The percentages for GPL have all fallen somewhat.
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@ EndThisEntropy: and anyone else interested: I'm not an expert in the GA review process by any means, but I suspect this should be immediately failed because of the banner in Section 9. Without commenting on the quality of the section, does someone here who is more familiar with the article and the history of that section want to take a pass on taking the necessary steps to improve that section and remove that banner? Thanks. — Luis ( talk) 04:45, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
FYI, because of possible perceived conflicts (mostly that I was on one of the expert committees for the drafting of GPL v3) I will not do a formal GA review. But I'm starting to draft an informal one here. Other GA reviewers may want to wait until I'm done with that, and/or editors of this article may want to follow along as I draft there. — Luis ( talk) 18:13, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
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@ EndThisEntropy: ProgrammingGeek is on an extended wikibreak, and as such is unlikely to complete this review. I've reset the status for this review and the bot will relist it on the nominations page. TheDragonFire ( talk) 08:54, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
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Wow, this is quite a long article! Looks good to start with, but the first thing I do notice is perhaps a bit of citation overkill in the second paragraph. -- numbermaniac ( talk) 02:01, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
It's been two months and the issues haven't been address, or even acknowledged here. As such I'm closing this. Wizardman 15:34, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
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Factually Misleading: Fact - Over 50% decline of GPL usage in one decade. A tremendous rejection. See Adoption section. Any truthful analysis of these facts would be prefaced in the introduction by noting a precipitous decline, not "remains one of the most popular".
Unbalanced: Disasterous consequences and costs. Case in point. https://mycroft.ai/right-license/
Essay Style: Is verbose, self-promoting, and trivial in detail. Simply look at the tone, which is consistently sophomoric thoughout the entire bloated and disorganized treatment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.1.100.185 ( talk) 18:25, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
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Could someone please explain the legal background or just even the intention behind the automatic termination clause (Section 8 in the GPLv3)? As far as I know about U.S. and German copyright law/Urheberrecht any usage beyond the limits of the GPL (and law, of course) is a copyright violation in any case, so why this termination clause? Moreover, the termination of the license it has effect to an unlimited future unless revived either by the copyright holder or, in case of v3, the additional sixty/thirty-day revival rules. This means, especially for software licensed under GPLv2, that even an unintended infringement (e.g. forgotten to link to the source) renders the further usage of the software or its redistribution illegal, including all follow-up redistribs by other persons. Why should that be? Wouldn't it be less dangerous (for both the user and the copyright holder's reputation) if the license invalidity would only be for the duration of the violation but no longer than that? In my opionion this is in important legal issue that definitively should be addressed in the article.-- SiriusB ( talk) 12:33, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Currently the first sentence of the lead defines the GPL as a license, when in fact it's a series or a family of licenses, as referred to in the second lead paragraph. Colloquially "the GPL" is used to refer to any of the main licenses, and in my experience even formal/professional sources don't define the version of the license most of the time unless it's required for the subject at hand. For the sake of accuracy and clarity, I think both the correct definition and colloquial use of the terms should be mentioned in the first sentence or near it, but I'm not sure what the wording should look like for it not to be messy, and whether this should be sourced and if so, where to find a source for this. -- Veikk0.ma 21:13, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
It should be mentioned that .c and .h files have "or later" part that identifies what is the actual lisence is, see x265, x264. Not the COPYING file with the license. 109.252.90.119 ( talk) 21:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
wala payung 200 112.203.198.221 ( talk) 02:29, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
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I am a strong beliver one should use the language that is used in the context of the article subject, and which are commonly used by the cited sources in the article. Unsupriseingly, WP:Article titles#Treatment of alternative names agree with this in the section Treatment of alternative names by stateing: ... There is also no reason why alternative names cannot be used in article text, in contexts where they are more appropriate than the name used as the title of the article. Linux is the more common name used in general, but in the context of GNU General Public License then GNU/Linux is more common and thus the appropriate title. Belorn ( talk) 17:50, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
As justification to use the term "Linux", some use the argument that not everything that uses the Linux kernel also uses the GNU operating system. Android is perhaps the most notable example of this, although there are others. While that is correct, it is also irrelevant because no one is calling for those types of systems to be called GNU/Linux. The reverse of this arugment is also true, however: The GNU Operating System can also be used with kernels other than Linux. No one is calling for those systems to be called GNU/Linux either. There is a situation where calling the system GNU/Linux is appropriate: For distributions that take the GNU Operating System and replace the GNU kernel with the kernel called Linux. That is perhaps the most common situation that people encounter, at least with distributions that target laptop and desktop computers. Even though those distributions might (incorrectly) refer to themselves as a "Linux distribution" they are in fact a distribution of the GNU Operating System, with Linux added.
Another justification that's used to call the GNU Operating System "Linux" is that it's common among people, but repeating something that's basically wrong doesn't make it correct: I might be able to convince people to start referring to their chair as a closet, but that doesn't mean it's the correct term for it. If repeated often enough perhaps it might even catch on, just like saying that the combination of the GNU Operating System with the kernel called Linux is entirely "Linux" caught on. Perhaps Wikipedia would then adopt a policy that all chairs should be referred to as closets because that's what so many chair owners (and chair distributors) do, despite any confusion that it might cause. (See the fifth paragraph of http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html for an example of such confusion.)
Finally, an edit was made to remove "GNU/" from the statement that "it's believed that the copyleft provided by the GPL was crucial to the success of GNU/Linux". It is appropriate to mention GNU in this context for the reasons mentioned at http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#linuxalone. Jxself ( talk) 05:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
This is not just one editor's opinion, this is a very long standing and broadly-supported consensus on Wikipedia. That consensus is that"GNU/Linux" is considered a minority POV term used by the FSF and its supporters. On Wikipedia the term is only used to describe distros when the distro itself is called "GNU/Linux" and then only when referring to the distro itself. If you want to change this consensus then the way to go about is not by trying to insert the term GNU/Linux into individual articles like this one. You should read Talk:Linux including all the archives of that page, to get the history of the problem as well as Talk:Linux/Name as this is where past consensuses have been formed. You will also want to read GNU/Linux naming controversy and its talk page as background as well. When you have the history of the consensus read then you can present your case at Talk:Linux to try to convince the other editors that all references "Linux" other than to the kernel itself in Wikipedia should be changed to "GNU/Linux". Be advised that this has been brought up dozens of times there, including recently and has always been soundly and conclusively opposed. - Ahunt ( talk) 12:14, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Germany is not a common law country, so legal precedent doesn't apply there as far as I'm aware. CodeCat ( talk) 17:22, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
I've tagged said section for a POV check, as at present it reads as Wikipedia endorsing the spider plant metaphor; it needs to be clarified (using the sources) that this is the metaphor preferred by Stallman and/or the other cited references, not the one Wikipedia stands behind. It should either be a quote or at least generally attributed to someone rather than being set out as a rebuttal to the "virus" talk. - Vague | Rant 09:52, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Assume a program is developed based on GPL-code. Can you embed that program in a public website without releasing it under GPL-terms? 194.39.218.10 ( talk) 11:20, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Issue we've seen cropping up recently is that of projects claiming to be GPL but publishing code in a compressed or encrypted format which makes it barely human readable, if readable at all. Typically such code has line breaks stripped, and variables replaced with a, b, etc. The GPL itself is none to clear on the legitimacy of this. Though, I think we can safely assume that the authors did not use the published version of the code to develop the project, therefore by definition the project has not published its sourcecode. -- Anteaus ( talk) 15:25, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
I moved the points of view back to where they had been taken from. It said "The following points of view exist:" and then instead of listing anything, moved on to a different paragraph, so it was quite obvious. I'm not sure why they were moved to the bottom of the article, but they're extremely long and break the flow, so perhaps they could be moved to a separate page? I'm sure enough has been written about them to make them notable. -- 4368 ( talk) 13:50, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The sections involving Microsoft reek of bias. The idea that GPL is viral being treated as a negative connotation is not as black-and-white as this article (and the FSF's reaction to the comment) makes it seem.
1. The GPL CAN be seen as an infectious/viral thing to laymen. Yes the analogy does break down after further scrutiny, but no one ever said it was a perfect analogy; and, as an imperfect analogy it DOES help laymen understand it.
2. The idea that viral is a negative context is an emotional reaction more than one of based on facts. How are "viral videos" and "viral marketing" somehow the new "it" thing, which are positive connotations, and GPL being viral a negative one? In the context of the aforementioned topics, viral would imply that GPL catches on like wildfire and that everyone who sees it loves it and shares it.
3. Perhaps Steve Ballmer's opinion was, in fact, very anti-Linux/OSS/FSF/whatever. But perhaps it wasn't? In today's "post-2001's Microsoft VS Linux calling each other the devil" flamewars, I don't automatically know if I can interpret Steve Ballmer (and other Microsoft initiatives) as automatically evil. Just because Microsoft may have been against Linux doesn't necessarily mean everything they say concerning it should be contributed to malice. Especially since today, by the article's own admission, Microsoft is occasionally releasing GPL projects.
4. Lastly, before someone attempts to attack my character or intentions, I use both operating systems for both work and home.
Novous ( talk) 20:10, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Section was heavily POV based, so I tried to rewrite it. However, in the process of doing so, I noticed that all the major statements was from blogs. What was left was a synthesis conclusions based on Black Duck Software statistics, and a misquote from the datamation magazine. Their article states that the new version of GPL has caused a increased split between "open source" community and "free software" community. Belorn ( talk) 15:05, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
I am wondering if the following quote from the main page is in fact valid or not? "If modules are designed to run linked together in a shared address space, that almost surely means combining them into one program." Does that mean for example it's actually impossible to have a GPL'd plugin for a Commodore 64 application or in any other SASOS? 116.240.194.132 ( talk) 07:23, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Legal theory can̈́'t be distilled into absolute facts. Judges can decide on matter of facts inside a area where they have the power to do so, but then we have left theory and talk about specific cases. What you get from reading this quote from FSF is their written down opinion on what qualify as a Derivative work, where linking is a bright line that non-lawyers can use to simplify the legal theory and precedences that actually defines derivative work. Belorn ( talk) 15:03, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
though this is "copyleft", "copyright" is still used. if a person or a company buys all copyrights from all project developers (contributors) or a person /company develops a project only by itself from the start and so holds all copyrights, it can continue development of the project with any other license it wants (but that is allowed by laws) , for example it can hide source code etc. but it is not clear whether it can also cancel right to use the previously copied copies of the project that were copied with gpl license (and that copies are spread all over the world at different persons). -- Qdinar ( talk) 16:14, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
The talk page is not the place to make "informal additions" to the article, either it is sourced and added to the article or not. Also please keep in mind that talk pages are here solely to discuss improving the article not as a forum to discuss the topic of the article. - Ahunt ( talk) 23:50, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I think the Adoption section could do with an update. This is the adoption rate page that's referenced in the article: https://www.blackducksoftware.com/resources/data/top-20-open-source-licenses
The percentages for GPL have all fallen somewhat.
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@ EndThisEntropy: and anyone else interested: I'm not an expert in the GA review process by any means, but I suspect this should be immediately failed because of the banner in Section 9. Without commenting on the quality of the section, does someone here who is more familiar with the article and the history of that section want to take a pass on taking the necessary steps to improve that section and remove that banner? Thanks. — Luis ( talk) 04:45, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
FYI, because of possible perceived conflicts (mostly that I was on one of the expert committees for the drafting of GPL v3) I will not do a formal GA review. But I'm starting to draft an informal one here. Other GA reviewers may want to wait until I'm done with that, and/or editors of this article may want to follow along as I draft there. — Luis ( talk) 18:13, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
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@ EndThisEntropy: ProgrammingGeek is on an extended wikibreak, and as such is unlikely to complete this review. I've reset the status for this review and the bot will relist it on the nominations page. TheDragonFire ( talk) 08:54, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Numbermaniac ( talk · contribs) 02:01, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Wow, this is quite a long article! Looks good to start with, but the first thing I do notice is perhaps a bit of citation overkill in the second paragraph. -- numbermaniac ( talk) 02:01, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
It's been two months and the issues haven't been address, or even acknowledged here. As such I'm closing this. Wizardman 15:34, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
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Factually Misleading: Fact - Over 50% decline of GPL usage in one decade. A tremendous rejection. See Adoption section. Any truthful analysis of these facts would be prefaced in the introduction by noting a precipitous decline, not "remains one of the most popular".
Unbalanced: Disasterous consequences and costs. Case in point. https://mycroft.ai/right-license/
Essay Style: Is verbose, self-promoting, and trivial in detail. Simply look at the tone, which is consistently sophomoric thoughout the entire bloated and disorganized treatment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.1.100.185 ( talk) 18:25, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
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Could someone please explain the legal background or just even the intention behind the automatic termination clause (Section 8 in the GPLv3)? As far as I know about U.S. and German copyright law/Urheberrecht any usage beyond the limits of the GPL (and law, of course) is a copyright violation in any case, so why this termination clause? Moreover, the termination of the license it has effect to an unlimited future unless revived either by the copyright holder or, in case of v3, the additional sixty/thirty-day revival rules. This means, especially for software licensed under GPLv2, that even an unintended infringement (e.g. forgotten to link to the source) renders the further usage of the software or its redistribution illegal, including all follow-up redistribs by other persons. Why should that be? Wouldn't it be less dangerous (for both the user and the copyright holder's reputation) if the license invalidity would only be for the duration of the violation but no longer than that? In my opionion this is in important legal issue that definitively should be addressed in the article.-- SiriusB ( talk) 12:33, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Currently the first sentence of the lead defines the GPL as a license, when in fact it's a series or a family of licenses, as referred to in the second lead paragraph. Colloquially "the GPL" is used to refer to any of the main licenses, and in my experience even formal/professional sources don't define the version of the license most of the time unless it's required for the subject at hand. For the sake of accuracy and clarity, I think both the correct definition and colloquial use of the terms should be mentioned in the first sentence or near it, but I'm not sure what the wording should look like for it not to be messy, and whether this should be sourced and if so, where to find a source for this. -- Veikk0.ma 21:13, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
It should be mentioned that .c and .h files have "or later" part that identifies what is the actual lisence is, see x265, x264. Not the COPYING file with the license. 109.252.90.119 ( talk) 21:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
wala payung 200 112.203.198.221 ( talk) 02:29, 7 October 2023 (UTC)