This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Debian鈥揗ozilla trademark dispute article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24.59.103.38 03:37, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I quote from Facts about Debian and Mozilla庐 Firefox庐
Update: Debian is going to replace Firefox庐 with a GNU fork called Iceweasel Half-true. For the etch release, Iceweasel will only be Firefox庐 with a different branding. We are taking the Iceweasel name because it was already know as a possible alternative name for Firefox庐 when the trademark concerns have been raised more than 2 years ago (thanks Nathanael Nerode for this nice name, by the way). It appears that the GNU guys decided to start a fork with this name鈥 that鈥檚 quite unfortunate, actually. Anyways, the plan is to get in touch with them to see what we can do together, but with the etch release approaching, we can鈥檛 and won鈥檛 do more than a rename for the moment.
The article doesn't reflect the fact that Debian's Iceweasel won't be the same as GNU's Iceweasel (in short term at least). Shoudn't this be explained? Chali2 06:40, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
How about an article about that as well?
There's an early (1985, maybe?) Matt Groening cartoon, I believe from "Love is Hell," that has the punchline, "At night, the ice weasels come."
Good question! There is a "real" (cute) animal in a "real" picture at http://iceweasel.com/, but there is no reason to think that it is really called an iceweasel -- can't find any google evidence of such. 69.87.193.234 00:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Iceweasel's great in concept; however, there's little detail anywhere on what exactly in Firefox didn't meet GNU standards of Free-dom, and what same will be replaced with. The best I can find is a tenuous link to Plugger, which depends on mplayer, which basically depends on legally grey use of win32 binaries where available; AFAIK, Moz Foundation Firefox ships with no major multimedia plugins at all. This should be clarified, as it will be the big "visible" difference between official Mozilla Foundation releases and the patchset/"psuedo-fork" GNU will maintain for the convenience of third-parties deriving. -- 155.212.34.122 15:52, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, obviously. However, [2] states "While the source code from the Mozilla project is free software, the binaries that they release include additional non-free software. Also, they distribute non-free software as plug-ins." without providing concrete examples. It'd be one thing if GNU Iceweasel were simply a branding for 'customized' distributions -- but does this just mean the logo image files and trademark text are "software," or, as the gripe about binaries and plugins suggests, is any major functionality changing due to license issues? (They're adding a few features, obviously; what I'm asking is *what* actually ships in the binaries to inform the above statement, and this out of sheer curiosity.)-- 155.212.34.122 20:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification! -- 69.0.51.153 02:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC) (the O.P., from home)
The only two problems that the FSF has with Firefox is the use of the non-free Talkback crash reporting tool and the use of a "plugin finder service" that recommends non-free plugins. Please also note that Talkback is being replaced by Airbag as soon as the project is ready (very soon, hopefully). The FSF has no issues with Mozilla protecting its trademark. Please do not confuse Debian with the FSF. Debian has the trademark problems, while the FSF thinks Mozilla is using its trademark just fine. ReedLoden 05:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
To be more specific, Debian is also just fine with Mozilla using its trademarks this way -- but Debian's technical requirements don't allow for the prior approval process required by Mozilla (you can probably find the references to this in the bug reports and in debian-legal archives). So this means that Debian can't use the trademarks, so it has to use a rebranded version. 24.59.103.51
Is there any further discussion to resolve this between Debian and Mozilla? - it seems to me like things are hinging on a very small technical issue - is there any reference for Mozilla's side of this, for NPOV? Widefox 01:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm running Firefox, so was concerned about the claim here of privacy holes in my browser....
CONCLUSION = yes improvement, but not in itself as important as setting your options correctly. Widefox 00:43, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I changed the start of the article, to avoid giving readers the mis-impression that the Debian versions of Firefox are merely rebranded versions of it. Someone changed it back. I'm not going to fight this edit war -- if someone insists on the article being wrong, you all will have to deal with it. The point is, Debian has always insisted on their right to make code changes, without getting permission from Mozilla. This is one of the core reasons for conflict, for the very existence of "IceWeasel"! And Debian is more committed to long-term maintenance of their older versions than Moz is. 69.87.200.131 14:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks -- looks good! Now if someone could track down the details of what patches Debian has actually applied in the various versions, and create a section parallel to "Gnuzilla IceWeasel features"... 69.87.193.151 13:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Who cares? I'm a debian user and this whole iceweasel/icedove thing is a MASSIVE waste of time. I'd think developers would be more interested in filling gaps like how bout a half decent non-linear video editor or I don't know, a good way to standardize X configurations to be used from the gui rather than like we all do it, by hand in the configs. What I'm saying is I can think of at least 1 hundred ways where debian, linux or people in general would benefit better by spending time elsewhere. You don't just fork the code whenever you feel like it because the original developers still want to stay in the loop of their own work. Sure you can and you should be able to, but this is a case of being overly excessive and dramatic about nothing. Positively 100% sure, Iceweasel goes away. This will happen when Firefox continues and the Iceweasel maintainers get bored and see what it is they are really wasting their time on. 鈥擳he preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.3.247.49 ( talk 鈥 contribs). 鈥 ptk鉁 fgs 00:40, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, yes. We all love the humper icon. But there are two official sources of information about browsers called Icweasel: gnu.org and debian.org. The site using the humper icon, geticeweasel.org is not registered to either: see whois info. Yes, the plain globe is boring. It's good to know that the Ubuntu folks are drawing icons, but until they start actually shipping something besides icons, let's stick with the image that's actually being used by the major distributor of this browser.
Besides, ChrisBaird is right. It doesn't even look like a weasel! 鈥 ptk鉁 fgs 13:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
the following section was added recently by an anon and i have removed it again
Other projects that have followed Debian's lead
Gentoo Linux also heavily patches the source code for its distribution, although due to the nature of Gentoo, this is done by the end-user rather than the distribution. However, part of the Gentoo contract is that a user must, if he/she wants, be able to choose to build a system from scratch using entirely free software. Therefore, Gentoo decided to follow Debian's lead and made its default version of Firefox browser unbranded and without the non-free artwork. The Gentoo maintainer decided to name the application "Bon Echo" reflecting the non-trademarked version name of Firefox 2.0. However, the end user can set a use flag, if she/he wants to go ahead and use the non-free artwork anyway.
can some gentoo user comment on if gentoo has really followed debians lead or if they have always used the unbranded build options and the version name by default?
P.S. sorry this post took so long after i deleted the text from the main page, the database was locked just after i made that edit and i got distracted by other things. Plugwash 21:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
It might be worth noting that Gentoo has changed back to shipping a Firefox branded package as the default for those building from source. You can choose to build with a settings that result in a binary that can be redistributed, and Gentoo also offers the option of a precompiled package with the Bon Echo branding. The legal stance is that Gentoo is not in the business of shipping modified binaries, and the license makes no reference to shipping instructions on how to modify the source code. -- 213.79.38.74 14:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Rename. Debian's Iceweasel has a lowercase 'w', like Firefox has a lowercase 'f' for fox. I propose that this article be renamed to use the name Iceweasel, for Debian's usage. Though I acknowledge GNU's IceWeasel does have the capital W, the phrase was coined in 2004 as Iceweasel by Dorland on debian-devel and debian-legal, and it is a more apropos analog to the Firefox name. pbryan 01:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
the earliest reference i know of for the iceape name is the "facts about" blog post, i thought icedove was mentioned there too but either it wasnt or someone removed it (it is mentioned in the comments there though which suggests the removal hypothosis). Plugwash 12:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
What user agent string does Iceweasel use? Is it the same as Firefox? I think the article should mention that. Danny 23:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[...] Debian backports any required security fixes to whatever versions of software are shipped in their stable releases until support for those stable releases are dropped; the Iceweasel rename represents no change in this regard. [...]
So stable should be the latest Debian Etch security advisory? (currently: [7]) and no preview release?
What do you think about it?
84.50.241.254 17:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't want to add this to the article, as I don't know much more than I am about to say, and am not sure if it is notable, hopefully someone with more knowledge of the subject can decide this. From what I understand, Debian stable (Etch), has changed versions of Iceweasel, from 2.0.0.5, to 2.0.0.6, and maybe it was changed before that. The reason I feel this is of interest, is because that is not normal Debian policy for stable, normally in stable packages never receive a version number upgrade, only security updates. In this case i think the exception was made because it was security issues that meant it would be a good idea to actually change version. Although this page seems more about the naming conflict, i couldn't find another page solely for iceweasel (debian), so thought if this should go anywhere, here it must be. Champion sound remix 03:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
s far as I recall, the Mozilla Corporation requires that the Firefox trademark only be used on unmodified software (ie distributed as it comes from the Mozilla Corporation). Debian is 'violates' this in that the stable version of Firefox is not to be updated to a newer release to fix security issues. Instead, security patches are backported to the old version, thus modifying what the Mozilla Corporation initially distributed and making the use of the Firefox Trademark impossible. Somebody would have to look up the whole picture, but I believe the Debian stable policy did play a role in the rename of Firefox. 鈥擯receding unsigned comment added by 12.4.195.228 ( talk) 21:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Small note about verb tenses: "Mozilla Corporation software rebranded in Debian" sounds like the content will be a list. Using a present tense would be more appropriate. The interesting topic isn't the software, is the reasons, background, and reactions to the rebranding. -- Gronky 23:25, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
In the last paragraph of the "Origins of the issue and of the Iceweasel name" section:
This sentence needs a date, and an explanation of how they "adopted the Firefox name". The next sentence says they stayed with the Iceweasel name (for logo issues) - so did they really adopt it? If so, did they adopt it for just a very short time?
A very confusing line needing explanation. Thanks. -- Gronky 14:24, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Not sure how to write this for the article, but what happened was that Debian asked the Mozilla Foundation for permission to use the Firefox name even though they were making alterations (for security patches and for the logos). They *got* that permission, but some months later the permission was *revoked*. 67.241.18.83 ( talk) 02:56, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Maybe some discussion of how the mozilla foundation has really turned into a joke. As the code has gotten better and more usable, more the foundation has been a disapointment. Instead as serving as an important bullwark of the open source community, its now a useless IPO startup trying to make millions from somekind of wacky webmail scam. what the fuck is going on? 鈥擯receding unsigned comment added by 69.17.4.153 ( talk) 01:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposel to merge
Iceape,
Iceowl and
Icedove with this article,
Mozilla software rebranding was approved.
--
Yellowdesk (
talk) 19:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I originally proposed this at Talk:Gnuzilla#Merge, but for IceApe and IceDove this is the more appropriate place. Both arre very short articles, and the only interesting characteristic of both of them is the split from the official builds. These should all be merged into here for now and split again if and when they're fleshed out a bit. Chris Cunningham ( talk) 18:22, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Mozilla software rebranding? 鈥 Omegatron 23:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal to merge with
Firefox was there should not be a merger.
--
Yellowdesk (
talk) 19:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
We shouldn't merge Iceweasel with Firefox, that would violate trademark issues.
I think just wait and see what happens between Debian and Mozilla first. Once they come to a settlement, Wikipedia can decide what makes the most sense. SavantEdge 21:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
User:exobyte:exobyte 1 October 2006
Until a software product actually appears that is named "Iceweasel", this topic is not worthy of a page on its own and should be merged. If one ever does (and I doubt that it will from such a dorky suggestion, but that's beside the point) then this section can be reinstated as a page. 鈥 Hex (鉂?!鉂) 16:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
This article is about the dispute with Debian over naming. It has nothing to do with the general case of rebranding Mozilla software which is the program at http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/about/partnerships.html . I know this article was renamed once before to this, so I'm going to wait a week or so and rename it to "Debian rebranding controversy with Mozilla". SInce that is a really crappy name, I'd also like suggestions for better ones. While it's possible to make this about Mozilla rebranding and be almost all a section on the dispute, that seems dumb. Cpu111 ( talk) 14:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand. Why don't you just flipping call it "Iceweasel (Software)" because that's exactly what it is????????? The "Debian rebranding controversy with Mozilla" is horrible and ridiculous and defeating the purpose of what a title is. WTF is wrong with you people. 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.218.31.5 ( talk) 17:30, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
The should be a page for IceWeasel and one for IceCat, they are independent and Debian's IceWeasel deserves it's own wiki page. I don't know why is IceCat considered more important than IceWeasel, please explain well the differences between them. 鈥擯receding unsigned comment added by 189.141.228.127 ( talk) 02:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Does the Firefox EULA debate really belong here? It's only remotely related to rebranding. Rebranding would have been a way for Ubuntu to avoid the EULA, but Ubuntu decided against a browser-that-dare-not-speak-its-name, and Mozilla eventually retracted the EULA. So the issue is settled, and this section is just confusing. 鈥擯receding unsigned comment added by 87.162.27.35 ( talk) 23:16, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
There is a reference in the lead to Re: mozilla thunderbird trademark restrictions / still dfsg free聽?, which suggests that the need to rebrand didn't appear in 2006, but in 2004. Currently the article doesn't present that information well. I wonder how Thunderbird could have stayed improperly branded despite that request for 20 months. I asked on pkg-mozilla-maintainers whether Mozilla changed its mind between 2004 and 2006 but got no answer yet. -- Chealer ( talk) 20:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Mozilla changed its mind between 2004 and 2006. Initially, in 2004, a deal was struck to use the trademarked name while continuing to follow Debian's patching policies -- that permission was revoked by the Mozilla Foundation in 2006, apparently due to a change in management. You can follow the whole gory story over at the debian-legal archive.
67.241.18.83 (
talk) 02:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Matt Groening was the one who came up with the phrase ice weasel for " Love is Hell" back in the 1980's: "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come". AnonMoos ( talk) 23:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I was a big fan of Life in Hell and the word may have slipped into my brain subconsciously when I coined Iceweasel. I certainly wasn't thinking of it consciously. -- Nathanael Nerode 67.241.26.195 ( talk) 06:08, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
I note that Miles Bader seems to have responded to my suggestion in 2004 with an "Ooh, I like that name" message -- and his .signature line contains the Matt Groening quote about ice weasels. Attributed to Nietsche.... Anyway, there you see some evidence that that line influenced the popularity of the name! -- still Nathanael Nerode 67.241.26.195 ( talk) 06:12, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
I just read the article. Still don't understand why Debian can't (won't/isn't allowed) to use Firefox.
Could someone explain (either here, or directly in the article) the logic chain that lead to Iceweasel in concise, non-tech, non-lawyer english?
Thanks, 213.66.219.48 ( talk) 12:01, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
somebody should really explain what differences these products from the original Mozilla products are. I know that the Debian projects doesn't include the APNG patches. As well the license. what else is missing or more integrated? mabdul 17:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
[...]鈥淚ceweasel鈥 was subsequently used as the example name for a rebranded Firefox in the Mozilla Trademark Policy, [...]
The article cites the current version of the policy. However the reference to Iceweasel only occurs in prior versions of the policy up to six years ago [11]. -- Kakurady ( talk) 02:17, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
I recall that at the time, Mozilla originally allowed "community versions" of Firefox to be called "Firefox". They then tightened the policy, and I recall that this was because people were distributing Windows binaries called "Firefox" that complied with the rules but contained adware and/or spyware, and they tightened up to deal with this, and Debian's use got caught up in it. Memory is bunk, of course, so I wouldn't trust mine without a source or two. Does anyone else recall events anything like this, or even have any quality of source to this effect? - David Gerard ( talk) 16:02, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
The first sentence in this encyclopedic article about Mozilla Corporation software rebranded by the Debian project is not too well written as it is right now. -- 95.34.150.242 ( talk) 23:58, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
As discussed already in the talk end 2006 (Debian NOT simply rebranding) the conflict started NOT with Mozilla enforcing brand rights. The "brand right card" was the response of Mozilla on the claim of Debian on having the last word on the user experience of a application. Mozilla was asking for a development model where Debian would push updates/patches upstream to Mozilla instead of maintaining own "mini"-forks (distro patches). This was a conflict how the development process of (Mozilla) applications should be organized, and where both participants were insisting, that their way was the right way. Therefore, without a compromise, this was ending in a clash and fork. Shaddim ( talk) 16:25, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Isn't one of the most significant differences that the Iceweasel fork removes DRM (EME)? Mozilla has caved in to the DRM lobby - on (IMHO) dubious grounds - and now ships Mozilla (38) with DRM support built in. Iceweasel removes this features (EME, sandbox) as I understand it. Unfortunately I've been unable to ixquick a definitive statement to this affect. I believe this is correct modulo some semantic details (the DRM isn't precisely pre-installed, but the software to automatically install it is). 185.55.60.122 ( talk) 10:32, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/iceweasel <--Repos are now (2016-06-10) pushing out a dummy package that has firefox-esr as a dependency. 75.88.64.152 ( talk) 16:11, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mozilla software rebranded by Debian. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.鈥 InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:19, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
is here FYI. -- Yae4 ( talk) 18:33, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Debian鈥揗ozilla trademark dispute article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24.59.103.38 03:37, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I quote from Facts about Debian and Mozilla庐 Firefox庐
Update: Debian is going to replace Firefox庐 with a GNU fork called Iceweasel Half-true. For the etch release, Iceweasel will only be Firefox庐 with a different branding. We are taking the Iceweasel name because it was already know as a possible alternative name for Firefox庐 when the trademark concerns have been raised more than 2 years ago (thanks Nathanael Nerode for this nice name, by the way). It appears that the GNU guys decided to start a fork with this name鈥 that鈥檚 quite unfortunate, actually. Anyways, the plan is to get in touch with them to see what we can do together, but with the etch release approaching, we can鈥檛 and won鈥檛 do more than a rename for the moment.
The article doesn't reflect the fact that Debian's Iceweasel won't be the same as GNU's Iceweasel (in short term at least). Shoudn't this be explained? Chali2 06:40, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
How about an article about that as well?
There's an early (1985, maybe?) Matt Groening cartoon, I believe from "Love is Hell," that has the punchline, "At night, the ice weasels come."
Good question! There is a "real" (cute) animal in a "real" picture at http://iceweasel.com/, but there is no reason to think that it is really called an iceweasel -- can't find any google evidence of such. 69.87.193.234 00:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Iceweasel's great in concept; however, there's little detail anywhere on what exactly in Firefox didn't meet GNU standards of Free-dom, and what same will be replaced with. The best I can find is a tenuous link to Plugger, which depends on mplayer, which basically depends on legally grey use of win32 binaries where available; AFAIK, Moz Foundation Firefox ships with no major multimedia plugins at all. This should be clarified, as it will be the big "visible" difference between official Mozilla Foundation releases and the patchset/"psuedo-fork" GNU will maintain for the convenience of third-parties deriving. -- 155.212.34.122 15:52, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, obviously. However, [2] states "While the source code from the Mozilla project is free software, the binaries that they release include additional non-free software. Also, they distribute non-free software as plug-ins." without providing concrete examples. It'd be one thing if GNU Iceweasel were simply a branding for 'customized' distributions -- but does this just mean the logo image files and trademark text are "software," or, as the gripe about binaries and plugins suggests, is any major functionality changing due to license issues? (They're adding a few features, obviously; what I'm asking is *what* actually ships in the binaries to inform the above statement, and this out of sheer curiosity.)-- 155.212.34.122 20:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification! -- 69.0.51.153 02:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC) (the O.P., from home)
The only two problems that the FSF has with Firefox is the use of the non-free Talkback crash reporting tool and the use of a "plugin finder service" that recommends non-free plugins. Please also note that Talkback is being replaced by Airbag as soon as the project is ready (very soon, hopefully). The FSF has no issues with Mozilla protecting its trademark. Please do not confuse Debian with the FSF. Debian has the trademark problems, while the FSF thinks Mozilla is using its trademark just fine. ReedLoden 05:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
To be more specific, Debian is also just fine with Mozilla using its trademarks this way -- but Debian's technical requirements don't allow for the prior approval process required by Mozilla (you can probably find the references to this in the bug reports and in debian-legal archives). So this means that Debian can't use the trademarks, so it has to use a rebranded version. 24.59.103.51
Is there any further discussion to resolve this between Debian and Mozilla? - it seems to me like things are hinging on a very small technical issue - is there any reference for Mozilla's side of this, for NPOV? Widefox 01:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm running Firefox, so was concerned about the claim here of privacy holes in my browser....
CONCLUSION = yes improvement, but not in itself as important as setting your options correctly. Widefox 00:43, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I changed the start of the article, to avoid giving readers the mis-impression that the Debian versions of Firefox are merely rebranded versions of it. Someone changed it back. I'm not going to fight this edit war -- if someone insists on the article being wrong, you all will have to deal with it. The point is, Debian has always insisted on their right to make code changes, without getting permission from Mozilla. This is one of the core reasons for conflict, for the very existence of "IceWeasel"! And Debian is more committed to long-term maintenance of their older versions than Moz is. 69.87.200.131 14:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks -- looks good! Now if someone could track down the details of what patches Debian has actually applied in the various versions, and create a section parallel to "Gnuzilla IceWeasel features"... 69.87.193.151 13:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Who cares? I'm a debian user and this whole iceweasel/icedove thing is a MASSIVE waste of time. I'd think developers would be more interested in filling gaps like how bout a half decent non-linear video editor or I don't know, a good way to standardize X configurations to be used from the gui rather than like we all do it, by hand in the configs. What I'm saying is I can think of at least 1 hundred ways where debian, linux or people in general would benefit better by spending time elsewhere. You don't just fork the code whenever you feel like it because the original developers still want to stay in the loop of their own work. Sure you can and you should be able to, but this is a case of being overly excessive and dramatic about nothing. Positively 100% sure, Iceweasel goes away. This will happen when Firefox continues and the Iceweasel maintainers get bored and see what it is they are really wasting their time on. 鈥擳he preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.3.247.49 ( talk 鈥 contribs). 鈥 ptk鉁 fgs 00:40, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, yes. We all love the humper icon. But there are two official sources of information about browsers called Icweasel: gnu.org and debian.org. The site using the humper icon, geticeweasel.org is not registered to either: see whois info. Yes, the plain globe is boring. It's good to know that the Ubuntu folks are drawing icons, but until they start actually shipping something besides icons, let's stick with the image that's actually being used by the major distributor of this browser.
Besides, ChrisBaird is right. It doesn't even look like a weasel! 鈥 ptk鉁 fgs 13:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
the following section was added recently by an anon and i have removed it again
Other projects that have followed Debian's lead
Gentoo Linux also heavily patches the source code for its distribution, although due to the nature of Gentoo, this is done by the end-user rather than the distribution. However, part of the Gentoo contract is that a user must, if he/she wants, be able to choose to build a system from scratch using entirely free software. Therefore, Gentoo decided to follow Debian's lead and made its default version of Firefox browser unbranded and without the non-free artwork. The Gentoo maintainer decided to name the application "Bon Echo" reflecting the non-trademarked version name of Firefox 2.0. However, the end user can set a use flag, if she/he wants to go ahead and use the non-free artwork anyway.
can some gentoo user comment on if gentoo has really followed debians lead or if they have always used the unbranded build options and the version name by default?
P.S. sorry this post took so long after i deleted the text from the main page, the database was locked just after i made that edit and i got distracted by other things. Plugwash 21:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
It might be worth noting that Gentoo has changed back to shipping a Firefox branded package as the default for those building from source. You can choose to build with a settings that result in a binary that can be redistributed, and Gentoo also offers the option of a precompiled package with the Bon Echo branding. The legal stance is that Gentoo is not in the business of shipping modified binaries, and the license makes no reference to shipping instructions on how to modify the source code. -- 213.79.38.74 14:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Rename. Debian's Iceweasel has a lowercase 'w', like Firefox has a lowercase 'f' for fox. I propose that this article be renamed to use the name Iceweasel, for Debian's usage. Though I acknowledge GNU's IceWeasel does have the capital W, the phrase was coined in 2004 as Iceweasel by Dorland on debian-devel and debian-legal, and it is a more apropos analog to the Firefox name. pbryan 01:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
the earliest reference i know of for the iceape name is the "facts about" blog post, i thought icedove was mentioned there too but either it wasnt or someone removed it (it is mentioned in the comments there though which suggests the removal hypothosis). Plugwash 12:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
What user agent string does Iceweasel use? Is it the same as Firefox? I think the article should mention that. Danny 23:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[...] Debian backports any required security fixes to whatever versions of software are shipped in their stable releases until support for those stable releases are dropped; the Iceweasel rename represents no change in this regard. [...]
So stable should be the latest Debian Etch security advisory? (currently: [7]) and no preview release?
What do you think about it?
84.50.241.254 17:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't want to add this to the article, as I don't know much more than I am about to say, and am not sure if it is notable, hopefully someone with more knowledge of the subject can decide this. From what I understand, Debian stable (Etch), has changed versions of Iceweasel, from 2.0.0.5, to 2.0.0.6, and maybe it was changed before that. The reason I feel this is of interest, is because that is not normal Debian policy for stable, normally in stable packages never receive a version number upgrade, only security updates. In this case i think the exception was made because it was security issues that meant it would be a good idea to actually change version. Although this page seems more about the naming conflict, i couldn't find another page solely for iceweasel (debian), so thought if this should go anywhere, here it must be. Champion sound remix 03:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
s far as I recall, the Mozilla Corporation requires that the Firefox trademark only be used on unmodified software (ie distributed as it comes from the Mozilla Corporation). Debian is 'violates' this in that the stable version of Firefox is not to be updated to a newer release to fix security issues. Instead, security patches are backported to the old version, thus modifying what the Mozilla Corporation initially distributed and making the use of the Firefox Trademark impossible. Somebody would have to look up the whole picture, but I believe the Debian stable policy did play a role in the rename of Firefox. 鈥擯receding unsigned comment added by 12.4.195.228 ( talk) 21:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Small note about verb tenses: "Mozilla Corporation software rebranded in Debian" sounds like the content will be a list. Using a present tense would be more appropriate. The interesting topic isn't the software, is the reasons, background, and reactions to the rebranding. -- Gronky 23:25, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
In the last paragraph of the "Origins of the issue and of the Iceweasel name" section:
This sentence needs a date, and an explanation of how they "adopted the Firefox name". The next sentence says they stayed with the Iceweasel name (for logo issues) - so did they really adopt it? If so, did they adopt it for just a very short time?
A very confusing line needing explanation. Thanks. -- Gronky 14:24, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Not sure how to write this for the article, but what happened was that Debian asked the Mozilla Foundation for permission to use the Firefox name even though they were making alterations (for security patches and for the logos). They *got* that permission, but some months later the permission was *revoked*. 67.241.18.83 ( talk) 02:56, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Maybe some discussion of how the mozilla foundation has really turned into a joke. As the code has gotten better and more usable, more the foundation has been a disapointment. Instead as serving as an important bullwark of the open source community, its now a useless IPO startup trying to make millions from somekind of wacky webmail scam. what the fuck is going on? 鈥擯receding unsigned comment added by 69.17.4.153 ( talk) 01:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposel to merge
Iceape,
Iceowl and
Icedove with this article,
Mozilla software rebranding was approved.
--
Yellowdesk (
talk) 19:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I originally proposed this at Talk:Gnuzilla#Merge, but for IceApe and IceDove this is the more appropriate place. Both arre very short articles, and the only interesting characteristic of both of them is the split from the official builds. These should all be merged into here for now and split again if and when they're fleshed out a bit. Chris Cunningham ( talk) 18:22, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Mozilla software rebranding? 鈥 Omegatron 23:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal to merge with
Firefox was there should not be a merger.
--
Yellowdesk (
talk) 19:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
We shouldn't merge Iceweasel with Firefox, that would violate trademark issues.
I think just wait and see what happens between Debian and Mozilla first. Once they come to a settlement, Wikipedia can decide what makes the most sense. SavantEdge 21:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
User:exobyte:exobyte 1 October 2006
Until a software product actually appears that is named "Iceweasel", this topic is not worthy of a page on its own and should be merged. If one ever does (and I doubt that it will from such a dorky suggestion, but that's beside the point) then this section can be reinstated as a page. 鈥 Hex (鉂?!鉂) 16:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
This article is about the dispute with Debian over naming. It has nothing to do with the general case of rebranding Mozilla software which is the program at http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/about/partnerships.html . I know this article was renamed once before to this, so I'm going to wait a week or so and rename it to "Debian rebranding controversy with Mozilla". SInce that is a really crappy name, I'd also like suggestions for better ones. While it's possible to make this about Mozilla rebranding and be almost all a section on the dispute, that seems dumb. Cpu111 ( talk) 14:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand. Why don't you just flipping call it "Iceweasel (Software)" because that's exactly what it is????????? The "Debian rebranding controversy with Mozilla" is horrible and ridiculous and defeating the purpose of what a title is. WTF is wrong with you people. 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.218.31.5 ( talk) 17:30, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
The should be a page for IceWeasel and one for IceCat, they are independent and Debian's IceWeasel deserves it's own wiki page. I don't know why is IceCat considered more important than IceWeasel, please explain well the differences between them. 鈥擯receding unsigned comment added by 189.141.228.127 ( talk) 02:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Does the Firefox EULA debate really belong here? It's only remotely related to rebranding. Rebranding would have been a way for Ubuntu to avoid the EULA, but Ubuntu decided against a browser-that-dare-not-speak-its-name, and Mozilla eventually retracted the EULA. So the issue is settled, and this section is just confusing. 鈥擯receding unsigned comment added by 87.162.27.35 ( talk) 23:16, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
There is a reference in the lead to Re: mozilla thunderbird trademark restrictions / still dfsg free聽?, which suggests that the need to rebrand didn't appear in 2006, but in 2004. Currently the article doesn't present that information well. I wonder how Thunderbird could have stayed improperly branded despite that request for 20 months. I asked on pkg-mozilla-maintainers whether Mozilla changed its mind between 2004 and 2006 but got no answer yet. -- Chealer ( talk) 20:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Mozilla changed its mind between 2004 and 2006. Initially, in 2004, a deal was struck to use the trademarked name while continuing to follow Debian's patching policies -- that permission was revoked by the Mozilla Foundation in 2006, apparently due to a change in management. You can follow the whole gory story over at the debian-legal archive.
67.241.18.83 (
talk) 02:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Matt Groening was the one who came up with the phrase ice weasel for " Love is Hell" back in the 1980's: "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come". AnonMoos ( talk) 23:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I was a big fan of Life in Hell and the word may have slipped into my brain subconsciously when I coined Iceweasel. I certainly wasn't thinking of it consciously. -- Nathanael Nerode 67.241.26.195 ( talk) 06:08, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
I note that Miles Bader seems to have responded to my suggestion in 2004 with an "Ooh, I like that name" message -- and his .signature line contains the Matt Groening quote about ice weasels. Attributed to Nietsche.... Anyway, there you see some evidence that that line influenced the popularity of the name! -- still Nathanael Nerode 67.241.26.195 ( talk) 06:12, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
I just read the article. Still don't understand why Debian can't (won't/isn't allowed) to use Firefox.
Could someone explain (either here, or directly in the article) the logic chain that lead to Iceweasel in concise, non-tech, non-lawyer english?
Thanks, 213.66.219.48 ( talk) 12:01, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
somebody should really explain what differences these products from the original Mozilla products are. I know that the Debian projects doesn't include the APNG patches. As well the license. what else is missing or more integrated? mabdul 17:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
[...]鈥淚ceweasel鈥 was subsequently used as the example name for a rebranded Firefox in the Mozilla Trademark Policy, [...]
The article cites the current version of the policy. However the reference to Iceweasel only occurs in prior versions of the policy up to six years ago [11]. -- Kakurady ( talk) 02:17, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
I recall that at the time, Mozilla originally allowed "community versions" of Firefox to be called "Firefox". They then tightened the policy, and I recall that this was because people were distributing Windows binaries called "Firefox" that complied with the rules but contained adware and/or spyware, and they tightened up to deal with this, and Debian's use got caught up in it. Memory is bunk, of course, so I wouldn't trust mine without a source or two. Does anyone else recall events anything like this, or even have any quality of source to this effect? - David Gerard ( talk) 16:02, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
The first sentence in this encyclopedic article about Mozilla Corporation software rebranded by the Debian project is not too well written as it is right now. -- 95.34.150.242 ( talk) 23:58, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
As discussed already in the talk end 2006 (Debian NOT simply rebranding) the conflict started NOT with Mozilla enforcing brand rights. The "brand right card" was the response of Mozilla on the claim of Debian on having the last word on the user experience of a application. Mozilla was asking for a development model where Debian would push updates/patches upstream to Mozilla instead of maintaining own "mini"-forks (distro patches). This was a conflict how the development process of (Mozilla) applications should be organized, and where both participants were insisting, that their way was the right way. Therefore, without a compromise, this was ending in a clash and fork. Shaddim ( talk) 16:25, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Isn't one of the most significant differences that the Iceweasel fork removes DRM (EME)? Mozilla has caved in to the DRM lobby - on (IMHO) dubious grounds - and now ships Mozilla (38) with DRM support built in. Iceweasel removes this features (EME, sandbox) as I understand it. Unfortunately I've been unable to ixquick a definitive statement to this affect. I believe this is correct modulo some semantic details (the DRM isn't precisely pre-installed, but the software to automatically install it is). 185.55.60.122 ( talk) 10:32, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/iceweasel <--Repos are now (2016-06-10) pushing out a dummy package that has firefox-esr as a dependency. 75.88.64.152 ( talk) 16:11, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mozilla software rebranded by Debian. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.鈥 InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:19, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
is here FYI. -- Yae4 ( talk) 18:33, 13 June 2023 (UTC)