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Archive 1 |
source: Rocznik Statystyczny 1981, Główny Urząd Statystyczny, Warszawa 1981, Rok XLI
1960: 9.200 inhabitants
1970: 11.300 inhabitants
1975: 12.900 inhabitants
1980: 13.400 inhabitants
cc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caius2ga ( talk • contribs) 20:33, 30 October 2003 (UTC)
was Bogislav V really a German Duke? House of Pommerania was a Slavic dynasty — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wroman ( talk • contribs) 12:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
as the article seemed to be totally based on only one German book, I added few lines presenting works of Polish histography with relevant sources provided. Wroman ( talk) 13:43, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
That's a bit POV statement and a bit nationalistic-Germany was only created in 1871. It thus can't be compared to Poland after Partitions since Poland existed before Partitions, while Germany didn't exist before 1871. Please do not push such POV in historic articles.-- Molobo ( talk) 18:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
currently the article reads " During World War II, the Red Army occupied the town." which is suggesting that it was occupied through the whole period of World War II and that is not true. Perhaps someone could establish the exact date when the Red Army concquerred the city? Wroman ( talk) 19:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I added some history and added source requests, census data should be presented for support of 'entirely German' as well as source that Germans were moved rather then fled before Red Army as was often the case.-- Molobo ( talk) 14:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
-- Molobo ( talk) 20:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The discussion is at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Towns.27_websites_as_a_source_for_history. Skäpperöd ( talk) 20:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Who is Manfred Vollack and what are his credentials. Does he name Darłowo by name ?-- Molobo ( talk) 18:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Auf Initiative des Heimatkreises Kolberg-Körlin veröffentlichte Manfred Vollack das Buch "Das Kolberger Land - Seine Städte und Dörfer - Ein pommersches Heimatbuch" - Heimat means emotions rather than facts. Xx236 ( talk) 11:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
(moved from my talk)
Why did you converted Latin names to German ones ? The text you brought as source is in Latin and has no German names ? Could you explain the reason behind it ? -- Molobo ( talk) 21:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The pope's name is a official title. Not comperable. Please provide sources of usage of the names. Also who are the Swansons ? The original source makes no use of such wording.-- Molobo ( talk) 22:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
dear user Skäpperöd - the funny thing is that previous history version of that page indicated that city rights were given by Brandenburg Margraves and now by local noble people who were vassals of Brandenburg Margraves - this is moove in good direction! Wroman ( talk) 10:39, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
The main issue is that Skäpperöd in previous version gave wrong information that city rights were given by Brandenburg Margraves. The same user claimed that city website is an unreliable source of information - is it fair? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wroman ( talk • contribs) 15:16, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
The question arose, how accurate is the city website of a town, which was started by military take-over in 1945? By that time nearly none of the history was written in Polish.
Google Book Search Results:
Darłowo search 1930 = ResultZ: shows the first one with Darłowo ONE Polish book from 1927 (that's after the Treaty of Versailles created the Polish Corridor situation). Polish books with Darłowo only start after 1945 in 1946, 1947 etc.
Rügenwalde search 1930 = Result:
Result by 1930 Rügenwalde 761 books
Looks a lot like the Poles upon Soviet Union conquest and Communist Polish take-over of Rügenwalde had ONLY ONE book from 1927 to write about "history of Darłowo", when Rügenwalde was captured.
One would think, normally, that several hundred books over the centuries about Ruegenwalde might contain a bit more history, than the books after 1945 written about Darłowo in Polish during Communist conquest era.
Then again at Wikipedia one comes across the claims, that ONE Communist era book should have priority over several hundred over centuries, for example Talk:Simon Grunau and the ongoing reverts to the One Polish book version
An Observer ( 71.137.196.30 ( talk) 02:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC))
The quoted source doesn't say this. Xx236 ( talk) 08:42, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
What ist meant here by "county"? If the Rügenwalder Amt is meant, then in addition the number of NSDAP voters in the town of Rügenwalde should be stated bcause the Rügenwalder Amt did not include the town of Rügenwalde itself. It would be of interest to know whether there has been any significant difference between the corresponding number of NSDAP voters.- Ziegenspeck ( talk) 12:17, 13 December 2008 (UTC).
Dear Users from Germany. I found following information in Polish Large Encyclopaedia by Polish Scientific Publishing House, which are different from sources provided by you. Can we discuss the issue? My source says that first city rights were given in 1271 by the Prince of Rueggen (not in 1270 as is in WP now). Moreover, the city was totally destroyed in 1283 during fights between the Prince of Rueggen and the Prince of Gdańsk Mszczuj II - and not "decayed" as in WP. Besides, " to decay" is explained by wiktionary as "A deterioration of condition or plaque on ones teeth"
Further, my source claims that take over by Brandenburg took place in 1308 and not in 1295.
Can you please verify the above version against books available to you? Can we come to one agreed by everybody version? Wroman ( talk) 15:34, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) If different sources give different dates, we should give a range instead of trying to figure out the one and only true date. I reintroduced 1308, gave a full quote in rough translation in the footnote, but left the other date in place as an alternative finding. The Piskorski book is a source that has been edited by Jan Piskorski himself, Werner Buchholz, Jörg Hackmann, Alina Hutnikiewicz, Norbert Kersken, Hans-Werner Rautenberg, Wlodzimierz Stepinski, Zygmunt Szultka, Bogdan Wachowiak, and Edward Wlodarczyk - all of them Pomerania experts from Greifswald, Lübeck, Marburg, Posen, Stolp, and Stettin. Even such a compendium is not necessarily free of erronous statements, but it should at least be mentioned. Skäpperöd ( talk) 15:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
besides the "destroyed by purpose" entry by Wikipedia User:156.17.122.152, he deliberately re-added a lot more mistages, deleted link to Ascanians etc. An Observer ( 71.137.196.30 ( talk) 17:58, 19 December 2008 (UTC))
During the Napoleonic Wars some of its inhabitants, in particular ship owners and businessmen, profited from smuggling British goods to the continent. In 1871 the town, along with Prussia, became a part of the reconstituted second German Empire
Before 1807 Pommerania was part of the first German Empire (Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation) between 1815 and 1866 it was part of the German Bund (Federation of German States) and from 1871 till 1945 part of the second German Reich. The Nazis counted there peroid of rule since 1933 as third German Reich.-- 87.157.214.12 ( talk) 15:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Can we please not use these on the article? Like Kratz. In some instances their usage may be ok and uncontroversial in other instances the same sources can be used for skewed POV pushing. Best to just cut through it and remove the outdated and very possibly biased sources all together. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 16:43, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
There is no grammatical or expository reason to italicize former German names of now-Polish localities in the areas given to postwar Poland under border changes promulgated at the Potsdam Conference. In English, italics usually denote foreign (non-English) words for things or concepts, but not place names. Prior to 1945, Darłowo was officially Rügenwalde, not Rügenwalde, and the German name should not be italicized.
The automatic italicization of former German names of now-Polish or -Russian places misleads casual English-speaking readers to think the former, historically actual German names are merely German exonyms [3] for pre-existing Polish or Russian place-names, which often is not the case. Sca ( talk) 17:41, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
source: Rocznik Statystyczny 1981, Główny Urząd Statystyczny, Warszawa 1981, Rok XLI
1960: 9.200 inhabitants
1970: 11.300 inhabitants
1975: 12.900 inhabitants
1980: 13.400 inhabitants
cc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caius2ga ( talk • contribs) 20:33, 30 October 2003 (UTC)
was Bogislav V really a German Duke? House of Pommerania was a Slavic dynasty — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wroman ( talk • contribs) 12:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
as the article seemed to be totally based on only one German book, I added few lines presenting works of Polish histography with relevant sources provided. Wroman ( talk) 13:43, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
That's a bit POV statement and a bit nationalistic-Germany was only created in 1871. It thus can't be compared to Poland after Partitions since Poland existed before Partitions, while Germany didn't exist before 1871. Please do not push such POV in historic articles.-- Molobo ( talk) 18:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
currently the article reads " During World War II, the Red Army occupied the town." which is suggesting that it was occupied through the whole period of World War II and that is not true. Perhaps someone could establish the exact date when the Red Army concquerred the city? Wroman ( talk) 19:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I added some history and added source requests, census data should be presented for support of 'entirely German' as well as source that Germans were moved rather then fled before Red Army as was often the case.-- Molobo ( talk) 14:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
-- Molobo ( talk) 20:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The discussion is at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Towns.27_websites_as_a_source_for_history. Skäpperöd ( talk) 20:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Who is Manfred Vollack and what are his credentials. Does he name Darłowo by name ?-- Molobo ( talk) 18:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Auf Initiative des Heimatkreises Kolberg-Körlin veröffentlichte Manfred Vollack das Buch "Das Kolberger Land - Seine Städte und Dörfer - Ein pommersches Heimatbuch" - Heimat means emotions rather than facts. Xx236 ( talk) 11:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
(moved from my talk)
Why did you converted Latin names to German ones ? The text you brought as source is in Latin and has no German names ? Could you explain the reason behind it ? -- Molobo ( talk) 21:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The pope's name is a official title. Not comperable. Please provide sources of usage of the names. Also who are the Swansons ? The original source makes no use of such wording.-- Molobo ( talk) 22:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
dear user Skäpperöd - the funny thing is that previous history version of that page indicated that city rights were given by Brandenburg Margraves and now by local noble people who were vassals of Brandenburg Margraves - this is moove in good direction! Wroman ( talk) 10:39, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
The main issue is that Skäpperöd in previous version gave wrong information that city rights were given by Brandenburg Margraves. The same user claimed that city website is an unreliable source of information - is it fair? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wroman ( talk • contribs) 15:16, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
The question arose, how accurate is the city website of a town, which was started by military take-over in 1945? By that time nearly none of the history was written in Polish.
Google Book Search Results:
Darłowo search 1930 = ResultZ: shows the first one with Darłowo ONE Polish book from 1927 (that's after the Treaty of Versailles created the Polish Corridor situation). Polish books with Darłowo only start after 1945 in 1946, 1947 etc.
Rügenwalde search 1930 = Result:
Result by 1930 Rügenwalde 761 books
Looks a lot like the Poles upon Soviet Union conquest and Communist Polish take-over of Rügenwalde had ONLY ONE book from 1927 to write about "history of Darłowo", when Rügenwalde was captured.
One would think, normally, that several hundred books over the centuries about Ruegenwalde might contain a bit more history, than the books after 1945 written about Darłowo in Polish during Communist conquest era.
Then again at Wikipedia one comes across the claims, that ONE Communist era book should have priority over several hundred over centuries, for example Talk:Simon Grunau and the ongoing reverts to the One Polish book version
An Observer ( 71.137.196.30 ( talk) 02:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC))
The quoted source doesn't say this. Xx236 ( talk) 08:42, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
What ist meant here by "county"? If the Rügenwalder Amt is meant, then in addition the number of NSDAP voters in the town of Rügenwalde should be stated bcause the Rügenwalder Amt did not include the town of Rügenwalde itself. It would be of interest to know whether there has been any significant difference between the corresponding number of NSDAP voters.- Ziegenspeck ( talk) 12:17, 13 December 2008 (UTC).
Dear Users from Germany. I found following information in Polish Large Encyclopaedia by Polish Scientific Publishing House, which are different from sources provided by you. Can we discuss the issue? My source says that first city rights were given in 1271 by the Prince of Rueggen (not in 1270 as is in WP now). Moreover, the city was totally destroyed in 1283 during fights between the Prince of Rueggen and the Prince of Gdańsk Mszczuj II - and not "decayed" as in WP. Besides, " to decay" is explained by wiktionary as "A deterioration of condition or plaque on ones teeth"
Further, my source claims that take over by Brandenburg took place in 1308 and not in 1295.
Can you please verify the above version against books available to you? Can we come to one agreed by everybody version? Wroman ( talk) 15:34, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) If different sources give different dates, we should give a range instead of trying to figure out the one and only true date. I reintroduced 1308, gave a full quote in rough translation in the footnote, but left the other date in place as an alternative finding. The Piskorski book is a source that has been edited by Jan Piskorski himself, Werner Buchholz, Jörg Hackmann, Alina Hutnikiewicz, Norbert Kersken, Hans-Werner Rautenberg, Wlodzimierz Stepinski, Zygmunt Szultka, Bogdan Wachowiak, and Edward Wlodarczyk - all of them Pomerania experts from Greifswald, Lübeck, Marburg, Posen, Stolp, and Stettin. Even such a compendium is not necessarily free of erronous statements, but it should at least be mentioned. Skäpperöd ( talk) 15:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
besides the "destroyed by purpose" entry by Wikipedia User:156.17.122.152, he deliberately re-added a lot more mistages, deleted link to Ascanians etc. An Observer ( 71.137.196.30 ( talk) 17:58, 19 December 2008 (UTC))
During the Napoleonic Wars some of its inhabitants, in particular ship owners and businessmen, profited from smuggling British goods to the continent. In 1871 the town, along with Prussia, became a part of the reconstituted second German Empire
Before 1807 Pommerania was part of the first German Empire (Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation) between 1815 and 1866 it was part of the German Bund (Federation of German States) and from 1871 till 1945 part of the second German Reich. The Nazis counted there peroid of rule since 1933 as third German Reich.-- 87.157.214.12 ( talk) 15:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Can we please not use these on the article? Like Kratz. In some instances their usage may be ok and uncontroversial in other instances the same sources can be used for skewed POV pushing. Best to just cut through it and remove the outdated and very possibly biased sources all together. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 16:43, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
There is no grammatical or expository reason to italicize former German names of now-Polish localities in the areas given to postwar Poland under border changes promulgated at the Potsdam Conference. In English, italics usually denote foreign (non-English) words for things or concepts, but not place names. Prior to 1945, Darłowo was officially Rügenwalde, not Rügenwalde, and the German name should not be italicized.
The automatic italicization of former German names of now-Polish or -Russian places misleads casual English-speaking readers to think the former, historically actual German names are merely German exonyms [3] for pre-existing Polish or Russian place-names, which often is not the case. Sca ( talk) 17:41, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:37, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Darłowo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:38, 29 November 2017 (UTC)