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I would have expected to see it somewhere. I wrote an article a while back at Galatians 3:28 since it has an extensive bibliography. ( t · c) buidhe 05:34, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
It's hard to believe that Animal rights is more significant than the rest of Environmental ethics, given how significant issues of global warming and pollution have been in recent Christian debates. I would try to cut down the animal section to 1 paragraph if possible. Also, I think one should mention the conservative Christian case against environmentalism, explained here [1] ( t · c) buidhe 06:34, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Capital punishment section seems to mostly give the pro- argument. But most countries in the world have abolished it and the largest Christian denomination (Catholic Church) is now opposed. Although probably for most of history capital punishment was considered compatible with Christianity, I think you might give more of a sense that Christian views on this issue have changed. ( t · c) buidhe 21:43, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Sorry it's been so long. I proceed! I'm going to focus on content and organization for now and ignore MOS/grammar until the prose has settled down.
between AD 27–30 and AD 325A bit weird to have a range within a range; is there a reason it's not just just
between AD 27 and AD 325?
held as generally bindingAmong whom?
the Summa Theologica, that became known as Thomism,Do you mean "gave rise to Thomism" ?
in his classic treatise On Christian Liberty argued that moral effort is a response to graceGiving a date of publication for his treatise would be nice
all humans have a vocation, a calling, and the guiding measure of its value is simply whether it impedes or furthers God's willI found this fascinating. So Calvin said that some humans intrinsically have a calling to a role in society that impedes God's will? Is this related to predestination?
The Reform ethicWe should probably make clear that Calvinism is Reformed Christianity, for the unfamiliar
upheld the separation of the spiritual and earthly roles for government, asserting that one important role of civil government is to provide restraint for evildoersI don't really understand what this is saying. What is the spiritual role of government here?
but "it is a nice question whether those (Enlightenment) ideas ... form"Probably a long enough quote that the author needs to be credited inline. Alternatively, paraphrase! :D
The Roman Catholic church of the 1600s responded to Reformation Protestantism in three waysThe "three ways" part is a bit confusing I think because the enumeration isn't completely clear. I'd prefer just "various ways" or a clearer distinction between the following three ways. Alternatively, something like "in three ways: papal reform, new orders of monks such as the Jesuits, and the Council of Trent."
commonly known as the JesuitsWell that's an easter egg link if I've ever seen one! :P Imo I think we can just say "with the most influential being the Jesuits". The full name isn't important
was the nature of human natureHow meta! Love it.
Multiple versions of modern Christian ethics have been produced by the influence of different strands of thoughtThis seems a bit verbose and vague. The rest of the paragraph is also a bit weak; there doesn't seem to be anything tying it together.
asserts the answer to this difficulty lies in embracing secular standards of rationality and coherence while refusing secular conclusionsFascinating.
Will get to more later. Cheers, Ovinus ( talk) 18:20, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
I have beefed up modern ethics and actually cut nearly 500 words from the rest, but as God is my witness, I do not see how to cut more. There are just so many separate topics here! I understand if you don't want to do more, but do know your comments are genuinely helpful - whether I am capable of following them or not! :-) Thank you! Jenhawk777 ( talk) 20:59, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Cerebellum ( talk · contribs) 17:51, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello! I'll be reviewing this article, probably will take about a week. --
Cerebellum (
talk) 17:51, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Jenhawk777: I admire you for taking on such a broad topic! So many GAs (including my own!) are about narrow topics which are easy to write. Summing up a tradition of 2000 years is a daunting task but you've written an excellent article. Of course I have suggestions for improvement, but I have no doubt this article will be a GA once we finish the review process. My comments below are in no particular order, if you disagree with any of them just say so! -- Cerebellum ( talk) 10:10, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
That is all of the "big picture" content comments I have, everything else will just be specific stuff about the prose, references, images, or whatever. I'll get that stuff to you Monday. I haven't read the talk page discussions so I apologize if any of this has already been discussed. My personal POV is secular so the comments above may be biased against Christianity, if you think so let's talk about it and find a neutral middle ground. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 10:10, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Jenhawk777: I am going to be late finishing the review :( There is an internet outage at my house and I am not good at editing on mobile. Spectrum is coming tomorrow night to make repairs, so hopefully Wednesday I’ll finish the review. Your responses above all seem reasonable, none of that stuff should be an issue. — Cerebellum ( talk) 19:18, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
OK, sorry about the delay! On to the more formal portion of the review. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 12:13, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
|
beginning with obedience to a set of rules and laws (seen as divine commands) which are morally required, forbidden, or permitted.I think you can omit a few words here, I would change to beginning with obedience to a set of rules and laws which are seen as divine commands. It is evident that the rules and laws are morally required, and saying that they are forbidden or permitted is a little awkward; it is certain actions which are forbidden or permitted, not the rules themselves.
Natural-law ethic.Does the source say it that way? I would say natural law ethic.
universally known independently.It's strange to have two adverbs sandwiching the verb, I would omit "universally". The rest of the sentence says that the laws are innate in all people so you won't lose any meaning.
It emerged from Judaism still dependent on the Hebrew canon, and the legacies of ancient Greek and Hellenistic philosophy.This sentence is a little confusing to me and doesn't read smoothly, could you omit
still dependent on the Hebrew canon? It's evident that Judaism depends on the Hebrew canon. Or maybe revert back to an earlier version, it used to say
It emerged out of the heritage shared by both Judaism and Christianity, and depended upon the Hebrew canon as well as important legacies from Greek and Hellenistic philosophy.I thought that was pretty clear.
abstain from blood. I'm not sure what that means; eating blood?
"with the marked exception of Visigothic Spain in the seventh century, Jews in Latin Christendom lived relatively peacefully with their Christian neighbors through most of the Middle Ages"Since there are two footnotes here, it's not clear which one the quote is from.
"one of the outstanding achievements of the High Middle Ages"MOS:QUOTE says that " The source must be named in article text if the quotation is an opinion", I'm on the fence here since you could say that the status of the Summa is a fact not an opinion. What do you think?
that eventually became the school of thought known as ThomismCan you omit this? Doesn't seem relevant to this article.
early modern Christian ethicists: The early modern period ends around 1800, maybe change to 19th century?
was determining the nature of human natureI think {tq|was the study of human nature}} sounds better.
Meyer asserts the answer to this difficulty: This is just my opinion, feel free to ignore. What you wrote is grammatically correct, but I prefer
Meyer asserts that. I just think it sounds better, here is some background on the issue.
(a) (metaphysics). What about making this a bulleted list?
"It is arguably one of Judaism's greatest contributions to the history of religions to assert that the divine Reality is communicated to mankind through words."Raw quote with no context :( I would provide attribution or rephrase in your own words.
There is tension between inclusivity and exclusivity inherent in all the Abrahamic traditions.I would rephrase as {
There is an inherent tension between inclusivity and exclusivity in all the Abrahamic traditions.
Done Jenhawk777 ( talk) 05:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
had significant moral and legal questions: Change to
faced significant moral and legal questions.
Counter-terrorism is a kind of preventive war.I would omit this, not relevant to the article.
Early key elements in criminal justice: Change to
Early criminal justice.
"from each according to his ability, to each according to his need": This is a common saying, but I think since it is a quote it needs a source.
In most ancient religions the primary focus is on humankind's relationship to nature: The source does say this, but I don't really believe it and the source is from 1889; could you find a more modern source if it is true?
When the Pharisee asked Jesus: "Who is my neighbor?"Maybe add Bible citation,
When the Pharisee asked Jesus: "Who is my neighbor?" in the Gospel of X.
Ontologically equal, Functionally different: Does this need to be capitalized?
Cahill concludes that, "Personal autonomy and mutual consent are almost the only criteria now commonly accepted in governing our sexual behavior.Is this the case within Christianity, or the non-Christian world?
sacrifices to free slaves: Might be silly, but since this is an article about religion a reader might confuse sacrifices of one's money with animal sacrifices; maybe change to something like "used their personal resources to free slaves." Or maybe it's clear from the context.
Stories of racial violence over the last decades: Can change to
Racial violence during the last decades.
Charges of abuses of technology in neo-natal intensive care units have already been leveled.Weasel words? Since the text doesn't say who leveled these charges. I would rephrase or remove.
Manipulating the genetic code can prevent inheritable diseases and also produce, for those rich enough, designer babies "destined to be taller, faster and smarter than their classmates."You don't need this here, since genetic engineering has its own section.
rooted in covenant fidelityI don't know what this means, and if you omitted it the sentence would still make sense.
actions that can be seen as unconditionally wrong, when they are acts of maximal love toward another, become unconditionally right.I would omit both uses of "unconditionally", doesn't seem to add meaning.
Still, many American Christians have become polarized over these issues with a number of conservatives responding in opposition because of fear concerning the perceived threat that modern pluralism poses to their values.Does the source really say that? In the abstract I see fears that “stewardship” of God’s creation is drifting toward neo-pagan nature worship, and from apocalyptic beliefs about “end times” that make it pointless to worry about global warming, which isn't quite the same thing. I think this sentence is an overly broad generalization, I would remove everything after "opposition".
@ Jenhawk777: Sorry for the long review :( Hope it is helpful. I will place the article on hold for now, take as long as you need to work on it before I close the review. More important to improve the article than meet an arbitrary deadline. Once again I'm humbled by the amount of effort you and other editors have put into this article. If you ever get tired of working on it perhaps it will help to reflect that it got 12,000 page views last month, probably a broader reach than the average PhD dissertation! -- Cerebellum ( talk) 12:13, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
The URLs in the {{ Backwards copy}} tag above are suspect, to say the least (not to mention the "malicious" comments – what is that?); the tag should probably be removed, since the article is at GAN. Mini apolis 23:57, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
this is a fishing address. Click it and you get directed here: [6] Pursue, and you will get redirected to any number of different sites for book sales, streaming movies, and others that all want your credit card before allowing you to see the supposed article. Even if you sign up, you don't get the article itself because you get redirected to those other sites. This is not a genuine article.I assume buidhe ( talk · contribs) had good reason for overwriting my explanation and adding the malicious warning on 14 Feb. of this year instead. She generally has good reasons for everything she does. I suggest that if you disagree with our conclusions, that you click on those web addresses in each of the separate tags and see what you find for yourself. Then come back and tell us whether you think this backwards copy-vio tag is "suspect". Jenhawk777 ( talk) 06:08, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
(
←) {{
Backwards copy}} is used for a link to "a mainstream news article or publication"
, not a spam link. WP is a collaborative project, and it's not any one editor's job to
protect an article.
Mini
apolis 20:32, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
All quotation marks are used according to MOS standards in British style now, I'm sure. I went through the entire article. I did find about a dozen errors - out of 786 uses - and that improves the quality of this article, so thank you. I found two contractions, and removed them from the text, but there are still a couple contractions that remain within quotes and titles. I can't - cannot - do anything about those. There are no uses of quotation marks for emphasis and never were in this article. All quotation marks are around quotes from the source cited inline. All of them are quotes or references. Thank you so much to whoever contributed that! It has indeed improved the article. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 21:21, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
''prophetic ethics''
), despite the removal of the {{
cleanup}} template. See
MOS:EMPHASIS and
MOS:BADEMPHASIS for guidance. Good luck with the GA review; it looks like the article is developing nicely. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 03:46, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
<em>...</em>
, not ''...''
.
The article Christian values really sucks. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 11:07, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Christian ethics has been listed as one of the
Philosophy and religion good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: April 8, 2021. ( Reviewed version). |
This
level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
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This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following sources:
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I would have expected to see it somewhere. I wrote an article a while back at Galatians 3:28 since it has an extensive bibliography. ( t · c) buidhe 05:34, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
It's hard to believe that Animal rights is more significant than the rest of Environmental ethics, given how significant issues of global warming and pollution have been in recent Christian debates. I would try to cut down the animal section to 1 paragraph if possible. Also, I think one should mention the conservative Christian case against environmentalism, explained here [1] ( t · c) buidhe 06:34, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Capital punishment section seems to mostly give the pro- argument. But most countries in the world have abolished it and the largest Christian denomination (Catholic Church) is now opposed. Although probably for most of history capital punishment was considered compatible with Christianity, I think you might give more of a sense that Christian views on this issue have changed. ( t · c) buidhe 21:43, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Sorry it's been so long. I proceed! I'm going to focus on content and organization for now and ignore MOS/grammar until the prose has settled down.
between AD 27–30 and AD 325A bit weird to have a range within a range; is there a reason it's not just just
between AD 27 and AD 325?
held as generally bindingAmong whom?
the Summa Theologica, that became known as Thomism,Do you mean "gave rise to Thomism" ?
in his classic treatise On Christian Liberty argued that moral effort is a response to graceGiving a date of publication for his treatise would be nice
all humans have a vocation, a calling, and the guiding measure of its value is simply whether it impedes or furthers God's willI found this fascinating. So Calvin said that some humans intrinsically have a calling to a role in society that impedes God's will? Is this related to predestination?
The Reform ethicWe should probably make clear that Calvinism is Reformed Christianity, for the unfamiliar
upheld the separation of the spiritual and earthly roles for government, asserting that one important role of civil government is to provide restraint for evildoersI don't really understand what this is saying. What is the spiritual role of government here?
but "it is a nice question whether those (Enlightenment) ideas ... form"Probably a long enough quote that the author needs to be credited inline. Alternatively, paraphrase! :D
The Roman Catholic church of the 1600s responded to Reformation Protestantism in three waysThe "three ways" part is a bit confusing I think because the enumeration isn't completely clear. I'd prefer just "various ways" or a clearer distinction between the following three ways. Alternatively, something like "in three ways: papal reform, new orders of monks such as the Jesuits, and the Council of Trent."
commonly known as the JesuitsWell that's an easter egg link if I've ever seen one! :P Imo I think we can just say "with the most influential being the Jesuits". The full name isn't important
was the nature of human natureHow meta! Love it.
Multiple versions of modern Christian ethics have been produced by the influence of different strands of thoughtThis seems a bit verbose and vague. The rest of the paragraph is also a bit weak; there doesn't seem to be anything tying it together.
asserts the answer to this difficulty lies in embracing secular standards of rationality and coherence while refusing secular conclusionsFascinating.
Will get to more later. Cheers, Ovinus ( talk) 18:20, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
I have beefed up modern ethics and actually cut nearly 500 words from the rest, but as God is my witness, I do not see how to cut more. There are just so many separate topics here! I understand if you don't want to do more, but do know your comments are genuinely helpful - whether I am capable of following them or not! :-) Thank you! Jenhawk777 ( talk) 20:59, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Cerebellum ( talk · contribs) 17:51, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello! I'll be reviewing this article, probably will take about a week. --
Cerebellum (
talk) 17:51, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Jenhawk777: I admire you for taking on such a broad topic! So many GAs (including my own!) are about narrow topics which are easy to write. Summing up a tradition of 2000 years is a daunting task but you've written an excellent article. Of course I have suggestions for improvement, but I have no doubt this article will be a GA once we finish the review process. My comments below are in no particular order, if you disagree with any of them just say so! -- Cerebellum ( talk) 10:10, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
That is all of the "big picture" content comments I have, everything else will just be specific stuff about the prose, references, images, or whatever. I'll get that stuff to you Monday. I haven't read the talk page discussions so I apologize if any of this has already been discussed. My personal POV is secular so the comments above may be biased against Christianity, if you think so let's talk about it and find a neutral middle ground. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 10:10, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Jenhawk777: I am going to be late finishing the review :( There is an internet outage at my house and I am not good at editing on mobile. Spectrum is coming tomorrow night to make repairs, so hopefully Wednesday I’ll finish the review. Your responses above all seem reasonable, none of that stuff should be an issue. — Cerebellum ( talk) 19:18, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
OK, sorry about the delay! On to the more formal portion of the review. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 12:13, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
|
beginning with obedience to a set of rules and laws (seen as divine commands) which are morally required, forbidden, or permitted.I think you can omit a few words here, I would change to beginning with obedience to a set of rules and laws which are seen as divine commands. It is evident that the rules and laws are morally required, and saying that they are forbidden or permitted is a little awkward; it is certain actions which are forbidden or permitted, not the rules themselves.
Natural-law ethic.Does the source say it that way? I would say natural law ethic.
universally known independently.It's strange to have two adverbs sandwiching the verb, I would omit "universally". The rest of the sentence says that the laws are innate in all people so you won't lose any meaning.
It emerged from Judaism still dependent on the Hebrew canon, and the legacies of ancient Greek and Hellenistic philosophy.This sentence is a little confusing to me and doesn't read smoothly, could you omit
still dependent on the Hebrew canon? It's evident that Judaism depends on the Hebrew canon. Or maybe revert back to an earlier version, it used to say
It emerged out of the heritage shared by both Judaism and Christianity, and depended upon the Hebrew canon as well as important legacies from Greek and Hellenistic philosophy.I thought that was pretty clear.
abstain from blood. I'm not sure what that means; eating blood?
"with the marked exception of Visigothic Spain in the seventh century, Jews in Latin Christendom lived relatively peacefully with their Christian neighbors through most of the Middle Ages"Since there are two footnotes here, it's not clear which one the quote is from.
"one of the outstanding achievements of the High Middle Ages"MOS:QUOTE says that " The source must be named in article text if the quotation is an opinion", I'm on the fence here since you could say that the status of the Summa is a fact not an opinion. What do you think?
that eventually became the school of thought known as ThomismCan you omit this? Doesn't seem relevant to this article.
early modern Christian ethicists: The early modern period ends around 1800, maybe change to 19th century?
was determining the nature of human natureI think {tq|was the study of human nature}} sounds better.
Meyer asserts the answer to this difficulty: This is just my opinion, feel free to ignore. What you wrote is grammatically correct, but I prefer
Meyer asserts that. I just think it sounds better, here is some background on the issue.
(a) (metaphysics). What about making this a bulleted list?
"It is arguably one of Judaism's greatest contributions to the history of religions to assert that the divine Reality is communicated to mankind through words."Raw quote with no context :( I would provide attribution or rephrase in your own words.
There is tension between inclusivity and exclusivity inherent in all the Abrahamic traditions.I would rephrase as {
There is an inherent tension between inclusivity and exclusivity in all the Abrahamic traditions.
Done Jenhawk777 ( talk) 05:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
had significant moral and legal questions: Change to
faced significant moral and legal questions.
Counter-terrorism is a kind of preventive war.I would omit this, not relevant to the article.
Early key elements in criminal justice: Change to
Early criminal justice.
"from each according to his ability, to each according to his need": This is a common saying, but I think since it is a quote it needs a source.
In most ancient religions the primary focus is on humankind's relationship to nature: The source does say this, but I don't really believe it and the source is from 1889; could you find a more modern source if it is true?
When the Pharisee asked Jesus: "Who is my neighbor?"Maybe add Bible citation,
When the Pharisee asked Jesus: "Who is my neighbor?" in the Gospel of X.
Ontologically equal, Functionally different: Does this need to be capitalized?
Cahill concludes that, "Personal autonomy and mutual consent are almost the only criteria now commonly accepted in governing our sexual behavior.Is this the case within Christianity, or the non-Christian world?
sacrifices to free slaves: Might be silly, but since this is an article about religion a reader might confuse sacrifices of one's money with animal sacrifices; maybe change to something like "used their personal resources to free slaves." Or maybe it's clear from the context.
Stories of racial violence over the last decades: Can change to
Racial violence during the last decades.
Charges of abuses of technology in neo-natal intensive care units have already been leveled.Weasel words? Since the text doesn't say who leveled these charges. I would rephrase or remove.
Manipulating the genetic code can prevent inheritable diseases and also produce, for those rich enough, designer babies "destined to be taller, faster and smarter than their classmates."You don't need this here, since genetic engineering has its own section.
rooted in covenant fidelityI don't know what this means, and if you omitted it the sentence would still make sense.
actions that can be seen as unconditionally wrong, when they are acts of maximal love toward another, become unconditionally right.I would omit both uses of "unconditionally", doesn't seem to add meaning.
Still, many American Christians have become polarized over these issues with a number of conservatives responding in opposition because of fear concerning the perceived threat that modern pluralism poses to their values.Does the source really say that? In the abstract I see fears that “stewardship” of God’s creation is drifting toward neo-pagan nature worship, and from apocalyptic beliefs about “end times” that make it pointless to worry about global warming, which isn't quite the same thing. I think this sentence is an overly broad generalization, I would remove everything after "opposition".
@ Jenhawk777: Sorry for the long review :( Hope it is helpful. I will place the article on hold for now, take as long as you need to work on it before I close the review. More important to improve the article than meet an arbitrary deadline. Once again I'm humbled by the amount of effort you and other editors have put into this article. If you ever get tired of working on it perhaps it will help to reflect that it got 12,000 page views last month, probably a broader reach than the average PhD dissertation! -- Cerebellum ( talk) 12:13, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
The URLs in the {{ Backwards copy}} tag above are suspect, to say the least (not to mention the "malicious" comments – what is that?); the tag should probably be removed, since the article is at GAN. Mini apolis 23:57, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
this is a fishing address. Click it and you get directed here: [6] Pursue, and you will get redirected to any number of different sites for book sales, streaming movies, and others that all want your credit card before allowing you to see the supposed article. Even if you sign up, you don't get the article itself because you get redirected to those other sites. This is not a genuine article.I assume buidhe ( talk · contribs) had good reason for overwriting my explanation and adding the malicious warning on 14 Feb. of this year instead. She generally has good reasons for everything she does. I suggest that if you disagree with our conclusions, that you click on those web addresses in each of the separate tags and see what you find for yourself. Then come back and tell us whether you think this backwards copy-vio tag is "suspect". Jenhawk777 ( talk) 06:08, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
(
←) {{
Backwards copy}} is used for a link to "a mainstream news article or publication"
, not a spam link. WP is a collaborative project, and it's not any one editor's job to
protect an article.
Mini
apolis 20:32, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
All quotation marks are used according to MOS standards in British style now, I'm sure. I went through the entire article. I did find about a dozen errors - out of 786 uses - and that improves the quality of this article, so thank you. I found two contractions, and removed them from the text, but there are still a couple contractions that remain within quotes and titles. I can't - cannot - do anything about those. There are no uses of quotation marks for emphasis and never were in this article. All quotation marks are around quotes from the source cited inline. All of them are quotes or references. Thank you so much to whoever contributed that! It has indeed improved the article. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 21:21, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
''prophetic ethics''
), despite the removal of the {{
cleanup}} template. See
MOS:EMPHASIS and
MOS:BADEMPHASIS for guidance. Good luck with the GA review; it looks like the article is developing nicely. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 03:46, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
<em>...</em>
, not ''...''
.
The article Christian values really sucks. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 11:07, 7 April 2021 (UTC)