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I understand he is very much hated by Vietnamese-Americans or Vietnamese-Australians, but he is officially considered to be the father of independence in Vietnam. Therefore, I think he should be listed. This is not a political endorsement of his ideology. It merely reflects the official designation in Vietnam. It's similar to how Lee Kuan Yew is listed for Singapore even though Singaporean political dissidents hate him. The dog2 ( talk) 00:03, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
The nickname "Tatíček", generally used together with his surname, i. e. "Tatíček Masaryk", doesn't translate as "Father of the Fatherland" at all. The best translation would probably be "Daddy" or "Papa". It's an informal and very affectionate, while at the same time respectful (and nowadays, but not in Masaryk's day, old-fashioned) way to address one's father. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.142.238.245 ( talk) 11:29, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Isn’t usually Bismarck counted as the father of Germany? Why is he not on here but a group of people who wrote a constitution are? 72.138.171.158 ( talk) 13:51, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
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In the section on Albania change or add Ismail Qemal to the list. Ismail Qemal is often referred to as 'Baba i Kombit' in Albania which means father of the nation in Albanian.
Wikipedia contributors. (2023, June 3). Ismail Kemal. In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 17:26, June 4, 2023, from https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ismail_Kemal&oldid=1158284829 AdriaticAegean ( talk) 17:29, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
Abraham is considered the "founding father" of the Jewish People, not of the modern State of Israel. Although this State sees itself as a continuation of the ancient Jewish presence there, Abraham is not seen as its Father. (Tellingly, the Hebrew Wikipedia page on this topic does not include him.)
If we wanted to discuss the Fathers of Judaism, mention would have to be made of three - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They are all daily referred to as "our Fathers" (usually translated as "our Forefathers") by praying Jews. Yitz711 ( talk) 17:26, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
@ Capitals00 and Shaan Sengupta: Please could you explain your point of view on this here.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:18, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Personally I'm not convinced that the distinction between official and unofficial is that useful. As noted, it's an honorific title and that applies whether the title is enshrined in the law of a country or is just frequently used when referring to the person. Clearly if it's official that helps in demonstrating that the title is widely used but personally I wouldn't distinguish between Gandhi and Rahman on the basis that one has the title enshrined in law and the other doesn't. The main problem I have is that this sort of list is a "magnet" for all sorts of unreferenced and unsuitable entries. Unless that aspect can be sorted out, I'd be in favour of deleting the list completely. Nigej ( talk) 10:44, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
@ Capitals00 These are all reliable sources.
@ Toddy1: Two more editors, Nigej and Googleguy007 have agreed it is irrelevant to talk about whether the honorific title is official or unofficial. Can you self-revert now? Capitals00 ( talk) 12:45, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Was granted the title in 1721 by the Governing Senate, along with "Emperor of Russia" and "The Great".This has a citation.-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:09, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
If this is covered by Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists we should really have some selection criteria ("Please document the list selection criteria on the talk page of the list."). I can't help feeling that the ideas at MOS:BADNICK apply here (although perhaps this isn't strictly a "nickname"). To be included, the title should "be frequently used by reliable sources in reference to the subject." Just because someone can find a "one-off reference" to the person being called "father of the nation" doesn't make it suitable for inclusion here. Nigej ( talk) 09:20, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
As per Article 18 (1) of Constitution of India, no one can get any title officially except education and military. See [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12]. 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙♂️ Let's Talk ! 11:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
In an official reply to RIGHT TO INFORMATION plea, government of India clearly states to have no official Father of Nation. Citation : 1.)
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/mahatma-gandhi-was-never-declared-father-of-nation-reveals-rti-reply/amp_articleshow/73446044.cms
2.)
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/10-year-olds-rti-on-father-of-the-nation-title-for-gandhi-474827/amp/1
3.)
https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/mahatma-gandhi-not-formally-conferred-father-of-the-nation-title-government/articleshow/14823012.cms
4.)
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/north/story/rti-on-mahatma-gandhi-father-of-the-nation-status-97977-2012-04-02
5.)
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/latest-news/gandhi-not-formally-conferred-father-of-the-nation-title-govt/lite/
I thereby request the community to rectify the corrections in this and all other articles and refrain from spreading misleading information! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unvindia ( talk • contribs) 00:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
You should include Sutan Sjahrir, Mohammad Hatta & Tan Malaka as Father of Indonesian Nation 36.69.5.63 ( talk) 03:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
@ Ashik Ser: can you please explain why you keep deleting the sourced content (regarding Mahatma Gandhi)? M.Bitton ( talk) 12:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Father of the Nation article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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I understand he is very much hated by Vietnamese-Americans or Vietnamese-Australians, but he is officially considered to be the father of independence in Vietnam. Therefore, I think he should be listed. This is not a political endorsement of his ideology. It merely reflects the official designation in Vietnam. It's similar to how Lee Kuan Yew is listed for Singapore even though Singaporean political dissidents hate him. The dog2 ( talk) 00:03, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
The nickname "Tatíček", generally used together with his surname, i. e. "Tatíček Masaryk", doesn't translate as "Father of the Fatherland" at all. The best translation would probably be "Daddy" or "Papa". It's an informal and very affectionate, while at the same time respectful (and nowadays, but not in Masaryk's day, old-fashioned) way to address one's father. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.142.238.245 ( talk) 11:29, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Isn’t usually Bismarck counted as the father of Germany? Why is he not on here but a group of people who wrote a constitution are? 72.138.171.158 ( talk) 13:51, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the section on Albania change or add Ismail Qemal to the list. Ismail Qemal is often referred to as 'Baba i Kombit' in Albania which means father of the nation in Albanian.
Wikipedia contributors. (2023, June 3). Ismail Kemal. In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 17:26, June 4, 2023, from https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ismail_Kemal&oldid=1158284829 AdriaticAegean ( talk) 17:29, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
Abraham is considered the "founding father" of the Jewish People, not of the modern State of Israel. Although this State sees itself as a continuation of the ancient Jewish presence there, Abraham is not seen as its Father. (Tellingly, the Hebrew Wikipedia page on this topic does not include him.)
If we wanted to discuss the Fathers of Judaism, mention would have to be made of three - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They are all daily referred to as "our Fathers" (usually translated as "our Forefathers") by praying Jews. Yitz711 ( talk) 17:26, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
@ Capitals00 and Shaan Sengupta: Please could you explain your point of view on this here.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:18, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Personally I'm not convinced that the distinction between official and unofficial is that useful. As noted, it's an honorific title and that applies whether the title is enshrined in the law of a country or is just frequently used when referring to the person. Clearly if it's official that helps in demonstrating that the title is widely used but personally I wouldn't distinguish between Gandhi and Rahman on the basis that one has the title enshrined in law and the other doesn't. The main problem I have is that this sort of list is a "magnet" for all sorts of unreferenced and unsuitable entries. Unless that aspect can be sorted out, I'd be in favour of deleting the list completely. Nigej ( talk) 10:44, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
@ Capitals00 These are all reliable sources.
@ Toddy1: Two more editors, Nigej and Googleguy007 have agreed it is irrelevant to talk about whether the honorific title is official or unofficial. Can you self-revert now? Capitals00 ( talk) 12:45, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Was granted the title in 1721 by the Governing Senate, along with "Emperor of Russia" and "The Great".This has a citation.-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:09, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
If this is covered by Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists we should really have some selection criteria ("Please document the list selection criteria on the talk page of the list."). I can't help feeling that the ideas at MOS:BADNICK apply here (although perhaps this isn't strictly a "nickname"). To be included, the title should "be frequently used by reliable sources in reference to the subject." Just because someone can find a "one-off reference" to the person being called "father of the nation" doesn't make it suitable for inclusion here. Nigej ( talk) 09:20, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
As per Article 18 (1) of Constitution of India, no one can get any title officially except education and military. See [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12]. 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙♂️ Let's Talk ! 11:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
In an official reply to RIGHT TO INFORMATION plea, government of India clearly states to have no official Father of Nation. Citation : 1.)
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/mahatma-gandhi-was-never-declared-father-of-nation-reveals-rti-reply/amp_articleshow/73446044.cms
2.)
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/10-year-olds-rti-on-father-of-the-nation-title-for-gandhi-474827/amp/1
3.)
https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/mahatma-gandhi-not-formally-conferred-father-of-the-nation-title-government/articleshow/14823012.cms
4.)
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/north/story/rti-on-mahatma-gandhi-father-of-the-nation-status-97977-2012-04-02
5.)
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/latest-news/gandhi-not-formally-conferred-father-of-the-nation-title-govt/lite/
I thereby request the community to rectify the corrections in this and all other articles and refrain from spreading misleading information! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unvindia ( talk • contribs) 00:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
You should include Sutan Sjahrir, Mohammad Hatta & Tan Malaka as Father of Indonesian Nation 36.69.5.63 ( talk) 03:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
@ Ashik Ser: can you please explain why you keep deleting the sourced content (regarding Mahatma Gandhi)? M.Bitton ( talk) 12:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)