This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
There is a request, submitted by Catfurball, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "Important". |
However, Dr Timo Partonen of the Finnish National Public Health Institute carried out a study of 1400 suicides and found that people were more likely to make an attempt on their life when there was a new moon. Unless people disagree, I'm going to remove this text as it refers to a new mooìn rather than a full moon. lxowle ( talk) 03:59, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Its absolute maximum size occurs at the moment expansion has stopped, and when graphed, its tangent slope is zero. I suggest removing this line all together - it is a complex way of saying something simple. lxowle ( talk) 03:55, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Does Full Moon always have to be capitalised? -- Guinnog 23:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (capital letters) has "The words sun, earth, and moon are proper nouns when the sentence uses them in an astronomical context..." -- Guinnog 10:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I got this in some random e-mail with a bunch of 'facts'.
February 1865 is the only month in recorded history not to have a full moon.
Not true. Since a lunar month has an average duration of about 29.5 days and February usually has only 28 days, there are occasions when there is no Full Moon in February. Last occurrence was in 1999, next one in 2018. See: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.html Tom Peters 07:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
The material at Full moon#The Blue Moon should probably be merged into the Full moon article. BlankVerse ∅ 16:25, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I deleted the statement: The moon is also the inspiration behind a song containing the lyrics: "When the moon hits your eye, like a big pizza pie. That's amore". I think it is too general for this article. I will see if it makes a useful addition to Moon. -- Theo (Talk) 14:23, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
In a similar vein, I am removing the statement that cartoons usually depict the moon as being made of cheese. There might be a place for that, but it doesn't belong on a scientific page on full moons. Kafziel 19:04, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
My mom says that it is harder to sleep when it is full moon, is this true?
Whatever the headshrinkers may theorise, ask any cop what effect the full moon has. Noone wants to be working nights around a full moon.
{{
Confusing}}
(Cats to Clean)
Best regards. Delete template at will so long as point three handled. // Fra nkB 20:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
How long does a full moon (or any other phase of the moon, for that matter) last? 81.156.250.78 02:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
At the moment, the definition (first paragraph of the the article) uses this dual condition: "when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun, and when the three celestial bodies are aligned as close as possible to a straight line".
This is inconsistent: if the Moon is truly on the opposite side, the three bodies would, in fact, be in a straight line. It is also overly vague: "as close as possible" without what? In other words, what would we have if the three bodies were truly in a straight line? The answer to this question, I believe, is the key to a more proper definition: a Full Moon occurs when the Moon is furthest from the sun in a given lunar cycle, and the three celestial bodies are at their closest to being in a straight line without being exactly in a straight line. My second condition is needed because, when the Moon is furthest from the Sun in a given lunar cycle and the bodies are exactly in a straight line, the Earth's shadow completely covers the Moon, and we have a full lunar eclipse rather than a Full Moon.
Actually, the Earth's shadow can completely cover the Moon even if the bodies are not exactly lined up. Additionally, there are intermediate situations, which are different types of partial lunar eclipses. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_eclipse , http://starryskies.com/The_sky/events/lunar-2003/eclipse1.html , and http://starryskies.com/The_sky/events/lunar-2003/eclipse2.html .
I'm not an astronomer, but I know a bit of solid geometry, and I know a vague phrase when I see it!
SeanStreiff 19:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I looked in an almanac and it seems full moon and opposition do not occur exactly at the same time (about one hour). I'm looking for more info. 22 January 2008.
According to the definition in the article, full moon is when the Earth, Sun, and Moon are as close to a straight line as possible. From the Earth, this is when the angular distance between the Sun and Moon was the greatest. Using ephemeris from SOLEX 9.1, I found the max difference (near the next full moon) came at 3:27:46 TDT, and opposition at 3:31:36 TDT. (Out of curiosity, I compared the opposition time to the algorithm from Astronomical Algorithms, by Meeus. Meeus' time for the full moon was two seconds later.) A 3:50 difference. (The answer was slightly different when I used the smallest Sun-Earth difference from the Moon). Gotta correct the definition. Meeus gives the apparent geocentric longitude definition. Saros136 ( talk) 07:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps add something to address this question. Because of the inclination of the moon's orbital plane on the ecliptic plane (5°), the moon is usually not in the Earth's shadow at that time (angular size 1°23'). When the moon's orbit is close enough to the ecliptic at the time of opposition, and the moon enters partially or totally the Earth's shadow, the event is a Lunar eclipse. Jblndl ( talk) 14:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I would like to see some citation for these names. And some citations that are based on the specific languages and cultures of Native America, not some New Agey book that lumps all these cultures together. To me, these names look like some archaizing projection. There was not just one "Native American language" and it's very unlikely that all of them, even in the "northern and eastern United States" used similar terms. It's true that the planetary associations with the days of the week are very similar from Ireland through Korea, but this is probably due to the influence of Babylonian astronomy. In India, despite the importance of Sanskrit astronomy, the names of months and the dating of new year days varies greatly across the sub-continent. I imagine the same is true for "Native American" names for the months. Interlingua 16:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
The illuminated area of the moon, as seen from the earth, rises and falls through the moon's various phases, as we know. Its apparent brightness, based on the light from the sun to the moon, reflected or scattered back to the earth, also rises and falls accordingly. As the moon nears Full moon, it's apparent illuminated area increases slowly to a maximum and then decreases slowly away from that, similar to the peak of a sine wave. A second effect is that humans are not especially sensitive to changes in brightness; our perception to brightness changes is often spoken as being logarithmic. So we should expect our perception to be that the moon would appear to be close to it's brightest for several days leading up to the Full moon and for several days thereafter. However, instead it appears to be MUCH brighter right at the Full moon, and perhaps for one day before and after.
I'm wondering if the reflectivity of the moon to the earth isn't much higher right when the light angle from the sun to the earth is very close to 180 degrees, and we're not relying so much on light-scattering and off-angle (non-180-degree) reflectance to get our moonlight. Perhaps the Full moon really is MUCH brighter? Perhaps someone knows where to look up measurements of this effect, assuming that it's real. 98.216.52.158 ( talk) 09:56, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Am I right in thinking that it only appears round, but is in fact, not a circle, but an ellipse? -- Rebroad ( talk) 22:59, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
I am no astronomer but it seems to me that the one time you cannot have a full moon (see opening para of the article) is when the moon is on the opposite side of the earth from the sun. Surely this is when there will be maximum earth shadow across the moon as the earth will be directly between the sun and the moon?? Am I being thick here?
Further . . . if the stated positioning was in a completely straight line, then it seems to me that there would be a total eclipse of the moon, which is about as far as you can get from a full moon. I'm sure I must be missing soemthing here but I would be very grateful if someone can tell me what. Gurumaister ( talk) 19:30, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I propose that the main image becomes:
It's a simplified version of the full moon (so no picture) to bring article in line with other moon phase articles … KVDP ( talk) 12:19, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
The moon names section contains the following: "the Egg Moon (the full moon before Easter) would be the first moon after March 21".
But according to the Easter section of Claus Tøndering's Calendar FAQ, Easter is "the first Sunday after the first Full moon on or after the Vernal Equinox [emphasis mine] (the FAQ then explains that the "official" Vernal Equinox, on 21 March, is usually used for this calculation, rather than the actual Vernal Equinox, which may differ from the official one by a day or two). So which is correct?
The FAQ also says that this full moon, because it's associated with Easter, is called the Paschal Moon. Perhaps this name should be added to the "alternate names" section? — 188.28.84.150 ( talk) 08:01, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Protection due to ongoing sock disruption? Anyone mind translating this into English, please? Victor Engel ( talk) 20:24, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Some myths are based on the full moon, like the werewolf. Also, on H2o (a popular mermaid show) there is a part about the full moon. It's always the full moon, why are some myths based on only the full moon? Why not a half moon or anything else? Any answer would help! ~ Angielmawesomeness — Preceding unsigned comment added by Angielmawesomeness ( talk • contribs) 04:10, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Currently November is showing as "beaver" moon which sounds suspiciously like it might be N. American.
Generally worried about potential conflation of sources which has resulted in an "English name" and "Other names" division.
The following site has separate categories for "colonial american" and "medieval english" http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moonnames.htm
Futhermore there is a reference to "Egg Moon" under "Full moon names" which does not appear in the table immediately below
Scanning other sites shows variation even within attributions to English/Colonial categories http://tbtf.com/archive/1999-01-04.html#s09 http://www.fullmoon.info/en/blog/fullmoon-names.html This one tries to give sense to different timings for Julian and Gregorian as well as cultural changes http://www.celticmythmoon.com/moon.html
So, in short - the current tabular presentation seems to be misleading if not inaccurate. I am unsure how definitive we can be given the amount of variation which is being recorded in the secondary sources I have seen. However, just moving information from English to expand the "Other" column would be unsatisfactory in terms of legibilty.
Maybe a separate table for English traditions? This loses the ability to scan across a Gregorian month to see all equivalents, but, given the complexity of the English data compared to the others, may be the answer Mcgladdery ( talk) 08:44, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
the "table of full moon names" has been an eyesore for years, but nobody seems to be willing to fix it. I mean come on, what does it contain?
Even if it wasn't for the referencing problem, what sort of selection is this? "Farmers' Almanac, Algonquin, other, Hindu, Sinhala"? I am now removing this thing, convinced that the action results in a better article. -- dab (𒁳) 13:00, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
-- Robert Saunders ( talk) 21:10, 3 September 2012 (UTC) Should "Pink Moon" not be added to the list of names for the April full moon? I'm no expert but there are various references online, including this one on the National Geographic website: http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/space/solar-system/full-moon-article/
Northern Native Americans call April's full moon the pink moon after a species of early blooming wildflower. I am sorry, but I am tired of these made-up or unverifiable names based on "Native Americans". These "Native Americans" have names, and languages, and they used to fill an entire continent. So if anyone wants to claim "Native American" derivation of such a name, let them specifiy which people, which language, ideally first attestation, and a reference to a dictionary or something. Otherwise I am afraid it must be treated as "Farmers' Almanac" cruft, and whoever brings up the name must be considered a primary source.
It almost seems Farmers' Almanac is proud of their role in generating fakelore. Of their "traditional" moon names, the only ones that seem to based in actual folklore are "harvest moon" and "hunters' moon". These are also known to OED, and can be traced to 18th century England. All ther other, US-specific name need a decent reference to their origin and earliest attestation.
"Pink moon" seems to be the latest to join this illustrious group. I find it attested for 2009, but it only seems to have been picked up by journalists this year. It's difficult to research, because Pink Moon is a 1972 record. It turns out that FA used "pink moon" before 2009, based on these pages, [6] [7]. -- dab (𒁳) 13:23, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
The earliest "Farmers' Almanacs" began to be published in the late 18th century, i.e. they did not so much report as contribute to the formation of American folklore. I just found that they seem to have a predecessor in The Boston ephemeris, an almanack published in the 1680s. But the "Boston ephemeris" isn't particularly interested in the moons, it just gives the phases and does not record any fanciful names. This therefore becomes a topic of 18th-century history, it would be interesting to trace the development of American almanacs connecting the 1680s and the 1790s and see if the full moon names pop up at some point. -- dab (𒁳) 13:45, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
It turns out that Dan Beard is citing his own work, American boys' book of signs, signals and symbols published 1918 [8]. On p. 78, there is The Buckskin Calendar including a list of "Indian moons", as above,
This is at present the earlist known list of "pseudo-Indian month names". Beard has apparently just made them up, he isn't claiming these are actual Indian names, they are just intended for the purpose of "second class scouts" who apparently pretend-played at being Indians, intermediate between the Tenderfeet rank, which just uses the Julian names, and the Pioneer rank. So my theory is that Beard (1918) came up with "Indian month names" for the boy scouts, and that these name somehow entered popular usage, and came to be picked up by the Farmers' Almanacs by the 1930s or 1940s. People then tried to find the "real" Indian names of these months, introducing new names or trying to find explanations for them. -- dab (𒁳) 14:02, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
This is surprisingly difficult to research. I have now compiled what I could find about the history of these almanacs at American almanacs. Looking through 19th-century examples of such almanacs shows no traces of "Indian moon names", but I admit I could not find any 19th century copy of the Maine Farmers' Almanac. So far we know that "Indian moon names" were a thing among the American boy scouts from at least 1918, and that Maine Farmers' Almanac printed such names (but which ones) from at least the 1930s. That's a terminus ante quem, but no more, but I do have the impression that this is a development of the early 20th century (when "Native Americans" came to be seen as romantic, viz. after the end of the Indian wars of the 1870s at least). Thanks to Sky & Telescope we have some information about the term blue moon,
but unfortunately this, taken at face value, only says "more than a dozen in the period 1819-1962", it doesn't say if any of this dozen are from the earlier part of this span. Theoretically, you get 14 blue moons in 38 years, so the "more than a dozen" could easily fit into the 20th century. Plus, of course, "blue moon" is not one of the "Indian" group of names, and may occur before, or independent of, the "Indian" thing, it's just an indication that this publication began to care about the moon more than others, as most almanacs just give you the moon phases and nothing more.
It seems that the tradition of listing moon names by Native American tribe began in popular "moon mysteries" books of the 1990s. The supposed native names are still unsourced and highly questionable, but they must have some source (these authors all copy from one another, and it will eventually turn out somebody made this all up, but it will be interesting to see who and when). It seems there is a genuine "colonial" New England tradition which claims moon names based on Algonquin, even if this isn't necessarily true the existence of the tradition itself is factual, and presumably goes back to the 19th century. -- dab (𒁳) 09:36, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
The first two sentences of the article both appear to be missing the word "is". In the first sentence, "when the Moon completely illuminated" should be "when the Moon is completely illuminated". In the second sentence, "the Moon in opposition" should be "the Moon is in opposition". Wcomm ( talk) 05:50, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Does the moon really rise up to 50 minutes later each night? I find this hard to believe. Bear in mind that sunrise is approximately 2 minutes later per day in summer time (and 2 minutes earlier in winter.)
Sincerely, Mike — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.113.163 ( talk) 23:39, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
The calculation, if done [Steve in-]correctly, gives an average of 54.7078 minutes. All the references I have found on the net either use the wrong lunar orbit period of 29.5 instead of the siderial period. 27.32166 and/or assume, implicitly in their calculation method, that the moon stops after 24 hours to let the earth catch up. This is implicit in the concept that the earth has to turn one day's worth more of moon revolution to catch up and ignores the fact that the moon still moves as Earth is doing its catch up after the 24 hour mark. I found two college astronomy pages with these errors! The time is NOT 24/29.5 as shown in a earlier paragraph and those who show that either simply copied it from somewhere else with it wrong, or don't understand uniform motion. It is a more complex, though not very difficult calculation that can either be based on calculating the catch-up time using the difference of the speeds (like hands on an analog clock), or solving the simultaneous equations of the two bodies using D=RT (Distance=Rate x Time). Even the NASA site has the 50 minute time. I'm waiting for responses from several other sites hoping to find someone with the skills to reason it out correctly. Regards, Steve -- Steve -- ( talk) 08:53, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi Tom. I'll explain. Using the synodic period of the moon is a changing reference for the moon's orbit. As earth moves in its orbit (for that day) the angle to the sun changes. This is a changing reference. I see so many pages with this reference. Earth is under constant radial acceleration about the sun and pointing to the sun as the reference for "Going-Around-the-Earth" is a constantly changing vector. This is not an inertial reference. Therefore, the position of the moon "Around" Earth is being based on a moving reference and therefore not on a 'stationary' (or nearly so) inertial reference. Moon-Rise is not determined in any way by the position of the sun relative to earth - NONE. [Sun direction *does* effect moon-phases, but NOT location of moon relative to EARTH] When the moon goes the oft quoted 29.5 DAYS [corection] it has actually traveled around Earth once PLUS the amount (angle) Earth moved in its orbit during that time. Draw out a "top view" of the two positions of Sun-Earth-Moon in both positions a day apart (or more for clarity) and it should be clear that Moon went more than one rev. when you have the Moon-Sun angle the same for both. Using the Siderial moon-period references the position of moon to Earth to a much more close-to-inertial reference (background of stars). Any motion of the background of stars or our galaxy is much less an effect, so is neglected here.
Then, so many folks note that after 24 hours, the moon is 12 (actually 13.18) degrees below the horizon, then proceed to calculate how long it takes for Earth to rotate that amount TOTALLY IGNORING that the moon DID NOT stop and wait for Earth, but is still moving. Therefore, the moon moves further, in smaller amounts if you keep trying to calculate these additional catch-up times. The simplistic divide X by Y calculation implicitly assumes that the moon stops to wait for Earth to catch-up.
If you doubt this reasoning Google for "How much time does it take for the minute hand to catch up with the hour hand" This is exactly the same problem and Rotating the clock to lie on its side, will not change it. It takes MORE than 20 minutes for the minute hand to catch-up with the hour hand starting from 4:00. Same thing. Using the two speeds and D=RT you come to the correct solution. If someone has a logical response that refutes this, I want to see it. I have given this considerable thought and also have emails to several astronomy profs... Some of them even have this error on their web page! Blows my mind, it seems so obvious. As a side note, using the moon's crossing of the observer's meridian should be a better guage for this analysis than moon-rise. It shouold remove, or at least minimize any observer-latitude effects., but conceptually moon-rise is ok.
Otherwise I agree that 50 is approximately 54.70779267...
-- Steve -- (
talk) 20:13, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
That should have been 29.5 days not degrees. -- Steve -- ( talk) 20:27, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Ahhh! Tom, I just caught another thing you mention. I am pleased you try to question the 24 hour earth-day being a synodic interval, rather than siderial and a possible source of error in the time scale. It shows that you have, perhaps, better than average grasp of this issue. I find it interesting/puzzeling, however, that you know that one rotation of Earth is the Siderial 'day' (not the common Synodic 24 hours), Yet maintain that one revolution of Moon is the Synodic period...? That right there is the key to getting this correct! However, NO. I have not made any such error and have anticipated that exact question. The basis for our units of time is indeed the synodic Earth period. However, ANY constantly advancing time scale can be used regardless of how big the units are. We could just as easily have used a siderial Mars-Day, divided it into 25 'Mars-hours' and those into 50 'Mars-minutes" and arrived at the same conclusion... Then, get the same number after converting back to Earth minutes. This would be no different than measuring in meters, then converting to inches. The key to my claim is realizing that Moon orbits *must* be in a SIDERIAL reference, not Synodic (Sun referenced). Please consider carefully. Regards, -- Steve -- ( talk) 20:57, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Tom, Your link above to cs,astronomy.com appears to have rotted. -- Steve -- ( talk) 21:09, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
While I feel that my calculations are completely valid and have been validated by the clock hands catching-up algorithm described on several pages on the net, I think that my calculations may be considered to be original research and I will simply upload my complete analysis to my web site for others to review and back off here. I invite review of my method as I see so many duplications of the common errors and simply want to provide the correct view. I also realize that this may seem either pedandic, or like someone with little understanding of some fundamentals who is trying to force an invalid, though well meaning idea on others, but the aforeto mentioned validation as well as the sound reasoning behind my proposed correction encourage me to continue this quest. I am also contacting several astronomy instructors and professors with this for review and appear to have in the works an analysis of this by a group of advanced astromony students at one university. I also think this subject probably belongs in the Orbit of the Moon Wiki page or integrated into the Moon Project in some way. Regards, k9dci at arrl.net -- Steve -- ( talk) 02:14, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Tom, I reviewed how you reworded the daily delay part. I guess it's ok. I finally got to that cs.astronomy site (router goofy), but those numbers aren't there in a Sept 12 "Harvest Moon" blog. Also poked around Curt's site a bit.
A - I believe you have a typo in that quote: "(1440/28.53 _hours_, or the number of _hours_ in a solar day ...) 1440 is # of _MINUTES_ in a solar day thus making the final units also _Minutes_(per day). Or is that his typo?
B - RE: "the number of solar days it takes for the moon to orbit the earth" If I understand the words, it is saying: "Earth (Synodic, or human observable) days per Lunar orbit (the true sidereal orbit)" is simply the moon's sidereal period (in regular days)...which is 27.32 Earth-Sun days. That's what I get from the words you posted... another typo?
C - Does/did Curt explain the derivation of the 28.53 number? That looks fishy to me. The true calculation for two uniformly moving bodies is not a simple ratio -it has a difference in it that is the difference in speeds; more easily thought of as a "closing velocity" like one car tailing another. Regards, Steve -- Steve -- ( talk) 03:49, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Whew! I identified what appears to be the source of my original error in stating the delay as 54.7078 minutes. That number actually appears to be correct, but... The calculation I derived and used is algebraically identical to the one you showed using synodic values and the closing speed method. What I missed was that I actually solved for the time after Earth's _sidereal_ day that it takes Earth to catch the moon again, not after the solar day. Subtracting the interval from sidereal to synodic day gets to 50.776 minutes (0.61% high). It seems that it should give the same exact result, but I am unable to say why it is not precisely 50.47. I can only guess that it may have something to do with the way the periods are defined - since there are difference ways to define a period that is not constant, but varies due to orbit eccentricities and eccentricities of the bodies the times are related to. After all, this is unreasonably trying to calculate a precise average for a quite complex set of interrelated rotations. An exact approximation... (;-) Regards, -- Steve -- ( talk) 04:48, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
The "Harvest and Hunter's moons" section currently says:
However, autumn is only around that time of year in the Northern hemisphere. So, are these the full moons around the September equinox, in which case the hemisphere doesn't matter, or are these the full moons around the autumnal equinox, which makes them in September or October in the Northern hemisphere and in March or April in the Southern hemisphere? To put it a different way, counting both hemispheres, are there one or two hunter's moons per year? The way the above line is currently worded is pretty much self-contradictory on this point. -- Hi Ev 13:00, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Full moon/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
*Suggested merge with
Lunar phases
|
Last edited at 17:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 15:42, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Full moon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:40, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Harvest moon (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 13:33, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
urila — Preceding unsigned comment added by Urila ( talk • contribs) 02:08, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
The Scattered light is considered in the literature as a diffusive light, light that passed a number of scattering events before it left the scattering material. Diffusely scattered light must obey Lambert's Cosine scattering law. In the case of unidirectional light scattered backward from a surface of a sphere, the meaning is maximum scattering intensity in the middle of the sphere, and a decline to zero toward the periphery by the cosine law. The full moon looks uniform and people continue to assume that the light is diffusely scattered from it. More than that. The nearly uniform sphere image is common to all the planets and their moons, including the earth as observed from space and the moon. Out of thousands upon thousands of true photos, there is no single true photo that obeys Lambert's Cosine law. The only photos that do obey the law are rendered photos, photos that are at least partly simulated. Contrary to all that, if the scattering is assumed to be mainly a single event, then all the scattering dipoles are directly stimulated by the light radiation on the illuminated scattering material. Then scattering by them must be coherent, and then the full moon and all the other illuminated bodies, with similar illumination geometry, must be uniform, at least approximately. The full moon tells us that single event scattering is dominant. Maybe with small corrections of multiple scattering. Why is the single event dominant? It seems that the effect is geometrical and statistical. If we consider one event scattering, two event scattering, multiple event scattering, then the event probability will decline with an increasing number of scatterings. The single event has a probability of at least 50% and it is the strongest event. Nearly all the background that surrounds us is a singly scattered light. A true diffusely scattered light is rather rare.
Urila ( talk) 15:35, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Urila ( talk) 03:58, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
References
So the article said it was 180° apart. It's not exactly true on every full moon, except for lunar eclipse, though it's still called full moon. I corrected it a bit and some users reverted me. The only reason why it's not exactly 180° apart on every full moon is that moon orbit is 5° tilted from earth orbit. The Channel of Random ( talk) 16:00, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
When I say it's not exactly 180° apart I mean it's few degrees away north or south. [12] The Channel of Random ( talk) 18:10, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:52, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
Reading the current lead is really odd:
"The full moon is the lunar phase when the Moon appears fully illuminated from Earth's perspective. This occurs when Earth is located between the Sun and the Moon (more exactly, when the ecliptic longitudes of the Sun and Moon differ by 180°).[3] This means that the lunar hemisphere facing Earth – the near side – is completely sunlit and appears as a circular disk. The full moon occurs roughly once a month."
So, in the first sentence a full moon is described as a lunar phase, meaning it is a period of time lasting several days (around 7.4 days according to the Lunar phase article).
But in the following sentences a full moon is described as a point in time where something specific happens, thus with no time span whatsoever. (The descriptions are rather lax, though, with stuff like "completely sunlit" (which can logically never happen, as then we have a lunar eclipse, a solar eclipse on the moon), so the descriptions about the point-in-time full moon should also be clarified).
So there are two separate and quite distinct, although related, meanings of the words "full moon", but they are mysteriously conflated without even mentioning that they are two distinct concepts. That's really odd.
Anyway, it should be fixed. I'm just unsure of the proper Wikipedian way of writing the lead in an article about two distinct, but closely related, concepts with the same name.
-- Jhertel ( talk) 23:10, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
The Full Moon is what we see when the Earth facing side of the Moon is at its maximum visibility as seen from Earth during a given orbit. I say that because it’s orbital inclination is approximately 5.145° which means in almost every case, we never see a 100% visible moon during a full moon.
That can only occur during a total lunar eclipse and being at the right location at the right time. For that to happen, one must be at the right location at the right time and the Moon must be within the right latitudes around the ecliptic.
While the average person might not visually tell the difference between a moon that’s 96%+ or 100% full with unaided eyes over the span of several days/nights (save for lunar eclipses which appear dark due to Earth’s shadow and red due to atmospheric light refraction), it’s obvious for those with sharp vision and/or optical equipment.
Yet the photos obviously show the Moon’s Earth-facing side not being completely sunlit as either the east, west, north or south of the Moon is hidden in darkness as those portions aren’t reflecting any sunlight.
All in all, the term full moon appears to be a misnomer in most cases as it’s only truly possible if viewed at the right location on Earth at the right time during the right lunar eclipse.
The article needed a big fix as it stated something we almost never see. It would be more common to see a 100% full moon from a given location on Earth if it’s orbital inclination were 0° relative to the ecliptic. Yet as written far below the page, it’s a moment that never lasts. 67.235.204.246 ( talk) 10:14, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Harvest moon and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 15#Harvest moon until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) ( talk) 19:42, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
It says there’s still some dark spot when there isn’t a lunar eclipse.
Well first of all, a spot is a point, and second of all, how much of it that appears dark during a full moon depends not only on where the Moon is in its orbit, but where you’re viewing it.
The only way you can’t see a dark section during a lunar eclipse is if the Moon is at the very center of the anti-solar point (the opposite of the Sun’s position), which rarely ever happens and you have to be at the right place on Earth at the right time. Even during an ultra-central lunar eclipse, very few places will ever see the moon apparently making a bull’s eye with the anti-solar point even though it hits the center of Earth’s shadow no matter where you are during so.
You gotta think about parallax and how the Moon is much closer to Earth than even the nearest stars (including the Sun), so where it is relative to background points in the sky varies depending on where you view the Moon from.
Yet diurnal libration (caused by Earth’s rotation) also adds to the fact that only limited places get such spot on views of the Moon during ultra-central lunar eclipses (where the portion unilluminated by sunlight of any means) is too small for even high quality digital cameras to detect.
Truth to be told, the “spot” that isn’t illuminated by the sun never disappears from view unless you’re at the right place at the right time during a lunar eclipse. Eric Nelson27 ( talk) 13:39, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
particularly where you are during any total lunar eclipse. Central, even more so Eric Nelson27 ( talk) 13:42, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 September 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): WZ2372 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by WZ2372 ( talk) 14:19, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
I've added material (with references) for full moon names attributed to indigenous North Americans. There's quite a lot of information, and given the limited geographical scope (and the dubious nature of some of the sources), I wonder if there should instead be a separate new article for these folk names. The material I've added is in the section headed "Farmers Almanacs", which again seems out of place, since the Maine Farmers Almanac claimed its 1937 list was of traditional English names (though they were neither traditional nor English). I also think that the big table of moon names in that section should be removed, since all it shows is that various authors have suggested lots of names that are not well substantiated. Cheeselymoon ( talk) 21:33, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
There is a request, submitted by Catfurball, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "Important". |
However, Dr Timo Partonen of the Finnish National Public Health Institute carried out a study of 1400 suicides and found that people were more likely to make an attempt on their life when there was a new moon. Unless people disagree, I'm going to remove this text as it refers to a new mooìn rather than a full moon. lxowle ( talk) 03:59, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Its absolute maximum size occurs at the moment expansion has stopped, and when graphed, its tangent slope is zero. I suggest removing this line all together - it is a complex way of saying something simple. lxowle ( talk) 03:55, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Does Full Moon always have to be capitalised? -- Guinnog 23:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (capital letters) has "The words sun, earth, and moon are proper nouns when the sentence uses them in an astronomical context..." -- Guinnog 10:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I got this in some random e-mail with a bunch of 'facts'.
February 1865 is the only month in recorded history not to have a full moon.
Not true. Since a lunar month has an average duration of about 29.5 days and February usually has only 28 days, there are occasions when there is no Full Moon in February. Last occurrence was in 1999, next one in 2018. See: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.html Tom Peters 07:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
The material at Full moon#The Blue Moon should probably be merged into the Full moon article. BlankVerse ∅ 16:25, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I deleted the statement: The moon is also the inspiration behind a song containing the lyrics: "When the moon hits your eye, like a big pizza pie. That's amore". I think it is too general for this article. I will see if it makes a useful addition to Moon. -- Theo (Talk) 14:23, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
In a similar vein, I am removing the statement that cartoons usually depict the moon as being made of cheese. There might be a place for that, but it doesn't belong on a scientific page on full moons. Kafziel 19:04, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
My mom says that it is harder to sleep when it is full moon, is this true?
Whatever the headshrinkers may theorise, ask any cop what effect the full moon has. Noone wants to be working nights around a full moon.
{{
Confusing}}
(Cats to Clean)
Best regards. Delete template at will so long as point three handled. // Fra nkB 20:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
How long does a full moon (or any other phase of the moon, for that matter) last? 81.156.250.78 02:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
At the moment, the definition (first paragraph of the the article) uses this dual condition: "when the Moon is on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun, and when the three celestial bodies are aligned as close as possible to a straight line".
This is inconsistent: if the Moon is truly on the opposite side, the three bodies would, in fact, be in a straight line. It is also overly vague: "as close as possible" without what? In other words, what would we have if the three bodies were truly in a straight line? The answer to this question, I believe, is the key to a more proper definition: a Full Moon occurs when the Moon is furthest from the sun in a given lunar cycle, and the three celestial bodies are at their closest to being in a straight line without being exactly in a straight line. My second condition is needed because, when the Moon is furthest from the Sun in a given lunar cycle and the bodies are exactly in a straight line, the Earth's shadow completely covers the Moon, and we have a full lunar eclipse rather than a Full Moon.
Actually, the Earth's shadow can completely cover the Moon even if the bodies are not exactly lined up. Additionally, there are intermediate situations, which are different types of partial lunar eclipses. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_eclipse , http://starryskies.com/The_sky/events/lunar-2003/eclipse1.html , and http://starryskies.com/The_sky/events/lunar-2003/eclipse2.html .
I'm not an astronomer, but I know a bit of solid geometry, and I know a vague phrase when I see it!
SeanStreiff 19:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I looked in an almanac and it seems full moon and opposition do not occur exactly at the same time (about one hour). I'm looking for more info. 22 January 2008.
According to the definition in the article, full moon is when the Earth, Sun, and Moon are as close to a straight line as possible. From the Earth, this is when the angular distance between the Sun and Moon was the greatest. Using ephemeris from SOLEX 9.1, I found the max difference (near the next full moon) came at 3:27:46 TDT, and opposition at 3:31:36 TDT. (Out of curiosity, I compared the opposition time to the algorithm from Astronomical Algorithms, by Meeus. Meeus' time for the full moon was two seconds later.) A 3:50 difference. (The answer was slightly different when I used the smallest Sun-Earth difference from the Moon). Gotta correct the definition. Meeus gives the apparent geocentric longitude definition. Saros136 ( talk) 07:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps add something to address this question. Because of the inclination of the moon's orbital plane on the ecliptic plane (5°), the moon is usually not in the Earth's shadow at that time (angular size 1°23'). When the moon's orbit is close enough to the ecliptic at the time of opposition, and the moon enters partially or totally the Earth's shadow, the event is a Lunar eclipse. Jblndl ( talk) 14:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I would like to see some citation for these names. And some citations that are based on the specific languages and cultures of Native America, not some New Agey book that lumps all these cultures together. To me, these names look like some archaizing projection. There was not just one "Native American language" and it's very unlikely that all of them, even in the "northern and eastern United States" used similar terms. It's true that the planetary associations with the days of the week are very similar from Ireland through Korea, but this is probably due to the influence of Babylonian astronomy. In India, despite the importance of Sanskrit astronomy, the names of months and the dating of new year days varies greatly across the sub-continent. I imagine the same is true for "Native American" names for the months. Interlingua 16:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
The illuminated area of the moon, as seen from the earth, rises and falls through the moon's various phases, as we know. Its apparent brightness, based on the light from the sun to the moon, reflected or scattered back to the earth, also rises and falls accordingly. As the moon nears Full moon, it's apparent illuminated area increases slowly to a maximum and then decreases slowly away from that, similar to the peak of a sine wave. A second effect is that humans are not especially sensitive to changes in brightness; our perception to brightness changes is often spoken as being logarithmic. So we should expect our perception to be that the moon would appear to be close to it's brightest for several days leading up to the Full moon and for several days thereafter. However, instead it appears to be MUCH brighter right at the Full moon, and perhaps for one day before and after.
I'm wondering if the reflectivity of the moon to the earth isn't much higher right when the light angle from the sun to the earth is very close to 180 degrees, and we're not relying so much on light-scattering and off-angle (non-180-degree) reflectance to get our moonlight. Perhaps the Full moon really is MUCH brighter? Perhaps someone knows where to look up measurements of this effect, assuming that it's real. 98.216.52.158 ( talk) 09:56, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Am I right in thinking that it only appears round, but is in fact, not a circle, but an ellipse? -- Rebroad ( talk) 22:59, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
I am no astronomer but it seems to me that the one time you cannot have a full moon (see opening para of the article) is when the moon is on the opposite side of the earth from the sun. Surely this is when there will be maximum earth shadow across the moon as the earth will be directly between the sun and the moon?? Am I being thick here?
Further . . . if the stated positioning was in a completely straight line, then it seems to me that there would be a total eclipse of the moon, which is about as far as you can get from a full moon. I'm sure I must be missing soemthing here but I would be very grateful if someone can tell me what. Gurumaister ( talk) 19:30, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I propose that the main image becomes:
It's a simplified version of the full moon (so no picture) to bring article in line with other moon phase articles … KVDP ( talk) 12:19, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
The moon names section contains the following: "the Egg Moon (the full moon before Easter) would be the first moon after March 21".
But according to the Easter section of Claus Tøndering's Calendar FAQ, Easter is "the first Sunday after the first Full moon on or after the Vernal Equinox [emphasis mine] (the FAQ then explains that the "official" Vernal Equinox, on 21 March, is usually used for this calculation, rather than the actual Vernal Equinox, which may differ from the official one by a day or two). So which is correct?
The FAQ also says that this full moon, because it's associated with Easter, is called the Paschal Moon. Perhaps this name should be added to the "alternate names" section? — 188.28.84.150 ( talk) 08:01, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Protection due to ongoing sock disruption? Anyone mind translating this into English, please? Victor Engel ( talk) 20:24, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Some myths are based on the full moon, like the werewolf. Also, on H2o (a popular mermaid show) there is a part about the full moon. It's always the full moon, why are some myths based on only the full moon? Why not a half moon or anything else? Any answer would help! ~ Angielmawesomeness — Preceding unsigned comment added by Angielmawesomeness ( talk • contribs) 04:10, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Currently November is showing as "beaver" moon which sounds suspiciously like it might be N. American.
Generally worried about potential conflation of sources which has resulted in an "English name" and "Other names" division.
The following site has separate categories for "colonial american" and "medieval english" http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moonnames.htm
Futhermore there is a reference to "Egg Moon" under "Full moon names" which does not appear in the table immediately below
Scanning other sites shows variation even within attributions to English/Colonial categories http://tbtf.com/archive/1999-01-04.html#s09 http://www.fullmoon.info/en/blog/fullmoon-names.html This one tries to give sense to different timings for Julian and Gregorian as well as cultural changes http://www.celticmythmoon.com/moon.html
So, in short - the current tabular presentation seems to be misleading if not inaccurate. I am unsure how definitive we can be given the amount of variation which is being recorded in the secondary sources I have seen. However, just moving information from English to expand the "Other" column would be unsatisfactory in terms of legibilty.
Maybe a separate table for English traditions? This loses the ability to scan across a Gregorian month to see all equivalents, but, given the complexity of the English data compared to the others, may be the answer Mcgladdery ( talk) 08:44, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
the "table of full moon names" has been an eyesore for years, but nobody seems to be willing to fix it. I mean come on, what does it contain?
Even if it wasn't for the referencing problem, what sort of selection is this? "Farmers' Almanac, Algonquin, other, Hindu, Sinhala"? I am now removing this thing, convinced that the action results in a better article. -- dab (𒁳) 13:00, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
-- Robert Saunders ( talk) 21:10, 3 September 2012 (UTC) Should "Pink Moon" not be added to the list of names for the April full moon? I'm no expert but there are various references online, including this one on the National Geographic website: http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/space/solar-system/full-moon-article/
Northern Native Americans call April's full moon the pink moon after a species of early blooming wildflower. I am sorry, but I am tired of these made-up or unverifiable names based on "Native Americans". These "Native Americans" have names, and languages, and they used to fill an entire continent. So if anyone wants to claim "Native American" derivation of such a name, let them specifiy which people, which language, ideally first attestation, and a reference to a dictionary or something. Otherwise I am afraid it must be treated as "Farmers' Almanac" cruft, and whoever brings up the name must be considered a primary source.
It almost seems Farmers' Almanac is proud of their role in generating fakelore. Of their "traditional" moon names, the only ones that seem to based in actual folklore are "harvest moon" and "hunters' moon". These are also known to OED, and can be traced to 18th century England. All ther other, US-specific name need a decent reference to their origin and earliest attestation.
"Pink moon" seems to be the latest to join this illustrious group. I find it attested for 2009, but it only seems to have been picked up by journalists this year. It's difficult to research, because Pink Moon is a 1972 record. It turns out that FA used "pink moon" before 2009, based on these pages, [6] [7]. -- dab (𒁳) 13:23, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
The earliest "Farmers' Almanacs" began to be published in the late 18th century, i.e. they did not so much report as contribute to the formation of American folklore. I just found that they seem to have a predecessor in The Boston ephemeris, an almanack published in the 1680s. But the "Boston ephemeris" isn't particularly interested in the moons, it just gives the phases and does not record any fanciful names. This therefore becomes a topic of 18th-century history, it would be interesting to trace the development of American almanacs connecting the 1680s and the 1790s and see if the full moon names pop up at some point. -- dab (𒁳) 13:45, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
It turns out that Dan Beard is citing his own work, American boys' book of signs, signals and symbols published 1918 [8]. On p. 78, there is The Buckskin Calendar including a list of "Indian moons", as above,
This is at present the earlist known list of "pseudo-Indian month names". Beard has apparently just made them up, he isn't claiming these are actual Indian names, they are just intended for the purpose of "second class scouts" who apparently pretend-played at being Indians, intermediate between the Tenderfeet rank, which just uses the Julian names, and the Pioneer rank. So my theory is that Beard (1918) came up with "Indian month names" for the boy scouts, and that these name somehow entered popular usage, and came to be picked up by the Farmers' Almanacs by the 1930s or 1940s. People then tried to find the "real" Indian names of these months, introducing new names or trying to find explanations for them. -- dab (𒁳) 14:02, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
This is surprisingly difficult to research. I have now compiled what I could find about the history of these almanacs at American almanacs. Looking through 19th-century examples of such almanacs shows no traces of "Indian moon names", but I admit I could not find any 19th century copy of the Maine Farmers' Almanac. So far we know that "Indian moon names" were a thing among the American boy scouts from at least 1918, and that Maine Farmers' Almanac printed such names (but which ones) from at least the 1930s. That's a terminus ante quem, but no more, but I do have the impression that this is a development of the early 20th century (when "Native Americans" came to be seen as romantic, viz. after the end of the Indian wars of the 1870s at least). Thanks to Sky & Telescope we have some information about the term blue moon,
but unfortunately this, taken at face value, only says "more than a dozen in the period 1819-1962", it doesn't say if any of this dozen are from the earlier part of this span. Theoretically, you get 14 blue moons in 38 years, so the "more than a dozen" could easily fit into the 20th century. Plus, of course, "blue moon" is not one of the "Indian" group of names, and may occur before, or independent of, the "Indian" thing, it's just an indication that this publication began to care about the moon more than others, as most almanacs just give you the moon phases and nothing more.
It seems that the tradition of listing moon names by Native American tribe began in popular "moon mysteries" books of the 1990s. The supposed native names are still unsourced and highly questionable, but they must have some source (these authors all copy from one another, and it will eventually turn out somebody made this all up, but it will be interesting to see who and when). It seems there is a genuine "colonial" New England tradition which claims moon names based on Algonquin, even if this isn't necessarily true the existence of the tradition itself is factual, and presumably goes back to the 19th century. -- dab (𒁳) 09:36, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
The first two sentences of the article both appear to be missing the word "is". In the first sentence, "when the Moon completely illuminated" should be "when the Moon is completely illuminated". In the second sentence, "the Moon in opposition" should be "the Moon is in opposition". Wcomm ( talk) 05:50, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Does the moon really rise up to 50 minutes later each night? I find this hard to believe. Bear in mind that sunrise is approximately 2 minutes later per day in summer time (and 2 minutes earlier in winter.)
Sincerely, Mike — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.113.163 ( talk) 23:39, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
The calculation, if done [Steve in-]correctly, gives an average of 54.7078 minutes. All the references I have found on the net either use the wrong lunar orbit period of 29.5 instead of the siderial period. 27.32166 and/or assume, implicitly in their calculation method, that the moon stops after 24 hours to let the earth catch up. This is implicit in the concept that the earth has to turn one day's worth more of moon revolution to catch up and ignores the fact that the moon still moves as Earth is doing its catch up after the 24 hour mark. I found two college astronomy pages with these errors! The time is NOT 24/29.5 as shown in a earlier paragraph and those who show that either simply copied it from somewhere else with it wrong, or don't understand uniform motion. It is a more complex, though not very difficult calculation that can either be based on calculating the catch-up time using the difference of the speeds (like hands on an analog clock), or solving the simultaneous equations of the two bodies using D=RT (Distance=Rate x Time). Even the NASA site has the 50 minute time. I'm waiting for responses from several other sites hoping to find someone with the skills to reason it out correctly. Regards, Steve -- Steve -- ( talk) 08:53, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi Tom. I'll explain. Using the synodic period of the moon is a changing reference for the moon's orbit. As earth moves in its orbit (for that day) the angle to the sun changes. This is a changing reference. I see so many pages with this reference. Earth is under constant radial acceleration about the sun and pointing to the sun as the reference for "Going-Around-the-Earth" is a constantly changing vector. This is not an inertial reference. Therefore, the position of the moon "Around" Earth is being based on a moving reference and therefore not on a 'stationary' (or nearly so) inertial reference. Moon-Rise is not determined in any way by the position of the sun relative to earth - NONE. [Sun direction *does* effect moon-phases, but NOT location of moon relative to EARTH] When the moon goes the oft quoted 29.5 DAYS [corection] it has actually traveled around Earth once PLUS the amount (angle) Earth moved in its orbit during that time. Draw out a "top view" of the two positions of Sun-Earth-Moon in both positions a day apart (or more for clarity) and it should be clear that Moon went more than one rev. when you have the Moon-Sun angle the same for both. Using the Siderial moon-period references the position of moon to Earth to a much more close-to-inertial reference (background of stars). Any motion of the background of stars or our galaxy is much less an effect, so is neglected here.
Then, so many folks note that after 24 hours, the moon is 12 (actually 13.18) degrees below the horizon, then proceed to calculate how long it takes for Earth to rotate that amount TOTALLY IGNORING that the moon DID NOT stop and wait for Earth, but is still moving. Therefore, the moon moves further, in smaller amounts if you keep trying to calculate these additional catch-up times. The simplistic divide X by Y calculation implicitly assumes that the moon stops to wait for Earth to catch-up.
If you doubt this reasoning Google for "How much time does it take for the minute hand to catch up with the hour hand" This is exactly the same problem and Rotating the clock to lie on its side, will not change it. It takes MORE than 20 minutes for the minute hand to catch-up with the hour hand starting from 4:00. Same thing. Using the two speeds and D=RT you come to the correct solution. If someone has a logical response that refutes this, I want to see it. I have given this considerable thought and also have emails to several astronomy profs... Some of them even have this error on their web page! Blows my mind, it seems so obvious. As a side note, using the moon's crossing of the observer's meridian should be a better guage for this analysis than moon-rise. It shouold remove, or at least minimize any observer-latitude effects., but conceptually moon-rise is ok.
Otherwise I agree that 50 is approximately 54.70779267...
-- Steve -- (
talk) 20:13, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
That should have been 29.5 days not degrees. -- Steve -- ( talk) 20:27, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Ahhh! Tom, I just caught another thing you mention. I am pleased you try to question the 24 hour earth-day being a synodic interval, rather than siderial and a possible source of error in the time scale. It shows that you have, perhaps, better than average grasp of this issue. I find it interesting/puzzeling, however, that you know that one rotation of Earth is the Siderial 'day' (not the common Synodic 24 hours), Yet maintain that one revolution of Moon is the Synodic period...? That right there is the key to getting this correct! However, NO. I have not made any such error and have anticipated that exact question. The basis for our units of time is indeed the synodic Earth period. However, ANY constantly advancing time scale can be used regardless of how big the units are. We could just as easily have used a siderial Mars-Day, divided it into 25 'Mars-hours' and those into 50 'Mars-minutes" and arrived at the same conclusion... Then, get the same number after converting back to Earth minutes. This would be no different than measuring in meters, then converting to inches. The key to my claim is realizing that Moon orbits *must* be in a SIDERIAL reference, not Synodic (Sun referenced). Please consider carefully. Regards, -- Steve -- ( talk) 20:57, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Tom, Your link above to cs,astronomy.com appears to have rotted. -- Steve -- ( talk) 21:09, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
While I feel that my calculations are completely valid and have been validated by the clock hands catching-up algorithm described on several pages on the net, I think that my calculations may be considered to be original research and I will simply upload my complete analysis to my web site for others to review and back off here. I invite review of my method as I see so many duplications of the common errors and simply want to provide the correct view. I also realize that this may seem either pedandic, or like someone with little understanding of some fundamentals who is trying to force an invalid, though well meaning idea on others, but the aforeto mentioned validation as well as the sound reasoning behind my proposed correction encourage me to continue this quest. I am also contacting several astronomy instructors and professors with this for review and appear to have in the works an analysis of this by a group of advanced astromony students at one university. I also think this subject probably belongs in the Orbit of the Moon Wiki page or integrated into the Moon Project in some way. Regards, k9dci at arrl.net -- Steve -- ( talk) 02:14, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Tom, I reviewed how you reworded the daily delay part. I guess it's ok. I finally got to that cs.astronomy site (router goofy), but those numbers aren't there in a Sept 12 "Harvest Moon" blog. Also poked around Curt's site a bit.
A - I believe you have a typo in that quote: "(1440/28.53 _hours_, or the number of _hours_ in a solar day ...) 1440 is # of _MINUTES_ in a solar day thus making the final units also _Minutes_(per day). Or is that his typo?
B - RE: "the number of solar days it takes for the moon to orbit the earth" If I understand the words, it is saying: "Earth (Synodic, or human observable) days per Lunar orbit (the true sidereal orbit)" is simply the moon's sidereal period (in regular days)...which is 27.32 Earth-Sun days. That's what I get from the words you posted... another typo?
C - Does/did Curt explain the derivation of the 28.53 number? That looks fishy to me. The true calculation for two uniformly moving bodies is not a simple ratio -it has a difference in it that is the difference in speeds; more easily thought of as a "closing velocity" like one car tailing another. Regards, Steve -- Steve -- ( talk) 03:49, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Whew! I identified what appears to be the source of my original error in stating the delay as 54.7078 minutes. That number actually appears to be correct, but... The calculation I derived and used is algebraically identical to the one you showed using synodic values and the closing speed method. What I missed was that I actually solved for the time after Earth's _sidereal_ day that it takes Earth to catch the moon again, not after the solar day. Subtracting the interval from sidereal to synodic day gets to 50.776 minutes (0.61% high). It seems that it should give the same exact result, but I am unable to say why it is not precisely 50.47. I can only guess that it may have something to do with the way the periods are defined - since there are difference ways to define a period that is not constant, but varies due to orbit eccentricities and eccentricities of the bodies the times are related to. After all, this is unreasonably trying to calculate a precise average for a quite complex set of interrelated rotations. An exact approximation... (;-) Regards, -- Steve -- ( talk) 04:48, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
The "Harvest and Hunter's moons" section currently says:
However, autumn is only around that time of year in the Northern hemisphere. So, are these the full moons around the September equinox, in which case the hemisphere doesn't matter, or are these the full moons around the autumnal equinox, which makes them in September or October in the Northern hemisphere and in March or April in the Southern hemisphere? To put it a different way, counting both hemispheres, are there one or two hunter's moons per year? The way the above line is currently worded is pretty much self-contradictory on this point. -- Hi Ev 13:00, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Full moon/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
*Suggested merge with
Lunar phases
|
Last edited at 17:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 15:42, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Full moon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:40, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Harvest moon (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 13:33, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
urila — Preceding unsigned comment added by Urila ( talk • contribs) 02:08, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
The Scattered light is considered in the literature as a diffusive light, light that passed a number of scattering events before it left the scattering material. Diffusely scattered light must obey Lambert's Cosine scattering law. In the case of unidirectional light scattered backward from a surface of a sphere, the meaning is maximum scattering intensity in the middle of the sphere, and a decline to zero toward the periphery by the cosine law. The full moon looks uniform and people continue to assume that the light is diffusely scattered from it. More than that. The nearly uniform sphere image is common to all the planets and their moons, including the earth as observed from space and the moon. Out of thousands upon thousands of true photos, there is no single true photo that obeys Lambert's Cosine law. The only photos that do obey the law are rendered photos, photos that are at least partly simulated. Contrary to all that, if the scattering is assumed to be mainly a single event, then all the scattering dipoles are directly stimulated by the light radiation on the illuminated scattering material. Then scattering by them must be coherent, and then the full moon and all the other illuminated bodies, with similar illumination geometry, must be uniform, at least approximately. The full moon tells us that single event scattering is dominant. Maybe with small corrections of multiple scattering. Why is the single event dominant? It seems that the effect is geometrical and statistical. If we consider one event scattering, two event scattering, multiple event scattering, then the event probability will decline with an increasing number of scatterings. The single event has a probability of at least 50% and it is the strongest event. Nearly all the background that surrounds us is a singly scattered light. A true diffusely scattered light is rather rare.
Urila ( talk) 15:35, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Urila ( talk) 03:58, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
References
So the article said it was 180° apart. It's not exactly true on every full moon, except for lunar eclipse, though it's still called full moon. I corrected it a bit and some users reverted me. The only reason why it's not exactly 180° apart on every full moon is that moon orbit is 5° tilted from earth orbit. The Channel of Random ( talk) 16:00, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
When I say it's not exactly 180° apart I mean it's few degrees away north or south. [12] The Channel of Random ( talk) 18:10, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:52, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
Reading the current lead is really odd:
"The full moon is the lunar phase when the Moon appears fully illuminated from Earth's perspective. This occurs when Earth is located between the Sun and the Moon (more exactly, when the ecliptic longitudes of the Sun and Moon differ by 180°).[3] This means that the lunar hemisphere facing Earth – the near side – is completely sunlit and appears as a circular disk. The full moon occurs roughly once a month."
So, in the first sentence a full moon is described as a lunar phase, meaning it is a period of time lasting several days (around 7.4 days according to the Lunar phase article).
But in the following sentences a full moon is described as a point in time where something specific happens, thus with no time span whatsoever. (The descriptions are rather lax, though, with stuff like "completely sunlit" (which can logically never happen, as then we have a lunar eclipse, a solar eclipse on the moon), so the descriptions about the point-in-time full moon should also be clarified).
So there are two separate and quite distinct, although related, meanings of the words "full moon", but they are mysteriously conflated without even mentioning that they are two distinct concepts. That's really odd.
Anyway, it should be fixed. I'm just unsure of the proper Wikipedian way of writing the lead in an article about two distinct, but closely related, concepts with the same name.
-- Jhertel ( talk) 23:10, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
The Full Moon is what we see when the Earth facing side of the Moon is at its maximum visibility as seen from Earth during a given orbit. I say that because it’s orbital inclination is approximately 5.145° which means in almost every case, we never see a 100% visible moon during a full moon.
That can only occur during a total lunar eclipse and being at the right location at the right time. For that to happen, one must be at the right location at the right time and the Moon must be within the right latitudes around the ecliptic.
While the average person might not visually tell the difference between a moon that’s 96%+ or 100% full with unaided eyes over the span of several days/nights (save for lunar eclipses which appear dark due to Earth’s shadow and red due to atmospheric light refraction), it’s obvious for those with sharp vision and/or optical equipment.
Yet the photos obviously show the Moon’s Earth-facing side not being completely sunlit as either the east, west, north or south of the Moon is hidden in darkness as those portions aren’t reflecting any sunlight.
All in all, the term full moon appears to be a misnomer in most cases as it’s only truly possible if viewed at the right location on Earth at the right time during the right lunar eclipse.
The article needed a big fix as it stated something we almost never see. It would be more common to see a 100% full moon from a given location on Earth if it’s orbital inclination were 0° relative to the ecliptic. Yet as written far below the page, it’s a moment that never lasts. 67.235.204.246 ( talk) 10:14, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Harvest moon and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 15#Harvest moon until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) ( talk) 19:42, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
It says there’s still some dark spot when there isn’t a lunar eclipse.
Well first of all, a spot is a point, and second of all, how much of it that appears dark during a full moon depends not only on where the Moon is in its orbit, but where you’re viewing it.
The only way you can’t see a dark section during a lunar eclipse is if the Moon is at the very center of the anti-solar point (the opposite of the Sun’s position), which rarely ever happens and you have to be at the right place on Earth at the right time. Even during an ultra-central lunar eclipse, very few places will ever see the moon apparently making a bull’s eye with the anti-solar point even though it hits the center of Earth’s shadow no matter where you are during so.
You gotta think about parallax and how the Moon is much closer to Earth than even the nearest stars (including the Sun), so where it is relative to background points in the sky varies depending on where you view the Moon from.
Yet diurnal libration (caused by Earth’s rotation) also adds to the fact that only limited places get such spot on views of the Moon during ultra-central lunar eclipses (where the portion unilluminated by sunlight of any means) is too small for even high quality digital cameras to detect.
Truth to be told, the “spot” that isn’t illuminated by the sun never disappears from view unless you’re at the right place at the right time during a lunar eclipse. Eric Nelson27 ( talk) 13:39, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
particularly where you are during any total lunar eclipse. Central, even more so Eric Nelson27 ( talk) 13:42, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 September 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): WZ2372 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by WZ2372 ( talk) 14:19, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
I've added material (with references) for full moon names attributed to indigenous North Americans. There's quite a lot of information, and given the limited geographical scope (and the dubious nature of some of the sources), I wonder if there should instead be a separate new article for these folk names. The material I've added is in the section headed "Farmers Almanacs", which again seems out of place, since the Maine Farmers Almanac claimed its 1937 list was of traditional English names (though they were neither traditional nor English). I also think that the big table of moon names in that section should be removed, since all it shows is that various authors have suggested lots of names that are not well substantiated. Cheeselymoon ( talk) 21:33, 27 April 2024 (UTC)