This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index
|
||
Earlier I asked if anyone was aware of book reviews of Reardon's books. Well, I've just done a quick search in Google books where four of his books appeared, and in Google for the fifth book. I'm afraid that I've opened a can of worms; I didn't want to introduce another source of controversy but it seems unavoidable.
This article is about Reardon, which means it's about his work. His books are part of his work so it seems appropriate to say something about them in this article - and we do say a little about some of them. (I know nothing about his books; is there any dispute that they are a sufficiently large part of his work that they deserve mention?)
I thought (and I suppose still think) that book reviews are the natural way to summarize what is in the books. I don't want to read them myself and try to summarize them (and it would be very hard to avoid OR if I did so) so I hoped that a book review would be a source of about a paragraph-long summary of each book.
The can of worms is that from a cursory glance of the reviews all of them appear in pro-life publications. I'm not worried about NPOV: "The policy requires that where multiple or conflicting perspectives exist within a topic each should be presented fairly." The topic at hand is his books and there don't appear to be multiple or conflicting perspectives about that topic apparently because opponents have chosen to ignore the books. If the topic were abortion in general then certainly there would be multiple perspectives to balance, but we're not here to write about abortion, only about Reardon and his work and I don't see conflicting perspectives so NPOV is not a problem.
The problem might be RS. Are other editors going to complain that the sources of these book reviews are not reliable? My goal is simply to get a short but accurate summary of what is in each book. I don't care what that summary says, only that it fairly represents what is in the book itself. If I go to the trouble to read through the book reviews and write one paragraph about each book, will other editors complain that I don't have a reliable source for the book summary? That may be hard to answer a priori but I would like to get some sense of whether I would be wasting my time to go ahead. Will you trust me to honestly try to write an accurate summary of what is in each book? And it shouldn't really matter whether you trust me; will you accept that the sources are sufficiently reliable as to result in a fair summary of each book?
Maybe I'll just go ahead with one of the books and take a stab and see what you think. Sbowers3 ( talk) 01:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to reorganize the article:
I have a very rough draft of the reorg at /Reorg. The words are 99% the same as today's article, just rearranged. Sbowers3 ( talk) 20:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I added Reardon's BMJ and CMAJ responses to the respective sections.
Overall, I think the reorganized article is much better. Thanks Sbowers for all the work you've done on it.-- Strider12 ( talk) 20:58, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
This may seem a strange request from someone who made a major reorg, but I'd like ask editors to make small edits. If you're modifying several sections or several paragraphs, it would help if you made them in separate edits instead of all in one big edit. Alternatively (and this is what I did), propose your edit here or on a subpage, before inserting into the article. The reason for my request is to make it easier to see exactly what has changed, and to make it possible to revert part of an edit instead of the whole thing. We all know that some edits are going to be controversial but often parts of a large edit are not controversial. We shouldn't have to lose the good parts when reverting the not-so-good parts. Sbowers3 ( talk) 16:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
Maybe an internal link to the Silent No More Awareness Campaign, a group with similar views to Elliot Institute, but filled with members who have had the first-hand experience of abortion. Ste11aeres ( talk) 02:29, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
I have expanded and trimmed this section. Because Reardon has 25 cites in PubMed I thought there should be more than two of his papers in his section. To decide which ones were more notable, I counted how many times each paper was cited elsewhere in PubMed. It turned out that the two most cited papers were already in our article. I added the next most cited article and I added his earliest paper, notable only for being his first paper.
I trimmed the summaries to just a few sentences, for the most part taken from the abstracts. I didn't want to get into a lot of details or a long back and forth. Abstracts should be a fair summary of what the author thinks most important, helps to avoid cherry-picking, and retains verifiability for readers who might not have access to the full papers. Sbowers3 ( talk) 15:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
"Pro-life" and "pro-choice" are propaganda terms rather than neutral descriptives. Terms such as "anti-abortion" and "abortion rights" are more neutral. Is there a page for a global discussion on use of these terms? Granted these are the terms preferred by the respective movements, but they also make more or less false claims. In such a case more neutral terms would be better. Burressd ( talk) 00:19, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
"Abortion rights" is a propaganda term as well. The terms "anti-abortion" and "pro-abortion" are more factual and neutral. Ste11aeres ( talk) 02:32, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
"Pro-abortion" is only "factual and neutral" if you're describing a movement with its goal that everyone who is pregnant must have abortions. Nice try though. [[User:Sapphireblue|Sapphireblue] ( talk) 20:28, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
I wrote the following before the current reversion. My concerns with this piece have been addressed. Evidently those more wiki-skilled than I know how to manage puffery. "Mr. Reardon's views and research are maverick science, not part of the scientific consensus (as is documented in some of the included references). Unfortunately, a naive reader of this article would get the opposite impression. Given the political intensity of Mr. Reardon's supporters, Wikipedia operating procedures make it very hard to correct that error. A true encyclopedia ought to do better." Burressd ( talk) 23:06, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on David Reardon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:00, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
It seems odd to have a biography that doesn't cite a year of birth. However I could not find a source for Reardon's birth date. Does anyone know of one? Burressd ( talk) 18:43, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
This edit by Elizium23 is both factually incorrect and tendentious. The links in question do not belong to "pro-abortion" websites or organizations, and the use of the term "pro-abortion" is unencylopedic and partisan. These organizations support the right to abortion, but are not "pro-abortion" nor is it appropriate to describe them as such in a neutral encyclopedia. Reputable sources generally use factual terminology such as "abortion-rights supporters" and "abortion-rights opponents" to describe the two sides of this issue. Elizium has already reverted twice, and I'm not interested in edit-warring, but I'm also not OK with inappropriately partisan, unencyclopedic terminology. MastCell Talk 05:36, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index
|
||
Earlier I asked if anyone was aware of book reviews of Reardon's books. Well, I've just done a quick search in Google books where four of his books appeared, and in Google for the fifth book. I'm afraid that I've opened a can of worms; I didn't want to introduce another source of controversy but it seems unavoidable.
This article is about Reardon, which means it's about his work. His books are part of his work so it seems appropriate to say something about them in this article - and we do say a little about some of them. (I know nothing about his books; is there any dispute that they are a sufficiently large part of his work that they deserve mention?)
I thought (and I suppose still think) that book reviews are the natural way to summarize what is in the books. I don't want to read them myself and try to summarize them (and it would be very hard to avoid OR if I did so) so I hoped that a book review would be a source of about a paragraph-long summary of each book.
The can of worms is that from a cursory glance of the reviews all of them appear in pro-life publications. I'm not worried about NPOV: "The policy requires that where multiple or conflicting perspectives exist within a topic each should be presented fairly." The topic at hand is his books and there don't appear to be multiple or conflicting perspectives about that topic apparently because opponents have chosen to ignore the books. If the topic were abortion in general then certainly there would be multiple perspectives to balance, but we're not here to write about abortion, only about Reardon and his work and I don't see conflicting perspectives so NPOV is not a problem.
The problem might be RS. Are other editors going to complain that the sources of these book reviews are not reliable? My goal is simply to get a short but accurate summary of what is in each book. I don't care what that summary says, only that it fairly represents what is in the book itself. If I go to the trouble to read through the book reviews and write one paragraph about each book, will other editors complain that I don't have a reliable source for the book summary? That may be hard to answer a priori but I would like to get some sense of whether I would be wasting my time to go ahead. Will you trust me to honestly try to write an accurate summary of what is in each book? And it shouldn't really matter whether you trust me; will you accept that the sources are sufficiently reliable as to result in a fair summary of each book?
Maybe I'll just go ahead with one of the books and take a stab and see what you think. Sbowers3 ( talk) 01:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to reorganize the article:
I have a very rough draft of the reorg at /Reorg. The words are 99% the same as today's article, just rearranged. Sbowers3 ( talk) 20:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I added Reardon's BMJ and CMAJ responses to the respective sections.
Overall, I think the reorganized article is much better. Thanks Sbowers for all the work you've done on it.-- Strider12 ( talk) 20:58, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
This may seem a strange request from someone who made a major reorg, but I'd like ask editors to make small edits. If you're modifying several sections or several paragraphs, it would help if you made them in separate edits instead of all in one big edit. Alternatively (and this is what I did), propose your edit here or on a subpage, before inserting into the article. The reason for my request is to make it easier to see exactly what has changed, and to make it possible to revert part of an edit instead of the whole thing. We all know that some edits are going to be controversial but often parts of a large edit are not controversial. We shouldn't have to lose the good parts when reverting the not-so-good parts. Sbowers3 ( talk) 16:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
Maybe an internal link to the Silent No More Awareness Campaign, a group with similar views to Elliot Institute, but filled with members who have had the first-hand experience of abortion. Ste11aeres ( talk) 02:29, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
I have expanded and trimmed this section. Because Reardon has 25 cites in PubMed I thought there should be more than two of his papers in his section. To decide which ones were more notable, I counted how many times each paper was cited elsewhere in PubMed. It turned out that the two most cited papers were already in our article. I added the next most cited article and I added his earliest paper, notable only for being his first paper.
I trimmed the summaries to just a few sentences, for the most part taken from the abstracts. I didn't want to get into a lot of details or a long back and forth. Abstracts should be a fair summary of what the author thinks most important, helps to avoid cherry-picking, and retains verifiability for readers who might not have access to the full papers. Sbowers3 ( talk) 15:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
"Pro-life" and "pro-choice" are propaganda terms rather than neutral descriptives. Terms such as "anti-abortion" and "abortion rights" are more neutral. Is there a page for a global discussion on use of these terms? Granted these are the terms preferred by the respective movements, but they also make more or less false claims. In such a case more neutral terms would be better. Burressd ( talk) 00:19, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
"Abortion rights" is a propaganda term as well. The terms "anti-abortion" and "pro-abortion" are more factual and neutral. Ste11aeres ( talk) 02:32, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
"Pro-abortion" is only "factual and neutral" if you're describing a movement with its goal that everyone who is pregnant must have abortions. Nice try though. [[User:Sapphireblue|Sapphireblue] ( talk) 20:28, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
I wrote the following before the current reversion. My concerns with this piece have been addressed. Evidently those more wiki-skilled than I know how to manage puffery. "Mr. Reardon's views and research are maverick science, not part of the scientific consensus (as is documented in some of the included references). Unfortunately, a naive reader of this article would get the opposite impression. Given the political intensity of Mr. Reardon's supporters, Wikipedia operating procedures make it very hard to correct that error. A true encyclopedia ought to do better." Burressd ( talk) 23:06, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on David Reardon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:00, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
It seems odd to have a biography that doesn't cite a year of birth. However I could not find a source for Reardon's birth date. Does anyone know of one? Burressd ( talk) 18:43, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
This edit by Elizium23 is both factually incorrect and tendentious. The links in question do not belong to "pro-abortion" websites or organizations, and the use of the term "pro-abortion" is unencylopedic and partisan. These organizations support the right to abortion, but are not "pro-abortion" nor is it appropriate to describe them as such in a neutral encyclopedia. Reputable sources generally use factual terminology such as "abortion-rights supporters" and "abortion-rights opponents" to describe the two sides of this issue. Elizium has already reverted twice, and I'm not interested in edit-warring, but I'm also not OK with inappropriately partisan, unencyclopedic terminology. MastCell Talk 05:36, 25 September 2020 (UTC)