This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have come across a number of references to the "Susian" language; are Susian and Elamite synonymous, or is Susian distinct, or does it represent a period of Elamite (i.e. late Elamite)? Tom Radulovich 19:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I have removed this bit:
First off, this doesn't make sense: the entire point of a language family is that every language of that family is a descendant of the associated proto-language. Kurdish and Farsi were both once Proto-Iranian, just as Kurdish and English were both once proto-Indo-European. So no "different origins" are possible. If the writer meant to argue that Kurdish is an Iranian language built upon an Elamite linguistic substrate, well fine, but that needs to be expressed and to be credibly sourced.
Which brings me to the next point: the site cited does not appear notable and looks like the work of one person with an agenda. The crankish rant about being ignored by the academic establishment is an immediate yellow flag. Later, the author explicitly rejects the characterization of Kurdish as a Iranian language, which is completely absurd. -- Saforrest 05:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.27.252.129 ( talk • contribs) 11:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC).
I corrected and added some information. For example, the article wasn't written by Sergei Starostin, but George Starostin, his son. Please, feel free to correct my English, as I'm not a native speaker. :) Thanks in advance. P. 04:43, 4 June 2006 213.168.173.197
There is no definitive proof that linear-Elamite was a syllabary or that it was used to write Elamite. I therefore suggest to call the writing system linear-Elamite (in accordance with tradition), and not Old Elamite. I will write a brief entry on linear-Elamite and link from here. Jacob Dahl, 20060604
Any information on Elamite Numerals? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.168.173.197 ( talk • contribs) 13:07, 2 February 2007 (UTC).
There needs to be an explanation why it was adopted as an "official language" (?) by the Achaemenids. -- Ghirla -трёп- 21:09, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
The corresponding article in the German-language Wikipedia (Elamische Sprache)is much, much richer in information than this article. Those who feel strongly about making Elamite better known to the larger public might want to translate the German article into English. In any case, let this talk item be a directive to the German page. Jakob37 ( talk) 03:27, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I have never forgotten my former Persian professor (UCLA) Don Stilo's remarks in class one day in 1974 or 5 about Elamite being related to the Dravidian languages. I wonder if anyone feels it worthy to note that the separatist Tamil groups currently fighting in Sri Lanka refer to themselves as the "Tigers of Elam"? Perhaps there is a connection between Elamite and Tamil. I am not in the linguistics field, but I thought it worthy to at least make a comment. Hats off to everyone for their thoughtful and critical efforts on here. Daniel Sparkman ( talk) 21:41, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I will paste in below recent exchange on this subject between myself and an anonymous correspondent on my personal Talk page and ask that others more knowledgeable than myself please make a decision on this issue. Here is the correspondence so far:
Hi, what exactly did you mean by this? -- Anonymous44 ( talk) 12:47, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
OK, since there have been no other comments, I'll remove "Ilamids" for the time being.-- Anonymous44 ( talk) 19:56, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
Does anybody speak the language? No they don't so how do they know it is not Semitic/Indo European. Modern Persians(Iranians) speak Farsi. So switching from a language that is from a completely different family is a very dramatic change. Can tell why linguists don't think that Elamite is not a Semtic/Indo-European language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.64.242 ( talk) 16:28, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
In the writings of some early Arabic/Muslim geographers, mention is made of an "unintelligible dialect" which they occurred here and there in Khuzestan. Some scholars have suggested that this idiom could have represented a late survival of Elamite, based the plausible assumption that the Arabic geographers were familiar with all other probable alternatives such as Persian, Kurdish, Aramaic and the like. I agree that the suggestion sounds plausible, even if it is, of course, conjecture. See the German article for citations. Could be mentioned here, too, with all due caution. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 22:39, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
See also Origin of the name Khuzestan for further details and citations. Encyclopædia Iranica is probably the best source to use as it is supremely scholarly and renowned, written in English, and largely available online. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 22:49, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Elamite language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:51, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Elamite language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:38, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
It would seem that by 2650 B.C. when an Elamite king is first attested IN Elamite, that the language would have been solidly formed. I am aware that the proto-Elamite script is still not decipherable - correct? - so we don't know if what is said is in the Elamite language. Are there sources which push the language back to 3100 B.C., etc.? 50.111.14.1 ( talk) 23:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have come across a number of references to the "Susian" language; are Susian and Elamite synonymous, or is Susian distinct, or does it represent a period of Elamite (i.e. late Elamite)? Tom Radulovich 19:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I have removed this bit:
First off, this doesn't make sense: the entire point of a language family is that every language of that family is a descendant of the associated proto-language. Kurdish and Farsi were both once Proto-Iranian, just as Kurdish and English were both once proto-Indo-European. So no "different origins" are possible. If the writer meant to argue that Kurdish is an Iranian language built upon an Elamite linguistic substrate, well fine, but that needs to be expressed and to be credibly sourced.
Which brings me to the next point: the site cited does not appear notable and looks like the work of one person with an agenda. The crankish rant about being ignored by the academic establishment is an immediate yellow flag. Later, the author explicitly rejects the characterization of Kurdish as a Iranian language, which is completely absurd. -- Saforrest 05:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.27.252.129 ( talk • contribs) 11:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC).
I corrected and added some information. For example, the article wasn't written by Sergei Starostin, but George Starostin, his son. Please, feel free to correct my English, as I'm not a native speaker. :) Thanks in advance. P. 04:43, 4 June 2006 213.168.173.197
There is no definitive proof that linear-Elamite was a syllabary or that it was used to write Elamite. I therefore suggest to call the writing system linear-Elamite (in accordance with tradition), and not Old Elamite. I will write a brief entry on linear-Elamite and link from here. Jacob Dahl, 20060604
Any information on Elamite Numerals? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.168.173.197 ( talk • contribs) 13:07, 2 February 2007 (UTC).
There needs to be an explanation why it was adopted as an "official language" (?) by the Achaemenids. -- Ghirla -трёп- 21:09, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
The corresponding article in the German-language Wikipedia (Elamische Sprache)is much, much richer in information than this article. Those who feel strongly about making Elamite better known to the larger public might want to translate the German article into English. In any case, let this talk item be a directive to the German page. Jakob37 ( talk) 03:27, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I have never forgotten my former Persian professor (UCLA) Don Stilo's remarks in class one day in 1974 or 5 about Elamite being related to the Dravidian languages. I wonder if anyone feels it worthy to note that the separatist Tamil groups currently fighting in Sri Lanka refer to themselves as the "Tigers of Elam"? Perhaps there is a connection between Elamite and Tamil. I am not in the linguistics field, but I thought it worthy to at least make a comment. Hats off to everyone for their thoughtful and critical efforts on here. Daniel Sparkman ( talk) 21:41, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I will paste in below recent exchange on this subject between myself and an anonymous correspondent on my personal Talk page and ask that others more knowledgeable than myself please make a decision on this issue. Here is the correspondence so far:
Hi, what exactly did you mean by this? -- Anonymous44 ( talk) 12:47, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
OK, since there have been no other comments, I'll remove "Ilamids" for the time being.-- Anonymous44 ( talk) 19:56, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
Does anybody speak the language? No they don't so how do they know it is not Semitic/Indo European. Modern Persians(Iranians) speak Farsi. So switching from a language that is from a completely different family is a very dramatic change. Can tell why linguists don't think that Elamite is not a Semtic/Indo-European language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.64.242 ( talk) 16:28, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
In the writings of some early Arabic/Muslim geographers, mention is made of an "unintelligible dialect" which they occurred here and there in Khuzestan. Some scholars have suggested that this idiom could have represented a late survival of Elamite, based the plausible assumption that the Arabic geographers were familiar with all other probable alternatives such as Persian, Kurdish, Aramaic and the like. I agree that the suggestion sounds plausible, even if it is, of course, conjecture. See the German article for citations. Could be mentioned here, too, with all due caution. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 22:39, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
See also Origin of the name Khuzestan for further details and citations. Encyclopædia Iranica is probably the best source to use as it is supremely scholarly and renowned, written in English, and largely available online. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 22:49, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Elamite language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:51, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Elamite language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:38, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
It would seem that by 2650 B.C. when an Elamite king is first attested IN Elamite, that the language would have been solidly formed. I am aware that the proto-Elamite script is still not decipherable - correct? - so we don't know if what is said is in the Elamite language. Are there sources which push the language back to 3100 B.C., etc.? 50.111.14.1 ( talk) 23:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)