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![]() | On 21 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Fascist Italy (1922–1943) to Fascist Italy. The result of the discussion was moved. |
The result of the move request was: Moved per WP:COMMONNAME. ( non-admin closure). Xain36 { talk} 13:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Kingdom of Italy under Fascism (1922–1943) →
Fascist Italy (1922–1943) – "Fascist Italy" is the common name for this regime and is even used to refer to it in the introduction of this article.
2601:CE:C180:6B45:DD1F:F08E:924F:F191 (
talk) 23:17, 6 February 2019 (UTC)--Relisted. –
Ammarpad (
talk) 07:16, 14 February 2019 (UTC)--Relisting.
B dash (
talk)
09:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move b uidh e 05:00, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Fascist Italy (1922–1943) →
Kingdom of Italy under Fascism – This article is a sub-article of
Kingdom of Italy. It is a period in the history of the kingdom. The terms
Nazi Germany and
Weimar Republic are mutually exclusive in English, but Fascist Italy and Kingdom of Italy are overlapping (like a Venn diagram). The proposed title better reflects that.
Srnec (
talk) 23:47, 3 March 2020 (UTC) —Relisted. –
Ammarpad (
talk) 05:42, 11 March 2020 (UTC) —Relisting.
Sangdeboeuf (
talk)
23:58, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello, thanks for the extensive article. I wonder about the role of pre-Fascist elites and their role in Fascist Italy. E.g., except the Church, conservative circles, nobility, monarchists. In my understanding, these elites still had a significant role after 1922/1925, while in NS Germany they have been sidelined in a very early phase. I would love someone to expand the article about this topic. Ziko ( talk) 11:46, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Elli ( talk | contribs) 11:20, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
Fascist Italy (1922–1943) →
Kingdom of Italy under Fascism – "Fascist Italy" is not a distinct period in the constitutional history of Italy. That is why
Fascist Italy is a disambiguation page. This article is about a distinct period in the political history of the
Kingdom of Italy and is a sub-article of that page. The proposed title is better per
WP:NATURALDIS, since it requires no parenthetical dates.
Srnec (
talk) 00:21, 6 May 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~
Aseleste (
t,
e |
c,
l)
04:40, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
While they never quite achieved this level of domination, they certainly tried very hard to reach it, and the result was significantly different from the society which existed before it.As for the disambiguating dates, they don't need to be there at all, since there was only ever one "Fascist Italy". Beyond My Ken ( talk) 07:30, 6 May 2021 (UTC)The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people.
the result was significantly different from the society which existed before it– that's why there's a specific article for it, and now we're just deciding what its name should be. Pasting the definition of Fascism here was a pointless gesture. Avilich ( talk) 23:33, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
how its a ambiguous titleIt has a parenthetical qualifier, indicating its ambiguity. Did you even look properly? Avilich ( talk) 21:09, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
are different political entities entirely? The proposed title is less confusing because it does not leave the reader to assume that this is something that comes after the Kingdom of Italy. Srnec ( talk) 00:30, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Mussolini's Italy is different compared to the regular monarchy ... both entities fought against each other during the Italian Civil War, which is clearly a confusion of this Fascist Italy with the other one. The subject of this article had nothing to do with the Italian civil war. Srnec ( talk) 00:53, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
Fascist Italy, 1922–1943" is simply ubiquitous in academia.
"It makes inherent sense that the article names should reflect this"I don't think so. There is no reason whatsoever to force a monarchy/republic distinction over other considerations such as usage. PD: I personally feel there is an undue general urge in Wikipedia to fit articles as "polities" (so there is always a sucession of polities, which are often understood as the sole container of historical content for the history of a given country). While there can be a degree of that, there are less rigid frames and the fixation (particularly vis-à-vis the infoboxes) to shoehorn the notion of "former country" is problematic and prone to become a trap of unvoluntary orientalism.--Asqueladd ( talk) 02:07, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Soft Underbelly of Europe. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 19#Soft Underbelly of Europe until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,
Rosguill
talk
18:02, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
There is no problem in reverting the first sentence of the introduction, but at the moment it is meaningless, because a state cannot be an "age". At the very least we should change the verb. Alex2006 ( talk) 17:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
@ Beyond My Ken: Why does this article with a completely unambiguous title and no ambiguous redirects need a hatnote? Srnec ( talk) 20:17, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
My new correction on infobox is a simple information regarding Italian king who was political sponsor of DUCE Mussolini: king and duce together controlled political power. Sure king was not under fascist party's power because in 25 July 1945 Italian king and other fascist chiefs ordered capture of Mussolini who was imprisoned. Forza bruta ( talk) 18:19, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) -- Maddy from Celeste ( WAVEDASH) 15:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
– The name "Fascist Italy" is only used in two pages, this and the disambiguation page. Except the disambiguation page only has two (three if you count Italian Fascism at the bottom) links, and the second one doesn't even have "Fascist Italy" in the name. Since "Fascist Italy" is a much simpler title, I request that, potentially under WP:COMMONNAME, this page be moved to "Fascist Italy", and the disambiguation page be moved to "Fascist Italy (disambiguation)" or even deleted altogether, as it seems pretty redundant since the links "Italian Social Republic" and "Italian Fascism" can simply be placed at the top of the page like: "This article is about the Italian state from 1922 to 1943. For the puppet state of Nazi Germany, see Italian Social Republic. For Italian fascism in general, see Italian Fascism." This move is different from the two moves before requesting to move this page back to "Kingdom of Italy under Fascism", so the reasons for opposing those requests should probably not be used here, since this move is to a different name. Al ten do 13:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. wbm1058 ( talk) 21:50, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) NmWTfs85lXusaybq ( talk) 01:53, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Fascist Italy (1922–1943) → Fascist Italy – Primary topic. "Fascist Italy" predominantly refers to the 1922–1943 period in historical discourse. ‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 20:17, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Fascist Italy article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
|
![]() | On 21 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Fascist Italy (1922–1943) to Fascist Italy. The result of the discussion was moved. |
The result of the move request was: Moved per WP:COMMONNAME. ( non-admin closure). Xain36 { talk} 13:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Kingdom of Italy under Fascism (1922–1943) →
Fascist Italy (1922–1943) – "Fascist Italy" is the common name for this regime and is even used to refer to it in the introduction of this article.
2601:CE:C180:6B45:DD1F:F08E:924F:F191 (
talk) 23:17, 6 February 2019 (UTC)--Relisted. –
Ammarpad (
talk) 07:16, 14 February 2019 (UTC)--Relisting.
B dash (
talk)
09:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move b uidh e 05:00, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Fascist Italy (1922–1943) →
Kingdom of Italy under Fascism – This article is a sub-article of
Kingdom of Italy. It is a period in the history of the kingdom. The terms
Nazi Germany and
Weimar Republic are mutually exclusive in English, but Fascist Italy and Kingdom of Italy are overlapping (like a Venn diagram). The proposed title better reflects that.
Srnec (
talk) 23:47, 3 March 2020 (UTC) —Relisted. –
Ammarpad (
talk) 05:42, 11 March 2020 (UTC) —Relisting.
Sangdeboeuf (
talk)
23:58, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello, thanks for the extensive article. I wonder about the role of pre-Fascist elites and their role in Fascist Italy. E.g., except the Church, conservative circles, nobility, monarchists. In my understanding, these elites still had a significant role after 1922/1925, while in NS Germany they have been sidelined in a very early phase. I would love someone to expand the article about this topic. Ziko ( talk) 11:46, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Elli ( talk | contribs) 11:20, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
Fascist Italy (1922–1943) →
Kingdom of Italy under Fascism – "Fascist Italy" is not a distinct period in the constitutional history of Italy. That is why
Fascist Italy is a disambiguation page. This article is about a distinct period in the political history of the
Kingdom of Italy and is a sub-article of that page. The proposed title is better per
WP:NATURALDIS, since it requires no parenthetical dates.
Srnec (
talk) 00:21, 6 May 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~
Aseleste (
t,
e |
c,
l)
04:40, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
While they never quite achieved this level of domination, they certainly tried very hard to reach it, and the result was significantly different from the society which existed before it.As for the disambiguating dates, they don't need to be there at all, since there was only ever one "Fascist Italy". Beyond My Ken ( talk) 07:30, 6 May 2021 (UTC)The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people.
the result was significantly different from the society which existed before it– that's why there's a specific article for it, and now we're just deciding what its name should be. Pasting the definition of Fascism here was a pointless gesture. Avilich ( talk) 23:33, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
how its a ambiguous titleIt has a parenthetical qualifier, indicating its ambiguity. Did you even look properly? Avilich ( talk) 21:09, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
are different political entities entirely? The proposed title is less confusing because it does not leave the reader to assume that this is something that comes after the Kingdom of Italy. Srnec ( talk) 00:30, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Mussolini's Italy is different compared to the regular monarchy ... both entities fought against each other during the Italian Civil War, which is clearly a confusion of this Fascist Italy with the other one. The subject of this article had nothing to do with the Italian civil war. Srnec ( talk) 00:53, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
Fascist Italy, 1922–1943" is simply ubiquitous in academia.
"It makes inherent sense that the article names should reflect this"I don't think so. There is no reason whatsoever to force a monarchy/republic distinction over other considerations such as usage. PD: I personally feel there is an undue general urge in Wikipedia to fit articles as "polities" (so there is always a sucession of polities, which are often understood as the sole container of historical content for the history of a given country). While there can be a degree of that, there are less rigid frames and the fixation (particularly vis-à-vis the infoboxes) to shoehorn the notion of "former country" is problematic and prone to become a trap of unvoluntary orientalism.--Asqueladd ( talk) 02:07, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Soft Underbelly of Europe. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 19#Soft Underbelly of Europe until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,
Rosguill
talk
18:02, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
There is no problem in reverting the first sentence of the introduction, but at the moment it is meaningless, because a state cannot be an "age". At the very least we should change the verb. Alex2006 ( talk) 17:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
@ Beyond My Ken: Why does this article with a completely unambiguous title and no ambiguous redirects need a hatnote? Srnec ( talk) 20:17, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
My new correction on infobox is a simple information regarding Italian king who was political sponsor of DUCE Mussolini: king and duce together controlled political power. Sure king was not under fascist party's power because in 25 July 1945 Italian king and other fascist chiefs ordered capture of Mussolini who was imprisoned. Forza bruta ( talk) 18:19, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) -- Maddy from Celeste ( WAVEDASH) 15:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
– The name "Fascist Italy" is only used in two pages, this and the disambiguation page. Except the disambiguation page only has two (three if you count Italian Fascism at the bottom) links, and the second one doesn't even have "Fascist Italy" in the name. Since "Fascist Italy" is a much simpler title, I request that, potentially under WP:COMMONNAME, this page be moved to "Fascist Italy", and the disambiguation page be moved to "Fascist Italy (disambiguation)" or even deleted altogether, as it seems pretty redundant since the links "Italian Social Republic" and "Italian Fascism" can simply be placed at the top of the page like: "This article is about the Italian state from 1922 to 1943. For the puppet state of Nazi Germany, see Italian Social Republic. For Italian fascism in general, see Italian Fascism." This move is different from the two moves before requesting to move this page back to "Kingdom of Italy under Fascism", so the reasons for opposing those requests should probably not be used here, since this move is to a different name. Al ten do 13:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. wbm1058 ( talk) 21:50, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) NmWTfs85lXusaybq ( talk) 01:53, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Fascist Italy (1922–1943) → Fascist Italy – Primary topic. "Fascist Italy" predominantly refers to the 1922–1943 period in historical discourse. ‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 20:17, 21 February 2024 (UTC)