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@
Netherzone @
CT55555 this was another Possibly project, albeit one they adopted after some major COI edits vs. created. I just had the chance to hear Baez speak on a panel and I feel like this article could cover her much better. I fixed some basic issues and then found
this article. If you two are interested/have time, this could be a fun one for us to tag team on. StarMississippi01:26, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Excellent. I'll take a look tomorrow. Thanks for the ping. As you probably realise by now, this is exactly how I like to spend my time here.
CT55555(
talk)
01:33, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Hey y'all! Great additions to the page - just flagging though, the gallery section that was just created will likely have to be cut. The pictures featured probably shouldn't be hosted on Commons due to copyright restrictions. Báez was commissioned to create the pictured works by the MTA, which gives the MTA the right to publish photos of the work, as they regularly do on Flickr. But because Báez still owns the copyright for those mosaics, the pictures are technically non-free content as it was photographed in the United States (no freedom of panorama). Y'all seem more experienced than me in editing artist biographies, but I've run into this issue with MTA-created photos of art in the past.
19h00s (
talk)
15:19, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
I am trying (badly) to create the gallery. I am no intellectual property expert, but are you really saying that people don't own the copyright of photos they take of the art? That seems very unlikely. I can take a photo of the Mona Lisa and own the copyright of that photo, even though I don't own the painting or its IP.
CT55555(
talk)
15:22, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
@
CT55555, I think we had an edit conflict which may be why the gallery did not format properly (?) @
19h00s is correct that artists own the copyrights to their works (for a certain amount of years, I think ~70) even if someone else photographs the work. The photographer may own the rights to the photo, but the artist retains the copyrights to their original work.
Netherzone (
talk)
15:33, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
But the gallery doesn't contain the work, it contains a photo of the work. I have no expertise here, so this is an attempt to understand, not me saying anyone is wrong.
CT55555(
talk)
15:44, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
It wasn't the edit conflict that caused the gallery issues. It's more my lack of skill. I'm leaving it up in the hope that someone can fix it, but if there is an IP issue, I think that should be dealt with via a deletion discussion about the file, not here. Right?
CT55555(
talk)
15:46, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Hi again! Yes, I am saying that the photographer does not own the copyright to these photographs. If a work of art is still in copyright, local laws govern the authorship and copyright rules for mechanical reproductions (photographs) of that art. In the United States there is no freedom of panorama, which is the legal principle allowing for people to publish photographs they've made that contain permanently, publicly exhibited, copyrighted art. You can read more about it on the Commons explainer page
here. But in this case, Báez owns the copyright for the tiled mosaics that are displayed in the MTA system - the MTA published photos of those works, as is their right as the commissioning party. But the MTA does not own the underlying copyright to those photographs, as they are mechanical reproductions of the copyrighted works of art. Without freedom of panorama laws, photographers cannot publish images of copyrighted art without explicit permission from the rights holder, nor can they claim copyright for the photographs - clearly the MTA has communicated with Báez and she allowed them to publish these images, but that doesn't mean she has released the underlying copyright to allow other parties (Commons users) to publish these or other photos of the works.
19h00s (
talk)
16:08, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Definitely, if there's compelling or substantive discussion of one of the mosaic tile works, a photo could be uploaded as a non-free fair use image directly to English Wikipedia (not Commons). First though, they'd need to be
sized down significantly to be in line with the
non-free content criteria, in addition to several other rules and guidelines - I previously added the fair use image that's currently on the page, as there were no visual examples of her work, but that can be deleted if you want to add more info about the mosaics and then include a fair use image. Additionally, non-free images cannot be used in an article's gallery section - that's a system limitation to stop people from uploading multiple non-free images that aren't directly commented on in the article. --
19h00s (
talk)
16:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
OK thanks to you and @
Netherzone for the explanation. This has been a learning experience about the strange ways of US copyright law. I'll keep an eye out today in case the cops rock up to bust me. If this is my last post here, then it's been fun and I take full responsibility for my crimes. lol. Peace.
CT55555(
talk)
16:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
You two are wizards, you know that right? I don't know if we have barnstars for that, so I'm using actual words :D Thank you for loving art as much as I do.
@
19h00s, I swapped out the image of the MTA glass-tile mural with a small-sized fair-use image (within non-free specifications) for the larger image. If you have a moment to check the new image to insure it's the correct licensing, it would be appreciated. I think there is enough discussion in the article about the work to substantiate its use in the article. If not, I will improve.
Netherzone (
talk)
17:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Wiki Education assignment: Latinx Art and Activism
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2023 and 6 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
ArtLover11 (
article contribs).
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article was created or improved during the
Art + Activism edit-a-thon hosted by the Women in Red project in March 2023. The editor(s) involved may be new; please
assume good faith regarding their contributions before making changes.Women in RedWikipedia:WikiProject Women in RedTemplate:WikiProject Women in RedWomen in Red articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women artists, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women artists on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women artistsWikipedia:WikiProject Women artistsTemplate:WikiProject Women artistsWomen artists articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the countries of the
Caribbean on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the
welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.CaribbeanWikipedia:WikiProject CaribbeanTemplate:WikiProject CaribbeanCaribbean articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sculpture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Sculpture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SculptureWikipedia:WikiProject SculptureTemplate:WikiProject Sculpturesculpture articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
U.S. state of
New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Wikipedia:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state) articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Visual arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
visual arts on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Visual artsWikipedia:WikiProject Visual artsTemplate:WikiProject Visual artsvisual arts articles
@
Netherzone @
CT55555 this was another Possibly project, albeit one they adopted after some major COI edits vs. created. I just had the chance to hear Baez speak on a panel and I feel like this article could cover her much better. I fixed some basic issues and then found
this article. If you two are interested/have time, this could be a fun one for us to tag team on. StarMississippi01:26, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Excellent. I'll take a look tomorrow. Thanks for the ping. As you probably realise by now, this is exactly how I like to spend my time here.
CT55555(
talk)
01:33, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Hey y'all! Great additions to the page - just flagging though, the gallery section that was just created will likely have to be cut. The pictures featured probably shouldn't be hosted on Commons due to copyright restrictions. Báez was commissioned to create the pictured works by the MTA, which gives the MTA the right to publish photos of the work, as they regularly do on Flickr. But because Báez still owns the copyright for those mosaics, the pictures are technically non-free content as it was photographed in the United States (no freedom of panorama). Y'all seem more experienced than me in editing artist biographies, but I've run into this issue with MTA-created photos of art in the past.
19h00s (
talk)
15:19, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
I am trying (badly) to create the gallery. I am no intellectual property expert, but are you really saying that people don't own the copyright of photos they take of the art? That seems very unlikely. I can take a photo of the Mona Lisa and own the copyright of that photo, even though I don't own the painting or its IP.
CT55555(
talk)
15:22, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
@
CT55555, I think we had an edit conflict which may be why the gallery did not format properly (?) @
19h00s is correct that artists own the copyrights to their works (for a certain amount of years, I think ~70) even if someone else photographs the work. The photographer may own the rights to the photo, but the artist retains the copyrights to their original work.
Netherzone (
talk)
15:33, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
But the gallery doesn't contain the work, it contains a photo of the work. I have no expertise here, so this is an attempt to understand, not me saying anyone is wrong.
CT55555(
talk)
15:44, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
It wasn't the edit conflict that caused the gallery issues. It's more my lack of skill. I'm leaving it up in the hope that someone can fix it, but if there is an IP issue, I think that should be dealt with via a deletion discussion about the file, not here. Right?
CT55555(
talk)
15:46, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Hi again! Yes, I am saying that the photographer does not own the copyright to these photographs. If a work of art is still in copyright, local laws govern the authorship and copyright rules for mechanical reproductions (photographs) of that art. In the United States there is no freedom of panorama, which is the legal principle allowing for people to publish photographs they've made that contain permanently, publicly exhibited, copyrighted art. You can read more about it on the Commons explainer page
here. But in this case, Báez owns the copyright for the tiled mosaics that are displayed in the MTA system - the MTA published photos of those works, as is their right as the commissioning party. But the MTA does not own the underlying copyright to those photographs, as they are mechanical reproductions of the copyrighted works of art. Without freedom of panorama laws, photographers cannot publish images of copyrighted art without explicit permission from the rights holder, nor can they claim copyright for the photographs - clearly the MTA has communicated with Báez and she allowed them to publish these images, but that doesn't mean she has released the underlying copyright to allow other parties (Commons users) to publish these or other photos of the works.
19h00s (
talk)
16:08, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Definitely, if there's compelling or substantive discussion of one of the mosaic tile works, a photo could be uploaded as a non-free fair use image directly to English Wikipedia (not Commons). First though, they'd need to be
sized down significantly to be in line with the
non-free content criteria, in addition to several other rules and guidelines - I previously added the fair use image that's currently on the page, as there were no visual examples of her work, but that can be deleted if you want to add more info about the mosaics and then include a fair use image. Additionally, non-free images cannot be used in an article's gallery section - that's a system limitation to stop people from uploading multiple non-free images that aren't directly commented on in the article. --
19h00s (
talk)
16:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
OK thanks to you and @
Netherzone for the explanation. This has been a learning experience about the strange ways of US copyright law. I'll keep an eye out today in case the cops rock up to bust me. If this is my last post here, then it's been fun and I take full responsibility for my crimes. lol. Peace.
CT55555(
talk)
16:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
You two are wizards, you know that right? I don't know if we have barnstars for that, so I'm using actual words :D Thank you for loving art as much as I do.
@
19h00s, I swapped out the image of the MTA glass-tile mural with a small-sized fair-use image (within non-free specifications) for the larger image. If you have a moment to check the new image to insure it's the correct licensing, it would be appreciated. I think there is enough discussion in the article about the work to substantiate its use in the article. If not, I will improve.
Netherzone (
talk)
17:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)reply
Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Wiki Education assignment: Latinx Art and Activism
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2023 and 6 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
ArtLover11 (
article contribs).