This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
... provides no explanation whatsoever of the meaning of "Leste". Presumably it's "east", but that should be explicitly mentioned. -- 202.28.179.5 ( talk) 05:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Jenks24 ( talk) 04:39, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
East Timor →
Timor-Leste – The proposed name is the UN member and sovereign state name of this country, as you can see
here and
here, respectively. Much of the notability of this entity is a result of it’s status as a UN member. It must be admitted that “Timor-Leste" is not the most common form of this country's name in English. But an important function of a title is to establish proper normative usage. Hence we have article titles at
Mumbai,
Kolkata, and
Côte d'Ivoire, even though Bombay, Calcutta and Ivory Coast are the more commonly used English-language names. Many countries have made name changes upon independence or other status change. For example, Rhodesia became
Zimbabwe, South-West Africa became
Namibia, and Annam became Vietnam. The name “Timor-Leste” was selected upon independence and therefore falls in this catagory.
Kauffner (
talk) 17:01, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
OK, so nobody’s heard of “Timor-Leste”. But the name “East Timor” doesn’t exactly get top billing anywhere either. It is conventional to follow local usage in the case of lesser known locations. Britannica splits the difference with the title East Timor (Timor-Leste). Meanwhile, Huffington Post, The Economist, The New Zealand Herald, the Jakarta Post, and the CIA's World Factbook all use “Timor-Leste”. Usage of the official name has increased dramatically in the last few years, so I will use very recent data. For Google News since 2005, I get 18,700 results for Timor-Leste, and 15,300 results for East Timor. Kauffner ( talk) 17:01, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Extended content
|
---|
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 00:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC) East Timor → Timor-Leste — Discussed many times above. Consensus is to move. Fmph ( talk) 11:13, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
|
Google hits for "East Timor" | Google hits for "Timor-Leste" | |
---|---|---|
New York Times | 8750 | 49 |
Washington Post | 8260 | 5720 |
Wall Street Journal | 314 | 38 |
The Guardian | 50,900 | 1290 |
The Daily Telegraph | 1080 | 36 |
The Independent | 2930 | 26 |
The Globe and Mail | 220 | 14 |
The Age | 43,900 | 845 |
The Australian | 3000 | 152 |
Sydney Morning Herald | 9010 | 789 |
New Zealand Herald | 8580 | 870 |
The Economist | 1760 | 508 |
Now, it's possible the trend has been in the direction of "Timor-Leste"; I can't rule that out. But it does seem fairly clear that across the English-speaking world, based on newspaper articles published in the last few years, "East Timor" is by far the preferred term, and would be more familiar to our readers as well. - Biruitorul Talk 04:52, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi, under the History section there was a citation request for the November 28 1975 declaration of independence. I did a quick search and found this page on the US State Department's website. Would this link be valid?
I wish you well. Tor...
Infobox contains the following names besides English one:
While Name section in the text says:
"The official names under the Constitution are República Democrática de Timor-Leste in Portuguese (pronounced [tiˈmoɾ ˈlɛʃtɨ]) and Repúblika Demokrátika Timór Lorosa'e in Tetum."
That seems to be in contradiction. Someone can explain or correct that? Ruziklan ( talk) 10:56, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I am a late comer to this discussion but my knowledge of usage is in the world, even English speaking world, Timor Leste is more common. In the U.S., most people never heard of the place, but, of those who have, they know the place as "East Timor". Therefore, it would be an Americocentric view. This is not necessarily bad because of the high number of American readers, but it is an American bias. Auchansa ( talk) 00:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes I accept that there is a Wikipedia policy re geographic areas, &c., and common names. However when the article is about not a geographic area, but a modern political nation-state, then surely what that nation-state calls itself is what is important. Retaining other names often seems either to be about political disputes over the "proper" government of that nation-state, or to be a form of neo-colonialism. "We know what you call yourself, but your real name is ..." As has been frequently pointed out in Wikipedia, the use of Google to decide matters assumes some value-free status of Google, a commercial entity dominated, as with the WWW, by US cultural production and English language monolinguality (try googling outside the Anglophone world). Appeals to the past and present state of the English language ignores the dynamic nature of all languages, Wikipedia is not there to fossilise English terms as the correct term for all things, it is to reflect reality in a readable format. I therefore would like to reopen debate about this articles name. Brunswicknic ( talk) 16:17, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Merbabu, seriously I am not being rude, but to speak, to communicate, is value laden. All language use is value laden. There is no "reality of the English language", all living languages are in a state of flux, words and phrases come and go, the use of such terms as nigger and cunt, to use two examples, have changed their values over time. The words we use reflect our values, I believe that people, as represented by nation-states, have a right to call themselves and ask others to call them, the name of their choice. Merbabu, you chose that for yourself here on Wikipedia, you have chosen an 'unreal' name here, as have I. I strongly believe that it is an act of cultural dominance to insist that nation-states be called by names that others have chosen for them. Timor Leste calls itself Timor Leste, Brunswicknic ( talk) 10:52, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
--Merbabu, you say there is policy that privileges usage above all in place in Wikipedia, why does not apply to the Britain or America. --Khajidha, do you know how many words in English come from sources other than Anglo-Saxon or even Norman-French? Perhaps look up the etymology of say tattoo (both meanings), amuck, gong, ketchup, hickory. Arrogance is not requesting that people respect other people, arrogance is demanding that your way is the only way. Your user name has an English language translation, should wikipedia refuse to accept it? Brunswicknic ( talk) 18:19, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Archive & Museum of the timorese resistance, www.fmsoares.pt/iniciativas/iniciativa?id=000857 -- 178.115.250.1 ( talk) 11:03, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
The name "Timor-Leste" is currently given three times in opening sentence. This is poor writing style to say the least. If somebody wants to RM this article so that this nation may be titled at its correct name, I will be the first to !vote "support." I have done everything I can to move this article, and I have the hate mail, vandalism, page protection, etc. to prove it. So I think I can speak with some street cred here: Until the page is moved, the opening must correspond to the current title. This is because we have rules:
added membership update in a new section of foreign relations. maybe other content relating to foreign relations should also be moved this new section. the section is same structure as Singapore page. thevikas ( talk) 03:57, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Under 'culture' it is said that "The culture of East Timor reflects numerous influences, including Portuguese, Roman Catholic, and Malaysia, on the indigenous Austronesian and Melanesian cultures of Timor." How did Malaysia influence East Timor's culture? I would say that Indonesian (especially Javanese) influence is much larger. 202.167.250.43 ( talk) 09:23, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
I find this geographical specification rather bewildering if not to say "anglocentric". Why is the geographical situation of a souvereign nation state with over a million inhabitants specified relative to the position of some Australian city of mediocre importance (no hard feelings, Darwin, Australia)? If at all, it would seem to make sense the other way round! Who except someone from Australia would care about the distance between Darwin and East-Timor (and which part of East-Timor anyway)? Is Wikipedia a travel guide for Australians? If "nearest anglophone place" becomes a relevant piece of information on Wikipedia, why not include those silly CIA fact book facts like "twice the size of Texas". Anyway, enough of my rant. I will therefore remove this particular piece of information from the article. Maybe someone can come up with a more neutral and relevant description of the country's geographical situation. -- Rappatoni ( talk) 15:11, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Well, it wouldn't be wrong to say, it is 600 km northwest of Australia. That's the way how I explain people in Germany, where Timor is located. But Darwin is not as well known in the world, too. That's really a little bit anglocentric. I wouldn't have problems with size descriptions like "twice the size of Texas". Texas is quite well known outside the US. We are using in German Wikipedia this kind, too, if there is not a German speaking country or federal state, which hits the number. By the way: East Timor has more or less the same size like Schleswig-Holstein. ;-) -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 12:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Maybe I'm late adding this; but: It makes more sense if you take the time to look at a map. Map of East Timor in relation to Darwin. Nearest overseas country (except Indonesia--who the East Timorese hate): Australia. Nearest Australian city: Darwin. If I remember correctly, Australia gave asylum to independence leaders such as Jose Ramos-Horta during the Indonesian occupation of East Timor/Timor Leste and some of those based themselves in Darwin from whence they could make radio broadcasts. When blockaded by Indonesia, Darwin was the only entry point by air and was also the launch point for Operation Astute. Darwin may loom a little larger in the eyes of the East Timorese than in yours.
Compare (from the Wikipedia article on Bermuda): "Its nearest landmass is Cape Hatteras, North Carolina, about 1,030 kilometres (640 mi) to the west-northwest. It is about 1,239 kilometres (770 mi) south of Cape Sable Island, Nova Scotia, and 1,770 kilometres (1,100 mi) northeast of Miami." — Preceding unsigned comment added by StonePeter ( talk • contribs) 18:40, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
This picture was deleted with the comment: "Picture is highly contentious. Please discuss". Well, I wouldn't say this. The picture documents the protest of Timorese against Australian government. A encyclopedia documents reality. The Timorese anger is reality. Same case like this Australian propaganda picture from WWII. It is in use in four articles in en-wikipedia. Different measuring for different countries? -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 20:02, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
More sources showing opinion of people in East Timor: " The problem is they steal our oil then sell it in other places to buy some kind of equipment bring to East Timor trough AusAid Funding. Because of all this reason this afternoon I would like to bring to the attention of the Timorese community and International community to be careful dealing with people from AusAid. AusAid is an espionage agent." or " Australia has been stealing the oil and gas from the Timor Sea, in an area which belongs to Timor-Leste under international legal principles. Sadly, Australia has shown its manner and its greed to make our small and poor country in this region lose our resources and sovereignty". -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 20:57, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Dear Daniel, please no devaluations. I am not a beginner, I am wikipedia editor for eight years now, so please don't tell me sth about Wikipedia policies. It is normal to show photos of street art at wikipedia to show political opinions from the street. You are asking for references, which are not requested by Wikipedia. This photo is in use. In Timor AND online. I gave references about the allegation about "stealing oil". You are asking for references of a large scale use of this picture, which is not requested. Posting this image does not mean, East Timorese opinion is correct. This graffito shows the emotions in East Timor very well and documents excellent the problems of relations between Australia and East Timor. By the way: I am not East Timorese, I am German. Where are you from? -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 12:55, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia reflects the reality. Closing eyes before conflicts between countries is not part of that. -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 12:59, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
It is getting ridiculous. The picture is showing a wall in East Timor. That is shown by its source. You want a reference, that it is in use. It is on a wall and even IF it would be just one time used, this is still enough. It is enough. I would maybe understand your arguments, if it would be just a computer made logo. But the existence of a picture on a wall is proved by the photo on its own.
I brought references proving the opinion, which it is illustrating, is going around in East Timor. You can find several news articles about the huff in East Timor. It is legitimate for current events to use news as reference, because scientific papers are never available for these.
The picture does only say, there are Timorese, who are believing Australia is stealing Timorese oil. Nothing more. I said, we can write below Timorese propaganda, if you are afraid people would think, this is a verified fact. Looking at Syrian Civil War I would thinking, it is more problematic to show a picture of dead kids and subtitle it with "Unverfied image of people in Ghouta killed by a chemical attack in August 2013".
And you still didn't say, where you from. NOt from Australia? -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 19:16, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
You can find at Libyan Civil War a picture of "Graffiti in Benghazi, drawing the connection to the Arab Spring". Same case. Only not against Australia. Is this the difference? -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 19:20, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Or at 2012–13 Egyptian protests: "Anti-Morsi graffiti". Do you want more examples? Several at 2013 protests in Turkey. -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 19:23, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Thinking about our discussion about thisnot relevant graffiti, reading this. ^^ Greetings from Germany, -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 14:35, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
I don't see East Timor as having a parliamentary system, but just a semi-presidential republic. The President has significant powers. Plus, its constitution is based on the Portuguese one: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1644026. B.Lameira ( talk) 17:06, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
I'm baffled by this qualification in the first sentence - presumably the editor only knows that it's common use there? In any case I'm not sure that it's necessary, or at least we could say it's also usually called East Timor in the UK... maybe the English-speaking world? Any Australians / Irish people / etc like to offer an opinion? 81.147.135.249 ( talk) 19:20, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
It should mention that East Timor is in the continent of Australia. 99.230.223.144 ( talk) 21:16, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Is Repúblika Demokrátika Timór-Leste really Tetum? It's so very similar to the Portuguese name that it makes me think it must be the creole mentioned in the Tetum language article: Tetun Dili
After all proper Tetum and Portugese aren't realated. And the tetum article states: "Besides the grammatical simplification involved in creolization, Tetun Dili has been greatly influenced by the vocabulary of Portuguese,"
and later: The Tetum name for East Timor is Timór Lorosa'e, which means "Timor of the rising sun", Which gives a different Tetum name than the info box. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8108:1CC0:11D4:9802:7236:3EC:CEBF ( talk) 17:23, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Ok now I saw that the Info box on the Tetum language article states that the creole, rather than "proper" Tetum is an official language in East Timor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8108:1CC0:11D4:9802:7236:3EC:CEBF ( talk) 17:29, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
The article states that the US supported the invasion. Based on what information? If this is the case, it should be stated why the US supported the invasion and towards what end. I know it is popular to blame the US for all the world's problems but the accusation should be backed with evidence. Wikipedia strives to be objective in its content and, therefore, should not be filtered through the lens of Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky.
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
... provides no explanation whatsoever of the meaning of "Leste". Presumably it's "east", but that should be explicitly mentioned. -- 202.28.179.5 ( talk) 05:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Jenks24 ( talk) 04:39, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
East Timor →
Timor-Leste – The proposed name is the UN member and sovereign state name of this country, as you can see
here and
here, respectively. Much of the notability of this entity is a result of it’s status as a UN member. It must be admitted that “Timor-Leste" is not the most common form of this country's name in English. But an important function of a title is to establish proper normative usage. Hence we have article titles at
Mumbai,
Kolkata, and
Côte d'Ivoire, even though Bombay, Calcutta and Ivory Coast are the more commonly used English-language names. Many countries have made name changes upon independence or other status change. For example, Rhodesia became
Zimbabwe, South-West Africa became
Namibia, and Annam became Vietnam. The name “Timor-Leste” was selected upon independence and therefore falls in this catagory.
Kauffner (
talk) 17:01, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
OK, so nobody’s heard of “Timor-Leste”. But the name “East Timor” doesn’t exactly get top billing anywhere either. It is conventional to follow local usage in the case of lesser known locations. Britannica splits the difference with the title East Timor (Timor-Leste). Meanwhile, Huffington Post, The Economist, The New Zealand Herald, the Jakarta Post, and the CIA's World Factbook all use “Timor-Leste”. Usage of the official name has increased dramatically in the last few years, so I will use very recent data. For Google News since 2005, I get 18,700 results for Timor-Leste, and 15,300 results for East Timor. Kauffner ( talk) 17:01, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Extended content
|
---|
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 00:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC) East Timor → Timor-Leste — Discussed many times above. Consensus is to move. Fmph ( talk) 11:13, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
|
Google hits for "East Timor" | Google hits for "Timor-Leste" | |
---|---|---|
New York Times | 8750 | 49 |
Washington Post | 8260 | 5720 |
Wall Street Journal | 314 | 38 |
The Guardian | 50,900 | 1290 |
The Daily Telegraph | 1080 | 36 |
The Independent | 2930 | 26 |
The Globe and Mail | 220 | 14 |
The Age | 43,900 | 845 |
The Australian | 3000 | 152 |
Sydney Morning Herald | 9010 | 789 |
New Zealand Herald | 8580 | 870 |
The Economist | 1760 | 508 |
Now, it's possible the trend has been in the direction of "Timor-Leste"; I can't rule that out. But it does seem fairly clear that across the English-speaking world, based on newspaper articles published in the last few years, "East Timor" is by far the preferred term, and would be more familiar to our readers as well. - Biruitorul Talk 04:52, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi, under the History section there was a citation request for the November 28 1975 declaration of independence. I did a quick search and found this page on the US State Department's website. Would this link be valid?
I wish you well. Tor...
Infobox contains the following names besides English one:
While Name section in the text says:
"The official names under the Constitution are República Democrática de Timor-Leste in Portuguese (pronounced [tiˈmoɾ ˈlɛʃtɨ]) and Repúblika Demokrátika Timór Lorosa'e in Tetum."
That seems to be in contradiction. Someone can explain or correct that? Ruziklan ( talk) 10:56, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I am a late comer to this discussion but my knowledge of usage is in the world, even English speaking world, Timor Leste is more common. In the U.S., most people never heard of the place, but, of those who have, they know the place as "East Timor". Therefore, it would be an Americocentric view. This is not necessarily bad because of the high number of American readers, but it is an American bias. Auchansa ( talk) 00:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes I accept that there is a Wikipedia policy re geographic areas, &c., and common names. However when the article is about not a geographic area, but a modern political nation-state, then surely what that nation-state calls itself is what is important. Retaining other names often seems either to be about political disputes over the "proper" government of that nation-state, or to be a form of neo-colonialism. "We know what you call yourself, but your real name is ..." As has been frequently pointed out in Wikipedia, the use of Google to decide matters assumes some value-free status of Google, a commercial entity dominated, as with the WWW, by US cultural production and English language monolinguality (try googling outside the Anglophone world). Appeals to the past and present state of the English language ignores the dynamic nature of all languages, Wikipedia is not there to fossilise English terms as the correct term for all things, it is to reflect reality in a readable format. I therefore would like to reopen debate about this articles name. Brunswicknic ( talk) 16:17, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Merbabu, seriously I am not being rude, but to speak, to communicate, is value laden. All language use is value laden. There is no "reality of the English language", all living languages are in a state of flux, words and phrases come and go, the use of such terms as nigger and cunt, to use two examples, have changed their values over time. The words we use reflect our values, I believe that people, as represented by nation-states, have a right to call themselves and ask others to call them, the name of their choice. Merbabu, you chose that for yourself here on Wikipedia, you have chosen an 'unreal' name here, as have I. I strongly believe that it is an act of cultural dominance to insist that nation-states be called by names that others have chosen for them. Timor Leste calls itself Timor Leste, Brunswicknic ( talk) 10:52, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
--Merbabu, you say there is policy that privileges usage above all in place in Wikipedia, why does not apply to the Britain or America. --Khajidha, do you know how many words in English come from sources other than Anglo-Saxon or even Norman-French? Perhaps look up the etymology of say tattoo (both meanings), amuck, gong, ketchup, hickory. Arrogance is not requesting that people respect other people, arrogance is demanding that your way is the only way. Your user name has an English language translation, should wikipedia refuse to accept it? Brunswicknic ( talk) 18:19, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Archive & Museum of the timorese resistance, www.fmsoares.pt/iniciativas/iniciativa?id=000857 -- 178.115.250.1 ( talk) 11:03, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
The name "Timor-Leste" is currently given three times in opening sentence. This is poor writing style to say the least. If somebody wants to RM this article so that this nation may be titled at its correct name, I will be the first to !vote "support." I have done everything I can to move this article, and I have the hate mail, vandalism, page protection, etc. to prove it. So I think I can speak with some street cred here: Until the page is moved, the opening must correspond to the current title. This is because we have rules:
added membership update in a new section of foreign relations. maybe other content relating to foreign relations should also be moved this new section. the section is same structure as Singapore page. thevikas ( talk) 03:57, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Under 'culture' it is said that "The culture of East Timor reflects numerous influences, including Portuguese, Roman Catholic, and Malaysia, on the indigenous Austronesian and Melanesian cultures of Timor." How did Malaysia influence East Timor's culture? I would say that Indonesian (especially Javanese) influence is much larger. 202.167.250.43 ( talk) 09:23, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
I find this geographical specification rather bewildering if not to say "anglocentric". Why is the geographical situation of a souvereign nation state with over a million inhabitants specified relative to the position of some Australian city of mediocre importance (no hard feelings, Darwin, Australia)? If at all, it would seem to make sense the other way round! Who except someone from Australia would care about the distance between Darwin and East-Timor (and which part of East-Timor anyway)? Is Wikipedia a travel guide for Australians? If "nearest anglophone place" becomes a relevant piece of information on Wikipedia, why not include those silly CIA fact book facts like "twice the size of Texas". Anyway, enough of my rant. I will therefore remove this particular piece of information from the article. Maybe someone can come up with a more neutral and relevant description of the country's geographical situation. -- Rappatoni ( talk) 15:11, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Well, it wouldn't be wrong to say, it is 600 km northwest of Australia. That's the way how I explain people in Germany, where Timor is located. But Darwin is not as well known in the world, too. That's really a little bit anglocentric. I wouldn't have problems with size descriptions like "twice the size of Texas". Texas is quite well known outside the US. We are using in German Wikipedia this kind, too, if there is not a German speaking country or federal state, which hits the number. By the way: East Timor has more or less the same size like Schleswig-Holstein. ;-) -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 12:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Maybe I'm late adding this; but: It makes more sense if you take the time to look at a map. Map of East Timor in relation to Darwin. Nearest overseas country (except Indonesia--who the East Timorese hate): Australia. Nearest Australian city: Darwin. If I remember correctly, Australia gave asylum to independence leaders such as Jose Ramos-Horta during the Indonesian occupation of East Timor/Timor Leste and some of those based themselves in Darwin from whence they could make radio broadcasts. When blockaded by Indonesia, Darwin was the only entry point by air and was also the launch point for Operation Astute. Darwin may loom a little larger in the eyes of the East Timorese than in yours.
Compare (from the Wikipedia article on Bermuda): "Its nearest landmass is Cape Hatteras, North Carolina, about 1,030 kilometres (640 mi) to the west-northwest. It is about 1,239 kilometres (770 mi) south of Cape Sable Island, Nova Scotia, and 1,770 kilometres (1,100 mi) northeast of Miami." — Preceding unsigned comment added by StonePeter ( talk • contribs) 18:40, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
This picture was deleted with the comment: "Picture is highly contentious. Please discuss". Well, I wouldn't say this. The picture documents the protest of Timorese against Australian government. A encyclopedia documents reality. The Timorese anger is reality. Same case like this Australian propaganda picture from WWII. It is in use in four articles in en-wikipedia. Different measuring for different countries? -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 20:02, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
More sources showing opinion of people in East Timor: " The problem is they steal our oil then sell it in other places to buy some kind of equipment bring to East Timor trough AusAid Funding. Because of all this reason this afternoon I would like to bring to the attention of the Timorese community and International community to be careful dealing with people from AusAid. AusAid is an espionage agent." or " Australia has been stealing the oil and gas from the Timor Sea, in an area which belongs to Timor-Leste under international legal principles. Sadly, Australia has shown its manner and its greed to make our small and poor country in this region lose our resources and sovereignty". -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 20:57, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Dear Daniel, please no devaluations. I am not a beginner, I am wikipedia editor for eight years now, so please don't tell me sth about Wikipedia policies. It is normal to show photos of street art at wikipedia to show political opinions from the street. You are asking for references, which are not requested by Wikipedia. This photo is in use. In Timor AND online. I gave references about the allegation about "stealing oil". You are asking for references of a large scale use of this picture, which is not requested. Posting this image does not mean, East Timorese opinion is correct. This graffito shows the emotions in East Timor very well and documents excellent the problems of relations between Australia and East Timor. By the way: I am not East Timorese, I am German. Where are you from? -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 12:55, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia reflects the reality. Closing eyes before conflicts between countries is not part of that. -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 12:59, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
It is getting ridiculous. The picture is showing a wall in East Timor. That is shown by its source. You want a reference, that it is in use. It is on a wall and even IF it would be just one time used, this is still enough. It is enough. I would maybe understand your arguments, if it would be just a computer made logo. But the existence of a picture on a wall is proved by the photo on its own.
I brought references proving the opinion, which it is illustrating, is going around in East Timor. You can find several news articles about the huff in East Timor. It is legitimate for current events to use news as reference, because scientific papers are never available for these.
The picture does only say, there are Timorese, who are believing Australia is stealing Timorese oil. Nothing more. I said, we can write below Timorese propaganda, if you are afraid people would think, this is a verified fact. Looking at Syrian Civil War I would thinking, it is more problematic to show a picture of dead kids and subtitle it with "Unverfied image of people in Ghouta killed by a chemical attack in August 2013".
And you still didn't say, where you from. NOt from Australia? -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 19:16, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
You can find at Libyan Civil War a picture of "Graffiti in Benghazi, drawing the connection to the Arab Spring". Same case. Only not against Australia. Is this the difference? -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 19:20, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Or at 2012–13 Egyptian protests: "Anti-Morsi graffiti". Do you want more examples? Several at 2013 protests in Turkey. -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 19:23, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Thinking about our discussion about thisnot relevant graffiti, reading this. ^^ Greetings from Germany, -- J. Patrick Fischer ( talk) 14:35, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
I don't see East Timor as having a parliamentary system, but just a semi-presidential republic. The President has significant powers. Plus, its constitution is based on the Portuguese one: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1644026. B.Lameira ( talk) 17:06, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
I'm baffled by this qualification in the first sentence - presumably the editor only knows that it's common use there? In any case I'm not sure that it's necessary, or at least we could say it's also usually called East Timor in the UK... maybe the English-speaking world? Any Australians / Irish people / etc like to offer an opinion? 81.147.135.249 ( talk) 19:20, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
It should mention that East Timor is in the continent of Australia. 99.230.223.144 ( talk) 21:16, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Is Repúblika Demokrátika Timór-Leste really Tetum? It's so very similar to the Portuguese name that it makes me think it must be the creole mentioned in the Tetum language article: Tetun Dili
After all proper Tetum and Portugese aren't realated. And the tetum article states: "Besides the grammatical simplification involved in creolization, Tetun Dili has been greatly influenced by the vocabulary of Portuguese,"
and later: The Tetum name for East Timor is Timór Lorosa'e, which means "Timor of the rising sun", Which gives a different Tetum name than the info box. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8108:1CC0:11D4:9802:7236:3EC:CEBF ( talk) 17:23, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Ok now I saw that the Info box on the Tetum language article states that the creole, rather than "proper" Tetum is an official language in East Timor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8108:1CC0:11D4:9802:7236:3EC:CEBF ( talk) 17:29, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
The article states that the US supported the invasion. Based on what information? If this is the case, it should be stated why the US supported the invasion and towards what end. I know it is popular to blame the US for all the world's problems but the accusation should be backed with evidence. Wikipedia strives to be objective in its content and, therefore, should not be filtered through the lens of Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky.