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Anyone who follows Track cycling will know it is very much a British Team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank800 ( talk • contribs) 11:18, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Please do not delete GB from the infobox, Hoy represents both Scotland and Great Britain, many people argue to have one or the other, having both is the best compromise.
Thaf (
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12:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
If Adlington has represented England in the Commonwealth Games, she should have English as well as British in the infobox, because then she would have represented both national entities in a major competition. Users 86.165.239.45 and Dalekmikey should assume good faith as to why Hoy has Scottish in his infobox. Hoy has won gold medals for Scotland in the Commonwealth Games as well as his successes for Great Britain in the Olympics and cycling-specific events. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 05:20, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
There is still no good reason for Hoy to be continued to be listed as solely Scottish and not British. This is not to say I don't love Scotland and Scottish people, but do you ever see an American athlete having their nationality listed as a 'Texan' and not American for instance? Yes, Scotland competes as a separate team in the Commonwealth games, as do the rest of the UK. I'm sure that American (or any country for that matter) teams also compete in sporting competitions as smaller states. Does this happen at the Olympics though? No, because at the Olympics only the true sovereign nations are represented. By true I mean countries that you can actually get a passport for (sorry if anyone didn't know but you cannot get a Scottish/Welsh/English/Northern Irish passport). With this line of thinking all the articles of Team GB athletes from Cornwall should be changed from British to Cornish, as some residents also claim it is a country in it's own right. I agree with the previous poster that the thinking behind this decision was not taken from a neutral perspective. ( 82.44.72.174 ( talk) 00:29, 9 August 2012 (UTC))
I wondered how long it would take for some of the wikidiots to desecrate this article. Hoy has stated many times he's a proud Scot AND Brit- this is a fact and is a view supported by many in our nation. As per usual I feel the unsilent minority has spoken again on a wikipedia article. It's so childish, what's wrong with being proud of being British Scottish or British Welsh et al? Grow up and edit the article with facts not opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.110.42 ( talk) 11:09, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
The article has been temporarily protected against new and unregistered users, due to the amount of recent IP vandalism. Please remember that any allegations about living people must be supported by citations from reliable sources. Blocks can and will be issued against editors ignoring the Living persons bio rules. This restriction applies to talk pages, also. Thanks Kbthompson ( talk) 19:24, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
No he doesn't he lives in Salford, Greater Manchester. http://www.salfordadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/1063648_hoy_and_mighty
Its Jason Queally who lives in Chorley http://www.chorley-guardian.co.uk/sport/Jason-40Queally41-and-the-aeronauts.3724299.jp—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.44.37 ( talk) 22:32, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I wonder if he really does eat them for breakfast every day - they are 22% sugar. I'm sceptical. Edwardx ( talk) 19:56, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Ive noticed United Kingdom being removed several times and reverted, i actually agree with the removal he was born in the country of Scotland. Yes Scotland is part of the United Kingdom but stating that in the infobox seems rather unnecessary. Just wondering if there is any precedent or reason why this would be the case, i thought maybe because he represents team GB but thats covered in the article and other Scottish athletes Andy Murray, Katherine Grainger and other don't. Blethering Scot 22:52, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
No objection, really. As he identifies with both, and competes for both, and as we have agreed they are not mutually exclusive of each other - then it's fine. Nothing POV about it, as it comes from Hoy's own mouth and from the fact he competes for both nations. As no one is representing their own personal feelings on this matter and using fact...-- Τασουλα ( talk) 21:24, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
The broad community consensus is that Scottish/NIrish/Welsh/English are also nationalities, but not in the sense of nationality granted by Citizenship. The personal preference should be respected on BLPs, thus calling Hoy both Scottish and British, or one or the other, is both perfectly factual, unbias and accurate, and completely complying with MOS. -- Τασουλα ( talk) 19:02, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Saying "Scottish and British" is just tautological. If he's Scottish, he's British as well by definition and default. 2 lines of K 303 20:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Personally I think the article was fine the way it was about a month ago > "Is a Scottish track cyclist representing Great Britain and Scotland..." (First Link to "Scottish People" as that's more specific, and identifies him with what Cultural region of Britain he is from - which is just an Island in this case - we then simply link the other two to the respective teams...) The first thing to analyse here is 1) Is Scottish misleading? No, clearly not. 2) Is it undue weight considering he mostly represents Great Britain? No again I feel, as by default Scots are British nationals 3) The lead is supposed to represent the entire article in a nut-shell almost. I think this clearly does. Identifies what part of Britain he is from and then mentions his very important British Sporting nationality. And I can remove British any time I want because of WP:BRD as the anon added it without reason or talk-page consulting. But I wont - because discussing something is a lot more productive. Rant over. Any typo's blame on being 3AM in the morning, OK? ( edit conflict) reply to the above, that's something we shouldn't even consider. His personal identity being discussed in detail is undue weight. One quote doesn't mean we need to go into tautologies. This isn't the Andy Murray article. Describing him as Scottish does NOT mean he isn't British as well, so calling him Scottish and then reading too much into it wont do. -- Τασουλα ( talk) 02:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
I have edited the first paragraph so as to better reflect Hoy's nationality. I considered the paragraph as it stood unsatisfactory for the following reasons:
Scotland is not an independent country. That, of course, may change in the future. But unless and until it does, the country to which Hoy belongs is the United Kingdom; and the appropriate adjective for an individual belonging to that country, whether they be from England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, is 'British'. Thus, I suggest that to simply describe Hoy as Scottish is misleading and non-neutral.
In the source given, Hoy describes himself both as Scottish and British. I would think it inappropriate for Wikipedia to label him in those terms. Not only is this tautological, but nationality is a matter of fact, determined (in general) by place of birth, not personal views. That said, the fact that Hoy feels this way is notable in itself.
Thus, I have changed the paragraph to describe Hoy as British while including a sentence describing how Hoy views himself. This I feel more accurately reflects the objective facts whilst giving appropriate weight to Hoy's views. 2.29.154.152 ( talk) 21:34, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Anyone who follows Track cycling will know it is very much a British Team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank800 ( talk • contribs) 11:18, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Please do not delete GB from the infobox, Hoy represents both Scotland and Great Britain, many people argue to have one or the other, having both is the best compromise.
Thaf (
talk)
12:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
If Adlington has represented England in the Commonwealth Games, she should have English as well as British in the infobox, because then she would have represented both national entities in a major competition. Users 86.165.239.45 and Dalekmikey should assume good faith as to why Hoy has Scottish in his infobox. Hoy has won gold medals for Scotland in the Commonwealth Games as well as his successes for Great Britain in the Olympics and cycling-specific events. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 05:20, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
There is still no good reason for Hoy to be continued to be listed as solely Scottish and not British. This is not to say I don't love Scotland and Scottish people, but do you ever see an American athlete having their nationality listed as a 'Texan' and not American for instance? Yes, Scotland competes as a separate team in the Commonwealth games, as do the rest of the UK. I'm sure that American (or any country for that matter) teams also compete in sporting competitions as smaller states. Does this happen at the Olympics though? No, because at the Olympics only the true sovereign nations are represented. By true I mean countries that you can actually get a passport for (sorry if anyone didn't know but you cannot get a Scottish/Welsh/English/Northern Irish passport). With this line of thinking all the articles of Team GB athletes from Cornwall should be changed from British to Cornish, as some residents also claim it is a country in it's own right. I agree with the previous poster that the thinking behind this decision was not taken from a neutral perspective. ( 82.44.72.174 ( talk) 00:29, 9 August 2012 (UTC))
I wondered how long it would take for some of the wikidiots to desecrate this article. Hoy has stated many times he's a proud Scot AND Brit- this is a fact and is a view supported by many in our nation. As per usual I feel the unsilent minority has spoken again on a wikipedia article. It's so childish, what's wrong with being proud of being British Scottish or British Welsh et al? Grow up and edit the article with facts not opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.110.42 ( talk) 11:09, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
The article has been temporarily protected against new and unregistered users, due to the amount of recent IP vandalism. Please remember that any allegations about living people must be supported by citations from reliable sources. Blocks can and will be issued against editors ignoring the Living persons bio rules. This restriction applies to talk pages, also. Thanks Kbthompson ( talk) 19:24, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
No he doesn't he lives in Salford, Greater Manchester. http://www.salfordadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/1063648_hoy_and_mighty
Its Jason Queally who lives in Chorley http://www.chorley-guardian.co.uk/sport/Jason-40Queally41-and-the-aeronauts.3724299.jp—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.44.37 ( talk) 22:32, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I wonder if he really does eat them for breakfast every day - they are 22% sugar. I'm sceptical. Edwardx ( talk) 19:56, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Ive noticed United Kingdom being removed several times and reverted, i actually agree with the removal he was born in the country of Scotland. Yes Scotland is part of the United Kingdom but stating that in the infobox seems rather unnecessary. Just wondering if there is any precedent or reason why this would be the case, i thought maybe because he represents team GB but thats covered in the article and other Scottish athletes Andy Murray, Katherine Grainger and other don't. Blethering Scot 22:52, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
No objection, really. As he identifies with both, and competes for both, and as we have agreed they are not mutually exclusive of each other - then it's fine. Nothing POV about it, as it comes from Hoy's own mouth and from the fact he competes for both nations. As no one is representing their own personal feelings on this matter and using fact...-- Τασουλα ( talk) 21:24, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
The broad community consensus is that Scottish/NIrish/Welsh/English are also nationalities, but not in the sense of nationality granted by Citizenship. The personal preference should be respected on BLPs, thus calling Hoy both Scottish and British, or one or the other, is both perfectly factual, unbias and accurate, and completely complying with MOS. -- Τασουλα ( talk) 19:02, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Saying "Scottish and British" is just tautological. If he's Scottish, he's British as well by definition and default. 2 lines of K 303 20:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Personally I think the article was fine the way it was about a month ago > "Is a Scottish track cyclist representing Great Britain and Scotland..." (First Link to "Scottish People" as that's more specific, and identifies him with what Cultural region of Britain he is from - which is just an Island in this case - we then simply link the other two to the respective teams...) The first thing to analyse here is 1) Is Scottish misleading? No, clearly not. 2) Is it undue weight considering he mostly represents Great Britain? No again I feel, as by default Scots are British nationals 3) The lead is supposed to represent the entire article in a nut-shell almost. I think this clearly does. Identifies what part of Britain he is from and then mentions his very important British Sporting nationality. And I can remove British any time I want because of WP:BRD as the anon added it without reason or talk-page consulting. But I wont - because discussing something is a lot more productive. Rant over. Any typo's blame on being 3AM in the morning, OK? ( edit conflict) reply to the above, that's something we shouldn't even consider. His personal identity being discussed in detail is undue weight. One quote doesn't mean we need to go into tautologies. This isn't the Andy Murray article. Describing him as Scottish does NOT mean he isn't British as well, so calling him Scottish and then reading too much into it wont do. -- Τασουλα ( talk) 02:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
I have edited the first paragraph so as to better reflect Hoy's nationality. I considered the paragraph as it stood unsatisfactory for the following reasons:
Scotland is not an independent country. That, of course, may change in the future. But unless and until it does, the country to which Hoy belongs is the United Kingdom; and the appropriate adjective for an individual belonging to that country, whether they be from England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, is 'British'. Thus, I suggest that to simply describe Hoy as Scottish is misleading and non-neutral.
In the source given, Hoy describes himself both as Scottish and British. I would think it inappropriate for Wikipedia to label him in those terms. Not only is this tautological, but nationality is a matter of fact, determined (in general) by place of birth, not personal views. That said, the fact that Hoy feels this way is notable in itself.
Thus, I have changed the paragraph to describe Hoy as British while including a sentence describing how Hoy views himself. This I feel more accurately reflects the objective facts whilst giving appropriate weight to Hoy's views. 2.29.154.152 ( talk) 21:34, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
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