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Text is inconsistent - one line claims Greek origin, the next line says Turkish. I've no Idea which, but it ain't both.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Igodard ( talk • contribs) 05:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Should this be moved to Fez (hat), or is there another article of clothing known as a "fez"? Dysprosia 14:08, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)
"About 980AD, the haj was interruped by the crusades, and the pilgrimages of those living west of the Nile were directed to Fez as to the Holy City."
The First Crusade didn't start until 1096, so I'm not sure how that works. Adam Bishop 14:48, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I agree. Not everything can be laid to the Franks. Better look into local conditions in Tripolitania and Cyrenaica ca 980 to see how the meghrib could become effectively cut off from Egypt and the Red Sea. An interestimg development. A reference would be good. User:Wetman.
Two miscellaneous fez facts, one rather unpleasant and one rather silly and commercial:
1. There is a nasty anti-Islamic myth (promulgated by, among others, Jack Chick) that the original fezzes were dyed with the blood of Christians. There is no truth to it.
2. You can get (cheap nylon) fezzes from Archie McPhee: http://www.mcphee.com/ or (expensive wool) fezzes from http://www.hatsinthebelfry.com/. -- FOo 00:03, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
How do you know it's a myth? Sources please. It should be mentioned in the article, myth or not.
Why is the fez often used in pop culture (e.g. Goofy and Ren Hoek wearing them) to denote relaxation? -- Abdull 21:04, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
How about adding a reference to Matt Groening's cartoon characters Akbar and Jeff? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_in_Hell — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.161.65 ( talk) 03:06, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
You Mean like in Doctor Who? Such as #SaveTheDay David Tennant http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/3e/f7/0a/3ef70ab8595c0ee384474c9750cdf845.jpg
1963 https://www.scifinow.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/p00v27md.jpg William Hartnell
2013 https://kitchenoverlord.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/doctor-who-fez.png Matt Smith
Alex Kingston http://images.amcnetworks.com/bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/files/2015/06/AlexKingston.jpg
-- Timelord2067 ( talk) 01:43, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
I prefer the German method of naming the Fez: de:Fes (Kopfbedeckung). That translates Fez (headgear). That's my suggestion for the move. GilliamJF 03:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The fez is also worn in Albania. There is no mention of this in the article. Albanians are not Slavs nor Bosniacs.
There is a picture of a man sporting a fez on this page. I noticed the same picture on the page for "Bedouin." The captions seem to differ on the nationality of the young man. Which needs to be fixed? I'd infer the man was probably Moroccan.
The article at one point starts using the word "checheya" without saying what it is. Could someone please add an explanation? -- LakeHMM 04:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi, jst looking at the third picture 'An old-fashioned Hyderabadi Muslim gentleman wearing an everyday sherwani and fez hat'. This guy is not wearing anything on his head. Following the picture it looks like there is some picture vandalism. The original picture is
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/8/81/20051212174328%21Sherwani.jpg
I am not too sure how to fix this, because I am not too familiar with the handling of pictures in wikipedia. Can somebody take care of this ? 137.132.3.11 12:11, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, done. You might want to watch Image:Sherwani.jpg deniz T C 13:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
The origin of fez is the city Fes, Morocco as the Turkish Official Dictionary, Online Etymology dictionary and Nişanyan's etmyologic dictionary said.
Ruzgar 01:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually, in ancient Mesopotamia, around 1000-600 B.C. (the Later Babylonian and Assyrian period), the men wore a high brimless hat similar to the fez or tarbush of today. In Assyrian art, this hat sometimes is shown with broad bands of fabric hanging down the back.
("Survey of Historic Costume: Fourth Edition" by Phyllis G. Tortora and Keith Eubank).
[RoseGirl]: 03:50, 20 April 2008
Until the 19th century it was the only source of Fez hats (also known as the tarboosh), before they began to be manufactured in France and Turkey; originally, the dye for the hats came from a berry that was grown outside the city, known as the Turkish kizziljiek or Greek akenia (Cornus mascula). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omansouri ( talk • contribs) 05:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how it's named after but as an Anatolian native it's so clear me that it roots back somewhere in Anatolia, 3500 year old Komagene sculptures in Adiyaman wear fez-like headgears. Wiki turns in to a pseudo encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.60.88.221 ( talk) 18:16, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Your references : no on can check them The form is not really the same and I have one question : Why turkish called this hat Fez ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.238.127.175 ( talk) 06:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Why does the second picture have a caption saying the man is from Morocco? The picture description implies he's from Israel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.96.46 ( talk) 23:58, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
This hat is from morocco —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.254.195 ( talk) 04:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
This article is specifically about the fez, not about all brimless, more or less cylindrical or conical hats. The fez has a specific historical context, in particular, as headgear promulgated by Mahmut II in the 1820/30s. That headgear had its origins in North Africa (according to Reliable Sources). It would be interesting to learn more (from Reliable Sources) about its history in North Africa. Just noting that it looks like some hat in an ancient Assyrian frieze, or (even more vaguely) like the hat Mussolini wore, is not helpful. There needs to be some documented connection. -- Macrakis ( talk) 03:35, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
I changed the article text to show that the fez was often manufactured in Strakonice, Czech Republic (then part of the Austrian Empire). I saw an exhibit on this in the STrakonice Museum and the Wikipedia article on Strakonice identifies it as "a main production site for fez hats". — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Poniatowski (
talk •
contribs)
16:06, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
the word طربوش is used in all Arabic dialects not only in egyptian !! so don't write "egyptian arbic" sorry for my bad English i hope you understand what i mean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.192.211.85 ( talk) 23:33, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
This page seems to become a picture gallery for men wearing a fez. There are 6 essentially identical pictures. Why? I'm taking down one of the most irrelevant. Nickrz ( talk) 20:55, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
I have seen a man, among a group of Arabic-speaking people, wearing a red fez which, together with its black tassel, was apparently made of knitted wool rather than felt. Perhaps this is worn in winter in Muslim countries. Personal observations are not reliable sources, but such may exist for on knitted fezzes. Barney Bruchstein ( talk) 11:31, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
As of 2017-04-12 the section on "History" includes, "Because the area is defensible it has been occupied since Roman times, although the modern Islamic city [of Fez] was created by invading Muslims from two opposing settlements around 818 ACE."
What's ACE in this context?
The article on Fez, Morocco says, "Arab emigration to Fez, including 800 Andalusi families of Berber descent in 817–818 expelled after a rebellion against the Umayyads of Córdoba, Andalusia, ... gave the city its Arabic character." From the context, it's clear that this was 818 CE or AD.
I found one other use of ACE associated with a date that clearly refers to CE and only one use of AD. I'll change both ACE and AD to CE for consistency. If someone knows better, I trust they will take appropriate action. DavidMCEddy ( talk) 14:12, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
"Besides ṭarbūsh, the fez can also be defined in Arabic shashia (i)stanbuli." 2600:1700:E1C0:F340:E5BC:ADD9:A126:1722 ( talk) 20:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 02:21, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
In August 1938, at the height of the insurgency, the rebel leadership commanded all townsmen to discard the tarbush and don the kufiya. The order was issued to help the rebels blend in when they entered the cities, but it was also a move in the wider social struggle… Official colonial sources, which noted that the fashion spread with "lightning rapidity," saw this more as the result of a conspiracy than as a manifestation of the spirit of unity (Palestine Post, 2 September 1938). Once the rebellion ended, the effendis of the town reassumed the tarnish, owing in part to British pressure (Morton 1957:98-100).
As British forces triumphed over rebel bands by late 1938, they won the sartorial war, helped by Christian merchants in Jerusalem who held a meeting to decide that they would open their shops on Fridays, an act forbidden by rebels, ‘and that they would no longer wear the Kaffiyah and Agal.’ The rebels put one Armenian Christian before a revolu- tionary court ‘for refusing to wear the Arab headdress. The rebels had ordered that non-Arab Christians do so, a demand that was understandably resisted by the Armenians and Greeks.’ By May 1939 the local press was reporting how the tarbush was returning to towns as the most popular form of headdress. Police CID noted the same, reporting how the: "tarbush and takieh [a close-fitting cap that can be worn under a tarbush and that was sometimes worn by the urban proletariat instead of a tarbush] are slowly reappearing in the place of the hatta and agel. In Jenin the townspeople were requested by the District Administration to revert to wearing the tarbush. Public response was encouraging following the example set by Government servants, and there were no untoward incidents. In Haifa notices were posted in the Suk threatening with death any person who wears a tarbush or incites the public to obey the orders of the Government."
@ Zero0000: Per this photo, the Tarbush was still being used in the region as late as 1947. Onceinawhile ( talk) 23:13, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Fez, Morocco which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 19:33, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
// The fez was a symbol not only of Ottoman affiliation but also of religious adherence to Islam.[16] It was also the main headdress for Christians and Jews during the Ottoman Empire.[17] //
Which is it? Islamic or no? 216.8.185.53 ( talk) 13:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
@ Hsjalizs: with regard to this revert:
You're breaking the very policy that you are citing. Where in that source does it say Nonetheless there is the strong likelihood that it was brought to the
Ottoman Empire from
North Africa, as the medieval Turkish historian
Evliya Celebi describes
Algerian men wearing it in the 17th century, thus supporting the Moroccan origin.
?
You're also cherry picking a quote from a source. Here's exactly what it says: "In the same category as the tarboosh, can be placed the fez and the chechia, varying but slightly in shape. Chéchia is the name for the Berber tashashit or skullcap which has a tassel. The Turkish fez, usually red and tufted with or black tassel, got its name from Fez, chief city of Morocco. It was supposed that the dull crimson hue produced by the juice of a berry which grew in the vicinity could not be procured elsewhere, but in recent times the red cap was successfully made in France and Turkey. When the Turks conquered Constantinopole in 1453, they adopted, with modification, the byzantine costume including the Greek cap."
If you take what it and other cited sources say, you'll find that there is no reason to change the way the sourced information is presented.
In North Africa, home of a similar looking hat that was made locally (the Chechia), the Tarboosh was for obvious reasons known as "Chechia Stambouli". [1] This is no different for Morocco where the Tarboosh/Fez was usually imported from Europe. [2] M.Bitton ( talk) 22:49, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
It is clear. Erkek is a legitimate scholar.
The Algerian claim by Ekrem Buğra Ekinci is WP:EXTRAORDINARY, so I tagged it for now. Some the thing to consider while investigating this (I will repeat what I said above about the Chechia):
As clearly stated by the scholarly source of Erkek in the Sabah Daily, the Fez does not have a Greek origin and it has been described in the 17th century. Your OR and POV pushing cannot supercede a reputable scholar and credible source. Hsjalizs ( talk) 19:02, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
References
@ Sl99dl: Nobody is questioning the painting, however the caption is 100% baseless original research and like I said, there is a difference between the Chechia (which was worn by the North Africans for centuries) and the Tarboosh (which was a later introduction and in the case of Morocco, imported from abroad). M.Bitton ( talk) 20:51, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
Can someone tell me in which book Evliya Çelebi wrote that Algerian men wore red fezzes? 158.148.9.50 ( talk) 19:48, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
[2] A friendly notice to contributors. Please, don't convert the article into British English and don't add warning notices of such. The rule in Wikipedia that articles shouldn't be converted to other standards and in practice, only UK-related articles use the British standard. Thanks. -- Esperfulmo ( talk) 21:51, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
The fez was largely popularized in the United States by African Americans of the organization Moorish Science Temple of America. Members still wear the fez and this religious organization (not a fraternal org) should be mentioned in this article as well Sheik Way-El 20:39, 19 November 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheik Way-El ( talk • contribs)
@ Lute88: I'll repeat here what I said in the edit summary: how much coverage some content get in the article's body tend to decide how much weight (if any) it will get in the lead. Please read WP:LEAD and stop edit warring.
it is ref'ed, so - cover it.
That's your job (using reliable sources instead of a blog) seeing as you're the one who's insisting on giving
WP:UNDUE weight to something that appears to be loosely related to the primary topic (though, even that needs to be substantiated).
Please note that you are re-adding the same content that you added previously and which was subsequently reverted back in August (for a reason). M.Bitton ( talk) 02:57, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
@ Wizclifa: what makes you think that your addition improves the article?
I added information and use cases of the hat that were not well represented in the article
you added irrelevant images to the lead section of the article. Please read
WP:IUP and
MOS:LEAD.
M.Bitton (
talk)
11:03, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Fez (hat) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Text is inconsistent - one line claims Greek origin, the next line says Turkish. I've no Idea which, but it ain't both.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Igodard ( talk • contribs) 05:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Should this be moved to Fez (hat), or is there another article of clothing known as a "fez"? Dysprosia 14:08, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)
"About 980AD, the haj was interruped by the crusades, and the pilgrimages of those living west of the Nile were directed to Fez as to the Holy City."
The First Crusade didn't start until 1096, so I'm not sure how that works. Adam Bishop 14:48, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I agree. Not everything can be laid to the Franks. Better look into local conditions in Tripolitania and Cyrenaica ca 980 to see how the meghrib could become effectively cut off from Egypt and the Red Sea. An interestimg development. A reference would be good. User:Wetman.
Two miscellaneous fez facts, one rather unpleasant and one rather silly and commercial:
1. There is a nasty anti-Islamic myth (promulgated by, among others, Jack Chick) that the original fezzes were dyed with the blood of Christians. There is no truth to it.
2. You can get (cheap nylon) fezzes from Archie McPhee: http://www.mcphee.com/ or (expensive wool) fezzes from http://www.hatsinthebelfry.com/. -- FOo 00:03, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
How do you know it's a myth? Sources please. It should be mentioned in the article, myth or not.
Why is the fez often used in pop culture (e.g. Goofy and Ren Hoek wearing them) to denote relaxation? -- Abdull 21:04, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
How about adding a reference to Matt Groening's cartoon characters Akbar and Jeff? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_in_Hell — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.161.65 ( talk) 03:06, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
You Mean like in Doctor Who? Such as #SaveTheDay David Tennant http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/3e/f7/0a/3ef70ab8595c0ee384474c9750cdf845.jpg
1963 https://www.scifinow.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/p00v27md.jpg William Hartnell
2013 https://kitchenoverlord.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/doctor-who-fez.png Matt Smith
Alex Kingston http://images.amcnetworks.com/bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/files/2015/06/AlexKingston.jpg
-- Timelord2067 ( talk) 01:43, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
I prefer the German method of naming the Fez: de:Fes (Kopfbedeckung). That translates Fez (headgear). That's my suggestion for the move. GilliamJF 03:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The fez is also worn in Albania. There is no mention of this in the article. Albanians are not Slavs nor Bosniacs.
There is a picture of a man sporting a fez on this page. I noticed the same picture on the page for "Bedouin." The captions seem to differ on the nationality of the young man. Which needs to be fixed? I'd infer the man was probably Moroccan.
The article at one point starts using the word "checheya" without saying what it is. Could someone please add an explanation? -- LakeHMM 04:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi, jst looking at the third picture 'An old-fashioned Hyderabadi Muslim gentleman wearing an everyday sherwani and fez hat'. This guy is not wearing anything on his head. Following the picture it looks like there is some picture vandalism. The original picture is
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/8/81/20051212174328%21Sherwani.jpg
I am not too sure how to fix this, because I am not too familiar with the handling of pictures in wikipedia. Can somebody take care of this ? 137.132.3.11 12:11, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, done. You might want to watch Image:Sherwani.jpg deniz T C 13:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
The origin of fez is the city Fes, Morocco as the Turkish Official Dictionary, Online Etymology dictionary and Nişanyan's etmyologic dictionary said.
Ruzgar 01:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually, in ancient Mesopotamia, around 1000-600 B.C. (the Later Babylonian and Assyrian period), the men wore a high brimless hat similar to the fez or tarbush of today. In Assyrian art, this hat sometimes is shown with broad bands of fabric hanging down the back.
("Survey of Historic Costume: Fourth Edition" by Phyllis G. Tortora and Keith Eubank).
[RoseGirl]: 03:50, 20 April 2008
Until the 19th century it was the only source of Fez hats (also known as the tarboosh), before they began to be manufactured in France and Turkey; originally, the dye for the hats came from a berry that was grown outside the city, known as the Turkish kizziljiek or Greek akenia (Cornus mascula). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omansouri ( talk • contribs) 05:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how it's named after but as an Anatolian native it's so clear me that it roots back somewhere in Anatolia, 3500 year old Komagene sculptures in Adiyaman wear fez-like headgears. Wiki turns in to a pseudo encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.60.88.221 ( talk) 18:16, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Your references : no on can check them The form is not really the same and I have one question : Why turkish called this hat Fez ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.238.127.175 ( talk) 06:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Why does the second picture have a caption saying the man is from Morocco? The picture description implies he's from Israel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.96.46 ( talk) 23:58, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
This hat is from morocco —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.254.195 ( talk) 04:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
This article is specifically about the fez, not about all brimless, more or less cylindrical or conical hats. The fez has a specific historical context, in particular, as headgear promulgated by Mahmut II in the 1820/30s. That headgear had its origins in North Africa (according to Reliable Sources). It would be interesting to learn more (from Reliable Sources) about its history in North Africa. Just noting that it looks like some hat in an ancient Assyrian frieze, or (even more vaguely) like the hat Mussolini wore, is not helpful. There needs to be some documented connection. -- Macrakis ( talk) 03:35, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
I changed the article text to show that the fez was often manufactured in Strakonice, Czech Republic (then part of the Austrian Empire). I saw an exhibit on this in the STrakonice Museum and the Wikipedia article on Strakonice identifies it as "a main production site for fez hats". — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Poniatowski (
talk •
contribs)
16:06, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
the word طربوش is used in all Arabic dialects not only in egyptian !! so don't write "egyptian arbic" sorry for my bad English i hope you understand what i mean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.192.211.85 ( talk) 23:33, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
This page seems to become a picture gallery for men wearing a fez. There are 6 essentially identical pictures. Why? I'm taking down one of the most irrelevant. Nickrz ( talk) 20:55, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
I have seen a man, among a group of Arabic-speaking people, wearing a red fez which, together with its black tassel, was apparently made of knitted wool rather than felt. Perhaps this is worn in winter in Muslim countries. Personal observations are not reliable sources, but such may exist for on knitted fezzes. Barney Bruchstein ( talk) 11:31, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
As of 2017-04-12 the section on "History" includes, "Because the area is defensible it has been occupied since Roman times, although the modern Islamic city [of Fez] was created by invading Muslims from two opposing settlements around 818 ACE."
What's ACE in this context?
The article on Fez, Morocco says, "Arab emigration to Fez, including 800 Andalusi families of Berber descent in 817–818 expelled after a rebellion against the Umayyads of Córdoba, Andalusia, ... gave the city its Arabic character." From the context, it's clear that this was 818 CE or AD.
I found one other use of ACE associated with a date that clearly refers to CE and only one use of AD. I'll change both ACE and AD to CE for consistency. If someone knows better, I trust they will take appropriate action. DavidMCEddy ( talk) 14:12, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
"Besides ṭarbūsh, the fez can also be defined in Arabic shashia (i)stanbuli." 2600:1700:E1C0:F340:E5BC:ADD9:A126:1722 ( talk) 20:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 02:21, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
In August 1938, at the height of the insurgency, the rebel leadership commanded all townsmen to discard the tarbush and don the kufiya. The order was issued to help the rebels blend in when they entered the cities, but it was also a move in the wider social struggle… Official colonial sources, which noted that the fashion spread with "lightning rapidity," saw this more as the result of a conspiracy than as a manifestation of the spirit of unity (Palestine Post, 2 September 1938). Once the rebellion ended, the effendis of the town reassumed the tarnish, owing in part to British pressure (Morton 1957:98-100).
As British forces triumphed over rebel bands by late 1938, they won the sartorial war, helped by Christian merchants in Jerusalem who held a meeting to decide that they would open their shops on Fridays, an act forbidden by rebels, ‘and that they would no longer wear the Kaffiyah and Agal.’ The rebels put one Armenian Christian before a revolu- tionary court ‘for refusing to wear the Arab headdress. The rebels had ordered that non-Arab Christians do so, a demand that was understandably resisted by the Armenians and Greeks.’ By May 1939 the local press was reporting how the tarbush was returning to towns as the most popular form of headdress. Police CID noted the same, reporting how the: "tarbush and takieh [a close-fitting cap that can be worn under a tarbush and that was sometimes worn by the urban proletariat instead of a tarbush] are slowly reappearing in the place of the hatta and agel. In Jenin the townspeople were requested by the District Administration to revert to wearing the tarbush. Public response was encouraging following the example set by Government servants, and there were no untoward incidents. In Haifa notices were posted in the Suk threatening with death any person who wears a tarbush or incites the public to obey the orders of the Government."
@ Zero0000: Per this photo, the Tarbush was still being used in the region as late as 1947. Onceinawhile ( talk) 23:13, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Fez, Morocco which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 19:33, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
// The fez was a symbol not only of Ottoman affiliation but also of religious adherence to Islam.[16] It was also the main headdress for Christians and Jews during the Ottoman Empire.[17] //
Which is it? Islamic or no? 216.8.185.53 ( talk) 13:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
@ Hsjalizs: with regard to this revert:
You're breaking the very policy that you are citing. Where in that source does it say Nonetheless there is the strong likelihood that it was brought to the
Ottoman Empire from
North Africa, as the medieval Turkish historian
Evliya Celebi describes
Algerian men wearing it in the 17th century, thus supporting the Moroccan origin.
?
You're also cherry picking a quote from a source. Here's exactly what it says: "In the same category as the tarboosh, can be placed the fez and the chechia, varying but slightly in shape. Chéchia is the name for the Berber tashashit or skullcap which has a tassel. The Turkish fez, usually red and tufted with or black tassel, got its name from Fez, chief city of Morocco. It was supposed that the dull crimson hue produced by the juice of a berry which grew in the vicinity could not be procured elsewhere, but in recent times the red cap was successfully made in France and Turkey. When the Turks conquered Constantinopole in 1453, they adopted, with modification, the byzantine costume including the Greek cap."
If you take what it and other cited sources say, you'll find that there is no reason to change the way the sourced information is presented.
In North Africa, home of a similar looking hat that was made locally (the Chechia), the Tarboosh was for obvious reasons known as "Chechia Stambouli". [1] This is no different for Morocco where the Tarboosh/Fez was usually imported from Europe. [2] M.Bitton ( talk) 22:49, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
It is clear. Erkek is a legitimate scholar.
The Algerian claim by Ekrem Buğra Ekinci is WP:EXTRAORDINARY, so I tagged it for now. Some the thing to consider while investigating this (I will repeat what I said above about the Chechia):
As clearly stated by the scholarly source of Erkek in the Sabah Daily, the Fez does not have a Greek origin and it has been described in the 17th century. Your OR and POV pushing cannot supercede a reputable scholar and credible source. Hsjalizs ( talk) 19:02, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
References
@ Sl99dl: Nobody is questioning the painting, however the caption is 100% baseless original research and like I said, there is a difference between the Chechia (which was worn by the North Africans for centuries) and the Tarboosh (which was a later introduction and in the case of Morocco, imported from abroad). M.Bitton ( talk) 20:51, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
Can someone tell me in which book Evliya Çelebi wrote that Algerian men wore red fezzes? 158.148.9.50 ( talk) 19:48, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
[2] A friendly notice to contributors. Please, don't convert the article into British English and don't add warning notices of such. The rule in Wikipedia that articles shouldn't be converted to other standards and in practice, only UK-related articles use the British standard. Thanks. -- Esperfulmo ( talk) 21:51, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
The fez was largely popularized in the United States by African Americans of the organization Moorish Science Temple of America. Members still wear the fez and this religious organization (not a fraternal org) should be mentioned in this article as well Sheik Way-El 20:39, 19 November 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheik Way-El ( talk • contribs)
@ Lute88: I'll repeat here what I said in the edit summary: how much coverage some content get in the article's body tend to decide how much weight (if any) it will get in the lead. Please read WP:LEAD and stop edit warring.
it is ref'ed, so - cover it.
That's your job (using reliable sources instead of a blog) seeing as you're the one who's insisting on giving
WP:UNDUE weight to something that appears to be loosely related to the primary topic (though, even that needs to be substantiated).
Please note that you are re-adding the same content that you added previously and which was subsequently reverted back in August (for a reason). M.Bitton ( talk) 02:57, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
@ Wizclifa: what makes you think that your addition improves the article?
I added information and use cases of the hat that were not well represented in the article
you added irrelevant images to the lead section of the article. Please read
WP:IUP and
MOS:LEAD.
M.Bitton (
talk)
11:03, 15 March 2024 (UTC)