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One of the things I dislike of the plain claim that antidepressants cause suicide, a claim very common in
Citizens Commission on Human Rights, is that it’s a jump. The right way to formulate the claim is something like this: “It has been proven that a number of people on antidepressants, and even more on
neuroleptics, suffer from
akathisia: a state of extreme inner anxiety. As a result, in some cases such psychiatric drugs may be
iatrogenic. Some of the people with a previous mental history may commit suicide in order to escape the torment of akathisia”. —
Cesar Tort
00:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Claiming that sufferers commit suicide as an escape from akathisia is actually the leap in logic. The reality is that medical experts including the drug companies and the prescribing doctors will admit that they don't understand why or how exactly the drugs work. They will say things like, "it is thought that..., and evidence suggests that..." Speaking from personal experience, these drugs do cause suicidal ideation, full stop. It is if the drug is specifically designed to plant that thought in your head. It is a scary feeling to say the least. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
75.71.188.35 (
talk)
01:19, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
I know that a lot of material in this article is real because I am active in it's area of study. Many will wonder where it all comes from though. There are a few references, but the article needs much more especially on this subject with suicide being discussed, there MUST be clear citations and references. DJ Barney 13:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
This reads like an essay. It appears to be one sided and seeks to sway the readers opinion. It needs work. Essay tag was added as was POV tag. This style creates bias.-- scuro ( talk) 23:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
This article needs more sources, especially as it's WP:BLP and also deals with with a controversial issue. Autarch ( talk) 13:59, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
There are a lot of statements of opinion presented as facts in this article. But I suggest we defer debating these and start out with some examples where Dr. Healy makes assertions that are clearly contradicted by primary sources.
"In his book Pharmageddon, Healy says that a sleeping pill called thalidomide caused a drug disaster in 1962 which involved limbless and handicapped babies being born to distraught mothers. The United States Congress wanted to prevent a recurrence of such a tragedy, and sought to limit the marketing excesses of the pharmaceutical industry. So new drug development was rewarded with product rather than process patents, and new drugs were made available only through prescription"
Prescriptions for new drugs were required by the Durham-Humphrey Amendment of 1951, 11 years before the thalidomide incident. http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/WhatWeDo/History/Milestones/ucm128305.htm
Product patents were allowed on U.S. pharmaceuticals since the 1800's, not beginning in 1962 as stated by Dr. Healy. For example, here is a product patent from Merck that was granted in 1950. http://www.google.com/patents/US2494524
Lets address these first. I will then contend that if Healy's book is in error on basic issues of fact, his opinion on more complex issues needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Best wishes 98.155.21.76 ( talk) 07:17, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
Please see the section above regarding the incorrect description of legislation passed in the aftermath of the thalidomide tragedy in the "History of Pharmacology" section.
I dont' have a copy of Healy's Pharmageddon book, but I googled "David Healy thalidomide" and ran across his description of the 1962 U.S. legislation in his book "antidepressant era". It seems that he understands the legislation we were discussing quite well, and that he was misquoted by some previous editor who wrote the Wikipedia article. I suggest that we could best deal with the specific issue we discussed by deleting the paragraph, which seems to misrepresent both history and Healy's views. http://books.google.com/books?id=6lpHd_P4VOsC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=david+healy+thalidomide&source=bl&ots=83OVPiZfHR&sig=7QxL0yjUYxb5uyVpI6Q3_Vd4VUY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wQnOUojuBYjyoATtvIDIDQ&ved=0CGsQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=david%20healy%20thalidomide&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Formerly 98 ( talk • contribs) 14:05, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
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He has also said that pharmaceutical companies sell drugs by marketing diseases...
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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|
One of the things I dislike of the plain claim that antidepressants cause suicide, a claim very common in
Citizens Commission on Human Rights, is that it’s a jump. The right way to formulate the claim is something like this: “It has been proven that a number of people on antidepressants, and even more on
neuroleptics, suffer from
akathisia: a state of extreme inner anxiety. As a result, in some cases such psychiatric drugs may be
iatrogenic. Some of the people with a previous mental history may commit suicide in order to escape the torment of akathisia”. —
Cesar Tort
00:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Claiming that sufferers commit suicide as an escape from akathisia is actually the leap in logic. The reality is that medical experts including the drug companies and the prescribing doctors will admit that they don't understand why or how exactly the drugs work. They will say things like, "it is thought that..., and evidence suggests that..." Speaking from personal experience, these drugs do cause suicidal ideation, full stop. It is if the drug is specifically designed to plant that thought in your head. It is a scary feeling to say the least. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
75.71.188.35 (
talk)
01:19, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
I know that a lot of material in this article is real because I am active in it's area of study. Many will wonder where it all comes from though. There are a few references, but the article needs much more especially on this subject with suicide being discussed, there MUST be clear citations and references. DJ Barney 13:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
This reads like an essay. It appears to be one sided and seeks to sway the readers opinion. It needs work. Essay tag was added as was POV tag. This style creates bias.-- scuro ( talk) 23:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
This article needs more sources, especially as it's WP:BLP and also deals with with a controversial issue. Autarch ( talk) 13:59, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
There are a lot of statements of opinion presented as facts in this article. But I suggest we defer debating these and start out with some examples where Dr. Healy makes assertions that are clearly contradicted by primary sources.
"In his book Pharmageddon, Healy says that a sleeping pill called thalidomide caused a drug disaster in 1962 which involved limbless and handicapped babies being born to distraught mothers. The United States Congress wanted to prevent a recurrence of such a tragedy, and sought to limit the marketing excesses of the pharmaceutical industry. So new drug development was rewarded with product rather than process patents, and new drugs were made available only through prescription"
Prescriptions for new drugs were required by the Durham-Humphrey Amendment of 1951, 11 years before the thalidomide incident. http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/WhatWeDo/History/Milestones/ucm128305.htm
Product patents were allowed on U.S. pharmaceuticals since the 1800's, not beginning in 1962 as stated by Dr. Healy. For example, here is a product patent from Merck that was granted in 1950. http://www.google.com/patents/US2494524
Lets address these first. I will then contend that if Healy's book is in error on basic issues of fact, his opinion on more complex issues needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Best wishes 98.155.21.76 ( talk) 07:17, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
Please see the section above regarding the incorrect description of legislation passed in the aftermath of the thalidomide tragedy in the "History of Pharmacology" section.
I dont' have a copy of Healy's Pharmageddon book, but I googled "David Healy thalidomide" and ran across his description of the 1962 U.S. legislation in his book "antidepressant era". It seems that he understands the legislation we were discussing quite well, and that he was misquoted by some previous editor who wrote the Wikipedia article. I suggest that we could best deal with the specific issue we discussed by deleting the paragraph, which seems to misrepresent both history and Healy's views. http://books.google.com/books?id=6lpHd_P4VOsC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=david+healy+thalidomide&source=bl&ots=83OVPiZfHR&sig=7QxL0yjUYxb5uyVpI6Q3_Vd4VUY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wQnOUojuBYjyoATtvIDIDQ&ved=0CGsQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=david%20healy%20thalidomide&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Formerly 98 ( talk • contribs) 14:05, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:09, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
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He has also said that pharmaceutical companies sell drugs by marketing diseases...