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Fred Guttenberg article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Needs photo.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 00:10, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
Let's see if he continues to gain press as an advocate. The Stoneman Douglas shooting appears to be triggering real change and a whole new level of protest against the gun culture. Legacypac ( talk) 18:33, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
I agree it's far too soon to have an article on this subject, and can foresee an eventual merge/redirect into the article on the shooting, 2018 United States gun violence protests, or something similar. I once tweeted my thoughts to Donald Trump, and appeared in a newspaper once, still waiting for my Wikipedia article. --Animalparty! ( talk) 22:10, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
Again, the same person is creating these articles with very little sourcing and passing them off as major activists. This particular individual hasn't had anything reported on in several days that hasn't already been repeated in the main article. Waiting until the start of May seems like a good compromise before creating dozens of articles for students and individuals we won't hear from ever again. 100.33.114.169 ( talk) 01:38, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
Recently Guttenberg's birthday and age were added -- problem is, these are primary sources; we'd be much better off if a newspaper listed his birthday or some other reliable secondary source. The effect is, is that Wikipedians are making his birthday an issue, while the news media generally isn't making his birthday an issue (so adding his bday is essentially our original research). Remember this is a BLP and there are issues regarding privacy.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:02, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
Why is it that we can’t mention his Jewish heritage here, while other Jewish gun control activists get a mention of it? We could put it in the personal life section. It is sourced.22:16, 8 September 2018 (UTC) 2605:6001:EB41:A800:25EC:6887:4F1F:1137 ( talk)
"It's irrelevant". Can you please tell me why it is irrelevant? Bus stop ( talk) 00:31, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
"Both sources are biased towards Jewish-related news", that is not even a remote approximation of what "bias" is. There is no opinion being expressed by these sources when they assert that Guttenberg is Jewish. Do you know of a source suggesting that Guttenberg might not be Jewish? Bus stop ( talk) 21:52, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
"highlight[ing] the religion"of Guttenberg. But—straw man argument alert—no one said anything about "religion". Sources say he is "Jewish", not "religious". And we are not "highlighting" anything. We are stating a fact, supported by sources. You can't present inapplicable policy as if it were a valid argument. WP:DUEWEIGHT has nothing to do with what we are discussing. No sources suggest that Guttenberg might not be Jewish. Bus stop ( talk) 17:26, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
"important enough and relevant enough to include in this encyclopedia article"because multiple sources support the assertion that Guttenberg is Jewish. I find yet another source reading "The Guttenberg family, whose daughter Jamie was killed in the shooting, are members of the Reform congregation."
Comment. I hope nobody minds but I've requested wider input here. Bus stop ( talk) 14:54, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
"particularly important to ... his activism (the reason for his notability)"?You have not fully responded to the question I posed.
"Because, honestly, the overlap between 'people who don't like Jews' and 'people who support violence' is not negligible, so this wouldn't be like writing 'Guttenberg wears glasses'."Are you saying we should be cautious about informing the reader that Guttenberg is Jewish? I would respond simply that the USA is a place of Law and order (politics). Bus stop ( talk) 17:38, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
"his activism"and what does that have to do with
"the reason for his notability"? Incidentally the edits that were made and then reverted did not contain the terms "heritage" or "religion". Bus stop ( talk) 19:00, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
"For most people, their job is important because it keeps them fed and clothed, and they spend a major fraction of their time on it. If you can show the same for his Jewishness, I will support inclusion."We are not writing about "most people". We are writing about the subject of the biography. And I don't have to show you the same for Jewishness. You don't get to decide what is important to the subject of a biography. Bus stop ( talk) 21:12, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
"Jewish-based"to be unreliable? Believe it or not we are not a shallow resource. Our remit is to compile relevant information—not to fight tooth and nail to keep information out of articles. Bus stop ( talk) 13:18, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
@ Chrisrow: Updated to nicer pic I actually think the first picture is better, mainly because it shows more of the subject's face. In the second picture, his face is smaller, and has sunglasses that cover his eyes. -- GRuban ( talk) 17:04, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps you're right. Just thought it would be a clearer, higher-res pic.
Mucho bueno. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisrow ( talk • contribs) 22:21, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Fred Guttenberg article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to governmental regulation of firearm ownership; the social, historical and political context of such regulation; and the people and organizations associated with these issues, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
Needs photo.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 00:10, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
Let's see if he continues to gain press as an advocate. The Stoneman Douglas shooting appears to be triggering real change and a whole new level of protest against the gun culture. Legacypac ( talk) 18:33, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
I agree it's far too soon to have an article on this subject, and can foresee an eventual merge/redirect into the article on the shooting, 2018 United States gun violence protests, or something similar. I once tweeted my thoughts to Donald Trump, and appeared in a newspaper once, still waiting for my Wikipedia article. --Animalparty! ( talk) 22:10, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
Again, the same person is creating these articles with very little sourcing and passing them off as major activists. This particular individual hasn't had anything reported on in several days that hasn't already been repeated in the main article. Waiting until the start of May seems like a good compromise before creating dozens of articles for students and individuals we won't hear from ever again. 100.33.114.169 ( talk) 01:38, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
Recently Guttenberg's birthday and age were added -- problem is, these are primary sources; we'd be much better off if a newspaper listed his birthday or some other reliable secondary source. The effect is, is that Wikipedians are making his birthday an issue, while the news media generally isn't making his birthday an issue (so adding his bday is essentially our original research). Remember this is a BLP and there are issues regarding privacy.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 12:02, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
Why is it that we can’t mention his Jewish heritage here, while other Jewish gun control activists get a mention of it? We could put it in the personal life section. It is sourced.22:16, 8 September 2018 (UTC) 2605:6001:EB41:A800:25EC:6887:4F1F:1137 ( talk)
"It's irrelevant". Can you please tell me why it is irrelevant? Bus stop ( talk) 00:31, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
"Both sources are biased towards Jewish-related news", that is not even a remote approximation of what "bias" is. There is no opinion being expressed by these sources when they assert that Guttenberg is Jewish. Do you know of a source suggesting that Guttenberg might not be Jewish? Bus stop ( talk) 21:52, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
"highlight[ing] the religion"of Guttenberg. But—straw man argument alert—no one said anything about "religion". Sources say he is "Jewish", not "religious". And we are not "highlighting" anything. We are stating a fact, supported by sources. You can't present inapplicable policy as if it were a valid argument. WP:DUEWEIGHT has nothing to do with what we are discussing. No sources suggest that Guttenberg might not be Jewish. Bus stop ( talk) 17:26, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
"important enough and relevant enough to include in this encyclopedia article"because multiple sources support the assertion that Guttenberg is Jewish. I find yet another source reading "The Guttenberg family, whose daughter Jamie was killed in the shooting, are members of the Reform congregation."
Comment. I hope nobody minds but I've requested wider input here. Bus stop ( talk) 14:54, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
"particularly important to ... his activism (the reason for his notability)"?You have not fully responded to the question I posed.
"Because, honestly, the overlap between 'people who don't like Jews' and 'people who support violence' is not negligible, so this wouldn't be like writing 'Guttenberg wears glasses'."Are you saying we should be cautious about informing the reader that Guttenberg is Jewish? I would respond simply that the USA is a place of Law and order (politics). Bus stop ( talk) 17:38, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
"his activism"and what does that have to do with
"the reason for his notability"? Incidentally the edits that were made and then reverted did not contain the terms "heritage" or "religion". Bus stop ( talk) 19:00, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
"For most people, their job is important because it keeps them fed and clothed, and they spend a major fraction of their time on it. If you can show the same for his Jewishness, I will support inclusion."We are not writing about "most people". We are writing about the subject of the biography. And I don't have to show you the same for Jewishness. You don't get to decide what is important to the subject of a biography. Bus stop ( talk) 21:12, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
"Jewish-based"to be unreliable? Believe it or not we are not a shallow resource. Our remit is to compile relevant information—not to fight tooth and nail to keep information out of articles. Bus stop ( talk) 13:18, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
@ Chrisrow: Updated to nicer pic I actually think the first picture is better, mainly because it shows more of the subject's face. In the second picture, his face is smaller, and has sunglasses that cover his eyes. -- GRuban ( talk) 17:04, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps you're right. Just thought it would be a clearer, higher-res pic.
Mucho bueno. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisrow ( talk • contribs) 22:21, 12 January 2019 (UTC)