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Surely his books should be in a separate section? Also "The other side of the coin" is clearly not his latest book. ISBN references would be useful. [davoloid] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davoloid ( talk • contribs) 13:46, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
What do the Leader and Predecessor items in the infobox refer to? If to the current and previous leader of the front bench team, both are clearly wrong, as they are on Nick Clegg - are these mistakes or is there some logic I'm missing to this? LiberalViews 16:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
There is nothing about Huhne's parents or grand-parents in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.207.21 ( talk) 12:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC) The article says that he was born in "Westminster, North London". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.207.21 ( talk) 10:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC) His website says that he went to Westminster School, in Central London. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.207.21 ( talk) 14:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
[Subsequent spammy rant about him owning too many houses cleared]
Huhne is current chairman of Make Votes Count Coalition. What are his credentials and track record on electoral reform? Sandvika ( talk) 13:30, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Per policy, specifically WP:BLPNAME, we err on the side of privacy of the names of non-notable relatives and non-public individuals. Just because some other articles include them doesn't mean it's not a policy violation. The inclusion of the names does not add to the reader's understanding of Huhne, therefore there's no good reason to include them. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:13, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
From Nick Clegg Personal life: In 2000 Clegg married Miriam González Durántez, of Valladolid, Spain. They have three sons: Antonio, Alberto and Miguel,[89][90]
From Charles Kennedy Personal life: Sarah gave birth to their first child, Donald James Kennedy, at 12:14 am 12 April 2005, at St Thomas' Hospital, London
From Tony Blair Marriage and children: Blair married Booth, a Catholic and future Queen's Counsel, on 29 March 1980. They have four children: Euan Anthony, Nicholas John, Kathryn Hazel, and Leo George.
From Al Gore Marriage and children: They would go on to have four children, Karenna (born August 6, 1973), Kristin Carlson Gore[22] (born June 5, 1977), Sarah LaFon Gore[22] (born January 7, 1979), and Albert Gore III (born October 19, 1982).
From David Cameron Personal life: The Camerons have a daughter, Nancy Gwen[202] (born 19 January 2004, Westminster, London), and a son, Arthur Elwen (born 14 February 2006, Westminster)
From George Osbourne Personal life: The couple have two children, Luke Benedict, born in 2001, and Liberty Kate, born in 2003.[9][35]
Davidpatrick ( talk) 09:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
1) Many other Wikipedia entries for cabinet ministers make no mention marital status or children
You are absolutely right. And that is because there is no ruling that makes it mandatory to include such information. Nor should there be IMO. Some articles have that info. Some don't. But that doesn't address the point we are discussing. Unless you can provide evidence that the reason that the articles cited by you exclude mention of marital status or children because of BLP concerns (which I respectfully think you will find is not the case) then citing the NON-inclusion of children names in those articles does not have relevance to this point. The issue is simple. Is there a Wikipedia ruling that mandates that the names of the children of public figures must be excluded from every article because of BLP? If there is - then the names of Huhne's children do not belong in this article. And we Wikipedia editors are going to be very busy for the next few years culling thousand of similar articles of the name of every child of a public figure. If you find such a ruling please advise me so we can get busy.
2) text stating "Pryce's children from her first marriage elected to retain their father's name"
I agree that the text was not supported by the given reference. I agree that you were therefore correct in removing that particular text. That would have to be stated in a given reference. There is a reference for the fact that Huhne told an interviewer that he does not see his step-daughters often. And that is therefore an includable point. But you were right to exclude the other text unless and until there is a credible source for it.
3) your point about that these (now adult) children do not wish to be associated with Chris Huhne and that Wikipedia should respect their privacy
Because of the fact in point #2 above - that we are in agreement about - this is at present a moot point. But you raise an interesting issue. If there WAS a credible reference that those adult children do not wish to be associated with Chris Huhne - does that mean that their names should be excluded from the Wikipedia article because of THAT personal preference by the children to not associate with Huhne in their daily lives? We don't need to decide this here and now - but if that WAS a provable fact then it would actually argue the opposite way. It would be a notable fact relating to the personal life of the subject of the article. If (by way of example) there was a legal restraining order or an issue of emancipation that became a public matter then it would be encyclopedic to include that point and un-encyclopedic to exclude it.) Anyway - it's a moot point till there is a credible reference about it.
4) your query: can we agree that the names of Pryce's children by a former marriage do not belong here
I do not agree this at all. If you read Huhne's official biography on his website, his official biography on the Liberal Democrats website (both included below) and in numerous articles in national media, Huhne describes himself as having five children. He doesn't actually distinguish between those he fathered and those fathered by Pryce's children by her first marriage
Articles in national media regularly refer to his five children. Some make the distinction of which he fathered. Other articles do not.
In any event, Huhne has clearly included those children as part of his biographical material. So their existence and their names are governed by the same criteria as the other children. Incidentally both of them are adults in their 30s.
Davidpatrick ( talk) 15:50, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
I've started a discussion at
WT:BLP on this general topic. -
Rrius (
talk)
10:15, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
Aside from the fact that is would be totally non-notable and boring even if true, the story isn't even as clear cut as it makes out to be. As the last few lines of the 'investigation' admit:
That is why I removed the section. Comments? ninety: one 22:23, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Non-notable piece of trivia at best. Collect ( talk) 12:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Currently this reads like a bit of a case-against hatchet job. 2/3rds of the content is in the "criticisms" section. There are references for each issue but surely that's a skewering of proportions? Even the first sentence uses the negatively charged "self-styled..." phrase. Not very encyclopeadic. -- PRL1973 ( talk) 10:19, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I have added info about his time as Lib-Dem Home affairs spokesman and his work as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. There is more info that should be added. There also needs to be more info about his career as a journalist. Davidpatrick ( talk) 20:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
I recently did a couple of hours work rewriting this article as when I came across it it was so awful, almost attacking. This was reverted with an edit summary "re-instatement of version with cited sources systematically deleted by one user" .. this is not an accurate description of the good faith neutral contribution rewrite of an article close to attacking in need of a write, just because content is cited does not make it good or mean that it has to be kept at all cost. Since then a few edits have occurred and I reverted back to the NPOV rewrite version yesterday and it was reverted again reason given as intermittent edits were not included. The article is still awful and the neutral write I did was far better, as I do not really want to have to spend two more hours writing it again I would like to revert to the version and add any intermediate edits of value after, hopefully there are no objections to this beneficial contribution. This is the write for people to compare the two versions http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Chris_Huhne&diff=384281642&oldid=384280978 - Off2riorob ( talk) 13:48, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
I have been watching the reverting, and as I stated and actually did a rewrrtite that was neutral some time ago and was reverted back to the disputed one by the same user that is replacing the same conent still when other users have disputed it, I have added a NPOV tag. IMO - the article reads as if it is written as a bit of a mostly cited partisan attack. Off2riorob ( talk) 10:10, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
I concur with Off2riorob analysis. MikeBeckett ( talk) 22:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Making two long sections is not right per WP:BLP, WP:UNDUE etc. Choose one. Collect ( talk) 14:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Regarding all the mention of minor expense claims as the subject was allowed to claim for - it there any claim of wrongdoing or falsification of anything at all? I can't see any, as such, apart from the subject claimed his allowed expenses and such trivia was big news at the time, what is actually being reported in this section as a controversy? Off2riorob ( talk) 17:58, 14 April 2011 (UTC) .. Currently we have this, but why do we have it? seven lines of trivia more coverage than the whole of the article content reporting the subjects Education and upbringing.....a couple of the low quality citations that support this titillating trivia are
As part of the Daily Telegraph investigation into expense claims by MPs, Huhne was reported to have claimed for various suspect items including groceries, fluffy dusters and a trouser press. In 2006, he claimed £5,066 for painting work on his garden fences and chairs. His office running costs included 62p for semi-skimmed milk, chocolate HobNobs (79p), tea bags (89p) and a bus ticket (£3.20). Other items claimed included a cheese muffin (99p), bacon flavour Wheat Crunchies (28p) and Ready Brek (£1.81). He submitted a bill for £85.35 bill for the "mounting, framing and inscription of photo of Chris Huhne" claiming that he purchased the picture at the borough council's request to hang in the civic centre entrance.[62][63] He collected £119 for a mahogany Corby trouser press from John Lewis but later said he would repay the cost in order "to avoid controversy". He later claimed on a live Channel 4 news programme that he needed the trouser press to "look smart" for work.[64] In June 2010, it was revealed that in the second half of 2009, a period after the expenses scandal news story became known, Huhne claimed £14,948 in expenses, including a 14p bill for stationery. The claim also included costs incurred in servicing an old boiler at his constituency home.[65]
A couple of sentences about houses and wealth appear twice, just above and just below the header "Personal interests". But for Wiki's referencing system (which is beyond me) I would simply have done a minor edit to remove the earlier occurrence, but my attempt to do this caused more problems elsewhere. (Note that refs 12 and 93 mentioned in these sentences are identical, but ref 12 claims that the material is in the "Daily Maik" (sic) but ref 93 attributes it to "Mail on Sunday".) Could somebody more competent than me please do the editing job? Thanks. Eebkent ( talk) 10:20, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
my weird edit summary was due to two people reverting the POV comment in the article at the same time <g>. Collect ( talk) 17:45, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
There are a number of things that are simply untrue:
1. Chris Rennard was never Chief Whip but was Chief Executive of the Liberal Democrats (Election Conduct)
2. The assertion that "the "Calamity Clegg" dossier had actually been created and circulated by Trimingham" is untrue. She did not create or write the dossier and did not sign off the title (Election Conduct)
3. The assertion that "it was also revealed that Huhne had exercised his right to remain silent in response to a series of police questions in May" is untrue. He answered all the questions.
Points 2 and 3 above are serious as they are damaging to the reputation (both professional and personal) of the two people mentioned. These "facts" are based on unreliable newspaper articles whose journalists cannot possible know the truth because they weren't there.
B Accurate ( talk) 11:02, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Yes, because I am close to both individuals involved. National newspapers have an editorial point of view and many are hostile to the Lib Dems and Huhne. Also, they weren't present in the Huhne leadership campaign HQ (I was) and not present in the police station. In both cases these newspapers rely on second-hand gossip and innuendo. B Accurate ( talk) 11:23, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Lord Steel was not a leader of the Liberal Democrats. He was leader of the Liberals. He merely served as interim joint leader of what was then called the Social and Liberal Democrats while the new party formally elected its first leader. I have corrected the text accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.28.178.10 ( talk) 15:04, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
I've removed the reference to him being a "former" MP/politician as this is not strictly true until such time as he is appointed to the Manor of Northstead / Chiltern Hundreds (which he presumably will be within the next few days) as it is not possible to resign as an MP by any other means. Seems like a slightly hasty edit on someone's part; obviously this edit will need making at some point soon but I thought his page ought to be as accurate as possible at any moment in time. Pbrione ( talk) 16:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Chris Huhne article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Surely his books should be in a separate section? Also "The other side of the coin" is clearly not his latest book. ISBN references would be useful. [davoloid] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davoloid ( talk • contribs) 13:46, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
What do the Leader and Predecessor items in the infobox refer to? If to the current and previous leader of the front bench team, both are clearly wrong, as they are on Nick Clegg - are these mistakes or is there some logic I'm missing to this? LiberalViews 16:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
There is nothing about Huhne's parents or grand-parents in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.207.21 ( talk) 12:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC) The article says that he was born in "Westminster, North London". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.207.21 ( talk) 10:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC) His website says that he went to Westminster School, in Central London. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.207.21 ( talk) 14:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
[Subsequent spammy rant about him owning too many houses cleared]
Huhne is current chairman of Make Votes Count Coalition. What are his credentials and track record on electoral reform? Sandvika ( talk) 13:30, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Per policy, specifically WP:BLPNAME, we err on the side of privacy of the names of non-notable relatives and non-public individuals. Just because some other articles include them doesn't mean it's not a policy violation. The inclusion of the names does not add to the reader's understanding of Huhne, therefore there's no good reason to include them. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:13, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
From Nick Clegg Personal life: In 2000 Clegg married Miriam González Durántez, of Valladolid, Spain. They have three sons: Antonio, Alberto and Miguel,[89][90]
From Charles Kennedy Personal life: Sarah gave birth to their first child, Donald James Kennedy, at 12:14 am 12 April 2005, at St Thomas' Hospital, London
From Tony Blair Marriage and children: Blair married Booth, a Catholic and future Queen's Counsel, on 29 March 1980. They have four children: Euan Anthony, Nicholas John, Kathryn Hazel, and Leo George.
From Al Gore Marriage and children: They would go on to have four children, Karenna (born August 6, 1973), Kristin Carlson Gore[22] (born June 5, 1977), Sarah LaFon Gore[22] (born January 7, 1979), and Albert Gore III (born October 19, 1982).
From David Cameron Personal life: The Camerons have a daughter, Nancy Gwen[202] (born 19 January 2004, Westminster, London), and a son, Arthur Elwen (born 14 February 2006, Westminster)
From George Osbourne Personal life: The couple have two children, Luke Benedict, born in 2001, and Liberty Kate, born in 2003.[9][35]
Davidpatrick ( talk) 09:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
1) Many other Wikipedia entries for cabinet ministers make no mention marital status or children
You are absolutely right. And that is because there is no ruling that makes it mandatory to include such information. Nor should there be IMO. Some articles have that info. Some don't. But that doesn't address the point we are discussing. Unless you can provide evidence that the reason that the articles cited by you exclude mention of marital status or children because of BLP concerns (which I respectfully think you will find is not the case) then citing the NON-inclusion of children names in those articles does not have relevance to this point. The issue is simple. Is there a Wikipedia ruling that mandates that the names of the children of public figures must be excluded from every article because of BLP? If there is - then the names of Huhne's children do not belong in this article. And we Wikipedia editors are going to be very busy for the next few years culling thousand of similar articles of the name of every child of a public figure. If you find such a ruling please advise me so we can get busy.
2) text stating "Pryce's children from her first marriage elected to retain their father's name"
I agree that the text was not supported by the given reference. I agree that you were therefore correct in removing that particular text. That would have to be stated in a given reference. There is a reference for the fact that Huhne told an interviewer that he does not see his step-daughters often. And that is therefore an includable point. But you were right to exclude the other text unless and until there is a credible source for it.
3) your point about that these (now adult) children do not wish to be associated with Chris Huhne and that Wikipedia should respect their privacy
Because of the fact in point #2 above - that we are in agreement about - this is at present a moot point. But you raise an interesting issue. If there WAS a credible reference that those adult children do not wish to be associated with Chris Huhne - does that mean that their names should be excluded from the Wikipedia article because of THAT personal preference by the children to not associate with Huhne in their daily lives? We don't need to decide this here and now - but if that WAS a provable fact then it would actually argue the opposite way. It would be a notable fact relating to the personal life of the subject of the article. If (by way of example) there was a legal restraining order or an issue of emancipation that became a public matter then it would be encyclopedic to include that point and un-encyclopedic to exclude it.) Anyway - it's a moot point till there is a credible reference about it.
4) your query: can we agree that the names of Pryce's children by a former marriage do not belong here
I do not agree this at all. If you read Huhne's official biography on his website, his official biography on the Liberal Democrats website (both included below) and in numerous articles in national media, Huhne describes himself as having five children. He doesn't actually distinguish between those he fathered and those fathered by Pryce's children by her first marriage
Articles in national media regularly refer to his five children. Some make the distinction of which he fathered. Other articles do not.
In any event, Huhne has clearly included those children as part of his biographical material. So their existence and their names are governed by the same criteria as the other children. Incidentally both of them are adults in their 30s.
Davidpatrick ( talk) 15:50, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
I've started a discussion at
WT:BLP on this general topic. -
Rrius (
talk)
10:15, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
Aside from the fact that is would be totally non-notable and boring even if true, the story isn't even as clear cut as it makes out to be. As the last few lines of the 'investigation' admit:
That is why I removed the section. Comments? ninety: one 22:23, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Non-notable piece of trivia at best. Collect ( talk) 12:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Currently this reads like a bit of a case-against hatchet job. 2/3rds of the content is in the "criticisms" section. There are references for each issue but surely that's a skewering of proportions? Even the first sentence uses the negatively charged "self-styled..." phrase. Not very encyclopeadic. -- PRL1973 ( talk) 10:19, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I have added info about his time as Lib-Dem Home affairs spokesman and his work as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. There is more info that should be added. There also needs to be more info about his career as a journalist. Davidpatrick ( talk) 20:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
I recently did a couple of hours work rewriting this article as when I came across it it was so awful, almost attacking. This was reverted with an edit summary "re-instatement of version with cited sources systematically deleted by one user" .. this is not an accurate description of the good faith neutral contribution rewrite of an article close to attacking in need of a write, just because content is cited does not make it good or mean that it has to be kept at all cost. Since then a few edits have occurred and I reverted back to the NPOV rewrite version yesterday and it was reverted again reason given as intermittent edits were not included. The article is still awful and the neutral write I did was far better, as I do not really want to have to spend two more hours writing it again I would like to revert to the version and add any intermediate edits of value after, hopefully there are no objections to this beneficial contribution. This is the write for people to compare the two versions http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Chris_Huhne&diff=384281642&oldid=384280978 - Off2riorob ( talk) 13:48, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
I have been watching the reverting, and as I stated and actually did a rewrrtite that was neutral some time ago and was reverted back to the disputed one by the same user that is replacing the same conent still when other users have disputed it, I have added a NPOV tag. IMO - the article reads as if it is written as a bit of a mostly cited partisan attack. Off2riorob ( talk) 10:10, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
I concur with Off2riorob analysis. MikeBeckett ( talk) 22:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Making two long sections is not right per WP:BLP, WP:UNDUE etc. Choose one. Collect ( talk) 14:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Regarding all the mention of minor expense claims as the subject was allowed to claim for - it there any claim of wrongdoing or falsification of anything at all? I can't see any, as such, apart from the subject claimed his allowed expenses and such trivia was big news at the time, what is actually being reported in this section as a controversy? Off2riorob ( talk) 17:58, 14 April 2011 (UTC) .. Currently we have this, but why do we have it? seven lines of trivia more coverage than the whole of the article content reporting the subjects Education and upbringing.....a couple of the low quality citations that support this titillating trivia are
As part of the Daily Telegraph investigation into expense claims by MPs, Huhne was reported to have claimed for various suspect items including groceries, fluffy dusters and a trouser press. In 2006, he claimed £5,066 for painting work on his garden fences and chairs. His office running costs included 62p for semi-skimmed milk, chocolate HobNobs (79p), tea bags (89p) and a bus ticket (£3.20). Other items claimed included a cheese muffin (99p), bacon flavour Wheat Crunchies (28p) and Ready Brek (£1.81). He submitted a bill for £85.35 bill for the "mounting, framing and inscription of photo of Chris Huhne" claiming that he purchased the picture at the borough council's request to hang in the civic centre entrance.[62][63] He collected £119 for a mahogany Corby trouser press from John Lewis but later said he would repay the cost in order "to avoid controversy". He later claimed on a live Channel 4 news programme that he needed the trouser press to "look smart" for work.[64] In June 2010, it was revealed that in the second half of 2009, a period after the expenses scandal news story became known, Huhne claimed £14,948 in expenses, including a 14p bill for stationery. The claim also included costs incurred in servicing an old boiler at his constituency home.[65]
A couple of sentences about houses and wealth appear twice, just above and just below the header "Personal interests". But for Wiki's referencing system (which is beyond me) I would simply have done a minor edit to remove the earlier occurrence, but my attempt to do this caused more problems elsewhere. (Note that refs 12 and 93 mentioned in these sentences are identical, but ref 12 claims that the material is in the "Daily Maik" (sic) but ref 93 attributes it to "Mail on Sunday".) Could somebody more competent than me please do the editing job? Thanks. Eebkent ( talk) 10:20, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
my weird edit summary was due to two people reverting the POV comment in the article at the same time <g>. Collect ( talk) 17:45, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
There are a number of things that are simply untrue:
1. Chris Rennard was never Chief Whip but was Chief Executive of the Liberal Democrats (Election Conduct)
2. The assertion that "the "Calamity Clegg" dossier had actually been created and circulated by Trimingham" is untrue. She did not create or write the dossier and did not sign off the title (Election Conduct)
3. The assertion that "it was also revealed that Huhne had exercised his right to remain silent in response to a series of police questions in May" is untrue. He answered all the questions.
Points 2 and 3 above are serious as they are damaging to the reputation (both professional and personal) of the two people mentioned. These "facts" are based on unreliable newspaper articles whose journalists cannot possible know the truth because they weren't there.
B Accurate ( talk) 11:02, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Yes, because I am close to both individuals involved. National newspapers have an editorial point of view and many are hostile to the Lib Dems and Huhne. Also, they weren't present in the Huhne leadership campaign HQ (I was) and not present in the police station. In both cases these newspapers rely on second-hand gossip and innuendo. B Accurate ( talk) 11:23, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Lord Steel was not a leader of the Liberal Democrats. He was leader of the Liberals. He merely served as interim joint leader of what was then called the Social and Liberal Democrats while the new party formally elected its first leader. I have corrected the text accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.28.178.10 ( talk) 15:04, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
I've removed the reference to him being a "former" MP/politician as this is not strictly true until such time as he is appointed to the Manor of Northstead / Chiltern Hundreds (which he presumably will be within the next few days) as it is not possible to resign as an MP by any other means. Seems like a slightly hasty edit on someone's part; obviously this edit will need making at some point soon but I thought his page ought to be as accurate as possible at any moment in time. Pbrione ( talk) 16:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:14, 23 November 2016 (UTC)