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I believe the names of the pieces, promotions, and movements have all been verified with Japanese Wikipedia. kwami 09:16, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
I believe that the kirin's move is the phoenix's move because kirin is colorbound. -- Guocuozuoduo ( talk) 23:57, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
We unfortunately cannot know many of the subtleties about the rules because we have no surviving records of dai shogi problems or games. Nevertheless, the most plausible reconstruction would follow chu shogi for these missing points. I may thus copy in some of these points about repetition, bare king, etc. from that article, of course noting that while these rules are likely, they are not proven. Double sharp ( talk) 03:08, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
“ | 本項で示す形の大将棋が文献に最初に現れるのは、1297年-1304年にかけて書かれたとされる「
普通唱導集」とされる。ここには大将棋指しに対しての死後の追悼文に、
という表現が見られる。この表現は130枚制大将棋の初期配置や駒の動きと矛盾せず、13世紀には大将棋があったものと強く推測される。 |
” |
Double sharp ( talk) 14:37, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
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Angry boar
In the SZ and SSZ, this is a wazir; but it is only so in SRZ for tai shogi. In dai shogi it cannot move directly backwards.
Evil wolf
In the SZ and SSZ, it moves as the silver general. In SRZ, it has the move given here.
Phoenix
In the SRZ: one square sideways and two squares diagonally (no indication of jumping).
Kirin
No sign of a jump in the SRZ.
Double sharp ( talk) 09:48, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
(These are just tidbits from clarifying Dai Dai. Maybe there are others. Seems that this indicates that the SRZ typically shows at least an early version that got changed later? Or maybe it's also full of errors, since the gold general(!) inexplicably has a changed move in Tai according to the SRZ.) Double sharp ( talk) 09:48, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
Try to use the following mnemonic set for Shogi variant boards.
Here's what it will look like for Dai shogi.
301fieriw ( talk) 15:57, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
While it is accepted that Chu shogi derived from Dai shogi, how can we explain the seemingly coincidental piece promotions (those appearing in Chu have the exact same promotions, while those unique to Dai all promote to gold general)? Japanese Wikipedia suggests that the original rules had a different set of promotions, but the popularity of Chu led to those promotions being "reimported" to Dai, and then the gold general was adapted for the remaining pieces as a placeholder, but gives no sources. OosakaNoOusama ( talk) 00:55, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
It is intriguing that the eliminated pieces all promote to Tokin, while in Chu Shogi all pieces promote differently, and the Tokin only appears as promoted Pawn. This makes one wonder if there is not a form of 'back contamination' here. Like that originally in Dai Shogi all the generals promoted to Gold (as Silver and Knight do in Sho Shogi), and that after elimination of the weakest pieces to produce Chu Shogi, Copper, Silver, Gold and Leopard were still considered too insignificant, and were assigned new promotions to pieces in the initial setup that could not yet be promoted to. And that these promotions then later trickled back into Dai Shogi, when people got accustomed to them. This is pure speculation, however.Double sharp ( talk) 09:15, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
醉象→太子、麒麟→獅子、鳳凰→奔王の3駒のみが成りを持ち、その他の駒は成りを持たなかったとされる。(Only three pieces had promotions: Drunk Elephant → Crown Prince, Kirin → Lion, Phoenix → Free King, while all other pieces did not promote.)
大象戯成馬[sic] 以上三枚.
酔象成太子 鳳凰成奔王 麒麟成師子[sic]
このほか、以上の3駒以外については、獅子・奔王・龍王・龍馬など、金将に成ってしまうとデメリットしかない駒は成りを持たず、その他の全ての駒は金将に成ったという説もある (In addition, besides the three pieces mentioned above, there is also the speculation that every other piece promoted to Gold, except for the pieces which would only be disadvantaged upon promotion to Gold (such as Lion, Free King, Dragon King, Dragon Horse).)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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I believe the names of the pieces, promotions, and movements have all been verified with Japanese Wikipedia. kwami 09:16, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
I believe that the kirin's move is the phoenix's move because kirin is colorbound. -- Guocuozuoduo ( talk) 23:57, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
We unfortunately cannot know many of the subtleties about the rules because we have no surviving records of dai shogi problems or games. Nevertheless, the most plausible reconstruction would follow chu shogi for these missing points. I may thus copy in some of these points about repetition, bare king, etc. from that article, of course noting that while these rules are likely, they are not proven. Double sharp ( talk) 03:08, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
“ | 本項で示す形の大将棋が文献に最初に現れるのは、1297年-1304年にかけて書かれたとされる「
普通唱導集」とされる。ここには大将棋指しに対しての死後の追悼文に、
という表現が見られる。この表現は130枚制大将棋の初期配置や駒の動きと矛盾せず、13世紀には大将棋があったものと強く推測される。 |
” |
Double sharp ( talk) 14:37, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Dai shogi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:28, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
Angry boar
In the SZ and SSZ, this is a wazir; but it is only so in SRZ for tai shogi. In dai shogi it cannot move directly backwards.
Evil wolf
In the SZ and SSZ, it moves as the silver general. In SRZ, it has the move given here.
Phoenix
In the SRZ: one square sideways and two squares diagonally (no indication of jumping).
Kirin
No sign of a jump in the SRZ.
Double sharp ( talk) 09:48, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
(These are just tidbits from clarifying Dai Dai. Maybe there are others. Seems that this indicates that the SRZ typically shows at least an early version that got changed later? Or maybe it's also full of errors, since the gold general(!) inexplicably has a changed move in Tai according to the SRZ.) Double sharp ( talk) 09:48, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
Try to use the following mnemonic set for Shogi variant boards.
Here's what it will look like for Dai shogi.
301fieriw ( talk) 15:57, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
While it is accepted that Chu shogi derived from Dai shogi, how can we explain the seemingly coincidental piece promotions (those appearing in Chu have the exact same promotions, while those unique to Dai all promote to gold general)? Japanese Wikipedia suggests that the original rules had a different set of promotions, but the popularity of Chu led to those promotions being "reimported" to Dai, and then the gold general was adapted for the remaining pieces as a placeholder, but gives no sources. OosakaNoOusama ( talk) 00:55, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
It is intriguing that the eliminated pieces all promote to Tokin, while in Chu Shogi all pieces promote differently, and the Tokin only appears as promoted Pawn. This makes one wonder if there is not a form of 'back contamination' here. Like that originally in Dai Shogi all the generals promoted to Gold (as Silver and Knight do in Sho Shogi), and that after elimination of the weakest pieces to produce Chu Shogi, Copper, Silver, Gold and Leopard were still considered too insignificant, and were assigned new promotions to pieces in the initial setup that could not yet be promoted to. And that these promotions then later trickled back into Dai Shogi, when people got accustomed to them. This is pure speculation, however.Double sharp ( talk) 09:15, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
醉象→太子、麒麟→獅子、鳳凰→奔王の3駒のみが成りを持ち、その他の駒は成りを持たなかったとされる。(Only three pieces had promotions: Drunk Elephant → Crown Prince, Kirin → Lion, Phoenix → Free King, while all other pieces did not promote.)
大象戯成馬[sic] 以上三枚.
酔象成太子 鳳凰成奔王 麒麟成師子[sic]
このほか、以上の3駒以外については、獅子・奔王・龍王・龍馬など、金将に成ってしまうとデメリットしかない駒は成りを持たず、その他の全ての駒は金将に成ったという説もある (In addition, besides the three pieces mentioned above, there is also the speculation that every other piece promoted to Gold, except for the pieces which would only be disadvantaged upon promotion to Gold (such as Lion, Free King, Dragon King, Dragon Horse).)