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Behdinan is a Kurdish language. So Zoroastrian is originates from the Kurdish language. We call it zerdeshti and our holy book is awesta. Many Kurds go by that name as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:801:4AD:7F53:546C:CF07:1DE9:CC6A ( talk) 20:57, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Dari is also commonly known by the appellation Gabri, but this name might be taken by some Zoroastrians as highly offensive, as it literally means 'language of the infidels'.
Is it taken by some Zoroastrians as highly offensive? Are we just guessing on this? john k 03:32, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Ive removed a paragraph from the Dari's dialects secton, as it was incorrect. Naini and the dialect of Abiyaneh are distinct languages, though they are all closely related. -- Maziart 08:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Excuse-me because I really don't know anything about Dari but... just because of this, it seems to me that Dari entry and Dari (Zoroastrian) look like they're talking about the same thing. If same, I guess they should be merged. If different... well, the difference should be made more evident for those (as myself) who don't see the difference Ictlogist 13:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
There is no academic consensus over the etymology of gabr. So, saying that "gabr means infidel" is wrong (that pseudo-etymology about the relation of "kāfer" and "gabr" is rejected by academic sources). Zoroastrians don't call themselves gabr, mostly because of its usage in muslim texts (not because of its etymology). I should also note that the situation is different for "gabri" and "gabrōni". Many Iranian zoroastrians use these words to refer to the language. Jahangard 19:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
About the word gabr, Iranica article is quite informative. Jahangard 02:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I dispute the specific statement that Dari is a Northwest Iranian language and not merely a local dialect of the Persian language. I can find no evidence for that statement in any academic reference. A link to another Wikipedia article which itself is unverified is not a legitimate in-text citation. That list of references is meaningless if it does not explain which material is being cited by which references. A reader cannot be expected to read the whole list of references in order to verify one sentence in the article.
Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's policy on verification.
Wikipedia:Verifiability, which is policy, says that attribution is required for "direct quotes and for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged". Any material that is challenged and for which no source is provided may be removed by any editor.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed. [1]
-- Dfitzgerald 16:17, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Ethnologue is just a collection of information from different sources. Sometimes it cites its sources, sometimes it doesn't. Credibility of those Ethnologue entries which does not cite any source is not more than the credibility of unreferenced Wikipedia pages. In this special case, claiming that there is an ethnolect, related to Zoroastrians, spoken by 700000 speakers, is just nonsense. the whole population of Zoroastrians is less than 100000. There is an ethnolect of Zoroastrians (near Yazd and Kerman) which is called Dari (also called Gabroni, Gabri), belonging to the northwestern Iranian dialects (central subgroup). It's more probable that Enthnologue has mistakenly mixed this information with something else and has come up with pure nonsense. If you insist on these claims, cite a reliable academic source (something such as "Compendium Linguarum Iranicarum", edited by Rüdiger Schmitt). Jahāngard 15:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I understand that most of the Parsis of India now speak a Gujarati dialect at home, but that this is a relatively recent(?) change. Do you have any citations on this? -- Bejnar ( talk) 22:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
@Bejnar: Any news on this Parsi-Dari thing? Did you find anything in Weber? -- Fullstop ( talk) 19:37, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
>> No redirect until some consensus is achieved. There are plenty of sources about the Iranian ancestry of the language spoken by some Parsis in India. But that is not the problem here. The problem here is whether there is one or two languages spoken by Zoroastrian remnants in Iran.
There is only one. Im not sure of a source where one would find this (since its a bit of a negative claim), but as one of two people who have conducted fieldwork on Dari in Iran, I can say that Ethnologue is in error here. I think they got the Iranian Zoroastrians confused with the Parsis in India, of whom there could easily be 350,000 (though Im not sure of the exact number). I would suggest that this page be redirected to the disambiguation page on Dari. -- Maziart ( talk) 02:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 04:34, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Dari language (Zoroastrian) →
Zoroastrian Dari language –
https://www.ethnologue.com/language/gbz --Relisted.
George Ho (
talk) 23:02, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Mjbmr (
talk)
13:53, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Zoroastrian Dari language article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Behdinan is a Kurdish language. So Zoroastrian is originates from the Kurdish language. We call it zerdeshti and our holy book is awesta. Many Kurds go by that name as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:801:4AD:7F53:546C:CF07:1DE9:CC6A ( talk) 20:57, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Dari is also commonly known by the appellation Gabri, but this name might be taken by some Zoroastrians as highly offensive, as it literally means 'language of the infidels'.
Is it taken by some Zoroastrians as highly offensive? Are we just guessing on this? john k 03:32, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Ive removed a paragraph from the Dari's dialects secton, as it was incorrect. Naini and the dialect of Abiyaneh are distinct languages, though they are all closely related. -- Maziart 08:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Excuse-me because I really don't know anything about Dari but... just because of this, it seems to me that Dari entry and Dari (Zoroastrian) look like they're talking about the same thing. If same, I guess they should be merged. If different... well, the difference should be made more evident for those (as myself) who don't see the difference Ictlogist 13:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
There is no academic consensus over the etymology of gabr. So, saying that "gabr means infidel" is wrong (that pseudo-etymology about the relation of "kāfer" and "gabr" is rejected by academic sources). Zoroastrians don't call themselves gabr, mostly because of its usage in muslim texts (not because of its etymology). I should also note that the situation is different for "gabri" and "gabrōni". Many Iranian zoroastrians use these words to refer to the language. Jahangard 19:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
About the word gabr, Iranica article is quite informative. Jahangard 02:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I dispute the specific statement that Dari is a Northwest Iranian language and not merely a local dialect of the Persian language. I can find no evidence for that statement in any academic reference. A link to another Wikipedia article which itself is unverified is not a legitimate in-text citation. That list of references is meaningless if it does not explain which material is being cited by which references. A reader cannot be expected to read the whole list of references in order to verify one sentence in the article.
Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's policy on verification.
Wikipedia:Verifiability, which is policy, says that attribution is required for "direct quotes and for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged". Any material that is challenged and for which no source is provided may be removed by any editor.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed. [1]
-- Dfitzgerald 16:17, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Ethnologue is just a collection of information from different sources. Sometimes it cites its sources, sometimes it doesn't. Credibility of those Ethnologue entries which does not cite any source is not more than the credibility of unreferenced Wikipedia pages. In this special case, claiming that there is an ethnolect, related to Zoroastrians, spoken by 700000 speakers, is just nonsense. the whole population of Zoroastrians is less than 100000. There is an ethnolect of Zoroastrians (near Yazd and Kerman) which is called Dari (also called Gabroni, Gabri), belonging to the northwestern Iranian dialects (central subgroup). It's more probable that Enthnologue has mistakenly mixed this information with something else and has come up with pure nonsense. If you insist on these claims, cite a reliable academic source (something such as "Compendium Linguarum Iranicarum", edited by Rüdiger Schmitt). Jahāngard 15:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I understand that most of the Parsis of India now speak a Gujarati dialect at home, but that this is a relatively recent(?) change. Do you have any citations on this? -- Bejnar ( talk) 22:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
@Bejnar: Any news on this Parsi-Dari thing? Did you find anything in Weber? -- Fullstop ( talk) 19:37, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
>> No redirect until some consensus is achieved. There are plenty of sources about the Iranian ancestry of the language spoken by some Parsis in India. But that is not the problem here. The problem here is whether there is one or two languages spoken by Zoroastrian remnants in Iran.
There is only one. Im not sure of a source where one would find this (since its a bit of a negative claim), but as one of two people who have conducted fieldwork on Dari in Iran, I can say that Ethnologue is in error here. I think they got the Iranian Zoroastrians confused with the Parsis in India, of whom there could easily be 350,000 (though Im not sure of the exact number). I would suggest that this page be redirected to the disambiguation page on Dari. -- Maziart ( talk) 02:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 04:34, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Dari language (Zoroastrian) →
Zoroastrian Dari language –
https://www.ethnologue.com/language/gbz --Relisted.
George Ho (
talk) 23:02, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Mjbmr (
talk)
13:53, 15 May 2015 (UTC)