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The word ‘district’ is sometimes used for a translation of gaiku (街区) or chōchō (町丁), which is much smaller than gun (郡). This ambiguity can be confusing. —
Chiro08 (
talk) 10:38, 30 July 2018 (UTC)reply
I agree that "county" is a better translation.
Minato Mirai has 67 gaiku, which should be translated as districts. We should abide by that MLIT regulation. Also, gun (郡) in Japan are totally different from
school districts or
electoral districts.
Shinkansen Fan (
talk) 18:45, 22 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Requested move 22 January 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Comment: Please link to these MLIT rules you reference. Also, on Wikipedia, we go by the most
common name, not by what some rules somewhere say, even if they are official government rules. I will say, in all the various Japan-related books and articles I've read, "district" is—by far—the most common way I've seen "-gun" translated. ···
日本穣 ·
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Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan! 22:02, 27 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment:MLIT rules. 第14条 郡名の英語表記は、置換方式によるものとする。表音のローマ字表記の Gun を County にして表記するものとする。 Translation: Article 14: The English notation of the county name shall be by the replacement method. Gun in the Roman alphabet of the phonetic notation shall be written as County.Hvn0413 (
talk) 02:49, 30 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment: changing the standard from "district" to "county" would affect hundreds of articles - the title of every article on a Japanese -gun, and additionally every single one that mentions districts in Japan. Is RM really the appropriate place to discuss this? --
asilvering (
talk) 08:50, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Some of us came from
WT:JAPAN, and the discussion is happening here. There's no need to respond there since we're having the discussion here. ···
日本穣 ·
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Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan! 16:42, 4 February 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment I added this PDF to
Japanese place names as an external link. My understanding is that these MLIT rules are guidelines rather than regulations. I think we need such guidelines for Japanese place names.
Shinkansen Fan (
talk) 16:38, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose until and unless it can be shown that "county" is the most commonly used method in reliable English-language sources (per my comment, above). ···
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Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan! 18:19, 1 February 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose as Nihonjoe says... FWIW, I don't think either word is a particularly good choice. "County" might seem appropriate in comparison with the US, where "counties" are the subdivisions of the major divisions of the country (i.e. the states); but the original "counties" in the UK are themselves the major division, thus much more like ken. "District" is not a particularly good choice, simply because it is very vague as has been pointed out. But changing this would need a major discussion, and a persuasive majority of English-speaking sources showing that "county" is widely used. The MLIT "rules" should be ignored; they are Japanese-language rules for what to write on road signs, maps, and similar. Some of their suggestions are sensible, others are ridiculous (e.g. Iss for 諸島). Another point is that these are no longer administrative districts (since 1926 or something), and moreover are disappearing. When Sano, the town, or so-called "city", where I live swallowed up the neighbouring villages (or so-called "towns") of Kuzū and Tanuma, which formed a Asō-gun, the latter simply disappeared. I might try to find a signpost marking the boundary of a gun, but I wager it will not say "County", but will be abbreviated to the point of incomprehensibility - that's how it works.
Imaginatorium (
talk) 18:34, 1 February 2022 (UTC)reply
Thank you for this clear expression of the problem with "county". It was bothering me for this reason but I didn't quite manage to think it out myself. --
asilvering (
talk) 18:51, 1 February 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Japan-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to
participate, please visit the
project page, where you can join the project, participate in
relevant discussions, and see
lists of open tasks. Current time in Japan: 23:26, June 20, 2024 (
JST,
Reiwa 6) (Refresh)JapanWikipedia:WikiProject JapanTemplate:WikiProject JapanJapan-related articles
The word ‘district’ is sometimes used for a translation of gaiku (街区) or chōchō (町丁), which is much smaller than gun (郡). This ambiguity can be confusing. —
Chiro08 (
talk) 10:38, 30 July 2018 (UTC)reply
I agree that "county" is a better translation.
Minato Mirai has 67 gaiku, which should be translated as districts. We should abide by that MLIT regulation. Also, gun (郡) in Japan are totally different from
school districts or
electoral districts.
Shinkansen Fan (
talk) 18:45, 22 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Requested move 22 January 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Comment: Please link to these MLIT rules you reference. Also, on Wikipedia, we go by the most
common name, not by what some rules somewhere say, even if they are official government rules. I will say, in all the various Japan-related books and articles I've read, "district" is—by far—the most common way I've seen "-gun" translated. ···
日本穣 ·
投稿 ·
Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan! 22:02, 27 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment:MLIT rules. 第14条 郡名の英語表記は、置換方式によるものとする。表音のローマ字表記の Gun を County にして表記するものとする。 Translation: Article 14: The English notation of the county name shall be by the replacement method. Gun in the Roman alphabet of the phonetic notation shall be written as County.Hvn0413 (
talk) 02:49, 30 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment: changing the standard from "district" to "county" would affect hundreds of articles - the title of every article on a Japanese -gun, and additionally every single one that mentions districts in Japan. Is RM really the appropriate place to discuss this? --
asilvering (
talk) 08:50, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Some of us came from
WT:JAPAN, and the discussion is happening here. There's no need to respond there since we're having the discussion here. ···
日本穣 ·
投稿 ·
Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan! 16:42, 4 February 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment I added this PDF to
Japanese place names as an external link. My understanding is that these MLIT rules are guidelines rather than regulations. I think we need such guidelines for Japanese place names.
Shinkansen Fan (
talk) 16:38, 31 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose until and unless it can be shown that "county" is the most commonly used method in reliable English-language sources (per my comment, above). ···
日本穣 ·
投稿 ·
Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan! 18:19, 1 February 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose as Nihonjoe says... FWIW, I don't think either word is a particularly good choice. "County" might seem appropriate in comparison with the US, where "counties" are the subdivisions of the major divisions of the country (i.e. the states); but the original "counties" in the UK are themselves the major division, thus much more like ken. "District" is not a particularly good choice, simply because it is very vague as has been pointed out. But changing this would need a major discussion, and a persuasive majority of English-speaking sources showing that "county" is widely used. The MLIT "rules" should be ignored; they are Japanese-language rules for what to write on road signs, maps, and similar. Some of their suggestions are sensible, others are ridiculous (e.g. Iss for 諸島). Another point is that these are no longer administrative districts (since 1926 or something), and moreover are disappearing. When Sano, the town, or so-called "city", where I live swallowed up the neighbouring villages (or so-called "towns") of Kuzū and Tanuma, which formed a Asō-gun, the latter simply disappeared. I might try to find a signpost marking the boundary of a gun, but I wager it will not say "County", but will be abbreviated to the point of incomprehensibility - that's how it works.
Imaginatorium (
talk) 18:34, 1 February 2022 (UTC)reply
Thank you for this clear expression of the problem with "county". It was bothering me for this reason but I didn't quite manage to think it out myself. --
asilvering (
talk) 18:51, 1 February 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.