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The only problem with this information it’s all real and yes they poisoned air daily with those aircraft — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:2101:1218:4DD0:79CF:E8A:AC75 ( talk) 15:00, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
For one thing other stuff burning fossil fuel does not usually produce contrails. How about something like -
Aviation is one of the causes of climate change and sometimes local air pollution. Chidgk1 ( talk) 15:28, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
Like other emissions resulting from fossil fuel combustion, aircraft engines produce gases, noise, and particulates, raising environmental concerns over their global effects and their effects on local air quality.There is no "contrails" in it. It has the advantage of being more complete, and has an ICAO ref.-- Marc Lacoste ( talk)
I did not notice any quantitative comparison (for example number of people made ill) of the different effects in the body of the article but would you agree that climate change is the worst? If so I suggest the words "climate change" are included in the first sentence. For example Aviation is one of the causes of climate change and is sometimes noisy and dirty.
Chidgk1 (
talk) 17:21, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Aircraft engines produce gases, noise, and particulates from fossil fuel combustion, raising environmental concerns over their climate change contributions and their effects on local air quality.. - Ahunt ( talk) 17:48, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Aircraft engine exhaust is one of the causes of climate change, and sometimes noise and local air pollution.Also the current first sentence is a bit misleading in that engines fuelled only by biojet, although better, could still have some impact for example they might not be carbon neautral due to non-CO2 impact. Chidgk1 ( talk) 08:40, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
As you can see from https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Environmental_effects_of_aviation&diff=1137083068&oldid=1137076208 @ Marc Lacoste and I disagree. What do you think and why? Chidgk1 ( talk) 11:14, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
In this revert by Ahunt various content was removed, please allow me to undo that for the following reasons:
Prototyperspective ( talk) 21:54, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Taking local vacations or travelling close to home can avoid taking planes.was what could be charitably called "brilliant grasp of the obvious", just not encyclopedic content. The same concepts are covered earlier in the article but in more depth. With one editor tagging it for importance and another assessing and removing it, that is an editing consensus. This discussion just comes to the same conclusion. - Ahunt ( talk) 12:24, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
Supporting local vacations or travels close to home rather than at distant destinations can reduce flight demand.and that is very important to at least mention briefly in a section called
Reducing air travel. I can look if more WP:RS state this but afaik the ones given are more than sufficient. Prototyperspective ( talk) 13:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
I propose a compromise in that whilst there is a section on "Reducing air travel" I feel it should be moved higher up. And it could certainly do with some improvements by Prototyperspective and others. For example it could say more on discouraging frequent flying and the info on virtual working could perhaps be updated - presumably there are now academic studies of pandemic years guiding how much people should meet face to face for work and how much can be done remotely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chidgk1 ( talk • contribs)
discourage flying. Mitigation solutions with reliable sources are welcome, like updating the remote work part, indeed.-- Marc Lacoste ( talk) 18:09, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
Mitigation solutions with reliable sources.
academic studies of pandemic yearswas/were part of the sources used. The removed content was well-referenced and there are probably way more good-quality refs for that, the removal was unwarranted and is not WP:NPOV.
Supporting .. travels close to home(e.g. in neighboring countries) in specific. Prototyperspective ( talk) 18:28, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
About UK but there may be globally relevent info which could be copied and pasted if I understand creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0 right Chidgk1 ( talk) 19:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Environmental effects of aviation article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
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The only problem with this information it’s all real and yes they poisoned air daily with those aircraft — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:2101:1218:4DD0:79CF:E8A:AC75 ( talk) 15:00, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
For one thing other stuff burning fossil fuel does not usually produce contrails. How about something like -
Aviation is one of the causes of climate change and sometimes local air pollution. Chidgk1 ( talk) 15:28, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
Like other emissions resulting from fossil fuel combustion, aircraft engines produce gases, noise, and particulates, raising environmental concerns over their global effects and their effects on local air quality.There is no "contrails" in it. It has the advantage of being more complete, and has an ICAO ref.-- Marc Lacoste ( talk)
I did not notice any quantitative comparison (for example number of people made ill) of the different effects in the body of the article but would you agree that climate change is the worst? If so I suggest the words "climate change" are included in the first sentence. For example Aviation is one of the causes of climate change and is sometimes noisy and dirty.
Chidgk1 (
talk) 17:21, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Aircraft engines produce gases, noise, and particulates from fossil fuel combustion, raising environmental concerns over their climate change contributions and their effects on local air quality.. - Ahunt ( talk) 17:48, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Aircraft engine exhaust is one of the causes of climate change, and sometimes noise and local air pollution.Also the current first sentence is a bit misleading in that engines fuelled only by biojet, although better, could still have some impact for example they might not be carbon neautral due to non-CO2 impact. Chidgk1 ( talk) 08:40, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
As you can see from https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Environmental_effects_of_aviation&diff=1137083068&oldid=1137076208 @ Marc Lacoste and I disagree. What do you think and why? Chidgk1 ( talk) 11:14, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
In this revert by Ahunt various content was removed, please allow me to undo that for the following reasons:
Prototyperspective ( talk) 21:54, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Taking local vacations or travelling close to home can avoid taking planes.was what could be charitably called "brilliant grasp of the obvious", just not encyclopedic content. The same concepts are covered earlier in the article but in more depth. With one editor tagging it for importance and another assessing and removing it, that is an editing consensus. This discussion just comes to the same conclusion. - Ahunt ( talk) 12:24, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
Supporting local vacations or travels close to home rather than at distant destinations can reduce flight demand.and that is very important to at least mention briefly in a section called
Reducing air travel. I can look if more WP:RS state this but afaik the ones given are more than sufficient. Prototyperspective ( talk) 13:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
I propose a compromise in that whilst there is a section on "Reducing air travel" I feel it should be moved higher up. And it could certainly do with some improvements by Prototyperspective and others. For example it could say more on discouraging frequent flying and the info on virtual working could perhaps be updated - presumably there are now academic studies of pandemic years guiding how much people should meet face to face for work and how much can be done remotely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chidgk1 ( talk • contribs)
discourage flying. Mitigation solutions with reliable sources are welcome, like updating the remote work part, indeed.-- Marc Lacoste ( talk) 18:09, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
Mitigation solutions with reliable sources.
academic studies of pandemic yearswas/were part of the sources used. The removed content was well-referenced and there are probably way more good-quality refs for that, the removal was unwarranted and is not WP:NPOV.
Supporting .. travels close to home(e.g. in neighboring countries) in specific. Prototyperspective ( talk) 18:28, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
About UK but there may be globally relevent info which could be copied and pasted if I understand creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0 right Chidgk1 ( talk) 19:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)