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I'm not going to revert again, but I really think that this is excessive detail. Regarding Fooboo's edit summary when reverting me ('Reverted - Cornwall is a country Dublin is not') - I understand that it's a somewhat thorny issue, but officially Cornwall is a county within England, just as Dublin is a county (as well as a city) within Ireland. I could just as easily create a section differentiating a 'Full Galway Breakfast' from a 'Full Dublin Breakfast', but that would really open the floodgates to an absolutely huge article with lots of pointless ephemera in it. In addition to this the description of 'Cornish potato cakes' - well, those are just potato cakes, the same as the ones you get anywhere in the UK or Ireland. In fact the only 'real' difference is the addition of hogs pudding which is quite similar to black pudding as found elsewhere. Thoughts? Kaini ( talk) 00:45, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Hog's pudding is nothing like black pudding, the only vague similarity is the shape. They are different in taste, colour, size, and texture. I get 116,000 hits on google for "Full Cornish Breakfast", but only 38,300 for "Full Welsh Breakfast", yet the only thing different about the Welsh one is the addition of Laverbread (the reference given doesn't even refer to breakfast). Indeed if you read this link, http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/tm_objectid=16289602&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=so-what-is-a--full-welsh-breakfast---name_page.html, you'll realise that it's not even a "traditional Welsh breakfast." 86.184.8.129 ( talk) 11:21, 30 July 2012 (UTC) and reading the article again it would seem that the Scottish breakfast isn't that dissimilar to the Cornish one and the same arguments that you are trying to use could be used there as well: "In Scotland the full breakfast; as with others contains eggs, back bacon, link sausage, buttered toast, baked beans and tea or coffee. The breakfast is made Scottish by the addition of Scottish style black pudding, sliced sausage and tattie scones. It commonly also includes fried or grilled tomato and/or mushrooms and occasionally haggis, white pudding, fruit pudding or oatcakes. As with other breakfasts it has become more common, especially within the home, to grill the meats, puddings and tomatoes and to only fry the eggs and tattie scones." 86.184.8.129 ( talk) 11:28, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
P.S. No results found for "Full Galway Breakfast" on Google 86.184.8.129 ( talk) 11:55, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
sorted out the dodgy refs and some WP:MOS stuff. Kaini ( talk) 21:17, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Since this seems to have cropped back up... There is no reason for a "Full Cornish" to be an addition alongside England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Regardless of how poor the references were (food blogs, random local news articles, hotel menu PDFs...), Cornwall is merely a county of England; if we were to add all the counties offering a "Full Breakfast", we'd need to have a "Full Yorkshire", "Full Devon(shire)", a "Full Dorset", and tens of others — every county in England has their own local variation named this way. There is nothing special about Cornwall, and details about various breakfasts should go into Cornish cuisine, not here. GhostOfNoMeme ( talk) 03:15, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Couldn't a simple solution be to have a short paragraph noting some of the regional variants? It makes the topic more interesting, it shows that there's regional variation which ties to the culinary AND economic/industrial history of the region. Cornish can be under the main English section with the note that it includes Hog's pudding and cornish potato cakes? There are eastern Scottish regions with red pudding, the aformentioned Yorkshire and other variants from regions with still strong uniqueness. Or even just a section explaining the variants. It's more than just the food, really, it's culture and history. Just my two cents. Forceten ( talk) 14:11, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
I can't understand why this keeps being removed from here, even though there are ample sources online clearly showing it to be included as part of a Full (English, at least) breakfast, never mind the fact that the Wikipedia page for bubble and squeak itself clearly depicts and describing it as accompanying a Full breakfast -- Theudariks ( talk) 04:49, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
@ RiverCityRelay: "Traditional" is not a meaningful term. The article says it became widely popular only after WWII, and uses scare quotes around the term precisely because of this. The article already uses the term "substantial" in the lead sentence, which obviously does not mean "tasty" nor "made of substances", but rather "ample and nourishing... large and heavy". That is in fact the very first definition (A.I.1) in the OED. -- Macrakis ( talk) 21:30, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Bacon and eggs (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 16:00, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
I've trimmed this hard for bloat and original research, reorganized a bit, requests citations for some things. I removed the long uncited list of foods because those can go into prose if they have support. Valereee ( talk) 20:09, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
This article lacks a section about the health issues of full breakfast. Is it a healthy or hazardous meal? AnnaBruta ( talk) 13:17, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
I have revived the text on regional variations which was trimmed in February/March 2023, seemingly without discussion and for unstated reasons (apologies if I have missed something). The reduced text was also misleading and incorrect (e.g. reducing much of the Ireland text to "Breakfast rolls" and introducing an Ulster subsection separate to Ireland).
In my opinion, the regional variations section needs additions rather than "trimming", the North American section should be expanded and I'm sure that further subsections for a number of commonwealth nations apposite. Finally, I am unsure how to deal with England in this section, I would think that variations within the English regions would be a better approach (I know that West Midlands breakfasts are considered their own thing) but this is not my area so I'll leave it to contributors with a better understanding of the variations within England. Cymrogogoch ( talk) 11:40, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Full breakfast article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Full breakfast. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Full breakfast at the Reference desk. |
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I'm not going to revert again, but I really think that this is excessive detail. Regarding Fooboo's edit summary when reverting me ('Reverted - Cornwall is a country Dublin is not') - I understand that it's a somewhat thorny issue, but officially Cornwall is a county within England, just as Dublin is a county (as well as a city) within Ireland. I could just as easily create a section differentiating a 'Full Galway Breakfast' from a 'Full Dublin Breakfast', but that would really open the floodgates to an absolutely huge article with lots of pointless ephemera in it. In addition to this the description of 'Cornish potato cakes' - well, those are just potato cakes, the same as the ones you get anywhere in the UK or Ireland. In fact the only 'real' difference is the addition of hogs pudding which is quite similar to black pudding as found elsewhere. Thoughts? Kaini ( talk) 00:45, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Hog's pudding is nothing like black pudding, the only vague similarity is the shape. They are different in taste, colour, size, and texture. I get 116,000 hits on google for "Full Cornish Breakfast", but only 38,300 for "Full Welsh Breakfast", yet the only thing different about the Welsh one is the addition of Laverbread (the reference given doesn't even refer to breakfast). Indeed if you read this link, http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/tm_objectid=16289602&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=so-what-is-a--full-welsh-breakfast---name_page.html, you'll realise that it's not even a "traditional Welsh breakfast." 86.184.8.129 ( talk) 11:21, 30 July 2012 (UTC) and reading the article again it would seem that the Scottish breakfast isn't that dissimilar to the Cornish one and the same arguments that you are trying to use could be used there as well: "In Scotland the full breakfast; as with others contains eggs, back bacon, link sausage, buttered toast, baked beans and tea or coffee. The breakfast is made Scottish by the addition of Scottish style black pudding, sliced sausage and tattie scones. It commonly also includes fried or grilled tomato and/or mushrooms and occasionally haggis, white pudding, fruit pudding or oatcakes. As with other breakfasts it has become more common, especially within the home, to grill the meats, puddings and tomatoes and to only fry the eggs and tattie scones." 86.184.8.129 ( talk) 11:28, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
P.S. No results found for "Full Galway Breakfast" on Google 86.184.8.129 ( talk) 11:55, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
sorted out the dodgy refs and some WP:MOS stuff. Kaini ( talk) 21:17, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Since this seems to have cropped back up... There is no reason for a "Full Cornish" to be an addition alongside England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Regardless of how poor the references were (food blogs, random local news articles, hotel menu PDFs...), Cornwall is merely a county of England; if we were to add all the counties offering a "Full Breakfast", we'd need to have a "Full Yorkshire", "Full Devon(shire)", a "Full Dorset", and tens of others — every county in England has their own local variation named this way. There is nothing special about Cornwall, and details about various breakfasts should go into Cornish cuisine, not here. GhostOfNoMeme ( talk) 03:15, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Couldn't a simple solution be to have a short paragraph noting some of the regional variants? It makes the topic more interesting, it shows that there's regional variation which ties to the culinary AND economic/industrial history of the region. Cornish can be under the main English section with the note that it includes Hog's pudding and cornish potato cakes? There are eastern Scottish regions with red pudding, the aformentioned Yorkshire and other variants from regions with still strong uniqueness. Or even just a section explaining the variants. It's more than just the food, really, it's culture and history. Just my two cents. Forceten ( talk) 14:11, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
I can't understand why this keeps being removed from here, even though there are ample sources online clearly showing it to be included as part of a Full (English, at least) breakfast, never mind the fact that the Wikipedia page for bubble and squeak itself clearly depicts and describing it as accompanying a Full breakfast -- Theudariks ( talk) 04:49, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
@ RiverCityRelay: "Traditional" is not a meaningful term. The article says it became widely popular only after WWII, and uses scare quotes around the term precisely because of this. The article already uses the term "substantial" in the lead sentence, which obviously does not mean "tasty" nor "made of substances", but rather "ample and nourishing... large and heavy". That is in fact the very first definition (A.I.1) in the OED. -- Macrakis ( talk) 21:30, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Bacon and eggs (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 16:00, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
I've trimmed this hard for bloat and original research, reorganized a bit, requests citations for some things. I removed the long uncited list of foods because those can go into prose if they have support. Valereee ( talk) 20:09, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
This article lacks a section about the health issues of full breakfast. Is it a healthy or hazardous meal? AnnaBruta ( talk) 13:17, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
I have revived the text on regional variations which was trimmed in February/March 2023, seemingly without discussion and for unstated reasons (apologies if I have missed something). The reduced text was also misleading and incorrect (e.g. reducing much of the Ireland text to "Breakfast rolls" and introducing an Ulster subsection separate to Ireland).
In my opinion, the regional variations section needs additions rather than "trimming", the North American section should be expanded and I'm sure that further subsections for a number of commonwealth nations apposite. Finally, I am unsure how to deal with England in this section, I would think that variations within the English regions would be a better approach (I know that West Midlands breakfasts are considered their own thing) but this is not my area so I'll leave it to contributors with a better understanding of the variations within England. Cymrogogoch ( talk) 11:40, 6 September 2023 (UTC)