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Maybe don't use Elliots dead name in this as the point of changing there name is to not have people see it and say it 86.28.94.181 ( talk) 14:00, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Millions of people knew Elliot Page as Ellen Page, having won several awards and leading films under the old name. To totally censor this name from the article (instead of the minimal usage at present), is a hinderance to these millions of people. This is the same for Olympic gold medal-winning Bruce Jenner, who is now Caitlyn Jenner. starship .paint ( exalt) 13:28, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
The lead sentence "Elliot page is a Canadian actor" is really short; it should really be merged with the next sentence. Calumapplepie ( talk) 17:10, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Found it a bit confusing to read about a "him" in hindsight about a time period where that person identified as female. so my suggestion would be to change text passages where Page still identified as female to write about her. and after the change about him. because this way it looks like an alteration of "history" Krrbz567 ( talk) 10:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Elliot Page has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Born female. Not assigned at birth. Think we will continue to fund wikipedia to keep it alive spewing this false nonsense. Learn science. 76.3.71.80 ( talk) 11:35, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
I don't have the sufficient edits to do this myself, in the first blurb it says "He became in March 2021 the first openly trans man to appear on the cover of Time.", the syntax of this is a little awkward, and I think it should be changed to "In March 2021, he became...". 1brianm7 ( talk) 00:45, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
As a multi-pronoun user (she/they, for the record), I am extremely uncomfortable with the annotation at the beginning of the page (citation [a]: "This article uses he/him for consistency").
Elliot Page uses he/they pronouns, and I haven't found anything with a cursory search indicating he's specified how he wants his pronouns to be used. Typically, within the LGBTQIA+ community, when a person lists multiple pronouns and doesn't say anything else about when to use which pronouns, it's considered best practice to alternate pronouns and attempt to use both with equal frequency.
Personally, I like to alternate according to sentence or clause (for instance, I last referred to Page as "he," so the next time I use a pronoun to refer to them, I'll use "they" instead. See? Easy). It mitigates the lion's share of confusion, and when readers know that the person being written about uses both sets of pronouns - which this article should establish in the introductory paragraph - then it's inappropriate to presume additional confusion will follow from the article using Page's pronouns correctly.
Failing to acknowledge that he identifies on the nonbinary spectrum is offensive and transphobic. The page states that Page is "a trans man," but in his coming-out letter, Page didn't specify anything of the sort. They stated that they were trans, and that he uses he/they pronouns.
The correct term for someone like Page, if he hasn't specified otherwise, is "transmasculine" (or "transmasc" for short). The correct use of Page's pronouns, unless they've specified otherwise, is to use both. If you can't write coherently while using nonbinary pronouns, that's your problem, not ours. If Page's identity confuses you, that's a you problem. The fact that this article writes Page into a binary because their gender is grammatically inconvenient is fundamentally hostile to his - and my - queer identity.
Please do better. FinnKimbrel ( talk) 03:18, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
DO use he/him or they/them pronouns when referring to Elliot Page. He/him is preferred by Page, but they/them is also acceptable.(emphasis mine) I don't necessarily agree with your premise that "he/they" means "alternate usage each time between the two" by default--though I acknowledge that that's your preference, and certainly one valid reading of it--but that's why we do what we do. Writ Keeper ⚇ ♔ 04:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
The quite detectable fanaticist undertone behind "If you can't write coherently while using nonbinary pronouns, that's your problem, not ours. If Page's identity confuses you, that's a you problem. The fact that this article writes Page into a binary because their gender is grammatically inconvenient is fundamentally hostile to his - and my - queer identity" is both rude and dis-respectful. No one, let alone WP should have to accede to such behavior. The activist class does not represent ordinary LGBTIQ people. They did not mint that coin and it is not theirs to spend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.150.38.126 ( talk) 20:06, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
greetings,
similar to the way the value for the born variable in the infobox for actor Aaron Paul begins with the legal birth name prior to legally changing it:
Aaron Paul Sturtevant
August 27, 1979 (age 43)
Emmett, Idaho, U.S.
and the way the same value in the article for
Chaz Bono reads:
Chastity Sun Bono
March 4, 1969 (age 54)
Los Angeles, California, U.S.
and the way the same value in the article for
Caitlyn Jenner reads:
William Bruce Jenner
October 28, 1949 (age 73)
Mount Kisco, New York, U.S.
i feel as though we should be holding
Elliot Page to the same standard as other people and add the legal birth name prior to legally changing it:
Emma Page
February 21, 1987 (age 36)
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
or:
Emma Philpotts-Page
February 21, 1987 (age 36)
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
instead of just:
February 21, 1987 (age 36)
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
even if its only in the name of standards for the sake of consistency..
does anybody have a problem with this accompanied by a good reason why this specific article or person needs to receive special treatment that isnt also being applied to other individuals or articles in the same or a similar category??
if you reply, please ping me so i see it when i log in and know to check back here.
thank you.
Snarevox ( talk) 07:50, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
saying "assigned female at birth" is medically inaccurate. Doctors do not assign sex at birth, they just observe what sex the baby is. 2601:803:4300:16D0:2C67:55D:2BD1:7C7D ( talk) 21:44, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
Contrary to what has been claimed above, the MOS doesn't demand or even mention the expression "assigned ... at birth". Hence, such a discussion was/would be valid here. Str1977 (talk) 21:11, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
I think care should be taken in the way Page's recent revelations about former relationships that were detailed in Pageboy because the book is after all a WP:BLPPRIMARY. Lots of well-known persons release memoirs or auto-biographies and lots of claims are made in such works, but Wikipedia should probably treat them as only claims unless they can be corroborated by some pretty strong independent secondary sources. It's probably OK to phrase things as "Page claims in Pageboy ..." or "Page states in Pageboy ..." in the article with respect to the stuff in that book, but the sentence about his relationship with Kate Mara makes it seem as if it's a statement of fact even though it's not clear whether Mara has officially commented or confirmed said relationship as of yet. Similar content was also added to Kate Mara#Personal life and it's also treated as if it's a statement of fact as opposed to an unverified claim. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:24, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
There are currently three photos of Elliot before his transition, yet only two after. Can we balance this out a bit better? —Entropy ( talk) 22:06, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
Maybe don't use Elliots dead name in this as the point of changing there name is to not have people see it and say it 86.28.94.181 ( talk) 14:00, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Millions of people knew Elliot Page as Ellen Page, having won several awards and leading films under the old name. To totally censor this name from the article (instead of the minimal usage at present), is a hinderance to these millions of people. This is the same for Olympic gold medal-winning Bruce Jenner, who is now Caitlyn Jenner. starship .paint ( exalt) 13:28, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
The lead sentence "Elliot page is a Canadian actor" is really short; it should really be merged with the next sentence. Calumapplepie ( talk) 17:10, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Found it a bit confusing to read about a "him" in hindsight about a time period where that person identified as female. so my suggestion would be to change text passages where Page still identified as female to write about her. and after the change about him. because this way it looks like an alteration of "history" Krrbz567 ( talk) 10:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Elliot Page has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Born female. Not assigned at birth. Think we will continue to fund wikipedia to keep it alive spewing this false nonsense. Learn science. 76.3.71.80 ( talk) 11:35, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
I don't have the sufficient edits to do this myself, in the first blurb it says "He became in March 2021 the first openly trans man to appear on the cover of Time.", the syntax of this is a little awkward, and I think it should be changed to "In March 2021, he became...". 1brianm7 ( talk) 00:45, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
As a multi-pronoun user (she/they, for the record), I am extremely uncomfortable with the annotation at the beginning of the page (citation [a]: "This article uses he/him for consistency").
Elliot Page uses he/they pronouns, and I haven't found anything with a cursory search indicating he's specified how he wants his pronouns to be used. Typically, within the LGBTQIA+ community, when a person lists multiple pronouns and doesn't say anything else about when to use which pronouns, it's considered best practice to alternate pronouns and attempt to use both with equal frequency.
Personally, I like to alternate according to sentence or clause (for instance, I last referred to Page as "he," so the next time I use a pronoun to refer to them, I'll use "they" instead. See? Easy). It mitigates the lion's share of confusion, and when readers know that the person being written about uses both sets of pronouns - which this article should establish in the introductory paragraph - then it's inappropriate to presume additional confusion will follow from the article using Page's pronouns correctly.
Failing to acknowledge that he identifies on the nonbinary spectrum is offensive and transphobic. The page states that Page is "a trans man," but in his coming-out letter, Page didn't specify anything of the sort. They stated that they were trans, and that he uses he/they pronouns.
The correct term for someone like Page, if he hasn't specified otherwise, is "transmasculine" (or "transmasc" for short). The correct use of Page's pronouns, unless they've specified otherwise, is to use both. If you can't write coherently while using nonbinary pronouns, that's your problem, not ours. If Page's identity confuses you, that's a you problem. The fact that this article writes Page into a binary because their gender is grammatically inconvenient is fundamentally hostile to his - and my - queer identity.
Please do better. FinnKimbrel ( talk) 03:18, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
DO use he/him or they/them pronouns when referring to Elliot Page. He/him is preferred by Page, but they/them is also acceptable.(emphasis mine) I don't necessarily agree with your premise that "he/they" means "alternate usage each time between the two" by default--though I acknowledge that that's your preference, and certainly one valid reading of it--but that's why we do what we do. Writ Keeper ⚇ ♔ 04:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
The quite detectable fanaticist undertone behind "If you can't write coherently while using nonbinary pronouns, that's your problem, not ours. If Page's identity confuses you, that's a you problem. The fact that this article writes Page into a binary because their gender is grammatically inconvenient is fundamentally hostile to his - and my - queer identity" is both rude and dis-respectful. No one, let alone WP should have to accede to such behavior. The activist class does not represent ordinary LGBTIQ people. They did not mint that coin and it is not theirs to spend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.150.38.126 ( talk) 20:06, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
greetings,
similar to the way the value for the born variable in the infobox for actor Aaron Paul begins with the legal birth name prior to legally changing it:
Aaron Paul Sturtevant
August 27, 1979 (age 43)
Emmett, Idaho, U.S.
and the way the same value in the article for
Chaz Bono reads:
Chastity Sun Bono
March 4, 1969 (age 54)
Los Angeles, California, U.S.
and the way the same value in the article for
Caitlyn Jenner reads:
William Bruce Jenner
October 28, 1949 (age 73)
Mount Kisco, New York, U.S.
i feel as though we should be holding
Elliot Page to the same standard as other people and add the legal birth name prior to legally changing it:
Emma Page
February 21, 1987 (age 36)
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
or:
Emma Philpotts-Page
February 21, 1987 (age 36)
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
instead of just:
February 21, 1987 (age 36)
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
even if its only in the name of standards for the sake of consistency..
does anybody have a problem with this accompanied by a good reason why this specific article or person needs to receive special treatment that isnt also being applied to other individuals or articles in the same or a similar category??
if you reply, please ping me so i see it when i log in and know to check back here.
thank you.
Snarevox ( talk) 07:50, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
saying "assigned female at birth" is medically inaccurate. Doctors do not assign sex at birth, they just observe what sex the baby is. 2601:803:4300:16D0:2C67:55D:2BD1:7C7D ( talk) 21:44, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
Contrary to what has been claimed above, the MOS doesn't demand or even mention the expression "assigned ... at birth". Hence, such a discussion was/would be valid here. Str1977 (talk) 21:11, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
I think care should be taken in the way Page's recent revelations about former relationships that were detailed in Pageboy because the book is after all a WP:BLPPRIMARY. Lots of well-known persons release memoirs or auto-biographies and lots of claims are made in such works, but Wikipedia should probably treat them as only claims unless they can be corroborated by some pretty strong independent secondary sources. It's probably OK to phrase things as "Page claims in Pageboy ..." or "Page states in Pageboy ..." in the article with respect to the stuff in that book, but the sentence about his relationship with Kate Mara makes it seem as if it's a statement of fact even though it's not clear whether Mara has officially commented or confirmed said relationship as of yet. Similar content was also added to Kate Mara#Personal life and it's also treated as if it's a statement of fact as opposed to an unverified claim. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:24, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
There are currently three photos of Elliot before his transition, yet only two after. Can we balance this out a bit better? —Entropy ( talk) 22:06, 7 July 2023 (UTC)