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I see there is a link to the Japanese Computer Shogi article. Maybe somebody who reads Japanese can read that article and see if there is something interesting to add the English computer Shogi article. I guess this should be done on a regular basis, maybe twice a year. I see they list all the winners of annual CSA tournaments. I don’t think that is necessary. The CSA web page already does that and a link to there is sufficient. Mschribr ( talk) 12:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Isn't "The match was not interesting because the 2 players were not in the same playing level" a matter of opinion that does not belong on a wiki page? In addition, the whole section about Watanabe vs. Bonanza seems to be written from one point of view rather than objectively. 68.191.84.156 ( talk) 15:29, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
This claim is made a couple of times in the article and I am unsure of what this is intended to mean. It does not make sense as written because I am certain that I can manage to lose spectacularly to a computer program. I suspect the idea is that no computer program is competitive against high level amateurs when the time limit is large. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.164.68.85 ( talk) 22:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi,
I don't feel that the Youtube reviews of "Bonanza vs. Watanabe" and "Akara vs. Shimizu" by Hidetchi cited in the article are appropriate to use as inline citations because of WP:UGC so I have removed them. This is not a reflection of Hidetchi's skill at shogi, but Youtube videos/commentary are self generated; Therefore, they could easily be considered to be original research and their verifiability questioned. Moreover, no mention of who Hidetchi is or why he or his commentaries are notable or essential to understanding any of the information they cite; So, this could also be seen as simply a way of promoting somebody's Youtube channel. These links may, however, be acceptable as external links per WP:YOUTUBE, and can easily be re-added as such. If you disagree with their deletion, please discuss. Thanks in advance. - Marchjuly ( talk) 08:17, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi,
It seems that some of this article may have been edited using a Japanese keyboard. Of course, it's is very easy to input in English using such keyboards, but the default font for English is typically a Japanese one (for example, MS Mincho or MS Gothic on Windows computers) so some characters (particularly things like commas, quotation marks, apostrophes) are inputted as fullwidth (全角, zenkaku) characters instead of as the halfwidth (半角, hankaku) characters more common to British and American keyboards. No big deal really, just a minor formatting issue that would be hard to notice if you're not used to seeing it. Anyway, I've cleaned up the all of the fullwidth apostrophes I could find and then changed them to "typewriter apostrophes" per WP:PUNCT by using the template {{ `}}. Hope this doesn't create any problems. - Marchjuly ( talk) 01:17, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the YouTube link for the Miura vs. GPS game per WP:YOUTUBE because it may be a possible copyright violation. The YouTube channel linked to is not an official channel of NHK World and, therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that the person who uploaded the video is not the original copyright holder. Since the statement the link was supposed to be supporting is a direct quote, it should be supported by another more acceptable reliable source. I have added a {{ citation needed}} template and will try and find a source myself, but the quote should be ultimately removed if such a source cannot be found or does not exist per WP:BLPSOURCES. - Marchjuly ( talk) 05:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the following sources and replaced them with {{ citation needed}} templates because they link to discussion board forums or personal websites per WP:UGC or do not directly support what they are supposed to be supporting per WP:RSCONTEXT.
In addition to removing the above, I also cleaned up the two sources for the "3rd Denou-sen". - Marchjuly ( talk) 07:03, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I've removed the player profile pages on the Grimbergen website per WP:UGC and WP:LINKVIO. Not only were the links not really needed because links to the more frequently updated official JSA profile pages were also being provided, but the Grimbergen website contains photos of the players that might possibly be a copyright violation since some of the photos appear to have been taken directly from the JSA pages, e.g., Toshiaki Kubo, Masataka Goda, etc. - Marchjuly ( talk) 07:52, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
The section Computer shogi#Denou-sen (2013) is in need of much better sourcing and some rewriting. Here are some of the problems (in my opinion) which need to remedied:
- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:09, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Recent interesting article: http://www.japanpolicyforum.jp/archives/culture/pt20160516000523.html
Morishita Taku suggests that one recent problem of underperformance are the time restrictions at the ends of games. If the time limits are increased to 15 minutes per move throughout the game, then the human error rate may decrease making humans at a more even playing level in the end game. He also suggested using a separate board for humans to work out moves during their time. (The implication is that humans may have some faulty memory problems especially under short time limits that computers don't have. And, ultimately, the games are meant to compare human reasoning vs a computer's objective function and not merely memory.) With these modifications, he was able to dominate the same computer program that beat him earlier. Don't know if it's worth putting in the article, but yall can consider it. – ishwar (speak) 08:09, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Not sure where the best place for the following content added about Alphazero by Quantanew is, but it certainly does not belong in the lead section. I'm also not sure if it should even be mentioned in the lead section per WP:UNDUE after a suitable place has been found for it later in the article.
In December 2017, Alphazero beats AlphaGo Zero and other top chess and Shōgi programs after only 24 hours of play. After 4 hours of games Alphazero acquired a superhuman level. [1] [2]
Given the current layout of the article, it doesn't seem to fit anywhere other than perhaps in the "Milestones" section, but technically I'm sure if this would be considered a milestone in computer shogi. Maybe a new section titled "Recent advances" or something similar should be created for this kind of thing, but "recent" seems to be problematic per WP:REALTIME and may require constant updating or it will quickly be dated and I don't before a separate section titled "Alphazero" would be appropriate per WP:UNDUE. Anyone have any suggestions? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:17, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I see there is a link to the Japanese Computer Shogi article. Maybe somebody who reads Japanese can read that article and see if there is something interesting to add the English computer Shogi article. I guess this should be done on a regular basis, maybe twice a year. I see they list all the winners of annual CSA tournaments. I don’t think that is necessary. The CSA web page already does that and a link to there is sufficient. Mschribr ( talk) 12:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Isn't "The match was not interesting because the 2 players were not in the same playing level" a matter of opinion that does not belong on a wiki page? In addition, the whole section about Watanabe vs. Bonanza seems to be written from one point of view rather than objectively. 68.191.84.156 ( talk) 15:29, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
This claim is made a couple of times in the article and I am unsure of what this is intended to mean. It does not make sense as written because I am certain that I can manage to lose spectacularly to a computer program. I suspect the idea is that no computer program is competitive against high level amateurs when the time limit is large. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.164.68.85 ( talk) 22:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi,
I don't feel that the Youtube reviews of "Bonanza vs. Watanabe" and "Akara vs. Shimizu" by Hidetchi cited in the article are appropriate to use as inline citations because of WP:UGC so I have removed them. This is not a reflection of Hidetchi's skill at shogi, but Youtube videos/commentary are self generated; Therefore, they could easily be considered to be original research and their verifiability questioned. Moreover, no mention of who Hidetchi is or why he or his commentaries are notable or essential to understanding any of the information they cite; So, this could also be seen as simply a way of promoting somebody's Youtube channel. These links may, however, be acceptable as external links per WP:YOUTUBE, and can easily be re-added as such. If you disagree with their deletion, please discuss. Thanks in advance. - Marchjuly ( talk) 08:17, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi,
It seems that some of this article may have been edited using a Japanese keyboard. Of course, it's is very easy to input in English using such keyboards, but the default font for English is typically a Japanese one (for example, MS Mincho or MS Gothic on Windows computers) so some characters (particularly things like commas, quotation marks, apostrophes) are inputted as fullwidth (全角, zenkaku) characters instead of as the halfwidth (半角, hankaku) characters more common to British and American keyboards. No big deal really, just a minor formatting issue that would be hard to notice if you're not used to seeing it. Anyway, I've cleaned up the all of the fullwidth apostrophes I could find and then changed them to "typewriter apostrophes" per WP:PUNCT by using the template {{ `}}. Hope this doesn't create any problems. - Marchjuly ( talk) 01:17, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the YouTube link for the Miura vs. GPS game per WP:YOUTUBE because it may be a possible copyright violation. The YouTube channel linked to is not an official channel of NHK World and, therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that the person who uploaded the video is not the original copyright holder. Since the statement the link was supposed to be supporting is a direct quote, it should be supported by another more acceptable reliable source. I have added a {{ citation needed}} template and will try and find a source myself, but the quote should be ultimately removed if such a source cannot be found or does not exist per WP:BLPSOURCES. - Marchjuly ( talk) 05:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the following sources and replaced them with {{ citation needed}} templates because they link to discussion board forums or personal websites per WP:UGC or do not directly support what they are supposed to be supporting per WP:RSCONTEXT.
In addition to removing the above, I also cleaned up the two sources for the "3rd Denou-sen". - Marchjuly ( talk) 07:03, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I've removed the player profile pages on the Grimbergen website per WP:UGC and WP:LINKVIO. Not only were the links not really needed because links to the more frequently updated official JSA profile pages were also being provided, but the Grimbergen website contains photos of the players that might possibly be a copyright violation since some of the photos appear to have been taken directly from the JSA pages, e.g., Toshiaki Kubo, Masataka Goda, etc. - Marchjuly ( talk) 07:52, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
The section Computer shogi#Denou-sen (2013) is in need of much better sourcing and some rewriting. Here are some of the problems (in my opinion) which need to remedied:
- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:09, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Recent interesting article: http://www.japanpolicyforum.jp/archives/culture/pt20160516000523.html
Morishita Taku suggests that one recent problem of underperformance are the time restrictions at the ends of games. If the time limits are increased to 15 minutes per move throughout the game, then the human error rate may decrease making humans at a more even playing level in the end game. He also suggested using a separate board for humans to work out moves during their time. (The implication is that humans may have some faulty memory problems especially under short time limits that computers don't have. And, ultimately, the games are meant to compare human reasoning vs a computer's objective function and not merely memory.) With these modifications, he was able to dominate the same computer program that beat him earlier. Don't know if it's worth putting in the article, but yall can consider it. – ishwar (speak) 08:09, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Not sure where the best place for the following content added about Alphazero by Quantanew is, but it certainly does not belong in the lead section. I'm also not sure if it should even be mentioned in the lead section per WP:UNDUE after a suitable place has been found for it later in the article.
In December 2017, Alphazero beats AlphaGo Zero and other top chess and Shōgi programs after only 24 hours of play. After 4 hours of games Alphazero acquired a superhuman level. [1] [2]
Given the current layout of the article, it doesn't seem to fit anywhere other than perhaps in the "Milestones" section, but technically I'm sure if this would be considered a milestone in computer shogi. Maybe a new section titled "Recent advances" or something similar should be created for this kind of thing, but "recent" seems to be problematic per WP:REALTIME and may require constant updating or it will quickly be dated and I don't before a separate section titled "Alphazero" would be appropriate per WP:UNDUE. Anyone have any suggestions? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:17, 7 December 2017 (UTC)