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This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more transgender people. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
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Frequently asked questions Please read the following FAQs before posting.
They are meant to familiarize you with points that have been previously addressed, though not to prevent further discussion of these issues.
Q1: Why does Wikipedia include Elliot Page's
deadname?
A1:
Wikipedia's guidelines say that we should include the birth name for a living transgender person in the lead sentence only if the person was notable under that name. This is the case for Elliot Page. |
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this seems to be missing from the page, but Elliot has also said they are non-binary multiple times VictoriousBard ( talk) 06:41, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
The second paragraph starts: While presenting as female...
From the context, I assume is not referring to their job as a
television presenter, but it is not very clear. Could that be changed to something more clear?
147.12.250.163 (
talk)
21:41, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
Another oddly worded statement is "was assigned female at birth"... this makes it sound like the parents or physician had to make a choice for some sort of medical reason...... makes it sound like there was something wrong.
Moxy-
01:51, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Replace the word assigned with observed. The word assigned is incorrect as no one assigns a sex to a baby, like if a doctor assigned female to a baby with a penis, it wouldn’t make them a female. So observed female at birth is far more accurate as he was born female and female is the sex that was observed. 2601:647:8000:F5A0:C0E8:8EB1:6E91:8259 ( talk) 20:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
I have added Page's birth name, in line with MOS:DEADNAME and want to add some explanatory notes. Page was clearly notable under the name Ellen Philpotts-Page and was nominated for a Gemini Award (predecessor of the Canadian Screen Award for Best Performance in a Children’s or Youth Program or Series under this name -- and credited under this name. Sources for that include:
The birth name also appears in other news articles and books, identifying it as a birth name, both at the time the birth name was used professionally and after the name Ellen Page was used professionally (which was sometime before the 2002 nomination for the Young Artist Award), including:
It's a clear case of notability under this name. Samp4ngeles ( talk) 09:23, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
the birth name may be given in the lead as well, if relevant...Specific guidelines apply to living transgender and non-binary people.(emphasis mine) The explanatory footnote calls out
privacy interests in their birth names, and while it says that in most cases, that privacy concern doesn't stop us from listing the birth name in the lead for living public figures, it indicates via wikilink that trans people are specifically not most cases. Your assertion that including it increases clarity beggars belief; one of your links is to the Internet Archive, and the TV Guide one is internally linked itself to an article titled Elliot Page. Your Canadian Encyclopedia link primarily identifies Elliot as, well, Elliot, and I'm guessing the Who's Who links also do not primarily identify him by his birth name, as they were all published 8 years or more after he stopped using it professionally. So, no, I do not find it remotely plausible that a reader might honestly come to this page from that name without any indication of one of the other names already in the lede. Moreover, it's not like it's hard to figure out "Philpotts-Page" is related to "Page". It doesn't provide any actual benefit to the reader, other than as trivia, and again, the privacy and deadname concerns outweigh the value of a piece of trivia, especially when placed in the lead sentence.
Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy.Writ Keeper ⚇ ♔ 14:21, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
References
Close to You will have its New York Premiere at NewFest Pride on June 1, 2024. [1] Eternalshrugemoji ( talk) 19:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
Why does the article retrofit past events with he and him when at the time it was she and her? You can't change the part. 101.119.117.21 ( talk) 20:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Elliot Page article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6Auto-archiving period: 60 days
![]() |
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more transgender people. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
![]() | This biographical article uses the pronouns he/him/his. |
Frequently asked questions Please read the following FAQs before posting.
They are meant to familiarize you with points that have been previously addressed, though not to prevent further discussion of these issues.
Q1: Why does Wikipedia include Elliot Page's
deadname?
A1:
Wikipedia's guidelines say that we should include the birth name for a living transgender person in the lead sentence only if the person was notable under that name. This is the case for Elliot Page. |
![]() | This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
Top 25 Report 7 times. The weeks in which this happened:
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on February 21, 2020 and February 21, 2024. |
![]() | This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
this seems to be missing from the page, but Elliot has also said they are non-binary multiple times VictoriousBard ( talk) 06:41, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
The second paragraph starts: While presenting as female...
From the context, I assume is not referring to their job as a
television presenter, but it is not very clear. Could that be changed to something more clear?
147.12.250.163 (
talk)
21:41, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
Another oddly worded statement is "was assigned female at birth"... this makes it sound like the parents or physician had to make a choice for some sort of medical reason...... makes it sound like there was something wrong.
Moxy-
01:51, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Replace the word assigned with observed. The word assigned is incorrect as no one assigns a sex to a baby, like if a doctor assigned female to a baby with a penis, it wouldn’t make them a female. So observed female at birth is far more accurate as he was born female and female is the sex that was observed. 2601:647:8000:F5A0:C0E8:8EB1:6E91:8259 ( talk) 20:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
I have added Page's birth name, in line with MOS:DEADNAME and want to add some explanatory notes. Page was clearly notable under the name Ellen Philpotts-Page and was nominated for a Gemini Award (predecessor of the Canadian Screen Award for Best Performance in a Children’s or Youth Program or Series under this name -- and credited under this name. Sources for that include:
The birth name also appears in other news articles and books, identifying it as a birth name, both at the time the birth name was used professionally and after the name Ellen Page was used professionally (which was sometime before the 2002 nomination for the Young Artist Award), including:
It's a clear case of notability under this name. Samp4ngeles ( talk) 09:23, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
the birth name may be given in the lead as well, if relevant...Specific guidelines apply to living transgender and non-binary people.(emphasis mine) The explanatory footnote calls out
privacy interests in their birth names, and while it says that in most cases, that privacy concern doesn't stop us from listing the birth name in the lead for living public figures, it indicates via wikilink that trans people are specifically not most cases. Your assertion that including it increases clarity beggars belief; one of your links is to the Internet Archive, and the TV Guide one is internally linked itself to an article titled Elliot Page. Your Canadian Encyclopedia link primarily identifies Elliot as, well, Elliot, and I'm guessing the Who's Who links also do not primarily identify him by his birth name, as they were all published 8 years or more after he stopped using it professionally. So, no, I do not find it remotely plausible that a reader might honestly come to this page from that name without any indication of one of the other names already in the lede. Moreover, it's not like it's hard to figure out "Philpotts-Page" is related to "Page". It doesn't provide any actual benefit to the reader, other than as trivia, and again, the privacy and deadname concerns outweigh the value of a piece of trivia, especially when placed in the lead sentence.
Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy.Writ Keeper ⚇ ♔ 14:21, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
References
Close to You will have its New York Premiere at NewFest Pride on June 1, 2024. [1] Eternalshrugemoji ( talk) 19:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
Why does the article retrofit past events with he and him when at the time it was she and her? You can't change the part. 101.119.117.21 ( talk) 20:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)